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If IP Is Property, Where Is the Property Tax?

nweaver writes "In a response to the LA Times editorial on copyright which we discussed a week ago, the paper published a response arguing: 'If Intellectual Property is actually property, why isn't it covered by a property tax?' If copyright maintenance involved paying a fee and registration, this would keep Mickey Mouse safely protected by copyright, while ensuring that works that are no longer economically relevant to the copyright holder pass into the public domain, where the residual social value can serve the real purpose of copyright: to enhance the progress of science and useful arts. Disclaimer: the author is my father."

10 of 691 comments (clear)

  1. Wow... by milsoRgen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    On the face of it, I love that idea. The bigger question would be how do you determine the value of the IP to assess it for taxation.

    --
    I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
    1. Re:Wow... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "The bigger question would be how do you determine the value of the IP to assess it for taxation."

      I agree, assessing intellectual property values would be a huge PIA.

      On the other hand, a simple, flat, renewal fee would have the same effect. Or perhaps a sliding scale, so that the longer you hold a copyright the more expensive it becomes. Copyrights that weren't producing revenues would be released, and Disney could keep Mickey forever. Might not generate the billions in tax revenues that the author envisions, but it would get more works in to the public domain.

      --
      Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    2. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I would imagine it goes like this: You have some IP you want protected. You file for something to protect it (new something, copyright, whatever). You claim a value. You make up the value - whatever you want to say it is. You are then taxed on that value. The only caveat is that if someone wants it from you they can buy the whole damn thing from you for the price you claimed it was worth - UNLESS you immediately raise the value and pay a penalty for undervaluing it.

    3. Re:Wow... by milsoRgen · · Score: 5, Interesting

      How about every 10 years said item would go up to the auction block, if a competitor out bids you. They can claim the IP, if no one wants to compete the original value must be paid otherwise IP goes into public domain. And for IP that drastically changes in value in a short time, a petition could be filed that if properly cause is shown an auction could be triggered early.

      Or something, really I'm thinking any alternative more sensible than the life+70 would be good.

      --
      I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
    4. Re:Wow... by Xanius · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because as everyone knows, no two people could ever possibly have the same idea independently....

      I think it would be valued at whatever damages you want to claim when you sue someone over it. That'll keep the number of ridiculous damage claims down.

    5. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Perfect.

      How about $0.01 for the first year, and it doubles every year after that?

      So, keeping a copyright for 10 years costs only $10.24, but keeping it for 16 years is $655.36, 20 years is $10485.76

      After 32 years, it's $42,949,672.96

      After 64 years, it's $184,467,440,737,095,516.16!!!

      Even the poorest small guy can afford to keep his Copyright for 10 years, but nobody will have the money to keep creative works out of the public hands for 50+ years.

      Again, this seems like the perfect system.

    6. Re:Wow... by srmalloy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, no -- they don't need to file anything. Audit them. If the RIAA/MPAA is accurate about the value of the 'loss' from each individual instance of unauthorized copying, then they are, by their own admission, guilty of having failed to declare the true value of their assets as capital gains. It could wipe out the National Debt if the IRS could collect on all the back taxes...

  2. Valuating for Property Tax Purposes by qbzzt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think Heinlein had the solution to that (he used it for real property). You declare a value, you pay taxes based on that, and anybody can force you to sell it to them at that price.

    --
    -- Support a free market in the field of government
  3. Re:Majority of Artists by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 5, Interesting

    First, this is not true. Most artists never become successful at all. Further, when a work does turn out to have copyright-related economic value, it is almost invariably 'front-loaded.' That is, you can exploit the work for the most money immediately upon publication in some medium, with the value steadily and rapidly decreasing thereafter. E.g. a movie sells the most tickets on opening weekend, and fewer every week after until finally it is so unprofitable that it leaves the theaters. When it comes out on video, it sells the most copies the first week, and again, fewer every week after that. The time horizon is usually measured in months per medium of publication. A movie might have a month, a book might have as long as a year. A newspaper, only a few hours (people don't often buy morning editions at night on the same day, much less later on), certain kinds of textbooks, perhaps several years. Creating a work that has lasting economic value is about as rare as winning the lottery. It is just stupid to design our policies around that sort of thing, it's so rare.

    Second, why should we care about the little guy -- or any author, of whatever size -- at all? Copyright is meant to serve the public interest, period. This means encouraging authors to create works the otherwise wouldn't've created, and getting those works into the public domain as soon as possible (with as little protection as possible prior to that). So long as the author creates works, it is utterly immaterial whether or not he makes money at it. Nor is it a bad thing for a work to enter the public domain and for other authors, regardless of whether they're big or small, to make some use of it. All that matters is getting the most number of works created for the least amount of cost in the form of copyright protection granted (i.e. what copyrights are granted initially, how broad the grants are, and how long the grants last). Entertaining silly, romantic notions of authors is what has gotten us into the mess we now find ourselves in. We need to stop with that crap. Copyright is utilitarian; whatever copyright system best serves the public, that's what we need, without one iota of concern for authors, save for how their condition might affect the public good that is our real sole issue. The most works for the least copyright 'buck.' It's as simple as that.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  4. No need for a valuation: tax seems a good idea btw by waterbear · · Score: 5, Interesting

    (Well, there's already been a flood of posts on this one, but anyways .... )

    [1] FWIW I think the idea of a copyright tax is a good one, for the sake of making commerically unimportant copyrights available.

    [2] The tax doesn't have to be a big one to be effective, and any realistic tax would have to be on a uniform basis and a reasonable level to be administratively workable. Patent renewal fees already exist and are like that, and they do result in many patents being abandoned to the public domain before their term is up.

    [3] An additional advantage of a copyright tax would be that in the case of items that might look like 'abandonware' but are not, the tax register would help people's efforts to find the person claiming the copyright, if they want to fix up any kind of proper licensing permission.

    [4] A big difficulty in the way of implementation, is that copyright law conditions are now set by international treaty, the Berne Convention. This says that copyright has to be available without formality. So it isn't any longer up to Congress just to alter the law, unless they also want to leave (denounce) the Berne Convention (this would result in lack of mutuality of copyright protection between the US and just about every other country, an inconvenience and cause of loss and expense to copyright holders that caused the US to join the Convention in the first place.)

    So, international negotiations would be needed to insert some kind of 'sunset' clause into the Berne Convention. Or else, the tax could perhaps be brought in for some other effect, short of ending the copyright, like maybe avoiding a presumption of licensing-as-of-right: this could be legislatively created for untaxed copyright works. (But I'm not sure that even that would be compatible with the existing Berne Convention anyway.)

    [5] So, all in all, the idea sounds good, but is probably impractical until the international climate (in which the US govt currently has a big influence) moves away from the tendency to tighten IP nooses, and starts loosening up.

    -wb-