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100-Year-Old Electric Car Design Makes a Comeback
CNet's Green Tech Blog is reporting that Detroit Electric plans to release a small number of cars based around a car designed nearly 100 years ago. Detroit Electric is a joint venture between Santa Rosa, CA-based electric transportation specialist, Zap and China's Youngman motors. "Back in 1917, a Detroit Electric cost anywhere from $1,775 to $2,375--in other words, fit for the proletarian or plutocrat. The cars could go 65 miles to 100 miles on a battery charge, but only go at speeds ranging from 6 miles per hour to 25 mph."
In the essay "Calvary in the Age of the Autarch" (collected in Castle of Days ) Gene Wolfe explains why in his far-future science-fiction epic The Book of the New Sun he had battles fought on horseback with some kind of genetically modified horse. They reproduce for you, they don't break down as stubbornly as machines (and can be used as dog chow), and they can graze instead of needing processed petrochemicals. I find that an intriguing notion, and I wonder when genetic engineering will get to the point that we can create new species to order.
This was my Father's era and he was a "prole". Working as a logger he earned somewhere around $200-300/year. The earliest data for per capita income I could find was 1929 here:
http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-33.pdf/but even then it was ~$700/year.
So how does a car that cost 3-4 years salary qualify as being "fit for the proletariotarian"?
In today's terms that car would cost ~$120,000!
Aside from a announcing a publicity stunt by a company cashing in on a green fad in visible and public low-carbonism (believe me the replica cars will *not* be for the proles!) this article is shamefully low on any actual news or facts.
Just a bit of hype.
Laborare Est Orare
If you haven't seen the documentary, Who Killed the Electric Car? then I highly recommend you check it out. It explores the roles of automobile manufacturers, the oil industry, the US government, batteries, hydrogen vehicles, and consumers in limiting the development and adoption of the electric car.
Bradley Holt
Maybe, the electric car is making a comeback... but it's making a very, very, very slooooooooooooow comeback.
Is like the equivalent of around $50k today, easily. Fords were selling for in the $250 range IIRC... So I think it is optimistic to say it was an 'affordable' vehicle.
Basically sounds like about the equivalent of a golf cart with a big battery load. Back then something like that would have been pretty cool, and 25MPH was about top speed on the roads of that day anyhow.
It is cute, but technologically? Not that interesting, lol.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
The Zap electric scooters and skateboards are much less annoying than the gas-powered, noise-polluting versions. Also, I am given to understand that the Sparrow 3-wheeled EV is making a comeback.
Militant Agnostic: "I don't know, and damn it, neither do you!"
I'm not too hopeful at the moment, myself. Here is a review of a Zap vehicle produced in China (actually, a Chinese vehicle with a Zap badge):
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/reviews/2008-zap-xebra-review/
They go anywhere from 5-35mph depending on the weather and the engine equipped, they run on any type of food and they can cost less than $20. They bicycle has been around for a long time and needs to be taken seriously as a method of locomotion.
Plugins, hybrids, fuel cells, and so on... Each of these technologies has use cases for which it can excel, each has a place in our economy in the coming years. What I don't understand is why we need to even talk about an electric car design from 100 years ago. Since that little car was made there have been phenomenal advances in materials, magnetic motors, batteries and controls - anything designed today will be vastly superior to the car of 100 years ago. The ONLY bit of design I can see that is of even marginal interest is a quaint, retro look. Mike.
Actually, they're just bringing the brand back... that should have been in the summary - but it does encourage one to read the article. ;)
BlackNova Traders
The consumer price index says that $1,775 is about $30k today, a reasonable cost for a low-mid end car new -- try it here: http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/research/data/us/calc/
But you are right that $700/year was the average annual income back in the 20s. On the other hand, the average annual income today is $26k, so things do work out roughly (i.e., the car is still a larger-than-unity fraction of a year's income.) I think the distinction here needed is not average income, but average income per household (today that is more like $48k.) Of course, there's the mean/median/mode distinction as well, but this isn't a statistics class so I'll spare us all.
Protect your liberties. Donate to the ACLU
No one will be able to live at 50 MPH! You won't be able to breathe at that speed. Best that they limit it to 25 MPH. If (insert favorite deity here) had meant for humans to go that fast, (deity) would have given them wings!
Wow, Its cool how you know exactly what streets will be like in 50 years (They will be made out of dirt) AND that electricity will be readily available, yet no fuels to alternatively power vehicles. Particularly shocking to me is that they will not be able to use concrete to pave roads. They will HAVE to resort to dirt roads in the future.
I will predict you are 100% wrong. That in 50 years we will have roads paved with something and cars will be run on something other than pure electricity. Heck, even the ROMANS didn't use dirt roads when they could avoid it. And that was 19 centuries before asphalt.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't seem completely implausible to imagine that, in a future with significant advances, an engineered creature will be the optimum mode of transport. I suspect, however, that the most it will share with a horse is the name.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
More German troops froze to death and were killed by disease than were killed by bullets. They were riding on horses because Germany was having a hell of a time supplying them and they were getting their asses kicked by the Allies.
Let's move to the ecological paradise or the early 19th century, people in Europe and America weren't dying too much of disease and cold (at least if you could get clean water.) You were just walking though mud and horse shit up to you knees, or dying of cancer at 40 from a atmosphere constantly polluted by wood and coal smoke.
I'll take our media cluster-fuck-slash-ecological apocalypse anytime.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
There are many, many paving surfaces other than asphalt. Concrete, for example. Even the most disastrous of peak oil scenarios won't result in bad road - just more expensive, more durable road that has to cure before use.
I'll buy that future cars will be lighter-weight, and that wheels will be narrower than they are now. Current cars are heavy because of safety mandates, and I think future cars will get their safety from lighter materials and active computerized evasion of danger. Wheel width gives better grip, meaning more acceleration and cornering, but better materials will give us the same grip in a narrower package with less rolling resistance. Overall I think we'll see not much performance change from right now - when the computer is driving, the performance-feel of your car is less visceral and therefore less a part of the car selection process.
I'd say they'd be cheaper in terms of work-hours needed to buy one, but even if they aren't, computer driving makes it possible to run automated taxicabs very cheaply. The line between car rental and cab service blurs, especially for longer trips.
-- Jeff Paulsen
Circa 1900, Ferry Porsche developed what has been regarded as the world's first hybrid car. See: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/11/09/070253.html. The issues with Diesel are the glow plugs have to be used in colder weather starts when the combustion chamber cools for a longer period (requires more energy) and the torque required to turn over the engine (due to the high compression ratios used in diesel engines) is greater. This eats more electricity form the battery in conditions where lots of starts, stops are done.
"Question everything, including this!" - http://technoracle.blogspot.com/
that should have been in the summary - but it does encourage one to read the article. ;)
The only way for me to be encouraged to read TFA is if someone links a printer-friendly version. I'm not wading through fifty two paragraph screens. Or has C|NET renounced the madness and rehabilitated itself to the point that I would actually RT C|NET's FA?
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
No problem. That seems to be about the same top speed as most of the Cadillacs weaving around my town.
Have gnu, will travel.
Actually, if you'd actually RTFA, you'd have seen this: "To promote itself, Detroit Electric--a new joint venture between Zap and China's Youngman Automotive Group--plan to release a limited number of cars based around the Detroit Electric"
;-)
It does encourage one to comprehend the article one is reading
sudo eat my shorts
Reminds me of Seinfeld's take on the subject.
it's a short, one page arcticle, drop the excuses and RTFA!
most of the arcticle is about the old detroit electric and the company that used to make it. the only paragraph of interest is this:
"To promote itself, Detroit Electric--a new joint venture between Zap and China's Youngman Automotive Group--plan to release a limited number of cars based around the Detroit Electric, an electric car produced by the Anderson Electric Car Co. in the early part of the 20th century."
my guess is that it's gonna be something like the P/T cruiser, prowler or new beetle. a modern design inspired by a (very) old one.
What ? Me, worry ?
The speed and range of gasoline-powered cars was higher. It was hard to tell, though, because tire failure back then was so common people spent half their time patching or changing them.
I wonder what improvements could be made to the machine given modern materials and technology. A top speed of 40 mph and a range of 50 miles, for example, would make it a really good choice for a lot of basic city driving. My daily trip to work, all my shopping and a significant part of my social life...probably 90% of my transportation needs...would fall within those parameters. I'm sure a lot of people could say the same.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
It makes sense that the oil industry would try to stop the electric car, because Americans are attracted to the idea of helping the environment and lowering their car repair costs (commuting an hour each way in stop-and-go traffic puts a hurting on most cars).
if the electric car idea were allowed to take off the oil companies would have lost lose $$billions and the electric car industry would have been at a mature point right now, rather than the current situation of oil companies having us all by the short hairs while as the price of oil skyrockets, and us discussing 100-year-old electric car designs.
Not trying to avoid all that would be a pretty stupid move -- and I don't think they are stupid.
I can't speak for the whole movie since I didn't see all of it, but the part I saw was really fascinating. They had interviews with this guy who developed a better car battery, and was really surprised when the car-makers bought his patent and then sat on it (surprise!). It had interviews with owners of the electric cars who just loved them, and mechanics who loved to work on them because they finally were not covered in grease at the end of the day. They had interviews with people who got calls from Senators warning that if the electric car idea was not stopped then the Senator would "declare war on them". They had the video of people holding vigils outside the lots holding the electric car and promising the companies millions (the prices of all the cars added up, combined with the money that people were prepared to spend to get the cars) if they people could only buy the companies. And they had video of the companies crushing the cars rather than selling them. All in all, it was pretty damning and showed that some very powerful people did not want this to happen. The actual people who got to lease the cars (they were never for sale) loved them, but when the lease was up they had to give the cars back and they were pretty heartbroken that they were not given the option to buy the cars.
Even using the CPI metric, how on earth could anyone call a $40k car "proletarian" today?
A $2995 used Taurus is a "proletarian" car in 2008. A $2375 car in 1917 would be the equivalent of a new BMW 135 with leather seats and all the options today.
I'm afraid I must conclude that this article's author has no idea what he's talking about economically.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear