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ISO Miscounted Cuban OOXML Vote
An anonymous reader notes Groklaw's coverage of the apparent mix-up ISO made with Cuba's vote in the matter of recommending OOXML as a standard. Cuba apparently voted against OOXML in September, but ISO recorded their vote as a "yes" — which is odd on its face, as Microsoft is forbidden to sell any products in Cuba. The Cuban NB head has apparently now officially responded to the BRM, but Groklaw's PJ notes that verification remains problematical, and "...the bottom line to me is that a process that worked perfectly well when folks all trusted each other falls into chaos when there are allegations of dirty tricks or undue pressure."
"the bottom line to me is that a process that worked perfectly well when folks all trusted each other falls into chaos when there are allegations of dirty tricks or undue pressure" ...well DUH...
As soon as they bought the Diebold voting system, I knew we were screwed.
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Damn I don't know how to say this without sounding like a troll, so please forgive me, but er, well, um...
These are engineers, right? The ISO, I mean?
I hope none of those guys designed the equipment my eye surgeon will be using when I have my vitrectomy (shudder).
-mcgrew
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
The Red Revolution People's First October Socialist Workers Computing Platform. Which is either a Linux distro or pirated Windows anyway. Communists don't care about code you have to buy from the running dog lackeys of Capitalist Colonialist Aggression.
These Cuban scum! They are trying to ruin our American way of life with their instance on "open standards." Their dangerous ideas of "freedom" and "choice" are directly opposed to our system of allowing us to choose whatever option we are told to choose. Damn Commies! If we don't stop them now, they will want to monitor our machine controlled elections! We have to stop these anti-Americans now, while we still have the chance!
Ubiquitously - A Ubiquity Developer Community
Pirate XP version, readily available and used in Cuba, and the price is right
Cuba has computers?
He plays for keeps and is rumored to have a temper.
Dealing with unfairness and undue pressure is a central theme in building societies and groups that work. If everyone were good and played fair, any system would work. We need social systems precisely because some people do not play fair. Thus, we have checks and balances in our American political system. Where are the checks and balances here?
The author is basically saying, the system is flawed because it does not take into account certain facts about human nature, and fails at one of the most basic tasks any socio-political system should strive to accomplish, namely limiting the ability of participants to put undue pressure on each other and use dirty tricks.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
The screeching mob at Groklaw seems to be under the impression that, because until this standard came up for approval they thought "ISO" was just some setting on their CD burning software, this is the first time there's ever been controversy over one of their decisions. In fact, it's not the case that all their previous standards were reached by everyone hugging each other.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
An eye surgery tool running Vista? What if it gets hacked? That's just asking to have the goatse guy literally rather than figuratively burned into your retinas.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Like we haven't learned that from the spammers abusing e-mail, the various hacks to slashcode to prevent carpflooding, etc. etc. etc.?
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Does this mean the entire island runs on Linux?
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
It is only odd if MS had a hand in it. However, if it was just a dumbass doing the counting, then it is not odd at all.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
What does ISO have to do with Microsoft?
The author is basically saying, the system is flawed because it does not take into account certain facts about human nature,
I'd argue that it's impossible to build a system that will work when people don't respect it. For example - the third-party payola loophole farce. Another example - democracy might work when people respect it, but the rules mean nothing to "I have a PhD in violence" Mugabe.
In essenence, the rules themselves are only useful if they are followed in spirit. When they are not followed in spirit, then we need more clarifying rules until we come down to some basic rules that are followed in spirit. That's why are law books are so large - and it's still not large enough for people like Darl McBride... proof that the more we disrespect each other, the bigger the rule book needs to become.
The traditional solution is to turn your back to people fail to follow the spirit of the rules. You just tell them that they can go bother someone else. You can't force other people to learn ethics, and there'll always be that fuzzy area where the amorale can do horrible but legal things like deliberately spread disinformation about global warming. These people should be charged with treason, because they are subverting the public good.
When an untrustworthy entity enters a situation where a certain level of trust is already assumed (M$ and ISO), then the rulebook needs to catch up *a lot*.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Groklaw is among the sites currently being blocked from Europe along with related sites. If you're in Europe, you might need to go through a proxy to reach Groklaw articles.
It's hard to say whether all the Pro-Open Standards material and damning data on DIS 29500 is the cause or if it's the Iowa case evidence about MS' decade long jihad against 'non-believers'
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Really, since when you need a proxy to reach Groklaw?
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
http://groklaw.net/ in general and the article in particular are accessible from Germany via my local ISP. No need for any proxy!
Announcer: Welcome to the new game show, Proof or Wanker! Okay, first challenge. Bart Sibrel was punched in the face by Buzz Aldrin for claiming the moon landing was a hoax. Proof or wanker? Contestant one has 'buzzed' in, haha.
Contestant one: Uhh, wanker?
Announcer: That is correct! Challenge number two, oooh! It's our daily double! Okay, global warming...
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
PJ says: "...the bottom line to me is that a process that worked perfectly well when folks all trusted each other falls into chaos when there are allegations of dirty tricks or undue pressure."
But standards operations have ALWAYS been about cutthroat politics and dirty tricks to gain competitive advantage. (For instance: There's stuff in an international protocol standard from the '70s or so that was transparently-crufty weirdness a US delegation proposed to get the French to back down from something they didn't like - but the French instead embraced the cruft wholeheartedly and the US negotiators couldn't admit it was just a bluff...)
The ideal is to standardize exactly what you're already marketing (or are about to release), so you continue to sell it and become (or become more) the dominant and entrenched market player while everybody else is delayed while they make changes - and become incompatible with their previous prototypes or products. This is a massive advantage even if you DO have to give up your patent locks on the technology to make it into a standard.
What's different about this is just the scale and the ability of the multibillion-dollar gorilla to afford tactics that weren't cost-effective enough to be common.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
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Cuba is almost isolated in their computer net so compatibility of formats and documents should n't be a problem. They are also communist. You'd think: that's an ideal enviroment for Linuzz. It should be natural to see Open Office, Linuzz, GIMP, etc on evry machine.
Well, think again: everybody (normal users and the goverment) use pirated Windows, MS Office, Photoshop, etc.
I wonder why... (or not)
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Ummm .... as the subject indicates, if the ISO has trouble counting pieces of paper, shouldn't they create an ISO to count votes? It might come in handy in the future and save some embarrassment at the same time!!
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Simplify the rules, simplify the consequences.
What you are talking about quickly becomes the rule of the strong, and an honour culture. I most definitely do *not* want to live in an honour culture. The invention of trial by jury was a significant leap forward in the human endeavor. Same with the separation of powers.
So instead of teaching others to fear you, perhaps one could teach others to respect you because of who you are. The first will manifest in conflict, and the second in harmony.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
There is also an article on groklaw titled: A Delegate from Brazil Challenges "Law of Silence"
A delegate from Brazil is challenging the "Law of Silence," The ad-hoc restrictions on revealing details of the BRM meeting. He alleges that he believes Microsoft has itself violated it. It relates to Microsoft's claim that 98% of issues were resolved at the meeting, which he says is inaccurate, but his question relates to why Microsoft can talk about the BRM and no one else can.
The ISO seems to make "rules" ad-hoc, according to what Microsoft dictates, then they don't even follow their own bogus rules.
The ISO has lost all credibility with me. Unless the ISO completely reforms their processes, I will consider them about credibilitily as an Enderle article.
River full of carp + snow melt = carp flood.
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That was designed by Ratbert. ISO was run by engineers, but appears to have been taken over by plastic pink flamingos.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)