Stolen US Military Equipment Being Sold On eBay

I Buy These From eBay points out a Washington Post story about how stolen military equipment has ended up on eBay and Craigslist. Undercover investigators reported being able to purchase defense-related items with "no questions asked." Let's hope the sellers don't get their hands on any retired rebellious robots. From the Post: "Among the items purchased include two components from F-14 fighter jets, bought from separate buyers on eBay. The warplanes, now retired by the military, could easily be purchased and transferred to the Iranian military, which is seeking its components, the report said. Investigators couldn't determine where the sellers had obtained the F-14 parts. They also purchased from a Craigslist seller a used Nuclear Biological Chemical protective suit, other protective accessories as well as an unused chemical-biological canister, which contained the mask filter used to guard against warfare agents. The property was likely stolen from the Defense Department, the report said."

Comments

Not smart

[saibot834]

Ebay policy prohibits sale of stolen items and parts of a F-14 are obviously stolen if on Ebay. So, consequence one will be removal of the auction. Consequence two is, that now Ebay has the IP-Adresses of those people and they properly will give it to the military. They better used Tor or live in a country far far away.

This behavior is IMHO incredibly stupid. If you manage to steal such items, one would think that you also manage to sell them somewhere else than on Ebay.

Re:Not smart

[Kuroji]

Among the items purchased include two components from F-14 fighter jets ...

I think someone wasn't paying attention down at eBay, but the summary would imply these things were in fact bought.

Re:Not smart

[peragrin]

If memory serves they were radio annetenna's. not turbine parts, or gear parts but turbine.

Also if Iran was smart they would have mothballed everything, and disassembled at least one plane. from there they could duplicate all the mechanical parts, and would only then have to figure out the electronics. Though I highly doubt that those planes are in flying condition anymore. Planes that old need to have every nut and bolt checked.

Re:Not smart

[Konster]

A lot of things can be replicated on a lathe or whatever. You can replicate its dimensions, but you cannot replicate alloys...get the alloy wrong and the part doesn't work at all. Beyond that, there's the manufacturing technique that needs to be reverse engineered, too. This is not a trivial task. Screw up the process of manufacturing and you've got nothing.

Beyond all those hurdles, you've got to consider the lubricants as well, screw that up and the parts don't work.

Screw up anything in the chain and nothing works.

There's a reason why countries like Iran or whatever aren't flying around in replica F-14's and F-15's. While they may have the dimensions to replicate a part, they don't have the huge amount of engineering required to make that part work, and work reliably.

The engineering know-how that goes into a sophisticated bit of military hardware spans most hardcore sciences spanning many decades of research, know how, genuine talent and knowledge. This cannot be reverse engineered or reproduced on a lathe.

Re:Not smart

[bberens]

There's a reason why countries like Iran or whatever aren't flying around in replica F-14's and F-15's. While they may have the dimensions to replicate a part, they don't have the huge amount of engineering required to make that part work, and work reliably. You're talking about a country which my President has told me has a nuclear weapons program. Something tells me if they're capable of getting nuclear engineers, they can figure out how to make a half-decent fighter jet if they really needed to.

Re:Not smart

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical media.... "Investigators couldn't determine where the sellers had obtained the F-14 parts.".. which would imply they don't know if the parts are stolen, but sensationalists won't have a story without a headline saying the parts are stolen. And now everyone is excited and creating conspiracy theories and Iran is going to take over the world with 3 f-14 parts they bought... whatever.

Re:Not smart

[ColdWetDog]

Something tells me if they're capable of getting nuclear engineers, they can figure out how to make a half-decent fighter jet if they really needed to.

They likely could, but it's still difficult and requires more than just some smart engineers. As has been pointed out, it's a manufacturing / design / maintenance chain that's complex and expensive. In addition, one or two nuclear weapons constitutes a "win" in this game. One or two reverse engineered F14's constitutes target practice for the Israeli Air Force.

The modular nature of aircraft makes it more useful to find spare parts wherever you can rather than make expensive, complex modules. You still have the non trivial task of putting the things together and keeping them their. And there are lots of used F14's out there. The Ebay stuff is a pretty marginal market for this kind of thing.

Re:Not smart

[budgenator]

Not everything can be taken apart in a way that preserves dimensions some pieces of the airframe for example may take 2 pieces of different aluminum alloys, glued together with high-strength epoxy and held together with rivets until the epoxy cures; good luck getting that apart. Often the order of assembly can change a brain numbingly difficult step into a totally impossible one; how many times have you had to redo step 12 correctly so you could do step 27 when putting together one of the pressed saw-dust board entertainment centers for WallMart! Like the entertainment center the parts have to be assembled correct and often in the correct order because just they will not go together out of order, also like the entertainment center, the individual part are often very fragile and easy to break, they are only strong when put together. Even more difficult, aircraft like high-performance fighter can have part at wildly different temperature a leading edge might be 600-700 C, a foot back on the wing might be -50, everything not only has to be put together but stay together as the aircraft cycles through those temperature range every flight.

Fear mongering?

[bkraptor]

What's this called? (hint: fear mongering?) Why was the Iranian military mentioned in the article? Are Iranians the only ones out there that can possibly hurt the US? No, anyone can buy that stuff and damage other countries. The US isn't the only country on this planet. Please, for the sake of the future, stop acting like everyone is out to get you.

Re:Fear mongering?

[MrNaz]

Please, for the sake of the future, stop acting like everyone is out to get you.

I think a more appropriate request would be "stop doing things that make everyone want to get you".

Re:Fear mongering?

[fermion]

If I were a major government I would have much more sophisticated methods of acquiring stolen property than ebay. Ebay has not privacy guarantees, and has no incentives to keep any particular customer or seller happy. If one goes another will take the place.

It is fear mongering. If the Iranian government can get machinery to refine nuclear materials, then why not an plane. And what are they going to do with one plane, other than use it create other planes, in which case they need a whole plane to begin with, not bit and pieces.

To put it plainly, Ebay may be where someone like the Eric Rudolf and the Army of God might buy stuff to kill women and children. And while a group like that could use an F-16, I do not see the US administration monitoring radical US traditional churches, just people whose beliefs disagree with their own.

Re:Fear mongering?

[Null Perception]

Far more terrorist related deaths have occurred in countries other than the US. Everyone should stop referring to a single incident as if it is the defining moment which makes all fear-mongering justified.

Fines involved

[Anonymous Coward]

Copy a single song recorded in 1950 and not heard on the radio for decades so that you can practice it on your guitar? WIth these new laws being proposed, you could owe the publisher millions in fines and fees.

Sell stolen US F-14 parts for profit to anyone, so that you can buy some crack? Misdemeanor.

What a crock of shit

[AIFEX]

"The property was likely stolen from the Defense Department, the report said."

Ok, probably the F-14 parts, but being ex-forces I myself have about 3 NBC suits and a box full of respirator canisters, amongst god knows what else, from clothes to tins, helmets, gortex. It's all just surplus you pick up during your time in. Half of it you can buy and any army surplus store/warehouse anyway.

Re:Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhmmm we had apache helicopter's in Vietnam? wow.. :) And if I recall right, most of Lord of War was actually based off of a true story.

don't let the truth spoil a good story

[petes_PoV]

Given the headline that says the items were stolen, how come later it says they were "likely" stolen and also that "the investigators couldn't determinewhere the sellers had obtained ..."

It mentions a couple of "components" from F14's - what? Nut and bolts or complete avionics - there's a huge difference. I would expect that if it had been anything significant, they wouldn't named them - so my money is on a few small pieces of easily machined metal.

The article then makes the subtle leap from talking about buying these F14 spares to say "The warplanes, now retired by the military, could easily be purchased and transferred to the Iranian military, which is seeking its".

Pardon me, but nowhere are they claiming to have actually *bought* the planes. They just seem to be sowing FUD in the readers mind.

It's a pity these guys couldn't find any journalistic integrity for sale on eBay - or maybe that's where theirs went.

I do not remember seeing any F-14 parts

[Reconmax]

I was in the army 15 years ago and the pawn shops around post were full of military equipment. Not just the stuff that soldiers are expected to buy for their job either. I remember soldiers who lost their NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical) mask would go buy one at a pawn shop so they would have something to turn in when they PCS (Permanent Change of Station). However, I do not remember seeing any F-14 parts...

"could be" is news now?

[superwiz]

What's next? A virus "could" come about that wipes out humanity? A company "could" decide that it will destroy humanity for profit? This could happen and that could happen is not news. It's not even speculation. It's just fud.

Alarmist crap

[FeatherBoa]

The story is just alarmist garbage making sound like people are scoring RPGs or artillery pieces in back alleys. The stuff is the same surplus gas-masks, boots and canteens you've been able to buy since Moses was a boy. The "F-14 parts" are dashboard lightbulbs and tire-valve caps. Oooh a MILSPEC 3876783-4786478-3478647 instrument cable! wow!

Re:Not smart - obviously???

[BitZtream]

While you are partially correct, you left out some important information.

Buying an F-14 airframe has been something thats been possible for years. You will however, not find an air ready F-14. They get stripped of many things, like avionics and turbines.

Without the avionics, the F-14 won't fly. You can hack together a lot of things to make it somewhat flight ready, hell you may be able to even get it in the air if worked hard enough. But what you put in the air, would in no way be a fighter jet other than its look.

While the airframe is an extremely important part of the aircraft, obviously, it is not everything and most of our ability to kick ass in the air comes from avionics and pilots.

Coming up with skilled pilots is for an F-14 is not easy, but far from impossible. Coming up with compariable avionics that have been designed and refined to make the F-14 (when thinking of the Top Gun aircraft) what it is, thats another story. Its not like the first attempt to make the F-14 an evil killing machine was perfect, the systems were refined continually and upgraded over the years.

Good luck buying those components. If you can get your hands on them, you're not dumb enough to eBay them, there are far more profitable people who would want to get their hands on such items.

I can't remember who it was, I'm sure someone else can chime in with it, but there was a band which had one of its members buy a tank to drive in England, perfectly legal ( the purchase, not the driving down the streets part ). But its not like the thing would fire a shell.