Sony Offers Bloatware Removal Service — For a Fee [Updated]

linuxwrangler writes "First Sony packed its laptops with Microsoft Works, Microsoft Office trial version, Corel Paint Shop Pro trial version, WinDVD and more. Now it is offering to remove the bloatware. Of course marketing changed the name from 'removing the crap we stuck you with' to 'Fresh Start' software optimization. And they want you to pay $149.99 to clean up their mess — $49.99 for 'Fresh Start' on top of the required $100.00 Vista Business upgrade. You can get about $25.00 of that cost back if you select all available 'no-software' options which are only available after selecting the $149.99 'upgrade'. Wonder what they would charge to remove Windows completely." Update 11:57 GMT by SM: It seems that massive outrage at Sony's "Fresh Start" program has encouraged them to drop the fee for scrubbing your laptop of bloatware before shipping it your way.

Comments

PC Decrapifyer will not work?

[Zymergy]

I was assuming that PC Decrapifyer cleaned the plethora of extraneous Sony-specific applications, the list does not list one Sony item: http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/apps
Still, is it is a very FREE and very Useful tool for new PCs.

Another link OTFA:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/21/sony-hates-you-offers-50-fresh-start-option-to-build-your-la/

Re:PC Decrapifyer will not work?

[The MAZZTer]

PC Decrapifier isn't very good. I tried it on a computer with a dozen programs that I would consider fit the bill... it only found two, and could only remove one IIRC. The other one was easily removed using the program's own uninstaller, so it's obvious PCD doesn't even try very hard.

Re:PC Decrapifyer will not work?

[strange dynamics]

1. Thanks for the link. It's ironic that the link in the summary leads to an ad page. Any time a site shows a full page ad before the article I am trying to read, I immediately go back to try and send the message that I will not read their site if they insist on advertising that way.

2. On topic: Although I completely disagree with sony's actions here, it makes sense that a computer without all the crap would cost more. A crap filled PC is subsidized by revenue from the crap vendors, a clean PC is not.

Re:PC Decrapifyer will not work?

[NeverVotedBush]

You can fix a whole lot of that advertising by setting up your hosts file. It works on Windows, Linux, and MacOS. This site is just one of many that will tell you how to do it and get you started with a pretty long list of useless advertisers that you won't have to see any more...

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

As an aside, it can also help keep your computer from accidentally visiting sites that install crapware/spyware/adware on your system.

But the only computer that I have ever bought already built and loaded with software from the manufacturer is my Mac laptop. All of my other systems - both past and present - were built from parts and that is the only way I'll ever do it. There are no subsidies and no Windows preinstalled. I get to choose what parts I want, put my money into performance where it is important to me, and get parts that are compatible and interchangeable that don't tie me to some warehouse vendor.

I know that path isn't for everyone but it works very well for me. And if I was to ever buy some Windows-compatible laptop with stuff preinstalled for me, the first thing I would do is reformat it and install only what I want. If the company provides no way for me to do that (i.e. OS only provided on part of the disk partition and already preconfigured to include the crapware), I simply would not buy it.

Re:PC Decrapifyer will not work?

[novakreo]

.....built and loaded with software from the manufacturer is my Mac laptop....

A nice feature of Macs is that any programs you don't want are easy to delete. Just drag them to the trash. No need for uninstallers. No registry cleaners or other crap removal problems. Why can't Windows be like that?

Unfortunately even Apple's own applications aren't usually self-contained within their .app icon package like you suggest. If you drag a program like Garageband or iPhoto to the Trash, you're only removing part of the program. For example, the Garageband icon in /Applications is ~86 megabytes, but there are nearly 2 gigabytes of sound loops and such in /Library/Application Support that would be left behind, not to mention individual user preferences and caches in ~/Library.

In my opinion Windows is actually ahead of OS X here, by providing a central location (the Add/Remove Programs control panel) to completely remove (well-behaved) applications.

Re:PC Decrapifyer will not work?

[CrazeeCracker]

User preferences arn't part of the application in the first place. Also the sound loops could be usable by any audio application. Oh come on, that's a pretty paltry "justification" for the piecemeal process there. "Oh, it's as easy as moving the Application to Trash. Any data files, any other files created and used internally by the application, well, you'll have to hunt them down and delete them, and it left those gigabytes of sample files for you to use with other applications! Where's the problem there?"

You may have a point concerning files like Preferences, but thinks like /Library/Audio are indeed for use with all applications.

Suppose you want to de-install GarageBand because you decided to install Logic Express/Pro (or, hell, any non-Apple DAW, too). Would you appreciate the OS automatically removing all your customised loops? What about the stock loops - which you still might want to (and are entitled to) access?

Apple's way of de-installing stuff is, in most cases, way more user-friendly and less likely to screw things up for other apps. In any case, the worst thing that leftover prefs, etc. can do is eat up a few kB of HD space. Big deal.

How about a Vista rebate instead?

[gnutoo]

Why stop at removing "Works" when you could use Ubuntu? Wouldn't Sony then have to give you a rebate for the OS you did not use?

You would be better off even if you wasted $149 on XP and used your old software. This option does not rule out a nice free software partition. I can't believe anyone will use the "fresh start" service.

Geez. forget it.

[OrangeTide]

Almost seems easier to just buy the Windows OEM version and install from scratch. Can you get a rebate on a Vista license bundled with your laptop that you aren't using like you could on previous versions of Windows?

Re:Geez. forget it.

[nogginthenog]

Yes, but it's not much use if you don't have a driver for your network card!

Re:Geez. forget it.

[hazem]

I thought most manufacturers give you a list of all the drivers you need on their website when you select the model.

The problem is, if the company sells the laptop with Vista, then the download drivers are also for... Vista.

I got a Fujitsu with Vista and "upgraded" to XP. It was a bit of a challenge because the controller chipset wasn't supported with the Windows XP disk I purchased. I manged to get an install going using Nlite and adding the driver controllers I downloaded from HP.

That was challenging because the drivers came as a floppy image that had to be "burned" to a floppy with the special software. My laptop doesn't have a floppy - and I had to reconnect the floppy to my desktop - and then dig through all my boxes of crap to finally find a floppy to burn it to... just to put it on a USB stick so I could transfer it back to my laptop where I was building a new install disk.

I managed to get everything working on my laptop except for all of the buttons on the hot keys above the keyboard that would normally launch web browsers and such.

I'd LOVE to get a rebate on the unused Vista install disk that came with it.

It should be

[Tuoqui]

From the charging-you-for-our-mistakes dept.

Re:It should be

[OrangeTide]

How much does the option of not killing the family dog cost? I don't think I can afford the please-don't-rape-me option bundled with these products. I'm waiting for the version of a product with viruses loaded onto it to be $50 cheaper, that way you can undercut competitors in advertisements and with customers that buy purely on pricetag. Even though I suspect most customers try to roughly compare pricetag with features to come up with some squish concept of value when they make a purchase decision.

Not shocking

[moogied]

Consider that best buy, circuit city, and every small time PC repair shop on earth offers this exact same service. People already pay hand over fist to have someone else run some basic software, or in Sony's case... run that software once, update the image, and image that option onto your PC instead of the bloated one.

Don't let them charge you

[Rinisari]

Instead of allowing them to charge you for removing Windows, simply don't accept the EULA and call Sony to get your money back. Research it online--there's been a lot of people who have been refunded the Microsoft tax for just a few hours of work.

Control Panel - Programs - Programs and Features -

[More_Cowbell]

"To uninstall a program, select it from the list and click "Uninstall""

Not really that big a deal... I guess for $150 VS a few clicks and reboots, I'd rather keep the cash. (I have a new Vaio and already did this) Yes, I know it is only $50 but I have no need for Vista Business either.

And if you are in a business buying a large volume of laptops (presumably the intended market?), wouldn't it still be more efficient to pay your IT guy to do the same?

Headline INCORRECT

[Buran]

Sony will NOT be charging a fee.

Sony Drops $50 Fee to Remove Useless Bloatware

Oops.

Next time, do your research to make sure you have the latest info, mmmkay?

Re:Headline INCORRECT

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL! So you don't even have the excuse of being a fanboy? It was plain stupidity that you scampered off to post a story that was shown to be false ON THE VERY SAME SITE?

What an idiot...

not to be a fan boy, but...

[bwy]

This is one of the most refreshing things about a Mac- you don't have to reload the OS as soon as you buy the machine. I would NEVER use a preload version of XP or Vista. Never, ever, ever.

I haven't seen what Ubuntu preloads look like from the likes of Dell. Hopefully, it is nice and clean and about what I would do if I installed it myself and got all the drivers working.

Re:not to be a fan boy, but...

[Animaether]

if you were a fan boy, you'd pretty much be a fan of "not that I have much choice in the matter".

Yes, it's wonderful that Apple doesn't bloat up the default installations of Mac OS. Then again, it's not Microsoft that's bloating up the default installations either - it's the computer manufacturers. Apple is in the sweet position to be both the OS developer and the manufacturer + distributor of their computers.

On the other hand, you -can- get a 'Windows PC' that doesn't have any bloat. You can get one that has internet-specific bloat. You can get one that has games-specific bloat (popular games server management stuff pre-installed), etc. You get a choice.
Yes, I know, by far the majority of those choices will have -some- manner of bloat. But, again, you do get a choice.

Personally I don't see why anybody would actively -choose- any sort of bloat, but maybe that's just because the appropriate bloat hasn't been presented to me yet. Let's say there was a 3D graphics computer that with pre-installed Blender, The Gimp / Cinepaint, InkScape, etc. I wouldn't particularly complain about that 'bloat'.

Re:not to be a fan boy, but...

[p0tat03]

Hate to rain on your party as a fellow Mac user... But that's not quite true. Macs come out of the box with a junkload of pre-load software. Granted, the quality of them far exceed the kind of apps you see bundled on Dells and Sonys, but nonetheless, MacOS X isn't quite so clean out of the box.

Oh, and a clean install of OS X takes FAR less room than what you would see on a Mac out of the box. I've done it before. Things like Garage Band take up a huge amount of space, and while I do like the app, most users will probably never run it.

As usual...

[IANAAC]

Slashdot's late to the party.

Gizmodo is reporting that Sony have already stated that starting tomorrow the service will be free.

Dell has this option

[KevMar]

I saw that Dell has a small business line of PC's that they claim to ship free of all that bloatware. I dont remember the name of that product line. But I liked the fact that you didnt have to select it as an option, it was a standard feature.

The first thing I do to every new computer I get (or my family) is to reformat and reinstall windows.

Re:Dell has this option

[MojoStan]

I saw that Dell has a small business line of PC's that they claim to ship free of all that bloatware. I dont remember the name of that product line. But I liked the fact that you didnt have to select it as an option, it was a standard feature. It's their super-cheap Vostro line of desktops and laptops for small business, which were introduced Summer 2007. Vostro hardware is nearly identical to the new Inspiron desktops and laptops introduced at the same time, but are "business black" instead of silver.

The press release for the Vostro introduction described the "no trialware" feature:

• "The Vostro branded products feature no trialware and simple to use tools that address top-of-mind problems such as data back-up, PC performance and health, and specialized networking support for customers without dedicated IT staff."

Of course, some buyers probably think Dell's "support tools" is "bloatware," but I guess that's what you have to accept when you buy a PC with support and warranty.

Forget it. That's a good idea.

[gnutoo]

This is why it's a good idea to avoid brand new hardware from unfriendly companies like Sony. If it won't work with PCLinuxOS, Mepis or one of the Ubuntu live CDs, you don't want it. XP won't work either, which leaves you with Vista and hunting for the dozens of programs needed to make Windows useful. You might as well give up. Hardware that's just a year or two older or that's "low power" will perform better under free software than new hardware under Vista and software that does not break XP is going to get harder and harder to find.

One of life's little axioms

[Man On Pink Corner]

"If the answer involves giving money to Sony, you must have asked a really silly question."

Fresh Start free with business edition upgrade!

[fyoder]

From the Wired article you provided:

Fresh Start will now be a no-cost option on Sony's slick subnotebooks, but only for those who opt for Windows Vista Business Edition, a $100 upgrade.

Perhaps they should still offer it for regular edition, then market the business edition upgrade as "Upgrade to Business Edition and get Fresh Start free, a fifty dollar value!"

Partially honest. & how much is bloatware wort

[klubar]

In some ways, Sony is at least being (partially) honest in that they explicitly price the removal. Other vendors hide the cost by wrapping bloatware free versions into specific models (for example, Dell's Vostos and Optiplex) don't have much bloatware, but are not exactly identical to an equivalent model.

Does anyone know how much the vendors actually get for installing various trial versions?

Also, there is some danger of one man's bloatware being another's convenience. For example is pre-installing Adobe Acrobat and Flash bloatware or value? How about Google toolbar? Firefox? And on down the line... iTunes?

And, Macs aren't exactly bloatware free. Quicktime is a trial version with a nag screen to upgrade. Macs come with trial versions of Office (how much does Microsoft pay for that) and Omni outliner.

I have a vaio and about this crap they install..

[cybereal]

I have a Sony Vaio subnotebook with all kinds of crap installed on top of WinXP Pro. But here's the deal. You can make a CD version of their restore kit, though. And when you restore that way, they let you choose to ignore the little "restore partition" that wastes a lot of space so that's awesome.

But the best part is, the "crapware" doesn't go on until the OS is all restored. It's clean until you finally boot back up and it starts asking for CD's again. At least in the version I have, you can cancel the process there. You'll have to get your own drivers from the download site, which isn't hard, they have a nice streamline downloader that produces a report and everything.

So at least with my Vaio T-340P I had no troubles working around the (realistically minor compared to some machines) bloatware.

Another good reason to avoid the box stores

[Kahless2k]

When my shop sells any new system, my techs go over the machine before it leaves the building - the first thing I have them do is remove the crapware (including the Norton trial most come with), load Avast if they dont have their own AV, install Spybot, windows updates. The idea is that the user can take full advantage of the system from the moment it leaves the store.

Re:Another good reason to avoid the box stores

[KillerBob]

When my shop sells any new system, my techs go over the machine before it leaves the building - the first thing I have them do is remove the crapware (including the Norton trial most come with), load Avast if they dont have their own AV, install Spybot, windows updates. The idea is that the user can take full advantage of the system from the moment it leaves the store.

Y'know, some users would consider your choice of software to be little difference. Your choice in software is perhaps a little more benevolent, but you're still making software choices for your user, and installing stuff they didn't ask for. Plus... from your wording, I'm assuming that you're a reseller, and that systems from Lenovo/HP/Dell/Whatever are leaving your building? What happens when your customers call up Dell tech. support and expect help with Avast? After all, it came with their computer....

You may also want to check on the EULA conditions for Avast, because I *think* what you're doing is against the license. It's certainly against the AVG license.

Re:Control Panel - Programs - Programs and Feature

[afidel]

If you want a large number of PC's Sony is NOT who you choose. Many of their laptops have drivers installed in the OEM setup disk that flat out aren't available any other way. Most shops that have large numbers of machines use some sort of imaging setup and that doesn't work with an OEM edition of Windows, only with volume licensed editions.

Re:I wish, I wish

[MojoStan]

I wish, I wish I was a fish. And that we could buy computers without an OS if we chose to. Sure you can. You can buy Dell n Series computers without an OS installed, but with an obligatory copy of FreeDOS (not preinstalled). You're not really expected to install FreeDOS, but for some reason (maybe legal or contractual) Dell doesn't want to sell PCs without a bundled OS, so they bundle (but don't install) an OS that you're not expected to install.

• Inspiron n Series desktops for home and home office
• Vostro and OptiPlex n Series desktops for business
• Latitude n Series laptops for business

I wouldn't be surprised if other PC makers sold some computers (most likely business models) without an OS.

Re:Control Panel - Programs - Programs and Feature

[CaptainPatent]

To uninstall a program, select it from the list and click "Uninstall" I would like to make two points:
1) Sony's own load images are to blame for much of the pre-installed adware and unnecessary bloat, why should there even be a fee in the first place to NOT install software?
2) Often uninstall in Windows isn't as easy as clicking "uninstall" as you suggest. Because of the nifty Windows inventions such as the registry and protected system folders, uninstall is no longer what it used to be. Many times, programs leave traces in the registry which never come out and can still slow the computer, and even cause crashes down the road. If you never load undesired programs in the first place, you avoid this added risk altogether.

I know not all programs take a merciless rampage through the registry and some uninstallers may be programmed without error, but lets face it, if any one programmer on a project left one registry entry undocumented, one system folder modification unchecked, one startup program off the uninstaller, you have a risk...
now multiply that by the number of programmers on the projects...
now by the amount of bloat you have on your system before it's removed...
It may not be worth $50 to you or me even after all of that because we can easily reinstall, but to the average consumer it can be a lot more cumbersome.

Insightful and Informative

[dave562]

This is a good article because now we have some idea about what all of that bloatware is worth to PC manufacturers. $150.

+4 Insightful?

[linumax]

Is this the result of collective wisdom of /. moderators?!!

I'm writing this from Leopard, and my other two machines run Ubuntu but I have installed Windows (98 - XP) on several hundred different configurations, same goes for various Linux distros but that ignorant comment of yours, both about the time it takes to install Windows and how you'll have to track down "every single last driver" is nothing but trolling.

I haven't installed Vista, so I won't comment on that.

Re:I wish, I wish

[Z34107]

Y'know, it's not that hard to build your own computer. If you're not shooting for a bottom-of-the-barrel $399-plus-cheese-grater model (in which case, you should be shot) you can generally save money that way, too.

In this month's MaximumPC, for example, they have step-by-step instructions with pictures for building your own $1500 gaming rig. PDF Version You can spend considerably less if you don't plan on doing any gaming - cheaper video card, slower processor, and the like. And, it comes with any OS you want! ^.^

Re:Doesn't work

[lostfayth]

Is there a particular reason you can't grab a copy of the official Windows OEM install disk?

You already have a license, and it's not Microsoft that bundles the crap. (Defending Microsoft? On Slashdot? There goes my karma...)

Re:I wish, I wish

[Mad Merlin]

The truth is only the cheapest computers can be bought without an OS.

Hmm... I just went onto Newegg.com and bought all the parts for a computer, the parts *I* wanted to be used, assembled them, and installed the OS of *my* choice.
Wasn't difficult at all and didn't get stuck with cheap inferior merchandise.

Why don't you try the same for a laptop and let us know how it goes?

Re:I wish, I wish

[Mad Merlin]

You can also get Dells preloaded with Ubuntu (including in Canada, now!), just search their site for "ubuntu": http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Sony drops its $49 "no crapware" fee

[tdrak]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=404

Re:Doesn't work

[FredFredrickson]

Is there a particular reason you can't grab a copy of the official Windows OEM install disk? Or, you know, just sit in the Add/Remove Programs window for a few hours. Some people are just looking for reasons to glorify their fav distro... "God, this Media player crap that comes with windows is just junk! Thank god for linux! (What? What's winamp?)"

Re:It went over your head, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your inability to grasp that jokes can falter is pretty damn funny.

Re:I wish, I wish

[qopax]

There are plenty of Asus barebone laptops that are sold without an OS. And you can buy any high-end parts for them too (well, C2D processors, video cards akin to an 8600gt, big hard drives, etc.)

Re:My next laptop?

[CanadianRealist]

If I should happen to see a BMG or Bertelsmann laptop, you can bet that I'll be laughing as I turn away and say "No!"

Otherwise, since Bertelsmann is not a household name like Sony, from Widipedia:
Bertelsmann consists of six corporate divisions:[2]

        * RTL Group, Europe's biggest broadcaster
        * Gruner + Jahr (a magazine publisher, the biggest in Europe)[3]
        * Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG), which mainly consists of 50 percent interest in Sony BMG[citation needed]
        * Random House, the world's largest trade book publisher (popular literature)
        * Direct Group, the world's largest book and music club group
        * Arvato AG, an international media and communications service provider

I don't live in Europe and I don't subscribe to or purchase any paper magazines. I don't buy many CDs these days. DVDs are usually bought only on special sales, clearances etc. I haven't bought anything from Random House recently. I don't subscribe to any book or music club. Not sure what Arvato really does.

It seems that I'm already boycotting Bertelsmann quite effectively by general lack of need or interest of their products.
Besides which, I really don't see anything on that list which could ever equate to a laptop purchase.

Re:I wish, I wish

[ultranova]

If you're not shooting for a bottom-of-the-barrel $399-plus-cheese-grater model (in which case, you should be shot) you can generally save money that way, too.

You should be shot if you want a cheap computer ? Good grief !