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The Copyright Crusade a Lost Cause?
A. Smith writes "Ars Technica is exploring the relationship between property rights and copyright, arguing that copyright holders are making a mistake by stressing similarities between property rights and copyright. They compare P2P users to 18th-century squatters in North America: 'Like squatters of old, many ordinary users find copyright law bewildering and are frustrated by the arbitrary restrictions it imposes. Customers wanting to rip their DVD collections to their computers, download music they can play on any device, or incorporate copyrighted works into original creative works find that there is no straightforward, legal way to do these things.' They conclude by offering that more reasonable, understandable copyright restrictions would result in a user base friendlier to publisher interests."
And not a new idea.
The last time this came up on slashdot, a point was made that until some income is derived from a copyrighted work it has no value. Thus taxes paid on such works are via income tax.
a mouse, telephone, coke, screwdriver, keyboard, 2 monitors, flashlight, and blank DVD spindle are not real property.
Real property refers to real estate, which is "the land and anything permanently affixed to it". Personal property is everything else.
Get your definitions straight.
Well then, the assessor should find it worth almost nothing, and tax you an appropriate amount.
Well then, if it's worthless, you should simply give up your copyright on it, rather than keeping it from the public.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
In California Real Estate Law, your mouse, stapler, telephone, can of coke, screwdriver, keyboard, 2 monitors, flashlight, and spindle of blank DVDs are personal property, not real property. It's all "Chattel".
Real property is considered tangible and mostly immovable. The grandparent post's warehouse, factory, and store are real property.
Now before people complain that it must be "real" because they can touch it, I should point out that the word "real" in this case derives from the Spanish word for Royal. "Real Estate" doesn't mean an estate that's "fake"... it was traditionally land granted to you by the king, hence "Royal Land".
So, buildings and land are considered Real Property (and therefore fall under a slew of taxation laws). The chattel on our desks, including the desks themselves are Personal Property.
IANAL, but I'm having a problem with the claim that IP is "Real Property". What kind of claim is that? Is it legally clueless media companies (despite large legal teams) trying to enforce the idea that IP is "not fake"? Or are they trying afford the same protections for which we provide to "Royal Land"?
So MPAA/RIAA, which is it - are movies and music Personal Property, or Real Property? Answer carefully, because one answer will cause you give up several contested channels of distribution, and the other will let the State tax the hell out of your IP.
Solomon Chang
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
Maybe in your country, but in the US you're dead wrong. The US Constitution says "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;"
If you rent a home, you have exclusive right to that home but you don't own it. If the founding fathers meant that one could own content, it would have read "granting ownership" instead of "securing for limited times the exclusive right".
I asked in another thread why, in this light, a law school had "intellectial property" in its name and Ray Beckerman (AKA "NewYorkCountyLawyer") responded (and I'm paraphrasing here) that it was just a name, not descriptive.
The efforlessness of reproduction does not nullify the ownership of content, but the US Constitution does.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
You are using the same fallacious logic IDiots use when referring to evolution as a "theory".
Property has multiple meanings. The "property" in "property tax" has specific meaning. But, property has a different meaning when used in "intellectual property".
Consider this: If one has to pay property tax on intellectual property, one would also have to pay property tax on cars, bikes, books, furniture, and everything else one owns.
Are you sure you want that?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Perhaps the comparison to real estate is somewhat apt.
Chattel is naturally owned, and regulated (if at all) by state government (probably UCC, but I don't really know).
IP is naturally owned (e.g. a trade secret) until you share it. At that point, you have either given it away or sold it. Other people have it, now, so you don't really own it anymore. Or that's how it would be, except for an interesting thing: the constitution gives the federal government the power to establish copyright law. Under copyright law, you no longer own the single expression, but are granted some exclusion rights. Granted. Given by government (as a King might give land), as an incentive for you to create and give up more.
Right, Some states (Virginia mine) Personal Property is subject to taxation as well. Things like cars, boats, motorcycles, planes, livestock you are required to pay an assessed tax every year on the current value of the items.
Neutrons are slippery little rascals, they can fool you. They can bounce and show up around corners you don't expect.
"Consider this: If one has to pay property tax on intellectual property, one would also have to pay property tax on cars.."
I just DID pay a property tax on my car. I was just told by the state that my car is worth $7300 and I have to pay $25 for every $1000 of value. Even if it just sits in the garage. It's not a road use tax, it's a "value of the item" tax. Don't pay it and you can lose it.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Really? I have stapler on my desk that I don't pay property taxes on.
hmmm, I have a computer,desk, counters, displays, pizza oven, freezers, and inventory I pay tax on every year. Around here it's called Personal Property Tax even tho it's only on business now days. I can remember about 30 years ago we had to pay a tax on cars, boats, RV's and refrigerators.Each year I get a declaration form in the mail and I have to fill it out with my estimated value. If they think I am fudging the numbers they will send someone by to do an inventory.
so yes this kind of tax exists.
I think that might be true of personal property too though,
I think it is. I think its called 'theft'.
As in: "Hey, give that back, its mine."
Granted, you'd have to be awfully petty to want to bust someone over a few staples out of your stapler, or some ink out of your pen, but really that's what it would be.
I would find it hard to imagine anybody the would begrudge someone making a 'copy' of their piece or real estate, oh, I'm sorry, I take that back. Yes, unfortunately I can imagine exactly the kind of greedy ass hats that would, slime who would rather see people freezing on the streets and begging for scraps from the tables of the rich, the RIAA/MPAA staff and the publishers that support them.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen