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Lessig On Corruption and Reform

Brian Stretch sends us to the National Review for an interview with Stanford professor Lawrence Lessig. Lessig talks about money, politics, money in politics, and his decision not to run for an open seat in Congress. From the interview: "Lessig hates corruption. He hates it so much, in fact, that last year he announced he'd be shifting away from his work on copyright and trademark law... to focus on it... 'One of the biggest targets of reform that we should be thinking about is how to blow up the FCC.'"

42 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. Explosives by mrbluze · · Score: 3, Funny

    One of the biggest targets of reform that we should be thinking about is how to blow up the FCC.

    Why stop at blowing up the FCC?

    --
    Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    1. Re:Explosives by mrbluze · · Score: 3, Funny

      (err.. and before someone arrests me for that comment, I wasn't being LITERAL)

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    2. Re:Explosives by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes! Let's also blow up the other letters of the alphabet! After that, we target pictograms and heiroglyphics!

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    3. Re:Explosives by johannesg · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why blow up a compiler in the first place? I'm assuming 'FCC' is some sort of relation to 'GCC'... I tried "fcc -v" but didn't get any meaningful results though. Maybe it is just not installed on my system?

    4. Re:Explosives by tepples · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why blow up a compiler in the first place? I'm assuming 'FCC' is some sort of relation to 'GCC'... I tried "fcc -v" but didn't get any meaningful results though. Maybe it is just not installed on my system? FCC is a special compiler. If you compile the driver for certain wireless networking cards with FCC, it deletes the source code and leaves only a binary behind.
  2. I would have moved... by Bartab · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... in order to vote for Lessig for Congress. Not that it's a big move, mind you, I live in Oakland.

    It's unfortunate he decided not to run.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
    1. Re:I would have moved... by dido · · Score: 2, Informative

      FTA:

      NRO: Why did you decide not to run for Congress?

      Lessig: The race was a special election being held on April 8. It became clear it was going to be impossible to achieve any recognition of the campaign or the issues in 30 days. The fear was that a failure would be an indictment of the reform movement.

      There may be yet another campaign for Lessig in Congress. More power to him then!

      --
      Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
  3. FCC moves aim to curry favor of future employers by SpaceWanderer · · Score: 5, Informative
    I thought this was interesting. Found it on Lessig's blog. Basically, FCC employees brown-nose prospective future employers by decreeing public policies that benefits those future employers.

    The wires are sparking with news of the GAO report (pdf) that FCC insiders routinely tipped lobbyists and corporate insiders about agency agenda decisions before they were made public. This is critical, because under agency "sunshine rules," FCC members can't be lobbied for the week between the public announcement of an agenda and the meeting. Knowing what's going to be announced on the agenda in advance thus gives lobbyists and corporate insiders an opportunity to lobby before the sun[shine rules] rise. From the report: FCC generally followed the rulemaking process in the four case studies of completed rulemakings that GAO reviewed, but several stakeholders had access to nonpublic information. Specifically, each of the four rulemakings included steps as required by law and opportunities for public participation. Within the case studies, most ex parte filings complied with FCC rules. However, in the case studies and in discussions with other stakeholders that regularly participate in FCC rulemakings, multiple stakeholders generally knew when the commission scheduled votes on proposed rules well before FCC notified the public. FCC rules prohibit disclosing this information outside of FCC. Other stakeholders said that they cannot learn when rules are scheduled for a vote until FCC releases the public meeting agenda, at which time FCC rules prohibit stakeholders from lobbying FCC. As a result, stakeholders with advance information about which rules are scheduled for a vote would know when it is most effective to lobby FCC, while stakeholders without this information would not. When I commented upon this to a colleague, his response was typical: "What do you expect? And anyway, so what? What's wrong with giving affected parties a bit more time to make their case?" "What's wrong" first is that the rules say otherwise. "What's wrong" second is that the rules are bent in a completely predictable way. Agency insiders curry favor with precisely the people they'll be getting a job with after they leave the FCC. And "what's wrong" third is just what this indicates about the kinds of bending we might expect goes on inside the FCC. If the agency is willing to bend the rules to favor futures employers, are they willing to put the thumb on the scale in difficult contested policy determinations? But my colleague was right about one thing: "What do [I] expect?" Here's an agency chaired by a former lobbyist. Is it likely to be scrupulous about rules meant to constrain or balance the lobbying process? This example is just one many that is our government. (As I'm learning as I work through the extraordinary reading list compiled by my Read-Write readers at the Lessig Wiki on Corruption. But it needs to become a bigger issue for the candidates in this election. Let's hear a promise by the presidential candidates that they will only appoint FCC commissioners who promise not to work for those they have regulated for at least 5 years after their term is over. That would be real change.
  4. You won't get the money out of politics... by Nova+Express · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...until you get politics out of money.

    More government control of the economy = more corruption. The more opportunity congress has to pick winners and losers, the more money businessmen are willing to spend to rig the outcome. The more powerful and less accountable a bureaucracy is to voters, the less checks their are to curb corruption. This is why the scandals in the previous French government and the UN oil-for-food scandal dwarf anything that's ever gone on in America. And the trend is to makle those bureaucracies even less accountable to votes (think of the EU's centralizing drive, and how the latest UK Labour government decided it didn't need to let its citizens vote on surrendering sovereignty to the EU after all. The more centralized power, the fewer chances for checks and balances to prevent corruption. And of course the communist bureaucracies of the old Soviet Union were the most corrupt of all, with millions killed while the Nomenklatura lived in luxury.

    As Lord Acton noted, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The larger and more centralized government becomes, the more opportunities for corruption.

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Lessig doesn't really seem to agree with this. He says he knows government is corrupted by money. The Libertarian answer is to reduce the size of government to reduce the amount of corruption, but Lessig somehow thinks that the amount of corruption can be dramatically reduced without taking that step. But he can't explain concretely how.

      His only plan is to get politicians to promise they won't take lobbyist money, and to "abolish earmarks", and to add more campaign finance restrictions. Sorry Larry, but politicians are professional promise-skirters, and I see no reason to believe that them making yet another promise is going to significantly change how the government works at all levels.

      The "abolish earmarks" thing is especially quixotic; you might as well make them promise to stop gerrymandering while you're at it. They'll find another way to do it, and just call it something else, or outright deny that's what they're doing, playing with the word definitions. As for the lobbyist thing, lobbyists have *plenty* of ways to influence politicians besides outright giving them money, and there's not even a way to enumerate all of them, much less make every politician promise to ignore them, and then enforce that promise.

      I don't see any part of Larry's plan that makes me think it's more sensible than the Libertarian point of view. The problem of government corruption is just too complex to confront head-on, and it's okay to admit that. "Special Interests" are ingenious, well-funded, and determined; thinking that they can be outmaneuvered forever is just hubris. There is a simple solution, and we know what it is: the way to *truly* remove corruption from a part of the government is to eliminate that part of the government.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    2. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by Danse · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Libertarian answer is to reduce the size of government to reduce the amount of corruption The problem with the Libertarian answer is that it is vague and largely unworkable due to the current level of corruption. You need to come up with ways to reduce the amount of impact the corrupt officials can have by proposing things that are concrete and easier for people to get behind than something like "reducing the size of government".
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    3. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More government control of the economy = more corruption.

      And yet, those Nordic countries were the state has great control over the economy are also marked by some of the lowest government corruption in the world.

    4. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by jsebrech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your assumption seems to be that it is possible to reduce the size of government. I disagree with this notion. If you reduce the size of democratic government a non-democratic government will arise to replace it. Your example of communist russia is an excellent one. After the collapse of the communist government private enterprise filled up the power vacuum that was left, and focused more on profit than on people. The end result was that people actually overall had it noticeably worse under the weak government model that came after than under the all-encompassing communist model of old.

      I might also mention that no country in the EU has abandoned sovereignty because countries can leave the EU at any time without approval from the other EU member states. The EU is a treaty, not a country. This makes the EU very fragile. If it became a harm to its member countries instead of a benefit, it would dissolve rapidly.

      And by the way, the EU has been very good for my country. Without the EU we would have more pollution, unhealthier food, higher unemployment, severe trade and budget deficits, a devalued coin, higher unemployment, and software patents.

    5. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by jmv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More government control of the economy = more corruption.

      Sorry, I have to disagree on that one. Some of the least corrupt governments in the world happen to be the scandinavian countries, which also happen to be very much on the socialist side. You can also find plenty of the opposite case, i.e. banana republics where the government doesn't control the economy and is very corrupt. I wouldn't go as far as saying that more govt control means less corruption, but I definitely disagree on your simple "more control = more corruption" statement.

      This is why the scandals in the previous French government and the UN oil-for-food scandal dwarf anything that's ever gone on in America.

      I disagree on that one to. All the oil-for-food scandals around the world (not just French, there was AU and probably others) are just dwarfed by the US corruption involved in the Iraq invasion. Starting from Halliburton's ex-CEO supporting the was a vice-president, making up false "evidence" (and screwing up the career of the wife of the guy who exposed that in the process), turning a blind eye on over-billing (Halliburton and others), and all the stuff we haven't heard of yet.

      As Lord Acton noted, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

      True, but there are ways to reduce the power of *individuals* while making sure the govt has control on the economy. Just because the US screwed up at that, doesn't mean you have to deregulate everything. What needs to be done is that the power must be distributed. That's the idea behind the US "checks and balance" principles. The only problem is that there's currently an individual who managed to mostly seize most of the powers. That's where the problem is.

    6. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by bytesex · · Score: 3, Informative

      You mean, other than Nokia, oil, hydro, oil, Erikson, Nilfisk, oil, Volvo, oil, Saab, oil, boats, drilling rigs, construction, oil, Ikea, Maersk, oil, and oil, they have no economy ? Sure.

      --
      Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
    7. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by lastninja · · Score: 2, Informative

      We have other types of corruption, nepotism for example is rampant here in Sweden. Also it should be remembered that the laws that our government passes seldom affects business decisions, they are mostly to control the people. So there is rather small reason to try and bribe anyone. unlike France where the people are relativly free from government control but where business is heavyly regulated.

      --
      John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
    8. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by sgt_doom · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You post is quite excellent, Good Citizen Spy Hunter, but I must take exception with you when you state:

      The problem of government corruption is just too complex to confront head-on, and it's okay to admit that.

      In 1978 two pivotal bills were passed by a heavily "purchased" US Congress. First, the bill allowing corporations, via lobbyists and other methods, to buy off Congress, whereas previously they hadn't been allowed to contribute to political campaigns due to legislation created and successfully lobbied for by President Teddy Roosevelt.

      The second bill, thanks to a bought-off Black Congressional Caucus, gave tax breaks to corporations for laying off American workers and offshoring their jobs - they created and passed this in the name of "diversity" - evidently they considered "diversity" only to apply to foreign Asian workers and not Black American (and other American) workers.

      These bills, especially when examined together, have brought us (along with soooo many other corrupt practices - please see sites below) to where the USA is today.

      Of course, others have influence as well over US elections. Please read this excellent article blog as well as this outstanding blog.

    9. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by lastninja · · Score: 2

      More government control of the economy = more corruption.

      Sorry, I have to disagree on that one. Some of the least corrupt governments in the world happen to be the scandinavian countries, which also happen to be very much on the socialist side. You can also find plenty of the opposite case, i.e. banana republics where the government doesn't control the economy and is very corrupt. I wouldn't go as far as saying that more govt control means less corruption, but I definitely disagree on your simple "more control = more corruption" statement. The Nordic countries have relatively little control over the business side of the economy, for example the telecom industry in Sweden and Finland is the most libertarian in the world(last time I checked Nokia was basically the entire Finnish stock exchange). The government do however have large say over working peoples wallets. Since people have relatively small amounts of money bribing officials are out of the question. Getting permits to build a house can take years, but will go much faster if the official granting them is you dad.

      While the banana republics may have low taxes, (I assume you mean South America) you basically need a permit to go to the toilet, unless you bribe someone ofcourse. Government control of the economy is much more than taxation it is as much about regulation.
      --
      John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
    10. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by krasmussen · · Score: 4, Informative

      A bit of facts.

      GDP per capita 2007:
      Norway: 47,098
      United States: 44,765
      Iceland: 41,680
      Denmark: 38,438
      Finland: 37,957
      Sweden: 36,687

    11. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The initial allocation of spectrum doesn't have to be *perfectly* just for the market to be beneficial in the long run. We can do our best to start fairly; we can have auctions, etc. There will be winners; there will be losers; but the important thing is to get the market established, so that it can work going *forward*. Saying we shouldn't have a market at all because we can't guarantee total fairness of the initial conditions is not a good argument.

      Besides, nobody is in a position to be screwed as badly as the Indians were; nobody is living in this spectrum and nobody's going to get killed. The entities with the most to lose are the huge telecommunications corporations with billions invested in infrastructure, but nobody is proposing that their spectrum be taken away during the transition. I just don't see any disasters resulting from a transition to a free market; certainly nothing on the scale of what happened to the Indians; the benefits far outweigh the startup costs.

      Moreover, we still have the problem of geography in the ownership of a frequency.
      These problems aren't unique to a free market system. They exist in the system we have today and have been mostly solved to the satisfaction of the current spectrum users. There are disputes, but the system of enforcement works today. The system we have now resembles ownership in some important ways and should be a starting point for any market system we would establish.

      I would suggest looking at historical cases of economic laissez-faire
      Any specific examples in mind?
      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    12. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by Kohath · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you reduce the size of democratic government a non-democratic government will arise to replace it.

      Therefore, all governments have always been exactly the same size.

    13. Re:You won't get the money out of politics... by -noefordeg- · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Have no economy?
      What does that mean?

      My Norwegian 100 kroner bill, which is in my pocket right now, have for the past few years increased 50% in value compared to the USD. The reason for this is the lack of Norwegian economy?

  5. Re:Why not run it? by Bartab · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Are you under some delusion that the Democrats don't like the FCC?

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
  6. Re:"Blow up" the FCC? by Bartab · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's just you. You're a crazy conspiracy nutcase.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
  7. Re:Why not run it? by HaeMaker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Obama sought out Lessig for his technology policy! If Lessig gives him a reasonable road map to implement the FCC-related portions of the technology plan, he can easily get an appointment, and there is NOW WAY the democratic congress is going to reject his appointment...unless his nanny is an illegal immigrant.

  8. Re:Why not run it? by Moridineas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just out of curiosity, what are Obama's "radical" ideas on fixing the US?

  9. Re:Why not run it? by blowdart · · Score: 3, Funny

    As a subject of Her Majesty the Queen I've been watching the US race with some interest (and lots of spam from idiot US activists, thanks guys). I must admit to liking Obama not for any real reason, but because his slogan "Yes we can" is in fact a very British phrase taken from one of our most popular entertainers, Bob the Builder. Who would have thought the slogan from a pre-school edu-tainment star would reach the heady heights of US political office?

  10. I would subscribe to his newsletter by rsax · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What a coincidence, I just watched Pirate Radio USA, a documentary which contains all these fun facts about the FCC and big business.

  11. Re:FCC moves aim to curry favor of future employer by Danse · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Basically, FCC employees brown-nose prospective future employers by decreeing public policies that benefits those future employers. So it's just like Congress, or any number of other government agencies.
    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  12. Careful there Larry by eclectro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many a nerd who happens to read your blog got their ham license through the FCC and talked with the world *before* there was an internet. Or even computers. Many of us built computers from schematics that showed up in the early magazines and interfaced them to radios. We were making phone calls with radios *before* there was cell phones. Countless hams worked in the electronics industry, and worked in companies that brought forth many of the innovations we use today. A ham radio license, which was hard-eanred (most of us automatically decode all that mosrse code when it shows up on TV :D), is and continues to be a cherished part of many peoples lives. And was the beginning of many careers in technology and science.

    While the FCC has many flaws, be careful to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. While I mention ham licenses, they do have a place in technical matters as well.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  13. Re:For the benefit of the non-US part of the audie by RodgerDodger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    An earmark is this crazy system the Americans have for tacking supplementary pieces of legislation in. For example - let's say there's this important piece of legislation for, say, feeding starving babies. It's bound to get through - no question. So some congresscritter from Alaska says "I'll vote for this, but I'm adding this clause where we also give $500million to build a bridge in Florida". If the bill passes, so does the addition - the earmark.

    It's a tad more complicated than that, but that's the general gist; US politicans can append stuff to legislation (in some cases, after it's already been voted on!) and there is no easy way to get it taken out, but the bill is still needed, so the whole tainted package gets through.

    How the US ever came up with such a wacky system I don't know...

    --
    "Software is too expensive to build cheaply"
  14. All Politics is Local by OakLEE · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've worked, studied, and basically lived in current political system for nearly 6 years, and in my opinion, its FUBAR, or close enough at any rate.

    The biggest problem is that our current system was not built to handle vast government bureaucracy that has cropped up since WWII. Now look, before any liberals get pissy, I'm not a Paul-tard, and I'm not saying that government should only build roads, delivery mail, and fund a military.

    That said, fundamentally, the U.S. form of representative democracy was built to do just that. It was meant to keep politics as the local and state level, while the current political discourse in this country has increasingly grown more national. Take the legislative bodies in the states and Congress for example. All of them are based on the idea of direct representation. A state legislator or House Member's role is to keep his or her constituents happy. If not, he gets the boot. And at the state senate and US Senate level (the latter especially after the 17th Amendment), the scope expands to a broader constituency, but the goal stays the same.

    This structure creates an incentive and drive to keep the locals happy regardless of what the greater national interest might suggest. Now, that drive worked perfectly fine as long as the government had very little cash to dole out. Back in the 19th Century, the most a legislator could do was maybe bring some funding back for a new post office, roads, or at most a military installation. Government, especially at the federal level, did little else. Even education was rarely handled at the state level. There was very little money in government, and thus very little to try to corrupt. And when corruption did occur, it was on a much smaller (monetary) scale. (Hell even the land scandals with the railroad companies, while extremely bad, didn't really cost the government any money.)

    Now, fast forward to the current situation where federal spending over the last 50 years has been at least 20% of the GDP, and where it is now accepted and expected that government's role is to dole that money out to someone, whether it be corporations through subsidies and contracts, the poor through welfare, students through college grants and loans, schools through grants and funds, the elderly through social security, the sick through medicare, deficit-inducing tax-cuts for taxpayers, and on and on.

    With the current system, legislatures' are lured to keep the local folks happy by offering them a greater and greater share of the pie. They try to squeeze a nickel here, a dime there and before you know it, they've nickel and dimed their way into a quarter-trillion (or whatever it is now) dollar budget deficit. Look at Iraq, look at Social Security, look at the prescription drug benefit, look at no child left behind. All of these are just short term rackets run to please voters without any regard for any long-term damage they might be causing (i.e., inflation, debt, higher tax rates).

    It's the reason why the Democrats spent their way into deficits while they were in power in the 60s. It's the reason why Republicans did the exact same when they took power in the 00s. It's the exact same reason why we'll still be running a deficit 4 years from now regardless of who wins this next election. (In case you can't tell, my pet peeve is deficits.) It's the culture of pork-barreled politics, and the principle behind it ("bringing home the bacon") leads our governments--state, local, and federal--to writing checks that our society cannot cash.

    You know, it's not even really corruption per se. It's just the way the system was set up, and its probably functioning the way the Founding Fathers intended it. They just probably didn't intend for it to go beyond post offices, roads, and the military. All politics is local. Perhaps that is a maxim we (the U.S.) as a country need to rethink.

    --
    The sun beams down on a brand new day, No more welfare tax to pay, Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light...
    1. Re:All Politics is Local by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Ummmm, yes and no.

      Yes, the US govt has grown immensely since WW2.

      However, the deficits have bloomed out of control due to inadequate taxation on the rich, which began during the Reagan Administration. Presently, the highest incomes actually pay less (percentage wise) than middle income earners. Bush's tax reductions on the rich only exacerbated the problem, and that is why the USA is staring at 1/3 to 1/2 trillion dollar deficits forever.

      What we have seen over the past 100 years is the development of the American Empire. Empires are expensive to maintain and inevitably collapse under their own weight of corruption and mismanagement. That's what we are seeing now, is the dismantling of the American Empire - the abandonment of the unipolar for the multipolar geopolitic. It will take at least a few decades. The USA will be forced to retire as a global hegemon and take on a role as a regional hegemon (dominating North and South America) while China dominates East Asia, India South Asia, and Russia does a peculiar dance with a EU. Africa becomes a free-for-all exploitation zone.

      We're about to start skidding down the back end of the energy curve, and that will make global empires obsolete, if not impossible. The USA was the last of that genre.

      I think the USA is beset by a number of problems. Corruption is certainly one of them, but a lazy and wilfully ignorant populace I would rank as an even greater problem. If people were more engaged and better educated in critical thinking skills, I don't think the USA would be quite the slow motion train wreck it has become.

      RS

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  15. Re:FCC moves aim to curry favor of future employer by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This only means that your congress and other government agencies are also bad, it doesn't make FCC practice okay and sure as hell doesn't constitute a reason to stop improving things.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  16. Vague?!? Surely you jest. by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The Libertarian philosophy is anything but "vague". In fact, Libertarianism is the most well-defined and internally consistent political philosophy I've ever heard, which is probably why I like it, as a computer scientist. It's so clear cut that you can actually apply the core philosophy directly to voting decisions and get an unambiguous answer in many cases, which is not something you can say of conservatism or liberalism.

    As an example, let me run down some of the items on Barack Obama's issue pages (since I just happened to be reading them) and tell you the Libertarian answer to each point, off the top of my head:
    • Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Libertarians are for tax cuts; they reduce the size of government.
    • Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Reducing the complexity of the tax code is good, as it would tend to reduce the size of government, though Libertarians would prefer to eliminate the income tax and thus the need for individual tax filings.
    • Fight for Fair Trade: Free trade is good, but Obama proposes using trade deals to enforce our rules on other countries and protect our jobs from foreign competition. Libertarians are against this and for completely free trade.
    • Amend the North American Free Trade Agreement: Obama wants to "fix" NAFTA, and I don't know what that means but it sounds like protectionism, which Libertarians are against.
    • Improve Transition Assistance: Obama wants the government to pay to retrain workers. This increases the size of government so Libertarians are against it.
    • Support Job Creation: Obama wants to double spending on research and education. This increases the size of government so Libertarians are against it, believing that it will produce corruption and waste; a free market can do a better job of allocating those resources than fickle politicians can, without the corruption and waste.
    • Invest in U.S. Manufacturing: More spending; bigger government; Libertarians say no.
    • Create New Job Training Programs for Clean Technologies: Again, Spending. Bigger government. No.
    • Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs: Spending. Bigger government. No.
    • Deploy Next-Generation Broadband: Spending. Bigger government. No.
    • Protect the Openness of the Internet: Libertarians believe that the Internet should not be regulated.
    • Invest in Rural Areas: Spending. Bigger government. No.
    I could go on, but as you can see, the Libertarian viewpoint is very well-defined, and not at all vague. As for whether it's "unworkable" or whether people can "get behind" it, well, that's debatable. But vague is the one thing it's certainly not.
    --
    main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    1. Re:Vague?!? Surely you jest. by swillden · · Score: 2, Informative

      Libertarianism's answers are often simple, but their justification of these answers very often uses vague a priori logic.

      That may be the case, but you failed to provide any evidence for the assertion.

      For example, libertarians say that we shouldn't regulate against monopoly, because monopolies are actually always caused by government intervention... somehow or other.

      Did the Libertarian article you were reading on this topic actually fail to say how the monopolies are caused by government intervention? Or did you just stop reading? Taking the example of the monopoly most often discussed on /., Microsoft's business model is entirely dependent upon copyright, patent and trademark law. Without government support, Microsoft wouldn't exist.

      Or, we should legalize competing currencies, as the US monetary system is going to collapse... any day now.

      Libertarians wouldn't say we should legalize competing currencies because the US monetary system is going to collapse. They'd say we should legalize competing currencies because that maximizes individual liberty -- people and organizations should have the option to issue their own currency if they want to, and other people should have the right to choose whether or not they want to use it.

      As the GP said -- whether or not Libertarianism is workable is a question worthy of debate, but the philosophy is built on such simple, easy-to-apply axioms that it most definitely is not vague, and if the logic appears "a priori", that's probably because the speaker assumes it's well-understood and therefore doesn't need to be explained.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  17. Re:Why not run it? by urcreepyneighbor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just out of curiosity, what are Obama's "radical" ideas on fixing the US? CHANGE.

    That didn't convince you? Okay, let's whip out the biggie:

    HOPE.

    See? Lord Obama has answered all of your questions! Praise Obama!
    --
    "The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
  18. What made the government grow by westlake · · Score: 2, Informative
    Back in the 19th Century, the most a legislator could do was maybe bring some funding back for a new post office, roads, or at most a military installation. Government, especially at the federal level, did little else.

    You have just described a government that is wholly absorbed in building a national infrastructure.

    If your constituents lived on the Atlantic or Gulf coasts, the Great Lakes, they wanted a lighthouse, a customs station, a ship canal. "Internal improvements" as they called it in those days.

    This was never a penny-ante operation.

    The federal government was employing 14,000 postal workers as early as 1841.

    What made the government grow

  19. Corruption? Where is corruption? by hackingbear · · Score: 2

    I'm a citizen of the USA and after I lived in China for a few year between 2003-06, I made this observation:

    In China, corruption is widespread but mostly illegal (and people complaint about it rather loudly.)

    In the US, corruption is not as widely spread but it is mostly legal because it has morphed into "political contribution" and "job opportunity" (and few people complaint about it -- hey, we vote this government -- we are democratic -- how can corruption happen in a democratic system.)

  20. How to prohibit gerrymandering objectively by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    you might as well make them promise to stop gerrymandering while you're at it.

    I can think of an objective way to make gerrymandering more difficult. Measure the land area and perimeter of each electoral district. From the perimeter, compute the "ideal area" as the area of a square with the same perimeter, that is, the square of one-fourth the perimeter. Then for each district, compute the land area as a fraction of the ideal area, and require each district to have at least a specified fraction.

    After I typed that out, I looked up gerrymandering on Wikipedia, and I found that someone had already explained such a system, calling it "isoperimetric". Wikipedia lists another method that uses the area of a district's convex hull as the ideal area.

  21. Re:Copyright vs. real estate by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Copyright is an interesting case. Copyright definitely is an issue on which Libertarians might disagree. I'll give you my take on it.

    Libertarians are definitely *for* property rights and free markets, so private property ownership stays for sure. Copyright, on its face, appears to create a market for information, and Libertarians like markets. However, Libertarians also like individual liberty. Property rights restrict individual liberty, but a market in private property is required (one might say it's a necessary evil) because there is a limited supply of property which needs to be allocated fairly. Information does not need to be allocated, because there is an unlimited supply of any particular piece of information. The justification for restricting individual liberty to establish the market doesn't exist in this case. So I would say a true Libertarian would be against copyright.

    --
    main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  22. Re:Simple != vague by Danse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Less government + less government power = less effect of government corruption on normal peoples lives. It's a simple equation, but I don't think it's the least bit vague or unworkable. "Less government" is extremely vague. What do you cut? How do you cut it without causing major undesirable side-effects? How do you get people behind your proposed cuts unless you can explain what you want to cut, why you want to cut it, and how it will impact those people who's support you want? Keep in mind that you'll need a fairly large amount of support to get anything done, so you'll have to be pretty careful about what you decide to cut. This is just the beginning and off the top of my head too. There's probably a hundred other things that need to be considered as well. You need a LOT more detail.
    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer