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Tetris Creator Claims FOSS Destroys the Market

alx5000 writes "In an interview conducted last week with Consumer Eroski (link in Spanish; Google translation), the father of Tetris Alexey Pajitnov claimed that 'Free Software should have never existed,' since it 'destroys the market' by bringing down companies that create wealth and prosperity. When asked about Red Hat or Oracle's support-oriented model, he called them 'a minority,' and also criticized Stallman's ideas as 'belonging to the past' where there were no software 'business possibilities.'"

24 of 686 comments (clear)

  1. News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by spun · · Score: 5, Funny

    Details at eleven.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by jbeaupre · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Oddly, I see FOSS as an extreme example of capitalism. Reductio ad absurdum with a twist.

      In a given market with profits, more competitors will enter until profits are driven down to the point the cost of entering just isn't worth it. With software, this set point is a bit lower than many industries, because less capital is needed for production. FOSS lowers it further by reducing the barriers to entry (you get to reuse older code). Some people derive a non-financial benefit (and sometimes financial) that exceeds the cost of contributing, so there is a negative cost (a benefit). It's still worth it to them to enter the market no matter what. So even assuming no profit, you get plenty of competitors.

      The capitalist version of superconductivity. Against the rules except in unique circumstances.

      What this guy misses are controlled markets with barriers to entry.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    2. Re:News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by frission · · Score: 5, Funny

      >> Reductio ad absurdum with a twist.

      Don't come at us with your Harry Potter speak...

    3. Re:News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In my experience, code being free is not enough to make it reusable.

      The original author of the code has to *actively want* his code to be reused, design it modularly for reuse, and provide useful documentation to other programmers on how it can be reused. Anything else is a just an enormous hunk of code that substitutes cost in money with cost in time.

      --
      Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
    4. Re:News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Money is what you use when you have scarcity instead of wealth, and you're trying to figure out who should get the short supply.

      Artificial scarcity, which includes all intellectual property law, is about destroying wealth so you can force people to work like slaves and fight over the scraps.

      It's reminiscent of the wealth burning parties of primitives, intended to prevent the accumulation of wealth so the people would have to keep making more in the service of the tribal leaders.

      Basically, Alexey Pazhitnov Leonidovich doesn't value wealth, he values leverage over his fellow man, which he can only have if people are systematically kept in a state of deprivation.

      It blows my mind how many people defend a system that keeps them impoverished, not because they don't understand what it's doing to them and their fellows, but because they think they're going to be the man on the top one of these days and they want to be the beneficiary of all those systematic imbalances.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    5. Re:News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Income is wealth (as much as anything else can be called wealth anyway).

      No. An automobile is wealth. An airplane is wealth. A book is wealth. Income is just an IOU based on your contribution to creating wealth.

      "Creating wealth" is all about producing things of value. "Free" software is wealth if it has value. The fact that people use it demonstrates nicely that it has value. The fact that it costs nothing to use is irrelevant to its "value".

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by damburger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      FOSS is not capitalism, or communism. Both are economic systems based on scarcity and information by its nature is not scarce. That is the point of FOSS - we don't need to apply the old models of how to divide up resources to knowledge.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    7. Re:News Flash: bitter ex communist hates communism by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Income is wealth
      Only if electrical current is charge. Wealth is measured in dollars or pounds, income in dollars or pounds per time period.
      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  2. What do you expect... by rvw · · Score: 5, Interesting

    from a Microsoft employee?

    1. Re:What do you expect... by The+Ancients · · Score: 5, Funny

      from a Microsoft employee?

      Chair throwing, and dancing like a monkey. You?

  3. Before everyone jumps on him by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is a guy who got screwed out of a lot of money because the state took his hard work without giving him a dime. I am not surprised that he finds the idea of people giving away their hard work for no money to be repulsive (even if it's voluntary).

    Of course the irony is that he is from a country where piracy is (and has been) running crazy rampant.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Before everyone jumps on him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Having unique life experiences and thus unique perspective is great... but is in no way an excuse for having a skewed world-view.

      His assertion that Free software doesn't contribute economically is way off base. The university culture of spreading information and freeing knowledge is not a bygone rebellious idea: it is sound principle that is gaining more and more traction as people become more interconnected. Rather than stifling business opportunities, this free distribution of knowledge has been a core enabler of technological and economic progress in the western world.

      Besides, the core ethos of Free software is about user choice and promulgation of ideas. It is the antithesis of the central-control that co-opted his hard work for its own gain.

  4. It's called "Creative Destruction" by roystgnr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When another producer in your market has the ability to indefinitely create products whose quality and cost make them preferable to anything you can create, that is supposed to destroy the market for your products. It's a form of "creative destruction", a process in which going out of business is just the final signal to the terminally clueless that yes, it really is time for you to find a job you're better at.

    In this case, if you can't make a better product than something that is already available to the whole world for free, you're not doing anything productive. Either make better software, or quit whining that people won't pay you for what you do make.

  5. How is being a minority relevant? by Jugalator · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When asked about Red Hat or Oracle's support-oriented model, he called them 'a minority Yes, so..? Is that supposed to be a "problem" here?

    Obviously, Red Hat's and Oracle's (and a number of others not mentioned) business models works, otherwise they would have been abandoned in favor of the more traditional ones. And whether they work is what matters here, not how many have or haven't dared trying something new!
    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  6. Re:bringing down companies that create wealth by rev_sanchez · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tetris was originally designed as a training tool for late Soviet-era transport interests. The idea was to reduce shipping costs by training load masters to improve the density of packing freight cars, container ships, and trucks.

    This is all covered in my book, Shit I Made Up About The Russian Software Industry.

    --
    If you didn't come to party don't bother knocking on my door. Prince '1999'
  7. Wrong model by Alain+Williams · · Score: 5, Insightful
    He is starting from the wrong position. He seems to think that software has to be written by companies for sale to customers. He thinks that increasing profit comes from making lots more sales.

    Wrong. Increasing profit can also come from reduction in costs.

    90% of software is written within organisations and never sees light of day outside of the organisations that create it. This is in spite of many organisations sharing some common problems/needs, even if much is specific/unique to them. Most of these organisations are not in the business of selling programs, they run factories, trains, banks, ...

    What Open Source does is to liberate a little of this 90%, the bits which other organisations might find useful and can easily adopt into their IT systems. The companies that release it get: feedback, bug fixes and enhacements. The guys who receive/use the software send their patches back because doing so is less (long term) work than putting the patches into each new release that comes out.

    This is how Open Source works. It does not depend on software houses to sell to users, the profit does not come from software sales, it comes from cost reduction by those who use the software.

    Yes, there are those who make a living from support, from the big guys like Red Hat to the small ones like myself; but the greatest profit from Open Source is the cost reduction in the users.

  8. Re:Everybody's got a right to be wrong. by arotenbe · · Score: 5, Funny

    Free air is destroying the market for oxygen bars! I am a representative from the AIAA (Air Industry Association of America). As a firm believer in the rights of plants and blue-green algae to earn money through their photosynthesis, I find it irresponsible and criminal that animals across the world use oxygen without paying the creators royalties. Therefore, I have decided that I am going to sue everyone on Earth. Not just humans, mind you. All of you bears and tigers and piranhas will have to pony up too! Gwahahaha! GWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA AAAGGHHHAGHH GET IT OFF ME GET IT OFF ME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
    --
    Tomato wedge sperm darts that are Republican.
  9. Re:Actually he's half right by aesiamun · · Score: 5, Funny

    You use Steve Jobs as the extreme for closed source software?

    Are you sure you can't think of someone more...qualified?

  10. Re:I just don't understand... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually I can answer it simply: it makes my job as a programmer easier. I'm one of the vast majority of programmers who do not work for a company writing software for others. I write software for internal use at my company. We aren't going to sell it. We aren't going to give it away. It's never going to leave the confines of the company. And F/OSS gives me easy options. I need an HTTP library? Grab Curl. I need a SOAP library? Grab gSOAP. SSL? Grab OpenSSL. Printing? CUPS. XML/XSLT parsing/processing? Xerces and Xalan. And having gotten that utility software out of the way, I can proceed on to the business-specific stuff that my company really wants me to be working on.

    Yes, we could buy commercial libraries for all those things. But those commercial libraries come with hefty costs for things we aren't going to use, have license restrictions attached like how many copies we can have installed that have to be managed, and have very poor support when it comes to bug-fixes and support for exotic hardware/OS platforms. F/OSS simply gives us far fewer headaches and costs us fewer dollars to use. When we need it somewhere, we just install another copy and we're good to go. All we have to watch out for is redistribution of our software outside the company, and that's easy since it's not supposed to happen.

    Yes, F/OSS is very bad for programmers who make their living selling software commercially to others to use. But that's like saying that the advent of the automobile was very bad for the people who made horse-drawn wagons, carriages and such, and the people who bred and sold horses to pull them: it pretty much meant the end of most of their business. But those people were a small minority compared to the number of people who merely used wagons and carriages, and now trucks and automobiles, to move cargo and people around.

  11. Re:Obligatory, sorry. by rrkap · · Score: 5, Funny

    This joke is never obligatory! Will you people finally let it go?

    I for one welcome our humorless overlords.

    Farewell sweet, sweet karma

    --
    I like my beverages with warning labels!
  12. Re:bringing down companies that create wealth by TemporalBeing · · Score: 5, Informative

    Tetris was originally designed as a training tool for late Soviet-era transport interests. The idea was to reduce shipping costs by training load masters to improve the density of packing freight cars, container ships, and trucks.

    This is all covered in my book, Shit I Made Up About The Russian Software Industry. Obviously you didn't see the BBC documentary on Tetris (it's available on YouTube - can't provide a link right now). Alex created it as a variant of a popular board game with a couple extra twists according to the documentary. It then started selling, and only later did the USSR find out about it - after it had already swept through the USSR and other countries wanted to buy it. The USSR's software group ended up sole-sourcing the market to Nintendo through some interesting twists, which through Atari for a spin as they had already pumped a lot of money into their own version of Tetris since they thought they had licensed it for the PC. Quite a good documentary.
    --
    Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  13. Re:bringing down companies that create wealth by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Funny

    The idea was to reduce shipping costs by training load masters to improve the density of packing freight cars, container ships, and trucks.

    I'd figure the easiest way to do that would be to get rid of all the L-, T- and S-shaped shipping containers.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  14. Re:bringing down companies that create wealth by JazzLad · · Score: 5, Funny

    it's available on YouTube - can't provide a link right now Why? In Pakistan?
    --
    "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
  15. ASCII graphics FT...W? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 5, Funny
    He's right. Take a look at this screenshot of FOSS about to destroy The Market:

    |F.........|
    |O.........|
    |S.........|
    |S.........|
    |..........|
    |.TheMarket|
    |.TheMarket|
    |.TheMarket|
    |.TheMarket|
    ------------