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Why Is Less Than 99.9% Uptime Acceptable?

Ian Lamont writes "Telcos, ISPs, mobile phone companies and other communication service providers are known for their complex pricing plans and creative attempts to give less for more. But Larry Borsato asks why we as customers are willing to put up with anything less than 99.999% uptime? That's the gold standard, and one that we are used to thanks to regulated telephone service. When it comes to mobile phone service, cable TV, Internet access, service interruptions are the norm — and everyone seems willing to grin and bear it: 'We're so used cable and satellite television reception problems that we don't even notice them anymore. We know that many of our emails never reach their destination. Mobile phone companies compare who has the fewest dropped calls (after decades of mobile phones, why do we even still have dropped calls?) And the ubiquitous BlackBerry, which is a mission-critical device for millions, has experienced mass outages several times this month. All of these services are unregulated, which means there are no demands on reliability, other than what the marketplace demands.' So here's the question for you: Why does the marketplace demand so little when it comes to these services?"

20 of 528 comments (clear)

  1. because they've been conditioned by yagu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why does the marketplace demand so little when it comes to these services?

    The marketplace has been duped into believing that this is the best technology can provide. People don't have time to know, understand, or research history and find that technology really can be reliable.

    I'll get modded troll, but I lay much of this at Microsoft's feet. I laughed them off when I first heard of them and their goal of taking over the industry. After all, I'd been working on systems that ran 24x7 with five-9 reliability for years, and DOS/Windows couldn't touch that.

    One time I had an opportunity to visit Microsoft and have lunch with a friend there. I figured while there I'd take the opportunity. I asked them in hushed tones, "Just how do you configure Windows so that you don't have to reboot it all of the time?" They looked at me like I was crazy.

    Technology can provide reliability. The general public is no longer even aware that it's possible.

    1. Re:because they've been conditioned by The+Ancients · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The reasons why Microsoft were so successful (in a business sense) are manifold, but one is not that their products were great, but that they were good enough. They accurately measured what people would put up with at different price points, and serviced the market accordingly. I think ISPs, telcos, etc have done likewise.

    2. Re:because they've been conditioned by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'll get modded troll, but I lay much of this at Microsoft's feet.

      Truly, your courage is an inspiration to us all!

      In fact, though, I can tell you that in the pre-Windows days, electricity had outages, television had outages, telephone service had outages, gas service had outages... For the same reason we have them today -- people aren't willing to accept the economic and aesthetic costs of providing those services at the level of reliability you and the author are demanding.

      Incidentally, is it most people's experience that "We're so used [sic] cable and satellite television reception problems that we don't even notice them anymore"? There were some glitches in a broadcast of Zoolander on TBS last weekend, which I'll admit is cause for complaint. (Especially since one wiped out "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!") But on the whole, I can't say I've seen substantial problems when there wasn't a blizzard or hurricane, and if I'm forced to to stop watching TV for an hour or two, it's not the end of the world.

    3. Re:because they've been conditioned by Vellmont · · Score: 5, Insightful


      One time I had an opportunity to visit Microsoft and have lunch with a friend there. I figured while there I'd take the opportunity. I asked them in hushed tones, "Just how do you configure Windows so that you don't have to reboot it all of the time?" They looked at me like I was crazy.

      In a certain sense.. you were crazy, at least at Microsoft.

      The origins of an OS really show through a lot of the time. Windows started out as a single user OS, so rebooting was OK because the only person you messed up was the guy sitting in front of the screen. It eventually evolved into a multi-user OS, but the "just reboot!" mentality persists to this day.

      Linux/Unix on the other hand started out life as a multi-user OS. Rebooting was a big no-no, because you'd affect countless people logged in, and you'd get yelled at for ruining someones work.

      It's funny the attitude that comes from the users of each OS. Windows administrators categorically will try rebooting the damn thing first to fix any problem (and it usually works). Linux administrators will only try this as a last resort (and it almost never works).

      Anyway, at Microsoft the idea that you can somehow tweak windows just right so rebooting isn't necessary is crazy. They designed the damn thing so "just reboot!" will fix any problem. This of course is an unacceptable solution to a lot of people out their, but for a lot of people it's obviously reality.

      --
      AccountKiller
    4. Re:because they've been conditioned by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Conditioning certainly has to be a big part of it. People put up with crappy wireless phone service because that they don't remember (or are too young to know) what an old-fashioned fully-wired telephone conversation sounds like. After a couple decades of cordless and wireless phones, the level of service has gone from "you can hear a pin drop" to "can you hear me now?"

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    5. Re:because they've been conditioned by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The server is up 99.99% of the time. The server's T1 is up 99.99% of the time. T1's ISP is up 99.99% of the time. The backbone provider is up 99.99% of the time. The cellular ISP is up 99.99% of the time. The cell-to-tower linkage is up 99.99% of the time...

      Eventually, with all of these little points of failure, you're going to get a good sized chunk of fail. Add in things like the inherent instability of wireless technologies and our nation-wide problem with an aging electrical infrastructure, and you have the sorts of occasionally mildly-inconviencing issues that you see today.

      Right now it seems like the things users want to optimize most for are A: speed and B: cost. One day every other month where our home internet is down doesn't seem like the end of the world, especially with the cost of the alternative.

    6. Re:because they've been conditioned by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is simply not true.

      Yes, it is. People who use Windows, when using Linux, are going to respond exactly the same way to problems - by rebooting.

      Anyone that's ever installed software, or run "windows update" knows that rebooting is a very likely part of this process. The dependencies and non-modular approach of Windows are quite apparent. Software vendors say "just reboot" because of all the complexities and dependencies within windows.

      No, they do it because it's a simple step for the ignorant end user to understand.

      The same simply isn't true for Linux. Replace a critical shared library? No problem, running programs still have a hook to the old version. Any new process that starts will get the new version of the library. Why reload the whole damn OS when restarting a process will do the same thing?

      Because for people who don't know that, it's easier to say reboot.

      You are conflating knowledgable end users with typical end users. This is at best naive and at worst deliberately deceptive.

      You're trying to tell me with a straight face that the BBS market influenced Microsoft? (Which flies in the face of what we've all experienced with Windows).

      No, I'm telling you that a random individual's attitude towards rebooting is going to be vastly more influenced by their skill level ad what they're using their computer for than the OS it runs.

      No, the reason people have this attitude is because it freaking works.

      Exactly. Now, again, why do you think they're going to treat computers any differently ?

      I've been administrating Linux machines for 13+ years. I can count on one hand the number of times a reboot solved any problem. The only class of problem this solved is a kernel bug, or the kernel crashing (usually from a hardware problem).

      Not done much work with NFS then, I take it ? Or services that have long timeout periods and don't die nicely ?

      I struggle to believe anyone has been using Linux for "13+ years" and can only "count on one hand the number of times a reboot solved any problem". Either you've not used Linux anything close to "13+ years" or you've not used it in a very wide range of situations.

      Why would anyone reboot without a "good reason"?

      The fact that you even need to ask disqualifies you from any useful input to this discussion. Fucking hell. People hit the rest button on their PCs because the monitor power-saving kicked in and for dozens of other reasons that aren't even that good.

      The point is that Linux simply has less "good reasons", and requires less reboots. Linux requires FAR less reboots for "patching".

      Linux also makes a lot more assumptions about its users (and "users" in this sense reaches from Grandma to software developers).

      Wow. Now I know you've really drank the Microsoft kool-aid. Not everyone can afford multiple machine redundancy just to fix the endemic problems of Microsoft who advocate "Just reboot!" to fix so many problems. There's really no reason why I need to reboot just to update what's essentially some new versions of DLLs. The Microsoft architecture is essentially broken if you have to buy another damn machine for the SOLE purpose of maintaining high availability.

      Yeah, like I thought. "13+ years" and 12 of those were probably using it on your home PC.

      The only meaningful difference between a "reboot" and a hardware failure is the amount of warning. I'll say it again. If your business continuity is vulnerable to individual machine outages (be they from reboots or motherboards going up in smoke), then it's broken. Period. If you can't afford "multiple machine redundancy" then you don't need 24/7 uptime. If you don't need 24/7 uptime, then either scheduled machine reboots (eg: for patching) are irrelevant, or brief outages are acceptable.

      Any sysadmin who thinks he can run a high-availability operation without multiple machine redundancy is incompetent. Any sysadmin who is purporting to do so, is grossly negligent. The fact that there's a hell of a lot of people whose Linux (and UNIX in general) bias puts them into these categories, does not make them any less incompetent or negligent.

    7. Re:because they've been conditioned by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's three weeks of hard core debugging, tweaking, and hair pulling.

      The fact that you were able to wait *three weeks* demonstrates that the problem was, at most, insignificant.

      When thousands of dollars (or more) are being lost every minute that a service is unavailable[0], you don't fuck around with idiotic philosophising about how "its UNIX, I shouldn't need to reboot for anything"[1], you just DO IT.

      [0] We shall ignore here for a minute the false economy of not just investing in a properly redundant architecture where individual machine outages do not impact availability.

      [1] I've been there myself and had arguments with my (at the time) boss about it. It is the difference between how geeks think and how businesspeople think. The geek is interested in figuring out wtf is wrong. The businessman is interested in whether or not his business is still operating.

    8. Re:because they've been conditioned by rmerry72 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reasons why Microsoft were so successful (in a business sense) are manifold, but one is not that their products were great, but that they were good enough.

      This I agree with whole-heartedly. Its a fundamental basis of a market driven economy. Spending effort on things that are too good for the market wastes resources that could be spent elsewhere on items that the market (ie. people) do want. Capitalism does not - and must not - build the best, merely the just barely good enough.

      Most people don't give a crap about quality, and if they do then somebody else should pay for it. Its all about the latest and greatest bling and appearing to be better than your neighbours.

      So everything we have in our lives - every product, service, and system - is just good enough to work for most of the people most of the time and no more. Our transport largely gets people from A to B (eventually), our health system keeps most people alive a few years longer with not much discomfort, our communications work most of the time for most people in most places, and our politicians mostly look after us OK.

      Oh, and most of us do most of our work most of the time when we have to. And no more!

      --
      We do not inherit the Earth from our parents. We borrow it from our children.
    9. Re:because they've been conditioned by Eivind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Everything you say is true, but it's actually even -worse- than that.

      It's not just that the returns are diminishing, they're -NEGATIVE-. It's not just that countries that spend 30-40% less on healthcare compared to USA have similar health and life-expectancy, several of them actually have significantly BETTER results for LESS money.

      The reason is basically what you state: Giving EXTREME healthcare to those who already have GOOD healthcare provides little if any benefit, but providing the BASICS to those who are lacking them is cheap and efficient.

      So, USA has very very high spendings for those who are "in", but fall quite deeply on the rankings because you fail to provide GOOD healthcare to everyone living in the USA. That's why you're not in the top 40 for any of the most used healthcare-indications despite being undisputed as number one in spendings.

      Norway, for example, has similar healthcare to USA, not quite as extreme on the top mainly due to less panic about courts, but still come out way ahead, because healthcare is truly universal.

      Costs less, gives more health. What is not to like ?

    10. Re:because they've been conditioned by Eivind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're asking two questions, so you get two replies.

      Why, in general terms, do we redistribute wealth forcibly ?

      The short answer is: Because we live in a democracy and the majority of politicians vote in favor of doing that.

      The longer answer is; Because living in a stable, healthy population with a safety-net has benefits, even if you're not among the direct recipients of the welfare.

      In South-Africa earning $100.000/year means living in a castle surrounded by 10-feet concrete topped with broken glass and barbed wire, surveiled by video-cameras, in a "gated community", driving your kids wherever they need to go for fear of kidnapping and *still* accepting that your odds of being killed by someone desiring your wealth are non-negligible.

      In Norway, earning $100.000/year means living wherever the hell you want, surrounded by a garden with strawberries in it, never even having the thougth "kidnapping" cross your mind in relation with your children, posessing no security-camera and indeed unless you live in a major city you'll probably not bother locking the door. Still, even without the precautions, your odds of being killed by someone desiring your wealth is, essentially zero. (more than 2 orders of magnitude lower)

      I don't know what that's worth. But it's worth -something-.

      I'm much more skeptical of all the corporate welfare, truth be told. If I could directly change what my tax-dollars are used for, my vote would be to cut drastically on subsidizes to dinosaur-industries that are uncompetitive (it's insane that *tobacco*-farmers and coalminers are the two groups receivin the most subsidies in the EU) and to *UP* support of those people who need it the most. Primarily EDUCATION -- I'm the opinion that that is the most sensible support you can give a weak group. It's the only help that can help them with time becoming independent.

  2. Here's an easy one. by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Quoting the summary:

    ... after decades of mobile phones, why do we even still have dropped calls? It's a little thing called physics. When you're traveling while using your phone, you may transit into dead zones. We could solve this by cutting down all the trees and flattening the landscape, but that might make some people angry...
  3. Low price or high-quality? by schnikies79 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can have one or the other.

    We're not talking about software, we're talking about hardware and man-hours. Those will never be free.

    --
    Gone!
  4. Not So Simple by jcnnghm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To put it simply, it's the money stupid. It requires a lot more equipment and manpower to offer a high availability service. This extra cost results in higher prices. It can cost 1000% more a month for less than 1% more reliability. Think of a $400 a month T1 with a SLA versus a $40/month cable line. Being sheep has nothing to do with it.

    --
    You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
  5. because 'misson critical' is a myth by spasm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because 90% of stuff labeled 'mission critical' actually isn't. Think about it - for most of us, being able to receive or send cellphone calls or emails at any time seems super important, but the number of hours in any given month where it really *was* super important (the grant application was due in two hours; your mother was sick; your partner was about to go into labor; whatever) is generally pretty low - our real tolerance for occasional downtime is therefore quite high.

  6. At what price? by NEOtaku17 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The marketplace has been duped into believing that this is the best technology can provide. People don't have time to know, understand, or research history and find that technology really can be reliable."

    No. They believe it is the best the technology can provide at a given price. Why do people "put up" with cars that only give them X amount of protection in a car crash even though there is technology out there that would make them safer? Because they aren't willing to pay the marginal cost for the extra protection. Arguing about what is possible with technology is pointless. What matters is what a piece of technology can do at a given price.

    Everything is a trade-off. The sooner Slashdot learns this the less we will have these stupid "Why don't consumers use the latest, greatest, most expensive technology? We need to force them somehow!" articles.

  7. You don't have to take it anymore by BanjoBob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When Comtrash Internet dropped my speed from 6 Mbps to 1 Mbps but kept the rate at 6 times DSL, I dropped Comtrash and went with the 1.5 Mbps DSL from my local telco. I got 50% more than Comtrash was delivering at 1/6th the cost. No problem.

    When Microsoft decided that I didn't own the rights to my own media and stopped me from being able to copy my own DVDs, I decided to drop them for my media development system and I switched to Linux and Apple. Microsoft doesn't want my business so I went with the people who do. No problem.

    When my Long Distance company decided to charge over $1.00 per minute for International calls, I switched to AT&T and their 17 cents a minute program. No problem.

    When Frigidaire washers charged extra for the warm water cycle but only give you 5 seconds of hot water and thus, never any, it was no problem to return the unit and buy a different brand. Sure, the salesman wasn't happy but, that is now his problem and not mine. I bought a different brand that did give me what they advertised and promised. No problem.

    The list is endless and across all businesses and domains.

    The point being is that there are alternatives but, many (or most) people are either too lazy to do anything about it or, like this article, they are too apathetic to do anything about it.

    The choice is up to the consumer and, if the consumer would take action, the industry would have to adapt because the market demands it. So far, the market is willing to accept this and thus, the industry sees no reason to change. The less the consumer will accept for their dollar the less they will receive. That, is the problem.

    --
    Banjo - The more I know about Windoze, the more I love *nix
  8. Bingo by dreamchaser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's all about cost vs. the cost of downtime. You'll find in business lines such as the financial sector, customers are willing to pay for extremely high availability because time is indeed money. Business lines that have lower costs for downtime have to weigh availability vs. ROI.

  9. O RLY? by nacturation · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When it comes to mobile phone service, cable TV, Internet access, service interruptions are the norm -- and everyone seems willing to grin and bear it: 'We're so used cable and satellite television reception problems that we don't even notice them anymore. And television is mission critical? Besides, I bet most people don't experience significant cable TV interruptions. Satellite depends on the strength of the signal. Tap into Arecibo and you'll likely get 100% reception.

    We know that many of our emails never reach their destination. [citation needed] I call bullshit on that one.

    Mobile phone companies compare who has the fewest dropped calls (after decades of mobile phones, why do we even still have dropped calls?) Because it's a benefit to have a phone that doesn't draw so much power that your brain heats up just from using the device. Also, dropping a call indicates that you're in an area where there's no cell towers or because you've hopped from one tower to the next and the next tower has its connections maxed out.

    And the ubiquitous BlackBerry, which is a mission-critical device for millions, has experienced mass outages several times this month. Blackberry is not a mission critical service. The people who use it as such are naive. If there truly is a market for five nines uptime for Blackberry, RIM would develop such a service and charge an order of magnitude more for it.

    All of these services are unregulated, which means there are no demands on reliability, other than what the marketplace demands.' So here's the question for you: Why does the marketplace demand so little when it comes to these services? Because ultimately it's really not a big deal. So your satellite TV goes down for a bit... get a life. You drop a cell phone call... redial. Your Blackberry isn't receiving emails... get a life.
    --
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  10. No way... by duffbeer703 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This has everything to do with cost and nothing to do with Microsoft. Consider VoIP... people are deliberately choosing telephony services that are less reliable and lower quality than POTS, because VoIP is cheaper. If you want 99.999% uptime, that's fine -- but you're going to pay for it. High availability services require better equipment, redundant equipment that doesn't come cheap and more, higher quality staff to operate it. So it costs more.

    I've been in the technology services business for a long time, and with few exceptions, 80%+ customers want their services are delivered as cheaply as possible. Most hospital systems don't even have a 99.999% availability requirement. The 20% the want varying levels of higher than normal availability usually have a government regulation, SLA or other mandate requiring that they do so.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK