Matter

sdedeo writes "Less known than he deserves to be among American science fiction readers is Iain M. Banks. In his native United Kingdom, Banks' work is released in hardcover at the front of bookshops; here, those seeking his science fiction work, at least, must dig down into the trade paperbacks — and often find things out of print. Those who do discover him in the States are usually pleasantly surprised to find the writing far more clever and engagingly written than the low-budget production values imply. With Orbit's release of his latest work, Matter, as well as its planned re-release of some of his earlier classics, things look to change." Read below for the rest of Simon's review. Matter author Iain M. Banks pages 593 publisher Orbit rating 8 reviewer Simon DeDeo ISBN 0316005363 summary Iain M. Banks latest space opera Banks is one of the leading authors of what might be called the Space Opera Renaissance. While the 1980s saw the creation of the cyberpunk genre, and the 1990s were for many the great era of "Hard SF" — science-centered masterworks such as Kim Stanley Robinson's Martian trilogy and Gregory Benford's Timescape — the 21st century seems to perhaps be an era impatient for the sometimes comical, sometimes tragic galaxy-wide sweep of writers such as John Meaney and Peter Hamilton.

The space opera is not a science-driven work. Unlike the harder stuff, quantum mechanics rarely makes more than a parenthetical and deus ex machina appearance, and relativity's time-bending constraints do not apply. Unlike the cyberpunk genre, epitomized by Neal Stephenson, it is rarely "idea driven"; McGuffins remain solidly unexplained, and society drives technology, not the other way around.

If the hero of Hard SF is a scientist, and the hero of cyberpunk is the wildcat entrepreneur, the hero of the Space Opera would be quite familiar to readers of myth and legend — the Quixotian wanderer, the deposed prince, the second son. Indeed, to the less sympathetic, the space opera can seem closer to the fantasy genre, following the usual dictum that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Which brings us to the particular flavor of opera in Matter. Over the course of nearly a dozen novels, Banks has tuned and fine-tuned his own version of the Milky Way, one crowded by a huge number of species of wildly differing technologies and abilities. In a largish corner is the Culture, a kind of humanoid amalgam of different species whose point-of-view forms the center of Banks' vision.

This far in the future, technology renders scarcity obsolete, leaving the Culture free to practice a kind of anarchistic benevolence towards less developed species. Emphasis on the anarchistic: this is no Star Trek chain-of-command, but a strange, sometimes disturbing group characterized by a near-fanatical individualism and occasional pangs of guilt. Some of Banks' most charming stories are about various offshoots of the Culture, including the strange choices made by the many sentient AIs.

Banks' prose is free-flowing and liberally dosed with a kind of cynical, post-colonial British humanism; as the Culture meddles and blunders Banks' narrators look on with a sad half-smile. The British charm appears also in his characterization of the artificially intelligent machines, who often play Jeeves to more fallible, biological, Bertie Woosters.

Meanwhile, death and suffering accumulates liberally as the usual plot drivers — competing species at the Culture's level of development, or far less advanced places that hack away with swords, guns and terribly retro fission devices, observed by grains of spy-dust that entertain or horrify the more advanced.

The wide scope of Banks' world gives him plenty of space to play out, in miniature, a number of different genre conventions. Steampunk makes something of an appearance in Matter as the central story putters along with steam engines — beneath an artificial sky created eons ago by a vastly superior race that has long-disappeared.

Matter is perhaps not Banks' best — earlier novels such as Excession or Look to Windward might be a better place for newcomers to Banks. In Matter, things drag from time to time and perhaps fifty of the five hundred pages could be cut without pain. One wishes occasionally for a North-by-Northwest cut past some of the plot development that feels a bit dutiful near the end.

But the sparkle of Banks is largely undimmed, both in the grand sweeps of plot and the dozen-page grace-notes that for a less-talented writer would be the germ of a novella. Neglected since the era of E. E. "Doc" Smith, the space opera is back. And Banks has been there all the time.

Although currently 30,000 feet over the Atlantic, Simon DeDeo is usually at home in Chicago, Illinois, where he works as an astrophysicist at the University of Chicago and moonlights as a literary critic. He last wrote for slashdot on the politics of blogging.

You can purchase Matter from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

Comments

Excession and Look to Windward?

[Malevolent Tester]

I'd have to completely disagree with the claim that these two are the best Culture novels to start with. I've read Look to Windward 3 times and I still can't work out why they go to the airsphere, and Excession all too often bears the signs of the sad sight of a grown man left to masturbate in his own literary devices.
If you haven't read a Culture book before, do yourself a favour and grab a copy of the The Player of Games, Matter (which is probably the most straightforward novel he's done) or Consider Phlebas.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[john83]

I'd have to completely disagree with the claim that these two are the best Culture novels to start with. I've read Look to Windward 3 times and I still can't work out why they go to the airsphere, and Excession all too often bears the signs of the sad sight of a grown man left to masturbate in his own literary devices.
If you haven't read a Culture book before, do yourself a favour and grab a copy of the The Player of Games, Matter (which is probably the most straightforward novel he's done) or Consider Phlebas. I would have to agree that Excession isn't a good introduction. I don't quite recall what you're referring to in Look to Windward, but it's certainly a better start than Excession. Ultimately, I think the best introduction to Banks is to start at the beginning, with Consider Phlebas.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[MutantEnemy]

I don't quite recall what you're referring to in Look to Windward

If I remember correctly, the alien bad guys were developing some kind of super-explosive, and they were doing it in this ancient artificial space habitat called the air-sphere, where huge sentient animals and other creatures lived, and there was no reason for the weapons development to be happening there.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[Gromius]

Well I sort of agree. Use of Weapons is by far the best one without a shadow of a doubt, atleast for me. Just read it if you havent. I liked Look to the Windward but The Player of Games is perhaps slightly better. Both are very good. Excession, I agree is probably the worst of the lot. Dont get me wrong, I liked it and for what it is (a more traditional scifi space opera) it does the job and I though it was fun but I definately file it under very light reading and very different to the others.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[clang_jangle]

I would have to agree that Excession isn't a good introduction.

That's encouraging then. Because I have very little time for fiction and so Excession is the only Banks novel I've read so far. I thought it was an absolutely killer story, and one of these days I'm going to make time to read more of him. Banks and Greg Bear are just the most amazing writers IMO. But then as I said, I have so little time to read fiction, so my opinion may not be worth much. :)

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[straponego]

Excession left me cold at first, because the vastly superior machine AIs dominated the story relative to the human types. Of course, humans really would be largely irrelevant in that society... I came to think of it as one of his better works.

Look to Windward did a nice job of anticipating 9/11, I thought.

One of my favorites, though, is Use of Weapons. Not because of the ideas, or the story, or even the structure (which beat Memento to the punch, BTW-- but everything that surprises people in any mainstream media has always been done decades before in SF). But Zakalwe and Skaffen-Amtiskaw are my favorite Culture characters.

I'm not finished with Matter yet, but so far I'm enjoying it more than Windward or Excession. And I think a character from Use of Weapons might have a cameo...

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[KagakuNinja]

IMO, Consider Phlebas is the weakest of the Culture novels (unless one counts Bridge or Inversions). Start with Excession, Player of Games, or Look to Windward.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading Excession is was by far the most enjoyable of banks' books. I think it is the best possible introduction. Confusing ... a little yes, but more importantly an understated, funny and absolutely fizzling and amazing read.

Excession is where I started; and ---sad to say--- is yet to be topped.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[vidarh]

I believe the point was simply to do it outside of the Culture's range of influence. The aliens in question knowing full well they had been significantly infiltrated by the Culture in the past. Large parts of the book is devoted to exactly how hard getting the explosive past the Culture would be, and so it happened to be somewhere they thought they could hide, nothing more.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[pfafrich]

Excession was one of my favourites, I really liked the idea of the ships as central character, vastly more intelligent than the humans. And the Outside Context Problem experienced by these minds really tickled me.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[Frater 219]

Excession seems to be the lightest of the Culture novels: the hyperintelligent Minds are played as a bunch of squabbling aristocrats, and the obligatory cruel aliens are so over-the-top that they come across as caricatures of fox-hunting Brits rather than the moral horror of the Azad apices in The Player of Games or the outright threat of the Idirans. When the Culture ambassador chooses to join the Affront, it comes across as a rather goofy case of "going native" rather than a morally culpable decision to choose cruelty.

But as a result, I can't imagine it would work very well as an introduction to the setting: it's almost a self-parody of the setting.

All in all, the only Culture novel I haven't yet been willing to re-read -- because it's too disturbing -- is Use of Weapons. I don't think there's a single reference anywhere in fiction that gives me the same sense of revulsion as the word "Chairmaker".

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[cruachan]

I've seen Banks talk a couple of times now - once to an SF audience and once to a more mainstream. On both occassions he's been asked which are his favourite books and the ones he'd recommend people to start with. On the mainstream side it's 'The Bridge' (which he claims is his best work), but for his SF he recommends 'Use of Weapons' - and has this long story about how he paired down the plot structure (thanks to ken MacLeod) from something unreadable to the backwards/forwards converging story structure he ended up with which he's rather proud of.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[kyb]

Quite right, The Player of Games was very good.

Excession has the least interesting back cover description I've ever seen. I don't have it to hand, so someone with it feel free to connect me, but if I recall, it went something like this "A million years ago, something appeared, it did nothing. Then it vanished. Now it's back".

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[PopeRatzo]

But then as I said, I have so little time to read fiction, so my opinion may not be worth much. :)

Friend, I don't know how old you are, but please make the time to read fiction. There are few things a person can do alone that are so rewarding.

If you live in a city and drive to work, start taking the train or bus. It gives you a nice chunk of time for reading going both ways and you'll get to work and home without getting your anxiety level up from sitting in traffic. Depending on where you live, it could also save you some money.

I hate to think of what my mental landscape would look like if it wasn't for my lifetime of reading fiction. Probably something like the ocean of night in one of Benford's books.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[LizardKing]

Ultimately, I think the best introduction to Banks is to start at the beginning, with Consider Phlebas.

If you start at the beginning, that would be "The Wasp Factory" and "Walking On Glass". His best book has got to be "Complicity", which combines the unexpected twists and nastiness of his first two books with a cracking thriller plot. In fact, Banks is at his best when he's not allowed to indulge in sci-fi too much - as someone mentioned above, it's often masturbatory shite.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[h4rm0ny]

I liked Excession as well. But I preferred "Use of Weapons". I also enjoyed Inversions, though it's very much an insiders book. My main motivation in posting a comment though is to warn people away from Feersum Injin. It's so far beneath his usual quality its hard to believe its the same author. Real crap. Consider Phlebas is passable but I don't rate it as highly as most of his work.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[john83]

Yes, that's fair. I tend to think of him as two separate authors though, purely for mental convenience. I hesitate to use the word liked, but I was engrossed by The Wasp Factory, but I suspect the different streams of books will appeal to somewhat different readerships. It would be interesting to see what the crossover is like.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[h4rm0ny]

Actually, that's Iain M. Banks. And yes, the two authors reside in the same person, but he has made a very deliberate decision to separate his two categories of writing and, in fact, does actually write a little differently between the two names. I kind of feel it's respectful to consider the two bodies of work separately. And certainly starting with the works of Iain M. Banks wont do anything to prepare you for the Culture novels of Iain Banks.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[snax]

Player of Games is by far my first choice when suggesting an intro to Iain M. Banks. It's a great overview to his Culture meta-setting that crosses most of his SF work, and has good pacing.

Note that Mr Banks publishes "mainstream" fiction under Iain Banks (to be pedantic, note there is no "M."), too, and that's every bit as fun (and more than occasionally as odd) as his SF. Try Whit, for example :)

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[clang_jangle]

You're quite right, I also feel I have benefitted from some of the fiction I have read. Trouble is, there is so much non-fiction I need to read. And I've always been one of those weird people who can sit and read textbooks as if they are novels anyway. Retirement is not so far off now, and I expect my reading list will change dramatically then.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[Net_Wakker]

Other way around dude. The culture stories are by Iain M. Banks, the other stuff by Iain Banks.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[hobbit]

Wrong way round: M is for sci-fi.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[julesh]

Because I have very little time for fiction and so Excession is the only Banks novel I've read so far. I thought it was an absolutely killer story, and one of these days I'm going to make time to read more of him.

My personal recommendation is Player of Games next. Consider Phlebas is good, but doesn't really have the same flavour as the later books.

I'd also recommend The Business, which is published under the name Iain Banks (without the M.) due to not being SF. But it's still incredibly geeky. :)

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[MutantEnemy]

Mmm - but space is very big, and one would think any old point in space would do...

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[rmerry72]

do yourself a favour and grab a copy of the The Player of Games

Ah, the first Ian Banks I picked up and I have to agree with you. Masterful. His best that I have read so far.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[eennaarbrak]

Agreed. For me Excession was like reading an IRC log, only between space ships.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[spongman]

i thought they went to the airsphere to visit the renegade blimp that hosted the meeting between the Chel and the supposed enemies of the culture - to receive, and train with, the wormhole displacer tech.

if you're going to read banks, read them from the start there's definitely an arc throughout the series, loose as it is. i still can't make up my mind which one is my favorite - they're all great in different ways.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[CmdrGravy]

I'm afraid I have to totally disagree with that I think Feersum Injun is by far and away his best Sci-Fi book but I can understand that the phonetic writing of Bascule might put people off. My advice is to persevere because the book is just amazing.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[rmstar]

That depends on how you look at it. Consider Phlebas is a thrilling action & adventure novel that is almost always on full throttle. I liked it. It is sort of an extended rock'n'roll ode to the relentless pursuit of goals.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[h4rm0ny]

*jaw drops*. Okay - I'm not meaning to criticise your tastes and if you enjoy the book then great. But the txt speak of one of the main characters was minor in comparison to the A->B->C plot and the complete lack of ending. I'd be willing to go back and have another look at it, but I'm pretty sure I gave the book away and I doubt I'd ever re-buy it. Sorry. As said - if you enjoy the book then great. It's just that I very much didn't and I wouldn't want people here to be put off from a really good author because they picked what I think is his worst work. If anyone has only read Feersum Injin by Iain M. Banks, and not liked it, I really recommend they get another of his books to try.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[CmdrGravy]

Complete lack of an ending ! The ending is brilliantly understated but brilliant nonetheless.

I agree the plot doesn't really twist or turn all that much but there is so much that is going on which is only hinted at that which you have to pretty much work out for yourself as you go along that it is totally engrossing. In addition to that the whole geography of the world takes a little time to come to terms with properly but is a fascinating idea and the characters are, Bascule especially, probably amongst the most amusing and witty Banks has created.

I'd really suggest you give it another go !

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[Sciryl Llort]

but space is very big

# it is so big, it is so small,
    it isn't really there at all,
    Is this the reason deep in our minds.
    It does not feel, it does not die, space is neither truth nor lie
    Into the void we have to travel, to find the clue that will unravel /#

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[h4rm0ny]

Okay. He's a great author. Maybe I missed something - it was a while ago. I'll take another look some time. I still strongly recommend people don't start with this though. Whether they like it or not, it's not representative of his Culture novels.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[PopeRatzo]

Retirement is not so far off now, and I expect my reading list will change dramatically then.

You and me both, podna, and don't think I'm not looking forward to it.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[Anonymous Coward]

All in all, the only Culture novel I haven't yet been willing to re-read -- because it's too disturbing -- is Use of Weapons. I don't think there's a single reference anywhere in fiction that gives me the same sense of revulsion as the word "Chairmaker".

Thanks for turning my stomach by reminding of that!

I *will* re-read this sometime, but not yet...

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[EzraSj]

My favourite Culture novel has always been Use of Weapons. Consider Phlebas was excellent as well, but Use of Weapons was moving, complicated, and continually surprising. I also think it captures the tragic element of the Culture better than Consider phlebas did, whatever that means.

His non-culture novel, "The Algebraist" was also quite good.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[AgentSmith]

OK. I'm a big fan of Iain M. Banks culture novels.
Although I actually started with Against A Dark Background.

For one of those rare times, I'm gonna karma ho'

Straight from the Wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Banks

Novels as Iain Banks

        * The Wasp Factory (1984)
        * Walking on Glass (1985)
        * The Bridge (1986)
        * Espedair Street (1987)-adapted for BBC radio in 1998 (directed by Dave Batchelor)
        * Canal Dreams (1989)
        * The Crow Road (1992)-adapted for BBC TV in 1996 (directed by Gavin Millar)
        * Complicity (1993)-filmed in 2000 (directed by Gavin Millar), retitled Retribution for its US DVD/video release
        * Whit (1995)
        * A Song of Stone (1997)
        * The Business (1999)
        * Dead Air (2002)
        * The Steep Approach to Garbadale (2007)

Novels as Iain M. Banks

Much of Banks's science fiction deals with a vast interstellar civilization, the Culture, which he has developed in some detail over the course of seven novels and a number of short stories.

        * Consider Phlebas (1987)
        * The Player of Games (1988)
        * Use of Weapons (1990)
        * Excession (1996)
        * Inversions (1998) (makes covert references to the protagonists being Culture citizens)
        * Look to Windward (2000)
        * Matter (2008)

His other, non-Culture, science fiction novels are:

        * Against a Dark Background (1993)
        * Feersum Endjinn (1994)
        * The Algebraist (2004)

Enjoy!

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[rapiddescent]

Complicity was my first introduction to iain banks - largely because it mentions the three turquoise Fiat 126 cars that sat across the road from my parents house for 15 years. For those that have not read the Iain Banks novels, they are worth a try: Dead Air was my favourite - largely because I could relate to leaving a small Scottish village and living it up in london's east end. Crow Road et al encapsulate Scottish life.

Also worth a mention is iain banks non-fiction book "Raw Spirit" about a road trip round the Malt Whisky distillers in Scotland - worth a read - not only a great insight into the distilleries themselves but also a himself and a great road trip round Scotland. Ideal if you fancy coming to scotland on holiday and visiting the highlands.

As for the SF IMB novels, I've read all of them except Matter, my favourite is probably Excession or The Algebraist.

Re:Excession and Look to Windward?

[billmarrs]

The Player of Games is my favorite Banks. It's where I started and it's where I'd recommend that anyone start.
Consider Phlebas is good too.

Matter

[techpawn]

It's a Gas... When heated past being liquid...

What happened to the days of articles having titles about the subject matter?

Re:Matter

[Tackhead]

It's a Gas... When heated past being liquid...

What happened to the days of articles having titles about the subject matter?

How so? Are you suggesting that Matter is lacking in Gravitas?

Re:Matter

[stoolpigeon]

book reviews are always titled with the title of the book. been that way for as long as I can remember.

Re:Matter

[explosivejared]

I see the title as being a blatant hole left open for a sequel to fill:

Anti-Matter- the sequel to the smash hit, Matter. Taken together, they are quite an explosive read...

Re:Matter

[techpawn]

How so? Are you suggesting that Matter is lacking in Gravitas?

I'm suggesting the article title is misleading to people interested in science, not science fiction...
Though, this is slashdot. I should of expected a slightly misleading headline.

Re:Matter

[gEvil (beta)]

I'm suggesting the article title is misleading to people interested in science, not science fiction... Though, this is slashdot. I should of expected a slightly misleading headline.

Should you of? I thought the heading of "Book Review" and first sentence of "Less known than he deserves to be among American science fiction readers is Iain M. Banks..." was a pretty good indicator that this was going to be a book review about a science fiction book titled "Matter" by an author named Iain M. Banks. But then again I might just be crazy...

Re:Matter

[Malevolent Tester]

Whooosh!

Re:Matter

[john83]

How so? Are you suggesting that Matter is lacking in Gravitas?

I'm suggesting the article title is misleading to people interested in science, not science fiction...
Though, this is slashdot. I should of expected a slightly misleading headline.

Do you really mean to say that you looked at a story called "Book Reviews: Matter" and thought, "Hey, a nice science story. I wonder if it has any string theory or zombie Feynman?"

Re:Matter

[Andy_R]

The reference to Gravitas was an in-joke. The superintelligent AI-run spaceships of the Culture are rather more playful than one might expect in a traditional space opera. Names the ships have chosend for themselves include "Zero Gravitas", "Very Little Gravitas Indeed" and in "Matter", "Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall".

Re:Matter

[techpawn]

Do you really mean to say that you looked at a story called "Book Reviews: Matter" and thought, "Hey, a nice science story. I wonder if it has any string theory or zombie Feynman?"

It didn't have "book review" tacked on it before cupcake. Glad to see the editors fixing mistakes

Re:Matter

[gEvil (beta)]

It had Book Review tacked on it when I first went to read the article and there were 0 comments.

Re:Matter

[techpawn]

t had Book Review tacked on it when I first went to read the article

Well then, I didn't see it and I iz a moron.

Re:Matter

[clang_jangle]

...should of...

AAACK my neuroses!!

Re:Matter

[makomk]

Blame Iain M Banks for choosing it as the title of his book. (I'm guessing it's a reference to a - as far as I can tell, irrelevant - digression on the nature of reality and why the universe runs on real matter, not just a simulation in some deeper level of reality. I haven't bothered to confirm this, though.)

Re:Matter

[mbone]

The Minds (controlling AI) of Culture vessels pick their own names I must admit that I admire a warship that would name itself Frank Exchange of Views (from Excession).

Re:Matter

[matfud]

A warship called "Xenophobe"

Re:Matter

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_(The_Culture%25

The end of the page explains the lack of Gravitas..

Re:Matter

[batkiwi]

Hints:
-books.slashdot.org
-"Book Reviews:"
-" Read below for the rest of Simon's review. "

Re:Matter

[Butterwaffle Biff]

Only if it's dark.

Re:Matter

[spongman]

didn't "Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall" make a cameo in Windward? it came to watch the light show if I remember correctly.

Re:Matter

[ElAurian]

All warships are eclipsed by the good ship "Killing Time".

Re:Matter

[Anonymous Coward]

I should of expected

Should HAVE. Though, this is Slashdot. I should've expected people who have no idea how English works.

A good series

[MLCT]

I have read two of the culture books, The player of games, and Consider Phlebas. Both were impressive and I would like to get caught up with the rest (two more bought but on the long term reading list). His work is very enjoyable to read, and paints pictures that are more than escapist SF. There is a lot of nuance in the political structure and its implications.

I am glad that he is still writing on the series, the review for Matter suggests an enjoyable read.

Re:A good series

[Anonymous Coward]

You really owe it to yourself to read Use of Weapons then, easily the best of the lot. If you liked those two, you'll love this one.

Re:A good series

[TheRaven64]

Player of Games and Use of Weapons are my two favourites. I took Use of Weapons on my German exchange. I was staying with an incredibly dull family who didn't organise any events and I must have read it at least four or five times in the week, and I still re-read it occasionally.

Re:A good series

[Anonymous Coward]

Iain Banks Culture series is amazing in many ways. It is one of the very few visions of the future that has mankind living side by side with super-intelligent AI's without having been enslaved by them. The AI's and people live in an open and free society where all have rights and all participate in the decisions of the society in spite of the huge advantage the AI's have in terms of raw brain power.

This is a lesson that we should study closely because we'll soon be facing these issues in the real world.

Re:A good series

[stjobe]

I was staying with an incredibly dull family who didn't organise any events

I don't get this part - is there some law in Germany against exchange students coming up with ideas or organizing events (whatever that might entail - I have no clue) themselves? Did you stay in a remote isolated village? Why did you expect your host family to organize events, and what types of events were you expecting?

I'm not trying to offend you (much), I just don't understand the attitude that your comment seemingly contains. Maybe it just triggered my "All younglings are lazy bastards who wants everything handed to them on a silver platter"-reflex. If so, I apologize in advance.

Re:A good series

[h4rm0ny]

The humans have nothing that the AI's need. There are plentiful natural resources and the humans can't compete with the AI's for technological development. Okay - that's not quite how things are portrayed in the Culture novels, but it's nonetheless accurate in the series and an interesting take on the lack of friction.

Re:A good series

[Eric the Half-a-bee]

Oh, I completely agree... The Player of Games was the novel that got me started on Mr. Banks' writing and I found a copy of Consider Phlebas in the overstock section at a bookstore in Thousand Oaks CA when I lived there. I've made every effort to read every Culture novel that has been published. They are always entertaining and just *different*.

I've also read some of his non-Culture works (but finding some of his books in the US can be difficult) and just enjoy his writing.

Re:A good series

[TheRaven64]

Straying wildly off-topic. When the student visited us, we arranged trips to see interesting things every day, such as museums and walks around the local sights (both he and I lived in fairly remote villages, yes). When I visited him, the height of entertainment for his family seemed to be clustering around the computer watching on of them play Red Alert. I managed to persuade them to play a board game one day, but that was about it.

Re:A good series

[Z00L00K]

In my opinion Banks is actually writing really good Science Fiction. You get several levels of thoughts involved, subplots that makes it life-like and a great variation of personalities. Just the personalities involved in the stories makes them really worth to read. It's not necessarily black and white. And there are some heroes, but they have their flaws as there are villains that also have some good sides.

I actually think that Banks is able to become an influential writer in his own right. When you read you don't get the feeling of passages in the writing that are there just because a certain amount of writing has to be done. Instead it is a story that's consistent. And when I see his books in the bookstore (Science Fiction Bokhandeln, that also has Matter as the SF book of the month of February.) I can see that some books are thick and some are thin. Compared to many other of the later SF authors who produces many books by the same thickness I think that there has to be a hidden message in that - or maybe that the story only was that long.

In a way I would like to rank Iain M Banks as being a possible equal to Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke, Anvil among others.

And as with many authors - If you what you write isn't disliked by someone then there are also fewer that will like what you write. But writing something must not necessarily have a direct meaning or message. Sometimes it's just a story waiting to get written.

And as I have figured out after a few books from David Weber is that Weber has went into a "template-writing" style. Each book follows a template that unfortunately breaks down a good idea of a plot into a stereotype. This doesn't seem to be the case with Banks. It's a new path in each book, even if it's the same forest.

Hamilton

[stoolpigeon]

Hamilton I dig. Gonna have to check this out. Sounds like there may be some decent similarities in content if not style.

Re:Hamilton

[Goaway]

Hamilton writes what is essentially quite juvenile pulp fiction. That's not to say it's not enjoyable, but it's essentially silly trash. Banks is much more of the high-literature variety. Comparing the two is almost impossible.

Re:Hamilton

[ObjetDart]

I'm a Hamilton fan too, although I'm kinda struggling with his latest, Dreaming The Void. Hopefully it will pick up... his biggest flaw I think is that his novels have too many characters and spend too long setting them all up and laying out all the complicated politics of the time. Only a minor gripe.

I'm not sure if you can go straight from Hamilton to Banks and expect a similar ride. The Banks Culture novels are *very* different. Actually, my favorite Banks space opera is not a Culture novel: The Alchemist. Great save the galaxy stuff, giant fleets of warships travelling at relativistic velocities and blowing each other up, exotic aliens and weaponry...yum.

In the mean time, if you like Hamilton, check out Neal Asher's "Polity" novels, very much in a similar vein and style.

Re:Hamilton

[stoolpigeon]

cool. thanks for the recommendations.

Re:Hamilton

[ObjetDart]

Sorry, whoops! Not "The Alchemist", it's "The Algebraist". Getting all my sci-fi novels mixed up.

Re:Hamilton

[stoolpigeon]

If you have the time and willingness I'd love to hear more on what you think differentiates the two. I'm not sure why you would say Hamilton is juvenile. I've thought some of his ideas about a society impacted by the removal of death and his imagination in regards to nanotech are quite impressive. I'll definitely read Banks to compare myself, but I'd never really thought so lowly of Hamilton and would love to hear what you think.

Re:Hamilton

[bughunter]

I'll have to second this. Peter F. Hamilton's space operas are more accessible, equally engrossing, and after finishing them, more rewarding.

Some may disagree, as the epic Night's Dawn trilogy ended with something of a deus ex machina, but I hold that this sort of device was foreshadowed throughout the trilogy. And regardless, it was a heck of a ride getting there; it's a kick-ass space opera, and Hamilton leaves you wanting more. The Confederation milieu is one of the best in SF, on par with those of Brin, Niven, Asimov and (dare I say) Herbert.

I recently finished the Commonwealth sagas, and while the first 500 pages took some patience for me, others may enjoy the rich character development. And by the time I finished the following 1500 pages, I was grateful I slogged thru the first bit. Hamilton ties together all of his storylines, leaving few (if any) loose ends. And he's following it up with another pair of novels in the same milieu, "The Dreaming Void" and "The Temporal Void"

I'm now reading Fallen Dragon, and it has the same slow start as Pandora's Star... I'm hoping it develops well.

I don't recommend his Greg Mandel novels... unless you like fast, predictable reads.

Not to disrespect Iain M. Banks, those of his novels that I have read, I enjoyed and would recommend. But the Culture novels can be obtuse and difficult reads. Hamilton's novels do not suffer from this.

Re:Hamilton

[stoolpigeon]

I was disappointed with the end of the Night's Dawn books - but as you say, a great ride. I thought Fallen Dragon had the same problem. I've read the Pandora's star novels and thought that they were his best work yet - just as great a ride but a much more satisfactory conclusion.
 
The reviewer brought up the comparison between Banks and Hamilton and what he mentions about abundance and interesting AI developments seems to echo themes in all the Hamilton that I've read.
 
I don't know if I'd rank Hamilton with Herbert or not. But I need to process that further. I read Dune at least once a year and it is one of my favorite books of all time. I really enjoy Hamilton but I don't know if it has that same impact. The problem is many of my favorites, like Dune are tied tightly to my childhood and it is very difficult to be objective when making comparisons.

Re:Hamilton

[fastest fascist]

Hamilton reads like a Hollywood blockbuster - gratuitous sex aplenty, big explosions, fast action. Banks has those too, but generally is more skillful and balanced in his writing. Also Hamilton seems to have issues with endings. Everything I've read from him either ends in a deus ex machina or comes damn close. "Ok, so the universe is going to shit if we don't find this supercomputer-übermind-whatever and get it to help us. Let's go do that! Hey here it is! Hello please help us? Woo, everything was fixed!" - If it's not that bad, then at least you can see the ending coming about a thousand pages away because Hamilton's idea of a plot is to have the characters come up with a plan and then execute it to the letter. Seriously, once you've read what the characters intend to do, you know what's going to happen at the end: Exactly what they say they're going to do.

That said, I do enjoy his works in the way I enjoy bubblegum, but damnit, writing huge trilogies with endings as unclimactic as Hamilton's is just sadistic.

Re:Hamilton

[UnxMully]

I'll have to second this. Peter F. Hamilton's space operas are more accessible, equally engrossing, and after finishing them, more rewarding.

Although he does suffer Stephenson's disease - he really has a hard time finishing a story. But having said that, I've enjoyed pretty much every book he's written.

Alastair Reynolds has fast become one of my favourites. The Redemption Arc series are good value, improving as they go on, and Century Rain and Pushing Ice are absolutely brilliant.

And the Takeshi Kovacs series by Richard Morgan are worth a look - the first one, Altered Carbon has been picked up, possibly to be filmed for some time in 2009.

Re:Hamilton

[stoolpigeon]

The endings have been rough. Though I think of it like a roller-coaster. I'll end up right back where I got on, but I know I'm gonna laugh like crazy on the trip around. I thought the Pandora's star books ended better than the others. I'll definitely be reading Banks to compare. It sounds like they handle some very similar themes, at least the way the reviewer describes things.
 
I thought that while Fallen Dragon also had a weak ending, there were some decent twists and turns. I didn't see it all too far out. But maybe I'm just slow that way. His films would translate well to film I think - and that may work out well for Hamilton in the end. Though they'd have to ratchet back on plot lines and characters.

Re:Hamilton

[jollyreaper]

Peter F. Hamilton is the Stephen King of scifi. The world-building and storytelling is unbelievably good but the endings are pulled out of his ass. The end of Night's Dawn was the biggest Deus Ex Machina since the Stand.

Re:Hamilton

[Den_onda_kotten]

I assume you ment "The Algebraist", Banks hasn't written any book called "The Alchemist" AFAIK. But I agree that it's an amazing book, especially the ending that totally blew my mind.

Re:Hamilton

[/ASCII]

I'm guessing you mean algebraist, not alchemist.

Re:Hamilton

[nogginthenog]

I'm 2/3rds of the way through The Naked God (no spoilers please!). Gotta say it's an engrossing trilogy. And boy these are serious *books* at 1200+ pages a piece (paperback). That's what I call a book! Normally I stuff my book for the commute to work in my coat pocket (it's winter here) but I've no chance with any of the Night's Dawn trilogy :-)

Other authors with a similar genre are Ken Mcleod and Alastair Reynolds.

I gotta say, British sci-fi is going through a great phase. Space Opera - I love it! I'm eagerly awaiting Bank's book to be published in paperback. I don't do hardback, my bookcase is crammed enough as it is.

Re:Hamilton

[cruachan]

I'd have to agree, I love Banks, and Ken MacLeod (who incidentally were at school together), and Alastair Reynold and have devoured everything they're written. Hamilton however just cannot write. Generally I find his first couple of chapters pull you in with an intriguing idea or two, but thereafter they lack characterization and read like *very* long, increasingly tedious, teenage comic books. I've waded through the start of several now and sooner or later he completely jumps the shark and I find I've better things to do with my life.

Re:Hamilton

[smallfries]

It seems to be a problem with the gere. When you are talking about post-singularity civilisations it is hard to come up with a satisfying conclusion. The Cyber Flower is another example of a crass Hamilton ending, very disappointing after the amazing story he had built up for the first 90% of the book. Contrary to what some posters are claiming in the thread above Excession was one of Bank's best Culture novels because of the way he wraps up the ending.

Re:Hamilton

[PCP]

You do of course mean The Algebraist. The Alchemist is a terrible book by Coelho (pseudo-religous waffle).

Re:Hamilton

[Gromius]

Well its nice we had this Frank Exchange of Views. Its a Reasonable Excuse that he might want something with Very Little Gravitas Indeed or even Zero Gravitas. I'm a Recent Convert and when I'm Killing Time, I might read one of his books, enjoying them I see as Youthful Indiscretion of mine.

If you disagree, you can Kiss My Ass :)

Re:Hamilton

[Goaway]

Well, first off, I do enjoy reading Hamilton. I'm not so stuck-up that I can't enjoy some entertaining trash. Explosions and spaceships make for a ripping good yarn.

But his problem is that is just about all he can write. He can write up big battles full of futuristic gadgets, and has some skill with coming up with fun futures, but those worlds are filled with hilariously flat and stereotypical characters embarking on simplistic and largely unsurprising adventures. You can tell that as soon as he stops writing about those exploding spaceships, his stories get really bogged down, because there really is nothing else there to care about.

Banks, on the other hand, can actually write. He can create realistic and engaging characters, and he can tell a story in more than a straight linear A-to-B fashion. Whatever exploding spaceships are involved are just icing on the cake, as they should be.

Re:Hamilton

[ObjetDart]

Yes of course. Yours is now the 4th post pointing out this mistake, including my own correction. :(

If this isn't evidence that Slashdot needs at least some form of primitive post editing or at least post updating feature where you can append a new line with a correction, I don't know what is. Sigh.

Preview is great and all, but obvious mistakes still slip through sometimes.

Re:Hamilton

[PCP]

I honestly did not notice the other comments, and I looked!

Re:Hamilton

[jollyreaper]

I'm not really sure how Night's Dawn could have been wrapped up. With how utterly alien the Beyonders were initially presented, the demonic toad shapes and the like, their reality seemed to clash with that image. I don't rightly know how I would have tried wrapping up a story like that but the only thing I know for certain is the way he chose was the wrong way. Pity, the rest of the books were frak-out amazing.

Re:Hamilton

[skeptictank]

Hamilton writes a 200 page plot draft and then inflates it to 2400 pages. A great writer, produces 2400 pages of material and then condenses it to 400 pages.

The Neutronium Alchemist series is a plot worthy of a single 400 page novel, no more. The pressures on a modern author of sci-fi to crank out the page count are greater than ever, but a writer with the talent of Hamilton, and he is talented, needs to say NO to the publishing house. Eventually, quality far exceeds quantity when it comes to selling books. The long term profitability of an unforgettable novel like Dune far exceed the profitability of a good, but forgettable novel like Thomas Covenant (whatever it was called, I forget).

Re:Hamilton

[bughunter]

I had a perfect way figured out, halfway through the third book. I'll try to describe it without using spoilers...

One of the storylines had already demonstrated that the Confederation had a biotech solution to enable the antagonists to get what they wanted without destroying the human race, i.e. the construction of artificial receptacles for them, which could then (conceivably) be customized at will by the end users... not that this would be a solution to the inevitable social and political complications that would arise, but at least the extinction of the human race wouldn't be quite so imminent.

The story was 90% on its way to that solution, when *wham* deus ex... but that kind of ending was telegraphed from the beginning of the first novel, imo.

Re:Hamilton

[Leperous]

I'd second this recommendation. Neal Asher is writing some of the best sci-fi around at the moment - check out 'The Skinner' (pirates fight indestructible headless align thing!) and 'Cowl' (apex of human evolution is evil and enjoys short time-traveling stints).

Peter Hamilton is indeed fun, but perhaps not for all.

Ian Banks is certainly for the more 'serious' reader and many will indeed find his writing 'obtuse', especially when he spends pages whittering on about pointless conversations between secondary characters. If you don't like him, then either try reading some of his non sci-fi stuff (such as "The Wasp Factory" or "The Bridge", both... interesting reads!) or come back in a few years.

Alastair Reynold's "Revelation Space" series is also a recommended read although I'd say that it runs out of steam towards the end. Certainly try out "Redemption Ark" or "Chasm City" if no other.

Who else... Kevin Anderson's "Seven Suns" saga started off well but has really descended into 2-page chapters in the last few books. Read the first couple of "Rama" books by the recently deceased & sorely missed Arthur C. Clarke if you haven't, and many others by him. Stephen Baxter's Xelee Sequence & Destiny's Children stories are interesting voyages as well, though some of his Manifold books are awful (especially if you don't enjoy 200 pages of monkey-rape).

Oh, and perhaps my favourite ever - the Gap series by Stephen Donaldson - but other than saying I found them riveting, I'm not sure why. Though I'd definitely suggest that anyone into sci-fi checks these out if they haven't already (and don't be put off by the name/covers).

Re:Hamilton

[sammyF70]

Ravished By The Sheer Implausibility Of That Last Statement, and because I am a Reformed Nice Guy, I can only reply : Kiss This Then! You'll Thank Me Later :P by the way : I Blame Your Mother

Re:Hamilton

[Maserati]

Oh, and perhaps my favourite ever - the Gap series by Stephen Donaldson - but other than saying I found them riveting, I'm not sure why. Though I'd definitely suggest that anyone into sci-fi checks these out if they haven't already (and don't be put off by the name/covers).

The Gap series is a pretty brutal set of books. The characters go through sheer hell, but it's a fascinating ride. And the last 150 pages of book 4 have the best space fight/chase sequence I've ever read.

Re:Hamilton

[eennaarbrak]

Did you perhaps mean The Algebraist? If so, kuddos to you!

Re:Hamilton

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "The Algebraist" you fool! The "The Alchemist" is by Paulo Coelho... wtf???

Re:Hamilton

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "The Algebraist", not "The Alchemist".

Which Iain Banks?

[gEvil (beta)]

I have to admit that I've only read one Iain M. Banks novel (Look to Windward, because for some reason my local library has a copy), but I've had Consider Phlebas and Player of Games on order with Amazon waiting for their US (re)issues for the past few months. However, I've read nearly every Iain Banks novel and have absolutely loved almost every word he's written. Actually, I'll be finishing up The Wasp Factory in the next day or so. If you aren't familiar with him, I strongly suggest you pick up something right away (most of his fiction is fairly readily available in the States; his scifi is a bit harder to come by until those reissues come out over the next few months). Absolutely amazing author.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[Andy_R]

Iain Banks and Iain M. Banks are actually the same person. He uses the M. when he's writing SciFi, and omits it when writing less futuristic fiction.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Iain Banks and Iain M. Banks are actually the same person. He uses the M. when he's writing SciFi, and omits it when writing less futuristic fiction.

Besides, the "M." gives the name way more... you know what.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[gunne]

I actually think his not so futuristic fiction is better than the pure scifi...

I recommend The Business and Espedair street, great books both of them.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[ctid]

but I've had Consider Phlebas and Player of Games on order with Amazon waiting for their US (re)issues for the past few months

Why not order the books you want from Amazon's UK store? I can heartily recommend both Consider Phlebas and The Player of Games. Use of Weapons is quite shocking with a couple of quite deranged twists. I also really enjoyed Look to Windward, which has a very sad and bittersweet quality to it - the more so having read Consider Phlebas.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[soliptic]

GP knows that:

most of his fiction is fairly readily available in the States; his scifi is a bit harder to come by I think his point was one well worth making, I'm quite into sci-fi but to be honest I find Iain Banks' books more enjoyable than Iain M. Banks'.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[soliptic]

The Business is the Banks I've most recently finished. I was massively disappointed to be honest. I found the characters unsympathetic, the plot poorly explained, and the ending completely unconvincing. IMHO :)

Espedair St I agree is great. Although when I first picked it up, it annoyed me, I gave up a few chapters in. But I tried again, and I'm glad I did, it was only another few chapters before the narrative tone sank into the background and I really enjoyed it.

My favourite of his would probably be Walking On Glass.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[Siquo]

Reading the previous comment further than the title will disclose that the writer is aware of that fact, but respects the author's decision for two names. I've only read "State of the Art" from his scifi work, but his non-sci fiction is really good. I had a gf who did her University's dissertation on him (he was flattered :) ), and she made me read every book he wrote.
To describe his non sci-fi, it borders on the strange, the magic and the weird, without being explicit about it. The Wasp Factory is definitely a good starting point.

Re:Which Iain Banks?

[Demerara]

I'd have to concur with this post and an earlier one that questioned Ian (no M) Banks' more recent non-SciFi work.

Consider Phlebas and Player of Games are Ian M. Banks' works that I keep coming back to.

One other fine one is Feersum Endjinn (spelling?).

I'd offer to reimburse anyone who bought any of these books and didn't think them excellent value for money, but I just know I'd be flooded with bogus claims from cheapskates...

Excession is better

[Front Line Assembly]

I have to completely agree. Especially excession and eg. player of games, use of weapons are much better books.
This book just seemed long winded and boring in places, and the ending was a bit sudden and boring as well.
I mean come on, I didn't buy a Banks book to read about some feudal kingdoms fighting.
And all the characters are a bit annoying as well, and the fun drone/ship stuff is quite absent.

Re:Excession is better

[mike260]

Too right. For a Culture book there wasn't nearly enough of The Culture in it.

Re:Excession is better

[john83]

Too right. For a Culture book there wasn't nearly enough of The Culture in it. Yes, not in any way like Use of Weapons or Inversions.

Re:Excession is better

[mike260]

Your point being?

Re:Excession is better

[Anonymous Coward]

His point being that this is a perfectly normal thing in a Culture novel.

Good timing!

[peacefinder]

I needed something to read to keep me out of trouble in Vegas next week.

Re:Good timing!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately, all you'll have to do is carry it around with you.

Re:Good timing!

[peacefinder]

Hey, for that I'd carry Orson Scott Card or something. Maybe even Tolkien.

Re:Good timing!

[Slicebo]

Maybe an airline strike?

Re:Good timing!

[peacefinder]

Work is sending me to a class there, so in that case I'd be in trouble for not going to Vegas. If it happened while I was there, I would of course be in trouble with my wife for not getting back on schedule. So please, no strikes!

Not a review of Matter

[WrongMonkey]

This is broad description of Banks's Culture novels, not a review of Matter. There not even any hint that the reviewer has read Matter, anyone familiar with the previous novels could have written this.

The Culture is Communistic, not Anarchistic

[Anonymous Coward]

Iain Banks has himself said in interviews that the Culture is a form of futuristic Communism, not "anarchism" or anything resembling an American version of individualistic libertarianism. The Culture is a post-scarcity civilization, but its actions are (all too often) not benevolent -- when other cultures don't agree to its influence (and rebel or go to war), it simply overwhelms them or destroys them. (The irony of this outright fascistic/imperialistic behavior is NOT lost on Banks, BTW.)

Regardless, Banks has said that he'd love to live in the Culture environment. As for me... I'd find myself on the side of the rebels.

Other Banks books

[smellsofbikes]

"The Wasp Factory" is very close to the most messed-up, disturbing book I've ever read. I personally think it's his best work.
However, if you can find it, "Raw Spirit" is a non-fiction book about him touring Scotch factories and talking about how Scotch is made and why it taste like bog and how, despite that, people keep buying every bit the little distilleries can produce. It's a good book.

Re:Other Banks books

[gEvil (beta)]

"The Wasp Factory" is very close to the most messed-up, disturbing book I've ever read. I personally think it's his best work.

It is a very very twisted book, and it was an excellent way for a new author to get himself noticed (what exactly is wrong with flame-throwering a bunch of little bunnies?). I read the Steep Approach to Garbadale a few months ago and thought it was a pretty good read. Nothing like world-domination board games, incest, and family politics to get a story going...And although many don't like Song of Stone, for some reason I go back to it and reread it every few years. It has a weird darkness that just resonates with me. *shrug*

Re:Other Banks books

[Pope]

"Raw Spirit" was an interesting book, as long as he was talking about the whisky. When he goes on his anti-Bush rants about the Gulf War 2, I lose interest quickly.

Re:Other Banks books

[StrawberryFrog]

"Song of Stone" reminds me so much of J.M Coetzee's "Waiting for the barbarians". Similar tone and use of generic setting.

Re:Other Banks books

[gEvil (beta)]

Hmm. I've seen the name of that book a few times before, but know nothing about it. Thanks, I'll check that out.

Re:Other Banks books

[ruin20]

Silly, we buy every little bit the distilleries put out cause bogs don't taste that bad!

Re:Other Banks books

[spongman]

Song of Stone is poetry in prose. On one hand it's Banks just showing off the fact that he can actually write. On the other it's a dark, tragic story of love and conflict.

Either you're being funny...

[PCM2]

...or you really don't realize that Iain M. Banks, the science fiction author, and Iain Banks, the "literary" fiction author, are one and the same. I'm posting this for the benefit of those who are really confused.

Re:Either you're being funny...

[gEvil (beta)]

Yeah, right after I hit submit I realized I probably should've put that explanation in there somewhere. A moment after that I thought "Hey, this is slashdot. Someone else will come along and point out that they are in fact one and the same."

What is matter?

[GargamelSpaceman]

What is mind? No matter.
What is matter? Never mind.

argh why do people just make up stuff on slashdot?

[nomadic]

Less known than he deserves to be among American science fiction readers is Iain M. Banks

What are you talking about? Banks is extremely prominent in US science fiction circles. Or is this that typical slashdot thing where you can't have a book review without the reviewer trying to spin it so he looks ahead of the curve?

In his native United Kingdom, Banks' work is released in hardcover at the front of bookshops; here, those seeking his science fiction work, at least, must dig down into the trade paperbacks -- and often find things out of print.

"Dig down" into the trade paperbacks? In the US trade paperbacks have apparently become the most prominent format, which I certainly don't mind. They're more portable than a hardcover and have better typeface and printing than a paperback, and last longer too. Banks' works are on the science fiction shelves, generally. Under "B." No digging required.

And he has plenty of books in print, far more than most SF authors. And some of those are in hardcover as well.

I can't agree enough...

[Stochastism]

that Iain M. Banks is one of the most underrated Sci-Fi authors out there. He does "large scale" on an unprecedented... err.. scale. From the description of worlds, to the intelligence of the minds, to the battles they fight across the galaxy.

His descriptions of Lazy Guns is one of the funniest things I've ever read (Use of Weapons or Against a Dark Backround, I can't remember now).

But his contemporary Iain "no M" Banks stuff is not nearly as good (not bad though). What is it about Sci-Fi that lets otherwise average authors become great? Is is the chance to suspend disbelief?

Or am I just biased towards Sci-Fi?

Re:I can't agree enough...

[Good Little Drone]

His descriptions of Lazy Guns is one of the funniest things I've ever read (Use of Weapons or Against a Dark Backround, I can't remember now). That was Against a Dark Background. Great book although my favorite is Player of Games with Use of Weapons second.

Re:I can't agree enough...

[batkiwi]

You are biased. His non-scifi stuff is leaps and bounds better than his SF.

Excession is still my favourite book of his, though, if not my favourite book full stop.

Re:I can't agree enough...

[Stochastism]

Well,

I enjoyed The Bridge, but that's probably because I'm an engineer ;)

Re:I can't agree enough...

[CmdrGravy]

I think you might be a little biased ( but then so might I ! ), a lot of his non Sci-Fi is fantastic and I think on balance personally prefer it to the Sci Fi.

The first of his books I ever read was the Wasp Factory and that is quite a short read but is simultaneously hilariously funny and gratuitously sick. My personal favourites though are The Crow Road and Whit both of which I absolutely love and would rank above all of his Sci Fi stuff except Feersum Enjinn.

Re:I can't agree enough...

[tygerstripes]

It was Against a Dark Background.

I agree that Banks does everything with superlative talent: the dwarfing sense of scale in Feersum Enjinn was overpowering; the incredibly funny hiatus of "Absence of Gravitas" in Look To Windward is brilliant comic relief; the sickeningly, subtly dark themes of Use Of Weapons still give me chills and make it one of my favourite books of all time.

Something I think should be said of almost all of Banks' novels, sci-fi or otherwise, is that he expertly uses mystery as an enticement. There is always some puzzle, some incongruity in the plot that is revealed spectacularly at the end, and usually brings the whole book into a new focus. Some people may find that gimmicky, but for me it's what makes his writing so addictive.

Banks is a profoundly intelligent author, whose prose, plots, pace and characters make the act of reading a significant pleasure. I'm really looking forward to Matter.

Re:I can't agree enough...

[Omni-Cognate]

the incredibly funny hiatus of "Absence of Gravitas" in Look To Windward is brilliant comic relief;

Matter has the best ship name I've seen yet - "Pure Big Mad Boat Man". If I were a General Contact Unit, that's what I'd call myself.

Re:I can't agree enough...

[Stochastism]

I'd be up for the ROU name "Immutable Destruction"

New Science

[Anonymous Coward]

What I really want to know is how is Simon DeDeo hovering at 30,000ft? Otherwise, this was one of the dumbest book reviews...I think ever posted to Slashdot. But then again who has time to read books...when we are about to win the war against Islamic Extremists ;-)

Re:New Science

[Malevolent Tester]

What I really want to know is how is Simon DeDeo hovering at 30,000ft?

Perhaps he's lacking necessary gravity.

Re:New Science

[teh kurisu]

Or perhaps a little gravitas...

The State of the Art

[MutantEnemy]

I've read all of Banks' Culture novels and still find the novella The State of the Art to be the most enjoyable; a both funny and serious look at Earth from an alien perspective. As for Matter, my enjoyment of it followed a sort of U-shaped curve. It just seemed a bit slow in the middle. I'd still recommend it, mostly because I find descriptions of ultra-high-tech societies inherently fascinating, and Matter contains quite a bit of that, mixed in with the low-tech Feudalist bits.

really, i didn't make it up

[sdedeo]

Not really, he's not -- not compared to the killer-Bs, for example, or Neal, or the "older" generations. "Extremely prominent" is a difficult thing to quantify (just as "less known than he deserves to be"), but here's one metric: Myopic Books, a used book store in Chicago with an excellent sci-fi section, currently has no Banks on the shelves -- but plenty of the more usual suspects from America.

As for relative availability in the US versus the UK: I've already covered the extent to which his sci-fi is far more celebrated in blighty, but to elaborate: it is tough (but getting easier now) to get a hold of Banks' books. Booksellers tend to class them with the usual muck and laser-slash-grunge and don't really consider him (as they should) an essential writer to stock. And, yes, there is digging required: Inversions and Look to Windward are, for example, not available on amazon (Look to Windward is "temporarily out of stock", and Inversions appears to be out of print and only available used.) This is changing now that Orbit is re-releasing the books, as you can see from a cursory glance at release dates.

In conclusion: you are wrong, and also a bit mean.

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[gEvil (beta)]

I'll back this up. Like I said in an earlier post, finding his regular fiction is fairly easy, but his scifi is fairly hard to come by. Mostly because the stuff that has been published in the US seems to get one printing and then it goes out of print. The only store I've ever found that had any of his scifi books in abundance was Small World Books in Venice, CA, and that's because they were importing the British editions.

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[sdedeo]

Another place to find Banks in the British editions (which are also quite a bit prettier in binding and cover, if you are shallow like me) is Borderlands Books in the Mission district of San Francisco (which itself sometimes feels like an outpost of the Culture where the A.I.s take the form of fixed-gear bicycles): http://www.sfstation.com/borderlands-books-a1423

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[huckamania]

If the cost of getting a used paperback is any metric, Banks is much more regarded then Card, Brin, Simmons and Tepper. I just recently bought some used books from Amazon and the Banks books were much higher priced. Some were above $30. None of the ones I bought were more then $4 with shipping.

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[blueg3]

"Myopic Books, a used book store in Chicago..."

What do they know? They're shortsighted.

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[nomadic]

Not really, he's not -- not compared to the killer-Bs, for example, or Neal, or the "older" generations. "Extremely prominent" is a difficult thing to quantify (just as "less known than he deserves to be"), but here's one metric: Myopic Books, a used book store in Chicago with an excellent sci-fi section, currently has no Banks on the shelves -- but plenty of the more usual suspects from America.

If you do a search for Iain Banks on rec.arts.sf.written or rec.arts.sf.fandom, you'll find a huge number of posts; he's been one of the most talked-about scifi writers on those groups for many years, and those groups represent a good cross-section of the SF fan community, from hardcore casual. If you do a search on the New York Times for "Iain Banks" and "Iain M. Banks" you get plenty of hits, which is not something you could say about 95% of American science fiction writers, and it is clear that the critics give Banks a lot more respect than they give to the vast majority of American science fiction authors. If you want to present anecdotal evidence I have never had any trouble whatsoever finding Iain Banks on the shelf; everytime I've gone to a bookstore and specifically looked for his works I've inevitably found several of his novels on the shelves. As for Myopic Books, if it's a used bookstore it's going to be a lousy metric; they'll have what people have sold, no more, no less. Just because at this one point they don't have any on the shelves doesn't mean much. I'm sorry if you think I'm being mean, I just think the statement in the review is not supportable.

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[Ford Prefect]

A vague comparison - in the couple of American bookshops I've been into (Borders? Barnes and Noble? Something pretty mainstream like that), I've very rarely found many Iain M. Banks books. Usually just one or two paperbacks, with stunningly awful covers - stuffed edge-on, on long shelves amongst many other authors with surnames beginning with 'B'.

By comparison, the not-particularly-large Waterstones I often go to in Derby (that's Englandland, for any Americans) has basically his entire back catalogue permanently in stock, both M and no-M. I'm wandering in tomorrow to pick up a copy of Matter, and I'm sure it'll be on fairly prominent display. Perhaps not in the windows (it's been out a month or so), but I'm sure it'll be easy to find.

Conversely, books by Stanislaw Lem are way easier to find in American bookshops (what I actually went in for!) - I've only ever managed to get 'em from Amazon in Britain. Never seen them on shelves...

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[dkf]

And, yes, there is digging required: Inversions and Look to Windward are, for example, not available on amazon (Look to Windward is "temporarily out of stock", and Inversions appears to be out of print and only available used.) So order over the internet from Amazon's UK site, who seem to have plenty of copies, findable in seconds. (Yes, Martha! You can transport SF books over international borders by post!) It costs a bit more and takes a bit longer, but I've only ever had good experiences with ordering books from overseas Amazon sites.

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[Lunzo]

I second used bookstores being a poor metric. I'm a fan of Terry Pratchett and I've never seen anything of his on the shelves of a used bookstore near where I live. But if you want to buy one of his books new, all stores here will have the latest couple of books in stock and a random selection of his older discworld books.

Summary: only go by availability in new book stores of all sizes when deciding if a book is hard to get or not.

Re:really, i didn't make it up

[Sailor Coruscant]

Could it be that the lack of Banks books in a second hand bookstore has more to do with the fact that people don't often part with his books? Just a thought from an Aussie who's never had any trouble acquiring any of them (except Against a Dark Background, which always seems to be out of stock when I realise there's a friend who hasn't read it yet).

grouchy day on /.

[sdedeo]

Well, I did try to give a sense of Banks' larger project. Since I considered Matter not his best, I tilted more towards that than plot summary (which is a pretty lazy way to write a book review after grade school.) If you are looking for hints that I've actually read the book, you can try paras eight and nine, or just take my word for it.

Re:grouchy day on /.

[WrongMonkey]

I'm not asking for a plot summary. But explaining the genre is an even lazier form of review. Especially since your audience is probably already familiar with the general conventions of various sci-fi sub-genres and perhaps even the previous works of the specific author. If someone has read even one previous Culture book, they would get absolutely no new information from reading your so-called review.

Its not enough to say you don't think its his best, you're supposed to tell WHY you think it wasn't his best! Was it not as creative? Were the characters unbelievable? Was the plot well paced? Was there not enough action? Too much action? It wouldn't even kill you to quote some passages that support your opinion.

I'm offering some criticism so you can write better reviews in the future and you accuse me of being grouchy, dismiss my complaints and tell me to take your word for it. Typical blogger hack.

Against a Dark Background

[Ground0]

I've read almost all of his books, including "The Business", "The Bridge" and other non-science fiction works. "Matter" is one of his best but I have to say "Against a Dark Background" has to be his best work. Nothing beats a lazy gun !

Re:Against a Dark Background

[DrVomact]

I've read almost all of his books, including "The Business", "The Bridge" and other non-science fiction works. "Matter" is one of his best but I have to say "Against a Dark Background" has to be his best work. Nothing beats a lazy gun!

Just about everyone who liked Against a Dark Background mentions the "lazy gun". I think I remember what it is: a weapon that weighs a bit more or less, depending on which way is up. That makes the book great? All I can recollect is that the plot was an incoherent mess. I must not be properly recollecting the lazy gun.

Re:Against a Dark Background

[matfud]

I felt that after I'd read it the first time. The second time I read it it made a lot more sense. The concept of a society that has time and again got to Culture levels of technology and then destroyed themselves because they cannot leave their solar system, gives the dark background.

Re:Against a Dark Background

[prbt]

AaDB: It WAS a mess, and at times it felt like he was just looking out of the window and writing down everything he saw. Some of the cars and houses he described were utterly contemporary.

His previous book to this latest one, The Algebraist, certainly needed a heavier-handed editor, it would've been much better for it. It still rankles with me that I forced myself through masses of syrupy ramblings for a highly unsatisfactory ending.

Re:Against a Dark Background

[TempeTerra]

Having, coincidentally, finished reading Against A Dark Background for the first time today I am also fairly unimpressed with the lazy gun. It didn't actually feature in the story except for being The Thing We Have To Find, and I think it only killed one person, accidentally, when it was being fired at random at the end of the book.

In short, it weighs three times as much when you turn it upside down and will destroy whatever you aim it at in a slapstick manner. Unless the target is something big, which will probably just explode. That's all. It's a pretty throw-away idea, and I get the feeling Banks wanted to do something with it but didn't get around to actually writing anything by the time the book was finished.

I quite enjoyed the book, but I think it should have been half as long and had a proper ending instead of almost everyone dieing. I've been working my way through the Iain M Banks books in vaguely chronological order, and some of the ideas are great and worth reading the books for on their own but there are also some silly and indulgent ones like the lazy gun (and the solipsists, in the same book) that should have been cut, or spun off into a different series or short stories.

intriguing "timelessness"

[suck_burners_rice]

While I haven't read any of Banks' works yet, being that I'm in the U.S. and therefore must dig to find them, I think this idea of Space Opera is intriguing because it could give the story a "timeless" sort of air. In the other types of SciFi, where a special effort is made to describe the technology, there is the problem that many of these ideas depend on areas of physics or chemistry that are conjured up by the author in an attempt to explain away impossibilities. For example, the impossibility of traveling quickly to the other side of the galaxy is answered by "inventing" technology that can do warp speed, hyperspace, or one of many other explanations. This is not what I call "timeless" because future developments in physics could later diminish a story's appeal, since it would no longer seem plausible. However, Space Opera appears to base itself on human (or humanoid) interactions, which is one area that will never change, no matter what kind of technology there happens to be. Interactions between people in, say, the 1700's might have been limited for the most part to their own town, and interactions today are limited to our planet. In some futuristic setting, these interactions might span a much larger area, such as the galaxy, but although the scale will have changed, the basic elements will not. This "timelessness" is what I find intriguing by this description. It will be nice to go digging someplace to find one of these books.

Re:intriguing "timelessness"

[mike260]

Hard scifi bugs me most when it rejects anything that can't be rooted in current scientific knowledge, and you get presented with civilisations who through millennia of progress have managed to modestly improve on 1990s technology.

Much more believable that advanced civs have technology beyond our understanding, so long as it's all kept consistent (which Banks does a fairly good job of).

Against a Dark Background

[Ground0]

I've read almost all of his books, including "The Business", "The Bridge" and other non-science fiction works. "Matter" is one of his best but I have to say "Against a Dark Background" has to be his best work. Nothing beats a lazy gun!

how banks sees the culture

[sdedeo]

Post-scarcity, I don't see how you'd have anything that resembled "Communism" in the standard sense, but the Guardian described the Culture as "anarcho-communism", which seems reasonable. I can't find the interview, but the one think Banks did say was that he was very irritated by those who saw the Culture as a metaphor for a kind of "future America." Banks is indeed very critical of what he sees as the kind of anarcho-capitalism tooth-and-claw of the States and my guess is that back in the real world he's a socialist.

I do agree that Banks is pretty sophisticated about his relationship to the Culture, and is tuned-in to the sort of "cultural imperialism" that the Culture's unrestrained hedonism and vaguely-Enlightenment extrapolations practice. But would you really join the Iridians?

Re:how banks sees the culture

[vidarh]

Marx postulated limited or no scarcity of at least basic necessities as a requirement for communism. In "The German Ideology" he explicitly stated that he believed in the case of a revolution in a country where there were not enough resources to satisfy basic necessities "the same shit would just happen all over again" (paraphrased), and so far every country with a self proclaimed communist rebel movement successfully overthrowing the government have satisfied that prediction to the letter.

The point being that if there is a significant amount of need, there is a far stronger drive to take from someone else, thereby creating inequalities, which result in a class based society, which according to Marx is the entire basis for the state. Without scarcity, on the other hand, he believed the need for the state disappears, and as Lenin wrote, the state will just "wither away".

In my opinion, any significant levels of scarcity will always result in rigid power structures, with varying levels of chaos depending on how complete the control of the ruling power is. That effectively precludes communism from being a viable option for a society that can't meet enough needs of it's population to make sharing without power grabs possible. Marx saw that very clearly at least by the 1870's, probably before. Unfortunately Lenin did not, and early started promoting ideas that broke with Marx in very central aspects (such as on the question of whether Russia was mature enough to handle a socialist revolution - Marx and Engels pointed to the US as the best prospect due to it's level of development - and the idea that farmers had enough in common with the proletariat to fall down on their side, which turned out not to hold when the Bolcheviks got nearly no support outside the large cities after the April revolution)

The "standard sense" of what communism means just so happens to bear no relations to it's theoretical basis.

To me, the Culture fits much better with plain Marxist communism or "council communism" than with anarcho-communism - there IS political structures and hierarchies in the Culture, such as Special Circumstances and Contact.

As for the Culture's "imperialism", to me it seems like it's described as essentially well intentioned, but often bungled, because the Culture on one hand has a genuine desire to spread it's ideas, but on the other hand often fail to understand all aspects of the culture they deal with. Contrary to the typical imperialist, though, the Culture shows remorse and a desire to correct past mistakes, and doesn't seek to expand for power - groups or individuals are free to leave the Culture at any time, and many do. The Culture spreads their culture, not an empire. It may be cultural imperialism, but in the books Banks have written so far at least, it's cultural imperialism with a good reason: They genuinely DO have more respect for the individual and for freedom than their counterparts.

The idea of a rebellion against a society like that is pretty comical. How would you do it? Nobody would stop you from taking ships and going off by yourself. Nobody would stop you from taking territory as long as you have the support of those living there. This is supported by the mention of several splinter groups, as well as the lack of a central government - you are part of the Culture by virtue of dealing with them, and exchanging ideas and resources and people with them, not by being ruled by anyone. You'd face resistance if you instead of being a "freedom fighter" become a terrorist or warlord and start trying to subject others to your whims.

Re:how banks sees the culture

[footnmouth]

Banks is indeed a socialist and one of his best friends is Ken McCleod who's Fall Quadruple is a fantastic vision of a near future (in my opinion, and I'm a classic east coast libertarian). I finished The Execution Channel last night which is left wing propoganda at it's worst but a great read and quite amusing in that it shows how people assume malevolence when it's sometimes incompetence. My first Bank's book was Excession which I read stuck on an island off the US coast on 12th->14th September 2001 when I wasn't going anywhere for obvious reasons. A struggle at first, it's a fantastic mix of cyberpunk and space opera in my opinion and a great introduction to the Culturverse, and with a "WOW" ending and that really puts their power into perspective. The Algebraist was similar - though not a Culture novel, once the initial shock is over it's a great, great Space Opera. The concept of rHuman and aHuman is played out well across a cruel universe. Some notes on the Culture by Iain M Banks

Banks is not a good author

[Stevecrox]

Banks does not get front place in UK bookshops, well, not in any WH Smith or Waterstones in the south west. He generally gets his own shelf and you'll only see people who've never read him pick up one of his books and its rare to see them make the same mistake twice.

His books fail to give any real backstory or context, which can be ok however characters will make decisions based on things you don't know about and aren't told. He takes little effort to bring the reader into the universe he's writing on and once I had the misfortune of picking up a book in the middle of a series and he made no attempt to explain anything, even after making the attempt to pick up the first book in the series things made little sense.

You want a good British author read Terry Pratchett or Philip Pullman, Banks can look inviting because everyone of his books has words like "Times best seller" and "Winner of Award xyz" don't fall for it.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[gnarlyhotep]

His books fail to give any real backstory or context

This is the biggest problem, in my estimation. I'd love to read his Culture books (have heard fantastic things about them) but have no idea where to start. I did pick up one (forget the title offhand) and got about halfway through before I had to put it down. Brilliantly written, incredible scifi, but completely out of my depth and unable to parse it due to a lack of background. Much as I revile the numbered series fad that sweeps scifi and fantasy, in this case it would be incredibly helpful to have something of a starting point. The books just don't seem well suited to picking up whatever one hits your fancy.

For stand alone books, however, I found Feersum Endjin to be incredible.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[john83]

His books fail to give any real backstory or context

This is the biggest problem, in my estimation. I'd love to read his Culture books (have heard fantastic things about them) but have no idea where to start. I did pick up one (forget the title offhand) and got about halfway through before I had to put it down. Brilliantly written, incredible scifi, but completely out of my depth and unable to parse it due to a lack of background. Much as I revile the numbered series fad that sweeps scifi and fantasy, in this case it would be incredibly helpful to have something of a starting point. The books just don't seem well suited to picking up whatever one hits your fancy.

For stand alone books, however, I found Feersum Endjin to be incredible.

Banks can be a bit tough to follow - Use of Weapons has two threads, one going forwards in time and one going backwards, in alternating chapters. Feersum Endjin has four threads, alternating chapters, written in various voices, one of them the diary of someone who writes in the densest txtspk I've ever seen. Banks is rarely straightforward, and I've generally found that a little perseverance is required before it becomes clear what the hell is going on, but this is true to varying extents of a lot of sci-fi. Frankly though, if you followed and enjoyed Feersum Endjin, you'll have no trouble with his other books.

Maybe the gentlest start then would be State of the Art, a hundred page novella about a Culture ship in orbit over modern earth, and its crew, as they decide whether to meddle with us, and if so, how much. Starting at the beginning with Consider Phlebas isn't a bad idea, though some people argue that The Player of Games is best - probably it's the easiest to follow from the beginning, and it's fairly expository about the Culture too.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[vidarh]

I've seen him get plenty of good placements in bookstores in London.

As for his lack of explanations, I really don't agree. Part of the appeal is that you're being dropped in the middle of a completely alien environment, and that is often the predicament his characters find themselves in too - you have to learn about the environment together with the character, and constantly have your assumptions challenged.

Newsflash: In the real world people makes decisions about things you don't know about and aren't told about all the time, and you just have to do your best to understand what's going on.

If you want everything served on a platter in nice, easily digestable chunks, then he's probably not for you. As much as I love Terry Pratchett, his books are mostly light entertainment. They are great light entertainment, but they don't try to be much more. Banks books are far more complex in what they are presenting to you, and yes they take more effort.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[LazyBoy]

As for his lack of explanations, I really don't agree. Part of the appeal is that you're being dropped in the middle of a completely alien environment, and that is often the predicament his characters find themselves in too - you have to learn about the environment together with the character, and constantly have your assumptions challenged.

Exactly! This is what I love about this kind of SF. You're figuring out the universe while you're figuring out the characters and their motivations.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[sammyF70]

Are you sure you're not mistaking him for somebody else?

once I had the misfortune of picking up a book in the middle of a series and he made no attempt to explain anything I thought I had read ALL of Iain Banks' Scifi books, and I can't recall any serie. "The Culture" is not a serie per se, but a setting in which most of his scifi books take place.
So, which serie was it you stumbled into?

By the way, if you had trouble with Iain Banks, don't even bother to start Dan Simmon's Illium. It requires that you have at least basic knowledge of Marcel Proust's "A la recherche du temps perdu" and of Homer's (the greek author, not the Simpsons character) "Iliad" and "Odissey".

Re:Banks is not a good author

[theanorak]

Earlier posters have already refuted the "does not get front place" line, so I'll just take issue with rest...

It's true that he doesn't give a complete history of the culture in each novel, but why would he? I joined mid-flow and it's fairly straightforward to infer the general state of affairs. Read other novels and you pick up the granular details, if you like what you read, but it's not necessary.

I'm also not sure how you can say "if you want a good British author read Terry Pratchett..." - you might as well say Jilly Cooper or Will Self. Good authors? Arguably. Remotely related to Iain M. Banks's work? Nope. You might prefer in-jokery in a fantasy world to space opera, but that doesn't necessarily make one author better than another.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[Serious Callers Only]

He generally gets his own shelf and you'll only see people who've never read him pick up one of his books and its rare to see them make the same mistake twice.

I'm curious as to how you know this?

While his books might take a little more effort than most run of the mill sci-fi, I think they're worth it because of the thought that goes into constructing the back story and motivations of the characters - also, which is unusual in sci-fi, the characters are not exclusively male proxies for the author, there's even thinking women and (gasp) thinking machines. If you're not willing to put the effort in though, they won't be rewarding.

You want a good British author read Terry Pratchett or Philip Pullman

Philip Pullman is definitely worth a read. Terry Pratchett is not even in the same league - he should have stopped after about 3 of those Ringworld novels, and frankly the writing is trash, vaguely amusing perhaps but not something I'd recommend someone else pick up, and certainly not a good representation of British writing. What about Ian McEwan, Rachel Seiffert, Margaret Atwood, Graham Swift etc. ?

Re:Banks is not a good author

[meringuoid]

Terry Pratchett is not even in the same league - he should have stopped after about 3 of those Ringworld novels

You misspelled 'Larry Niven', and he should have stopped after two. Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, on the other hand, didn't get worth reading till somewhere around Mort, which was the fourth book.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[Serious Callers Only]

Sorry I meant Discworld, not ringworld; I was talking about Terry Pratchett, whom I don't rate highly I'm afraid.

Re:Banks is not a good author

[Stevecrox]

Authors will generally take the time to briefly cover a previous event I've been able to read Terry Goodkinds books out of order (its been hard to get them all) and understand the storyline and plot quite easily because when Goodkind has a character take an action based on previous experience (in another book) he will use a small paragraph to give a description of that past event, most authors do this.

You can pick up the latest Anne Macathry book and understand what's going on, not well enough to understand all of the nuances but well enough to enjoy the book, Asimov's foundation series does the same thing.

Bank's writing style uses minimal description, this writing style can work however he often fails to elaborate things and in later books he won't reference past things and will just expect the reader to know. I'm no writer but the difference could be shown thus:

Most Authors:
Sam was couldn't believe it, it was the Starship Sen, the vessel which had destroyed his homeworld. He had fought it years before in the Galaxy war and lost, his loss had lead to the fall of the empire and his current position. He had to hold the line and stop the invaders before his new home was lost as well.

Banks
Sam couldn't believe it, it was the Sen. He knew he had to hold the line and stop the invaders before they destroyed his new home.


You only have to give that small amount of back story once and suddenly the reader knows a little bit about the people attacking, why Sam is so desperate to stop them, something about how Sam had gotten into his current position and a little bit about the current situation. Banks fails to do this and it makes his books difficult to read, this back referencing can be done to the detriment of the book (Robert Jordan's books suffer massively by this) and I agree sometimes a minimalist approach to description can make some very interesting books (Rankin's books spring to mind).

I've always thought the genre of a book was unimportant and will read different genres as long as the authors a good one. If your only ever going to tie yourself down to one genre you are going to miss so much. I'd rather know a great author than the next best author in genre xyz... Wouldn't you?

anyone who thinks there hasn't been space opera

[Anonymous Coward]

...hasn't been paying the fuck attention. I guess Heinlein never existed? Bujold? Hiroyuki Morioka? The Dune books? Hell, Star Trek, Dr. Who, Firefly, even Farscape -- TV is rife with space opera. If you're going to make a sci-fi proclamation on a nerd site, you'd better check your shit, asshole. Even if you're desperately trying to tie a whining post-singularity masturbator onto the coattails of a real sci fi author.

an error of mine

[sdedeo]

Hello all -- thanks for writing in with comments on the review; I'll try to respond to those I think I should.

One error I made in this review was to say that Benford's Timescape was published in the 1990s. This is incorrect: it was actually published in 1980 (I believe my mistake stemmed from my having read it in the 1990s in a new edition at the time.) Trying to fit sci-fi (or anything else) into neat decades is pretty tricky even if it does provide a satisfactory narrative device. One interesting note is that steampunk, which I think most of us think of as a Gibson/Sterling 1990s thing, actually had its birth wayyy back in the 1960s, with Pavane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavane_(novel) -- a really fantastic read that doesn't "date" at all despite its release during the Summer of Love.

Re:an error of mine

[vidarh]

Pavane is ok, but I really didn't care for the ending. Talk about deus ex machina.... I think it's one of those books that I'd like better as a movie, as long as it got visuals to go with the descriptions. I could imaged Terry Gilliam doing a fantastic job with something like Pavane, for example.

Re:an error of mine

[julesh]

One error I made in this review was to say that Benford's Timescape was published in the 1990s. This is incorrect: it was actually published in 1980

Well, yes, but frankly next to the thesis that Banks's culture novels fit into some kind of 2000s revival of space opera (overlooking the fact that he's been publishing them steadily since 1987), it kind-of fades into insignificance. ;)

possibly an oxbridge thing

[sdedeo]

I've seen his releases get front-alcove treatment in the Waterstones in Oxford, and Heffers' in Cambridge, but perhaps that's because they know their nerds. I do agree, in lesser doses, that the problems you describe are the failure modes of Banks' sci-fi -- but I disagree that it happens as often as you suggest.

Re:possibly an oxbridge thing

[LazyBoy]

I've also seen poster advertisements for his books in the London tube stations.
I can't think of any SF book advertisements in the states outside SF mags.
(excepting Harry Potter)

i agree

[sdedeo]

This is probably the advantage of the space-opera. It's also a failing, because sci-fi's appeal does rest on the notion of constraint -- either by physical law, or by alterno-universe physical law -- and a lazy space opera writer can just go off the deep end, continually modifying physics whenever the plot gets too tangled (viz., all of Star Trek.) If I had to stick to only one sub-genre, it might be the Neal Stephenson niche, where physics takes a backseat to sociology, but the constraints are still strongly in place and one still has that "parlor game" feel at the right moments.

something I had trouble with

[jollyreaper]

Maybe the books are showing their age but the prevalence of Star Trek aliens really confused me. With all the talk of "humans," I assumed that the Culture was supposed to be our far-off future, and all of the Trek aliens were just diverged humans, all tracing ancestry back to Earth. Nope! These are true Star Trek aliens, all evolving on distant worlds to look like us with some bumpy foreheads. There's mention made of non-hominid lifeforms but the ones that look like each other tend to congregate together in the Culture, thus we end up seeing all the humies.

I can excuse this sort of thing in televised scifi because shit, true alien costs money! Bumpy foreheads are much cheaper. I just am less tolerant when there's no need for sticking with Trek aliens and yet they do (Mass Effect). Ok, maybe we can pretend it would cost them more money to do something truly alien. But in prose? Shit, there's no reason not to!

I find the Culture novels somewhat frustrating, a mix of good and bad ideas. I really enjoy the premise, though. Use of Weapons was strange but the Chairmaker's ultimate weapon was suitably creepy.

Re:something I had trouble with

[Anonymous Coward]

I can excuse this sort of thing in televised scifi because shit, true alien costs money! Bumpy foreheads are much cheaper. I just am less tolerant when there's no need for sticking with Trek aliens and yet they do (Mass Effect). Ok, maybe we can pretend it would cost them more money to do something truly alien. But in prose? Shit, there's no reason not to!

Or it might be due to the reasoning that many scientists have that other sufficiently civilized lifeforms out there may have evolved along the same paths. That is, the same advantages that humans had over other lifeforms on Earth (opposable digits, upright posture, etc) were the same advantages that other alien species had over their competition.

Re:something I had trouble with

[vidarh]

There are plenty of non-hominid aliens mentioned and also described at great length in several of his books.

It makes sense, though, that being relatively close in appearance would share the most, and so be more likely to share habitats. Trying to accommodate a lot of different requirements for pressure, breathable atmosphere etc. would be impractical at best. Look to Windward contains a lot of descriptions about the complexities for different species that are even roughly of the same shape and requirements to interact, as well as prominently featuring some of the weirdest non-humanoid aliens so far - the Behemothaurs (huge sentient dirigibles) and the entire ecology around them.

But for that matter we have no basis for even knowing whether or not aliens will be particularly diverse. It's perfectly possible that a biped humanoid shape is so close to ideal for planets that can sustain life that we'll see it over and over again if we come across aliens. We just don't know, and so I find it a perfectly valid idea to build into a fictional universe.

Re:something I had trouble with

[makomk]

I think it's just a convenient plot device and aid to social stability; there are real non-humanoid aliens, but they're, well, alien and don't really fit into the Culture. Of course, as it happens one of the characters in this book is only human in a mental and historical sense, having had himself transformed into a bizzare cross between a fence and a bush because he felt constrained by being human...

Re:something I had trouble with

[jollyreaper]

But for that matter we have no basis for even knowing whether or not aliens will be particularly diverse. It's perfectly possible that a biped humanoid shape is so close to ideal for planets that can sustain life that we'll see it over and over again if we come across aliens. We just don't know, and so I find it a perfectly valid idea to build into a fictional universe. Well, it certainly is tough to come up with ideas. Take your wildest, craziest aliens from movies, fiction, etc, they're all humanoid. Geiger's Alien, predator, the majority of the Star Wars aliens, etc, two arms, two legs, etc. If we look back at our evolutionary history, tetrapods won out only by luck, there were plenty of other viable designs that got snuffed in the mass extinctions.

Of course, the bigger problem of writing true aliens is that truly alien thought processes would be impossible for us to relate to, communicate with, etc. While that can be interesting if the whole point of the story is dealing with the truly alien, such a character would make for a terrible science officer on your space opera patrol ship, thus we end up with bumpy forehead aliens.

Re:something I had trouble with

[Oktober Sunset]

well, with complete mastery over genetics and bioengineering, members of the culture have chosen to be in all kinds of different forms, and change form pretty easily. being some sort of floating gas bag, or a giant yeti-thing is generally impractical and looses novelty eventually, human shape is just practical.

Re:something I had trouble with

[sammyF70]

just to take your example, there is at least ONE non humanoid alien in Use of Weapons. It ends up snoring on a tree after spending the night in a drinking binge with Zalakwe.
As others have pointed out : there are more, they just aren't proeminently displayed (generally)

What about his grandmother Rosie?

[Pvt_Waldo]

Who could forget, "Only a Factory Girl" or "By Honor Bound"? She may have been only a factory worker, but she had the pride of the Ormskirks!

Re:What about his grandmother Rosie?

[Pvt_Waldo]

Oh fine - no P. G. Wodehouse fans out there I guess...

from a blogger hack to a comment troll

[sdedeo]

I provide what I think is a relatively interesting historiography of sci-fi subgenres and try to suggest that space opera, after years of taking a sideline to other projects, might be ready to capture the attention of the average geek. I try to put things in a larger context because my guess is that most /. readers haven't read Banks, and generally consider space opera to be a bit beneath their paygrade.

In response, you demand a totally different product, a review of the book for someone who already has read Banks' culture novels. That's fine, but that's not the review I wanted to write. Then you as much as accuse me of deception -- that I never actually read the book -- and when I bite back, you get huffy and claim that you were simply providing kind guidance and that if I don't listen to you I will be doomed to write crappy reviews.

I, blogger hack, salute you, friend and comrade comment troll!

amazon.co.uk

[sunderland56]

In his native United Kingdom, Banks' work is released in hardcover at the front of bookshops; here, those seeking his science fiction work, at least, must dig down into the trade paperbacks -- and often find things out of print.

Consider just ordering the UK edition from amazon.co.uk. I've found most titles arrive in less than a week, and prices are extremely comparable to buying in a bookshop in the USA.

Re:amazon.co.uk

[julesh]

Consider just ordering the UK edition from amazon.co.uk. I've found most titles arrive in less than a week, and prices are extremely comparable to buying in a bookshop in the USA.

Really? I've not done the comparison on hardcovers before, but looking at paperback prices suggests to me that the average US edition is about 2/3rds the price of the equivalent UK one. My local bookshop charges $1 -> £1 for US imported books, and still they come out no more expensive than local ones, and often cheaper.

Banks -- Not for everyone.

[Remus Shepherd]

From the summary: "The space opera is not a science-driven work."

This is an understatement, and should be underlined and in bold when discussing Iain M. Banks. Those expecting science fiction in the mode of Heinlein, Asimov, or Clarke will not enjoy Iain Banks' work.

Banks' novels are best described as fantasy stories set in space, with characters that may have alien appearances but who act like humans in rubber suits. He makes no attempt to suspend the readers' disbelief or justify his worldbuilding. And he often writes scenes or entire novels that are blatantly experimental, which may be mind-expanding for some readers but those with more literary experience find these amateurish excursions rather tedious.

In short, you either love or hate Iain M. Banks novels. He is not for everyone.

Re:Banks -- Not for everyone.

[Khelder]

Hear, hear. I completely agree that his books are not for all SF/fantasy fans. I don't know if they're representative of his work or not, but I was very unimpressed with the two I read: Use of Weapons and Feersum Endjinn. I think I just didn't get the former, since I kept wondering when it would get interesting and the end just left me saying "huh?" The latter was entertaining, but harder to understand than it needed to be, and far from the level of sophistication I would expect based on the review here and most of the comments.

Anyway, if you like Banks, cool. If you haven't read his stuff, I would recommend borrowing rather than buying your first one.

Banks has shown us the bottom of his bag of tricks

[OnanTheBarbarian]

Iain M. Banks used to be one of my favorite authors, and I still really like the earlier SF (Consider Phlebas, Player of Games, Use of Weapons, Against a Dark Background). But there's been a terrible feeling of sameness and lack of inspiration about the recent books. I can't say I really enjoy the parts which seem to be Banks trying to be Greg Bear (the tedious hard-SF of Excession and much of Matter spring to mind). But it's his obsession with recycling the same plot elements that really grates.

There's only so many times that the 'collision between the Culture and some ridiculously primitive society that it could wipe out in a millisecond' story needs to be told. OK, we get it, we get it, the Culture's interventions need to be super-subtle because that's the right way to bring along backwards civilizations (a rather ahistorical idea, but hey, it's his universe to play with).
Take a ultra-cool Special Circumstances agent with some gnarly personal skeletons in the closet, give them a magical 'knife missile', and send them to some backwater to alternately fret about how they shouldn't intervene and eventually decide do to so (usually lots of lovingly described payback for equally lovingly described horrible torture and the like; this seems to be a rather ugly fixation of Banks that Richard Morgan appears to have decided to follow in full). We've read it before, really.

I am not sure whether this repeated motif is a clumsy metaphor for something about the real world (e.g. the collision between a possible near future super-enlightened 1st world - or at least, the West on one of its better days - and, well, everywhere else). If it is, it's pretty bloody silly. If it's not, it's a pretty strange motif to keep returning to.

Perhaps if we all chipped in, we could send Iain down to Africa and hire someone to kidnap a serial human rights abuser that he could beat up. It would be theraputic for him, and on his return, maybe he could write a new book. Maybe a Culture novel about the bloody Culture, for a change.

Huh?

[roc97007]

> In his native United Kingdom, Banks' work is released in hardcover at the front of bookshops; here, those seeking his science fiction work, at least, must dig down into the trade paperbacks -- and often find things out of print.

Really? I saw Matter on the shelf at Barnes and Noble this very day when I was picking up an order over lunch in Beaverton, Oregon. If we have it prominently displayed here, it should be pretty much everywhere. I'm thinking of picking it up this weekend.

Re:Huh?

[2sheds]

Isn't that what the author was saying - with Matter, Banks' publishers are making an effort to introduce him to the American market?

Anyway, I can heartily recommend him. I've just about finished Matter, and good though it is it hasn't gripped me like some of his other books. I'd recommend Player of Games, Use of Weapons or Excession first if you're new to him.

Re:Huh?

[roc97007]

> Isn't that what the author was saying - with Matter, Banks' publishers are making an effort to introduce him to the American market?

Ah, ok. Well, if so it seems to have worked.

> Anyway, I can heartily recommend him. I've just about finished Matter, and good though it is it hasn't gripped me like some of his other books. I'd recommend Player of Games, Use of Weapons or Excession first if you're new to him.

Thanks, I've read them all. I think Use of Weapons affected me the most. That was one ghastly punch-line.

Although admittedly, I borrowed the first two from a friend, I bought the third off the shelf at a local book store in 1998. It was not my impression that Banks' novels were largely unavailable in the US. But I'm only one data point.

rarity, not regard

[sdedeo]

I think is the reason for the high prices! A copy of Paradise Lost is pretty cheap...

Re:rarity, not regard

[huckamania]

Rarity alone can not explain this. If the books were ill-regarded and rare, they would not be over $100 for a hardcover. Especially since they are about to be reprinted.

Still, believe what you want.

pushing past my paygrade

[sdedeo]

I bow to your superior knowledge of Marx-on-surplus (although I do believe that he considered the beginning of communism to be the collapse of capitalism under the weight of its own -- self-enforced -- scarcities?)

Not to get too geeky about it -- Special Circumstances and Contact are all "ad hoc" and spontaneous; their resources come not from a top-down appropriation or restriction, but just from the fact that some of the cleverest, weirdest and oldest of the people in the society happen to want to join in.

As for Cultural Imperialism "with a good reason" -- that's a rather American attitude (one I share, I should note.) Banks is much more, I think, nervous about the idea, and it comes out here and there in the novels.

Re:pushing past my paygrade

[rmerry72]

As for Cultural Imperialism "with a good reason" -- that's a rather American attitude (one I share, I should note.)

Straying further off-topic I know, but I don't believe the American attitude is similar to Cultural Imperialism at all. American policy since the Cold War has been to spread democracy - by force if necessary - because the powers that be believe that democracies are generally more stable and less of a threat to the American way of life. They are simply removing the perceived threat of a single power strand for each country. This makes it easier to forcee problems and revolution because several million people have to get together to "approve" such policy. In contrast, a single leader can just say "blow 'em up" with no fear or recourse.

Forcing democracy on other cultures for this reason is akin to employing castration as way of avoiding a population explosion. The ends NEVER justify the means.

Ask yourself this: What would happen if the Iraqi people voted in a refferendum to tear up any constitution and go back to a dictorial system of government? Do the people have that right? What if Cuba does the same? Would the Americans allow that? Would they allow the people to choose a totalitarian government?

Slight correction: the Culture isn't "far future"

[wjr]

The description of the Culture as "far future" isn't correct - it's intended to be roughly contemporary with the present time, as evidenced by "State of the Art" and some of the timelines given in Consider Phlebas. "Technologically advanced" is a more accurate description.

This incident of nitpickery has been brought to you by the letters "E" and "Schwa" and the number needle-nardle-noo.

crap!

[jsong]

c'mon, fucking review the shit already, dumbass!

Re:Banks has shown us the bottom of his bag of tri

[vidarh]

I frankly don't recognize your description in any of his books. Maybe in Use of Weapons.

And frankly, they are all "about the Culture". Often the plot will be pushed aside for him to go into great deals of details about some aspect of the Culture. Look to Windward, for example, blatantly used various non-events on the Masaq Orbital as an excuse for describing aspects of life in the Culture, the orbitals and the AI minds. Excession was 90% expository about the Culture and 10% moving the plot forward. The trickiest things for Banks seems to be to get the balance spot on - I love reading the material about the Culture, but the plot needs to move forward too.

The problem you've run into seems to be that writing purely about the Culture would be far harder - utopia's get boring. In fact, in all the material about the Culture in Look to Windward a lot of it is devoted exactly to how people in the Culture go to great deals of length to try to create excitement, even to the point of giving up safety and purposefully creating dangers for themselves. The most exciting stories in that kind of environment are likely to be found in how it clashes with something else.

Besides I get the feeling that Banks really would prefer to write books that are "all Culture" but holds back exactly because it's an environment that'd be extremely hard to write an exciting story about without compromising. It's "too perfect" and he either needs to introduce flaws or have someone else (other aliens) provide the flaws.

There are seeds, though, and he could probably write a book about a conspiracy inside the Culture, or about one of the splinter groups.

The Culture is neither human or far in our future

[mbone]

The Culture is not human, and most of the Culture novels occur in our (human) past.

Consider 'Consider Phlebas'

[Requiem18th]

'Consider Phlebas' is the postmodern pirate tale complete with the Spanish Inquisition and a lost Paradise island filled with Cannibals.

  It was also the book that though me that there are things that are impossible to translate to translate into a movie and not because of budget/length/audience constraints but because it's simply impossible to capture in film. Although it could be done if you make a *very, very intensive* use of voice over narration, but its awkward to do it compared to a book where it is expected.

Stuck in Matter

[DrVomact]

I'm perhaps a quarter of the way through Matter, so this review was timely for me (and thanks for not including spoilers). "Not his best", you say? Regrettably, that's the comment I'd have for just about anything Banks has written in the last 10 years. "Not bad" would also be apt.

Up to this point of Matter, my reaction can be characterized as "trying to remember why I ever liked this author so much". The Banks I remember from Use of Weapons, Player of Games, and Consider Phlebas (to concentrate just on the space opera) had a razor wit, a well-developed sense of irony, and a deft command of the story-teller's craft. None of these qualities is evident in Matter: so far, it has been a ponderous, boring slog through very familiar territory. Perhaps the worst thing about Matter is its long-windedness. Had editors not become extinct some time in the latter decade or so of the twentieth century, perhaps someone could have given Mr. Banks a hand by drawing fat red lines through about 75% of the narrative and dialogue of this book. One heavy concentration of red lines would be drawn through the portion of the book in which a character the reader knows to be a hypocritical (but egregiously loquacious) jackal makes an extended funeral oration for one of his victims. One sensible way for an author to handle this would be to cite the opening phrases, then say something like, "...and the loquacious, hypocritical jackal went on in this vein for several hours". Instead, Mr. Banks subjects the reader to the entire boring speech. There's no excuse for that, and no forgiveness.

It doesn't get better, you say. Hmm. Don't know if I am going to make it. Ironically, when I received the book (from Brit Amazon), I rejoiced at how thick it was. Some early reviews had claimed that Matter was a return to form for Banks; I really wanted to like this book.

Speaking of good Banks, only one person mentioned Inversions. It's my personal favorite, because of its extreme subtlety; the book demands a lot of work from the reader; it is not frothy reading. The Bridge is also one of his best, I think—though it's hard to pigeon-hole, it's definitely not space opera.

Speaking of which

[cordsie]

I have read quite a few of his books, and mostly enjoy them, especially the culture ones. Some are better than others, and personally I found 'The Player of Games' and 'Excession' to be the most enjoyable in terms of page turners.

Speaking of UK Sci-Fi authors, do yourself a favour and look up Steven Baxter if you've never heard of him. He's written dozens of intelligent, entertaining, and highly-engaging stories involving multitudes of subjects. He has a talent for being able to tie together events that span millions of years and many distinct time periods while keeping them all relevant to the story. I'd really place him firmly in the top tier of Sci-Fi authors writing today.

In particular, I'd recommend looking into the Destiny's Children series (starting with 'Coalescent') and 'Evolution'. Highly recommended.

Interesting mix...

[Eth1csGrad1ent]

I loved Against a Dark Backround (non Culture) and Excession (Culture) and a number of other Culture books that I can't remember the names of, but did anyone here ever actually get through Feersum Endjin ?

I didn't. Tried a couple of times now, due to some rave reviews, but I just can't get past the inlish yoosed in da bok. vary dificlt to rede.

Its sometimes hard to consider that these books are all from the same author, given the differences in complexity and writing style.

(spoilers) This isn't "Windward II"...

[argent]

She's not an "ultra cool SC agent", she's still in training, and right up to almost the very end she's mostly worried about screwing up and not being able to get back into SC. All the way back to the Shellworld she's seeing SC monitors everywhere... including in the Peace Faction.

Matter is a comedy of errors, with everyone thinking that everyone else was more cool and sophisticated and capable than they really were, trusting the wrong people and the wrong rumors, and skeptical about the wrong ones. The Oct cannoning up was no more a distraction... they were taken by surprise by the Iln as much as anyone... but without it Djan would have arrived thoroughly demilitarized, and likely too late. What the Aultridia were trying to tell Oramen, we never find out... but there's some indications that they knew something about the Iln and that's why they had the monks holding off the dig. Without tyl Loesp none of this would have happened, but he had no idea what was going on and really no clue that anything WAS going on until he got to the Boiling Sea.

Rather than being padded, I was wishing there was MORE background and more material all the way through.

In a lot of ways this reminded me more of Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep than anything I've read by Banks.

Disappointing

[bradjs]

I found Banks novels very disappointing. The book Use Of Weapons in particular came from nowhere, went nowhere and achieved nothing. If you want far more interesting Science Fiction, try Richard Morgan- Any book he has written except Market Forces. Woken Furies and Altered Carbon in particular stand out as excellent.

Let's not forget Alastair Reynolds

[Static11]

Another excellent scifi author from the UK, Alastair Reynolds, is beyond compare. He writes space opera with not only a cyberpunk feel, but a gritty hard SF feel. The Revelation Space universe is every bit as rewarding as the Culture universe.

I only mention this because if Iain Banks is off the radar in American bookshops, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Reynolds is too.

Reveiw auther seems not read Banks books much

[S3D]

For such a lengthy review author have surprisingly poor knowledge of Banks "Culture" series.

This far in the future, technology renders scarcity obsolete, leaving the Culture free to practice a kind of anarchistic benevolence towards less developed species.

"Culture" series is not about "our" human future. According to Banks lore Culture exists in some corner of our galaxy simultaneously with us, and we are one of the "less developed species". In the "State of the Arts" short story collection Culture ship is visiting our contemporary Earth.

Warning

[mustafap]

It has a disappointing ending

In a word RE-READABLE

[GSVNoFixedAbode]

Most of my SF book collection doesn't get a second round, with the exception of Banks (and a small number of others). Like others I'd say start with 'Player of Games', 'Consider Phlebas', 'Excession', or for something a little darker 'Use of Weapons'. I find the first read through is rushed just to finish the fast-paced parts, and a 2nd or 3rd read to savour some of the imagery and situational positions that Banks as assembled. The humour is distinctly British as well! "Matter" hasn't quite got the snorts of humour that some of the other books had, but the imagery and plotlines are right up there.

Needs more space

[mist]

A common style of Banks' novels is to have multiple threads running through the books which merge towards the last 1/3rd of the book. In this, Matter is no exception. I found the book to be a very enjoyable and fulfilling read, but only after I had slugged through the mid-section.

I think it would have been nicer and would have maintained a faster pace had it concentrated on and filled-out the culture side more, whilst skipping some of the sub-plots in the "historic" side (the mother of the Prince Regeant, for example, which really I think was just a device to move him to another setting.)

In the engaging parts of this book though - which was most of it in my opinion - this book was gripping and exciting, with a good touch of cynical wit to it. It's nice to see the Culture again, though I would like an entirely Culture based book, which didn't meander off into other worlds.

To compare one Banks against another is a difficult task, as they are all different, and yet all the same. Personal favourites of mine are The Bridge and The Business (From non-m Banks) and Against A Dark Background, The Player of Games and Feersum Endjinn (AADB was my first Banks sci-fi, Player of Games a very inticing read, and Feersum Endjinn was book-long-set-up that leaves you with an amused feeling.)

Another vote for The Player of Games...

[chiark]

quite possibly my favourite book, still... Although my username and URL probably give that away somewhat ;-)

Excellent writing with a definite style all of his own, accessible plot which you can take the clues of where it's going and feel all clever as a reader... Just a superb book, as are most of Banks' works. I'd also agree on avoiding excession as a device to break into Banks: the parent poster's thoughts echo my own.

Good, but not the best Culture book

[Iron Fusion]

I just finished this book today, and I agree with the review in that it wasn't Banks' best work. I still quite enjoyed it and thought it was well written, but I agree with some of the other comments that it was a bit too similar to some of his previous work - in a way it felt like a mix-and-match of elements of "Excession", "Use of Weapons" and "Inversions". There was also a large amount of background material that wasn't strictly necessary for the plot, though I wouldn't really call this a flaw since the setting and background was fairly interesting in itself.

Once issue affecting this book and most of Banks' other SF novels is his tendency to include too many long travel sequences and other unnecessary (or unnecessarily long-winded) scenes in the first 3/4 of the book, then to start rushing everything in the last 1/4 to bring things to a conclusion.

Overall I liked it but I think by the end I liked it a little less than I did at the half-way point, with the plot preceding a little too straight-forwardly (at least by Banksian standards). The ending was decent and there was one horrific image in particular that really stuck in my head but compared to someone like George R. R. Martin, Banks doesn't isn't a good enough writer of compelling characters to have the full impact he may have intended. His strengths lie more in fascinating, detailed settings and an enjoyable general writing style. I feel like the actual writing here was better than ever, but the "seen it all before" nature of the plot (and to some extent the setting) reduced my enjoyment a bit.

Space opera: see Mc Master Bujold

[renoX]

The reviewer said 'Neglected since the era of E. E. "Doc" Smith, the space opera is back.' which made me laugh: Lois Mc Master Bujold many Hugos for its Miles Vorkosigan serie is a proof that the space opera is fine thanks.

And I would add that for me, Lois Mc Master Bujold is as good as Isaac Asimov when she write SF: the whole Vorkosigan serie is very good..

Re:Space opera: see Mc Master Bujold

[ElAurian]

I would class the Vorkosigan series as military sf, rather than space opera. However, I agree that it is an absolutely brilliant series.

Re:Anti-vote for The Player of Games...

[moeinvt]

Allright . . . where do you and MT want to meet me so we can have a good face-to-face conflict about this? :-)

I just don't see what people see in "The Player of Games". It explores some very thought provoking concepts, but the plot ground to a halt shortly after the protagonist's incursion into the alien environment. I wasn't even able to finish it. The marginal stimulations experienced as grand adventure by a character that has pursued an otherwise mundane existence is a good "idea", but makes for extremely dull reading. What am I missing?

We do agree that diving into "Excession" as an intro to Banks would be a tragic mistake. It is the best Banks novel of those that I have read, and one of my favorites of all-time, so I highly recommend it, but I think "Consider Phlebas" should be bare minimum background reading.

As an aside, does anyone but me hate those "Culture" assholes? I haven't discussed this with anyone. If that's the whole point of the series, I think he's kept it going far too long, so I'm somewhat doubtful that my opinion is shared. The earth counterparts of the citizens in "The Culture" would be spolied rich kids with trust funds attending Ivy-league colleges. I long for the day when some insurgency genetically engineers a few viruses and computer viruses to wipe those bastards out.

Re:Stuck in Matter

[DrVomact]

OK, I got to the part where the drone transfers its consciousness into a knife missile, disguises itself as a dildo, and packs itself into Our Heroine's luggage. Now that was truly funny. Especially the dialogue in which the drone promised not to be "invasive". The book's looking up...