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Woz Dumps on MacBook Air, iPhone, AppleTV

AcidAUS writes "Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak heaped less than lavish praise on the company's iPhone, MacBook Air and Apple TV products when visiting Sydney this morning. Wozniak said he was puzzled by the lack of 3G support on the iPhone and that he didn't believe the MacBook Air would be a hit."

20 of 360 comments (clear)

  1. I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, Steve is just stating what everyone else is thinking! Everyone who isn't completely in love with apple, that is. Although apple has great products, they're not for everyone, and because of that, they lack certain features.

    For example, the macbook air isn't very good as a main computer, and the lack of 3G iphones has to do with battery life - Apple has chosen to offer certain features which are mutually exclusive with other features - I'm glad someone ... respectable ... is saying it!

    I know a girl who has apple everything. She wouldn't buy a music player if it didn't come from apple - and she has 4 ipods, and 3 apple computers. She likes things to WORK, and she likes them to look beautiful. So, she ** IS ** apple's target market.

    Me, on the other hand, I prefer other options - I LIKE figuring out how my gadgets work, and I like repairing them at home ... so if they're a little bigger (because they're not manufatured with VERY tight tolerances, like the ipod nano), then I'm okay with that.

    1. Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... by failedlogic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This touches on a much larger problem for Apple ... they make throw-away gadgets and computers of increasingly lesser quality as they build up a user-base. They are in some ways becoming Dell by decreasing quality (for increased profit) as their sales volume increases.

      I think the quality of the iMac systems have gone down since the switch-over to Intel. I'm not tempted to buy one and would rather continue to use my G5 (not an option much longer) or buy a PC. I have to buy a whole lot of extra junk and throw it away after using it because Apple couldn't/wouldn't make a more affordable and expandable desktop. I'd like a better video card. I'd like a second hard-drive inside the system, ditto a better DVD burner. So when I replace the iMac with a PC, I don't need the HDD and burner enclosure. My LCD monitor (on the iMac), if I decide not to keep the iMac is utterly useless to me as I can't change it from computer to LCD monitor (there is a way, I'm not tempted or skilled enough to try).

      The iPod market is very much dependent on a throw-away society. My 5th Gen iPod's battery is supposed to last around 12 to 20 hours (can't remember the marketing lingo) but it has only ever lasted around 6 hours. I've replaced the battery myself with a higher life brand-name battery. Still same result. The shuffle, nano and the iPhone build on this idea of throw-away. I don't like the idea of having to send-in a cell-phone and not have access to it for a few days for Apple to change the battery. Hello?! for some people its their only phone. Calling 911, at the least, is going to be impossible!

    2. Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... by egomaniac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I call BS. Apples don't "just work" any more than XP machines do.

      I concede that Apples are not perfect machines the way many fanboys claim they are, but I strongly disagree that they have as many problems as XP machines. "Just work" includes things like not having to resort to Google every time I want to find an infrequently accessed setting or command, which I find myself doing embarrassingly often on XP and Vista. They're both horribly laid out, and completely different from one another with respect to how to perform many common tasks.

      OS X, even after a decade of dedicated Windows use, makes far more sense to me, and obviously to many others. It's clearly a personal matter, and you might not share the same opinion, but you can't deny that many people feel OS X is easier to navigate.

      Wireless networking is hell if you want WPA encryption.

      Wait... what? I've got WPA encryption on my network. The user experience was: OS X told me that the network required a password and prompted me to enter it. I entered it. And presto, I was hooked up to the network. Where exactly is the "hell" part?

      What Apples do do is have more preloaded software. So, if you are considering the default software package, then sure. I have had to split my time equally between OSX and XP, and I spent far more time fiddling getting stuff to work in OSX.

      What exactly did you have to fiddle with on the OS X side of things to get it to work?

      --
      ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
    3. Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... by gpalyu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "For me, Trebuchet. The OS X firewall solution is too simplistic" Are you saying Windows Firewall is the ultimate firewall for Windows then?

  2. 3G by dangerz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I definitely do miss the speed of 3G, all the other features of the iPhone made it worth it. I came from the Cingular 8525 and while it was an ok phone, all the apps on there seemed like they were made for a computer. Tiny buttons, slow response times and nothing worked well together.

    The thing I like about the iPhone is while it does have a lot of apps, all of them were made for a phone. MMS is stupid not having, but I knew that when I purchased it. Hopefully it's just a firmware update.

    Overall, it's a pretty good phone and I dont regret buying it.

    --
    The greatest experience we can have is the mysterious.
    - Albert Einstein
  3. No questions by TheMeuge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do however question the release of the iPhone without g3 support.
    I don't. The reason is so blindingly obvious, it takes a superb amount of fanboyism to ignore:

    Apple released a non-3G iPhone, to ensure that everyone who buys the first iPhone for $500, will buy the iPhone3G for $500, a year later.
    1. Re:No questions by timster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because there is SO much free space inside the iPhone case for large extra chipsets. And AT&T's 3G network is well enough built out that the average user can expect 3G performance to be better than EDGE performance a significant majority of the time. And there are no independent tests confirming that 3G chipsets available in 2007 used much more battery power even when just making calls.

      Not.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    2. Re:No questions by eebra82 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple released a non-3G iPhone, to ensure that everyone who buys the first iPhone for $500, will buy the iPhone3G for $500, a year later. That doesn't sound like Apple at all, does it? For starters, EDGE sucks on a phone that is intended for YouTube, Safari and mail applications. It makes as little sense as putting FIAT tires on a Lamborghini. Secondly, Apple's top of the line products usually equip the latest hardware. Just look at their computers and software products.

      There is probably an entirely different reason Apple "chose" not to include 3G.
    3. Re:No questions by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't. The reason is so blindingly obvious, it takes a superb amount of fanboyism to ignore:

      Apple released a non-3G iPhone, to ensure that everyone who buys the first iPhone for $500, will buy the iPhone3G for $500, a year later.

      I think the reasons were a little more complicated. While I fully agree that Apple likes to ensure that their fans purchase the same thing many, many times, I don't think that's what happened here. I honestly think they would have gone with a better network initially if they could, but that they couldn't get a provider with 3G support and willing to cave to all their demands initially. What you're suggesting is that Apple intentionally crippled a product that, if we recall from a year ago, was given a real chance of being the next Newton. I think making a phone was sufficiently important to Jobs that he wasn't going to dick around intentionally crippling it.

      We saw what he did instead - charge early adopters a tax for the privilege.

    4. Re:No questions by node+3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is probably an entirely different reason Apple "chose" not to include 3G. Yeah, and that reason is pretty obvious once you think about it. This was Apple's first phone. They basically started from scratch, and didn't know ahead of time what sort of choices would be better than others. By all accounts, the iPhone was barely ready for show at MWSF '07, and just barely ready for roll-out in June.

      Apple felt it was better to get the parts they had working, working well, than it was to start adding whole new parts into the mix. While I would definitely like 3G, I'd rather have EDGE + the iPhone that's out now than 3G + delayed iPhone + lowered battery life + other aspects of the phone being less finished.

      I also don't buy the "other 3G phones don't have battery problems" argument. The chips themselves don't lie, and they *do* require more power. You can't beat physics. What you *can* do is make the necessary concessions. Such as using less power on the rest of the phone, or using aggressive power management, or using a larger battery, or using EDGE chips most of the time and switching over the 3G on demand, etc. But in all of those cases, it would *absolutely and without question* diminish some other feature of the iPhone, making it larger, or later, or less powerful, or more laggy, etc. If the biggest complaint about the iPhone is that it uses EDGE instead of 3G, then given all the other great features of the phone, it's more than a fair trade, *especially* since a 3G iPhone is inevitable.

      As for the battery being non-replaceable, the real question for me is, had the iPhone had a removable battery, would I have caved in and bought one by now? And the answer, for me, is a resounding 'no'. This means such an iPhone would have been larger or had a smaller capacity battery, and would have been structurally and aesthetically less solid. In other words, a whole lot of lose for absolutely no win.
    5. Re:No questions by node+3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On a windows smartphone with 3G, you've got much better data rates. The funny thing about that is that, when it comes to loading a page, the iPhone on EDGE generally shows you the finished page before a 3G phone does. Even though the data is retrieved faster, the actual presentation of the final page is slower. Even more, the iPhone actually shows you a fully desktop-like version of the page, just as it would look in Safari, sans-flash.

      So not only does an EDGE iPhone load pages faster than a 3G otherphone, the pages look better as well.

      And the tables tilt even further in the iPhone's favor with the interface itself.

      Really, the only thing you miss out on not having 3G is when tethering the phone to a computer to use its internet connection (something the iPhone doesn't even officially support anyway). This *is* important to some people, but undoubtedly not for the overwhelming majority of people.
  4. Re:Hum by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The iPhone didn't change the face of the cell phone market. It changed the face of the Idiot Bauble market by allowing them to buy a phone, but the most intense users of phones before the iPhone launch (corporate) still can't use the thing, so I fail to see how a non-3G phone corporate users can't use is changing the face of the cell phone market. Also, outside the US, the iPhone hasn't been as great a success. Most other countries already had phones that bested the iPhone on features (and price). The iPhone and the Air are just extrapolations of a game Apple didn't put into play. They're just using their clout to push things forward slightly, they're not launching new ways of thinking about existing products. They're playing the same game as everyone else, they just happen to have millions of grass-roots users screaming about their new products every time someone hears something new about them.

  5. Woz's notebook is already here... by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's called the MacBook Pro. I'm sure he has a few. The Air isn't for him.

    And of course everyone wants 3G on the iPhone. Judging from the sales, it's not a fatal flaw.

  6. Re:So? by eldepeche · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would say it's more newsworthy than Linus or RMS saying something, because everyone always knows what Linus thinks, and RMS never shuts up. It's been a while since I read a quotation from Woz.

  7. Re:Apple's biggest mistake with the iPhone by metamatic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Apple should have released an SDK for the iPod Touch that gives full access to the system on both the iPod Touch and iPhone when the iPhone is not on a cellular network.

    Wait, you actually bought that garbage about needing the SDK restrictions in order to ensure network security? In spite of the fact that Nokia, Sony Ericsson, RIM, and all the WinCE handset makers have open SDKs which don't require application signing?

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  8. Re:Hum by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most other countries already had phones that bested the iPhone on features (and price). I've played with an iPhone and it beats any other phone I've seen on interface hands down. Outside the US, however, it is far too restrictive. People here in the UK are used to cheap phones supporting 3G (my three-year-old one does, and it was free with the cheapest contract I could find). We are used to being able to install third-party software (I installed the Google Mobile Maps thing last night, for example, and have a third-party file manager which makes copying large collections of photos via bluetooth much easier than the built-in one). We are also, sadly, used to phones with horrible UIs. Being asked to trade a lot of features and a crap UI for fewer features, no way of adding the missing ones, a (much) higher price and a better UI is not the compelling.

    I looked on eBay last night, and the N95 goes for about half the price of the iPhone. In terms of features, it is far ahead of the iPhone. Would you pay twice as much for a better UI and fewer features?

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  9. re: Would you pay twice as much for better UI ? by King_TJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think your question really hits the nail on the head, actually. When people buy Apple products, they're almost *always* doing so specifically because they're willing to "pay more for a better UI". And yes, part of that inherently means "fewer features".

    Did the iPod become a huge success because it had the "most features for the dollar"? Hardly! It didn't even have a lousy built-in FM radio tuner! The beauty of it, though, was the overall form factor and UI functionality. While China and Korea were cranking out cheap little generic MP3 players with tiny buttons and single line LCD displays, Apple came along with a player that was easy and actually *enjoyable* for people to manipulate. I remember when I first bought a 2nd. generation iPod, I'd hand it to reluctant people who said "I don't know how to use one of these things!" - and within seconds, they'd get a big grin on their face when they realized how that scroll-wheel let them move through the menus. The whole thing just had a "satisfying" feel to operating it, and even to simply holding it in your hand comfortably.

    Mac OS X is much the same way. It's a visually satisfying OS, as well as one that most people find relatively "friendly" to use once they give it a chance. If your only (or main) concern is having the most possible options to tweak/modify, then OS X isn't for you. Many aspects of the UI are chosen for you by Apple's designers, and you'll have to buy 3rd. party tools (that often destabilize the system or fail when updates come along) just to force the changes. On the other hand, MOST of us just want an operating system that's stable, looks good out of the box, and does the things we need it to do. OS X seems to accomplish all of this quite well.

    I see the iPhone as yet another device in this vein. Some phones really cram in too MANY features, and it just makes the menus hard to navigate. Most cellphone users can't even tell you what some of the options do, or at least how to get to them on their phones. The iPhone does a pretty darn impressive job of making it easy to access the things you really might want to use on your phone, while leaving out a lot of the confusion. (EG. If I want to call forward my number to another number, I don't have to to remember that my carrier uses * and some 2 digit code to turn forwarding on, and another such code to turn it back off. I simply tap the "Call forward" option on the iPhone menu and key in the destination number for it. I then slide the switch to either "On" or "Off" and it's done.) And obviously, the web browsing experience blows away most of the competition. It's the first of many "Smartphones" I've had where I can surf "normal" web sites and actually read the content properly.

  10. Re:Hum by smackt4rd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think they're just following the same old "ipod" strategy. (which has worked so far) They keep adding incremental upgrades to the device, and get to charge you $400 for each new one. Why not keep that up, if people keep falling for it?

  11. Woz by lpangelrob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My wife and I listened to his book (oddly named iWoz) while traveling in Alaska. He's brilliant, and so is Jobs. They're brilliant in different ways, though. Steve Jobs has an innate ability to know in advance what the consumer will like (and he's right most of the time, and wrong sometimes. See 1st generation Apple TV, the G3 Cube, etc.). Woz had (and presumably, still has) an innate ability to make it work with what he's got.

    Which is why I understand Woz not seeing where the Air will fit in today's market. It's not quite a part of his skillset. He's still a genius.

  12. Re:lack of touchscreen... by *weasel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    what's wrong with a clipboard:
    storage space is low
    edits are limited/lossy
    organizing/achiving/backing-up media is challenging and error prone beyond trivial use
    searching is slow
    long access time for reference data during work tasks
    network transmission is slow and lossy
    data re-entry to digital systems is time-consuming and error-prone.

    It's a mark of how poorly tablets have been done thus far, that a clipboard still compares favorably.
    It's not unlike the early days of personal computing, when people snickered about not having to reboot their typewriters.

    Yet, as with desktops before them, it's just a matter of time before tablets are done well-enough that their drawbacks are trivial next to their advantages. The form-factor is too perfect to be relegated to the dustbin of history. Eventually someone will create a tablet computer with hardware and software built from the ground-up for its task. And it will carve itself a very respectable slice of the computing market.

    --
    // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"