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Virgin Media CEO Says Net Neutrality Is Already Gone

Virgin Media CEO Says Net Neutrality is "A Load of Bollocks". Anyone here been shaken down by their Internet Service Provider? "The new CEO of Virgin Media is putting his cards on the table early, branding net neutrality 'a load of bollocks' and claiming he's already doing deals to deliver some people's content faster than others... If you aren't prepared to cough up the extra cash, he says he'll put you in the Internet 'bus lane.'"

21 of 378 comments (clear)

  1. That sound you hear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...is every one of his Slashdot-using customers running to cancel their accounts and find 'net access elsewhere - even if the data gets sent down a wet piece of string.

    1. Re:That sound you hear... by gigne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the UK Virgin Media represent the largest cable company, meaning that most people have the option of a BT line and ADSL.

      I personally use Virgin cable, and although it is throttled its still 2x faster than any ADSL provider. I really don't like the idea of people messing with my packets, but when the only other option is DSL providers, who don't tell you that they mess with your packets, cable still makes sense. At least they are up front about it.

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    2. Re:That sound you hear... by Le+Jimmeh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, considering it's a British Company the "American spirit" was never really there. Regardless, it's not that we're treating the lone provider as an "opportunity", but rather we have no choice. What do you expect us to do, make our own cable company?

    3. Re:That sound you hear... by Le+Jimmeh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So it's all right what he's doing, as long as he's honest about it?

      Honestly, it annoys me that someone can do something as bad as this and be honest about it yet receive no repercussions. I don't know whether this says more about Western civilisation in general or British ignorance towards the internet. Internet neutrality seems like a much bigger deal over than than here.

    4. Re:That sound you hear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      An honest crook is still a crook.

    5. Re:That sound you hear... by urbanriot · · Score: 4, Insightful
      And your trite quote doesn't alter the fact that I prefer openness and honesty over secrecy.

      An honest crook is still a crook.
    6. Re:That sound you hear... by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1/ This isn't in the US.

      2/ (In the US, at least) These companies tend to have government-granted monopoly status, where you're not allowed to compete with them. This is why US broadband sucks so much.

    7. Re:That sound you hear... by Sockatume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It wasn't all Virgin's decision to drop the Sky channels. Sky's contract with Virgin came up for renewal and Virgin refused to pay what Sky were asking for the channels (which included a "no matter how many people subscribe, you must pay us this minimum charge2 clause). Of couse it sucks if you're a customer, but Sky would just as happily exist in a world where we all used ADSL, had £60-per-month basic satellite subscriptions, and most of the hardware support was provided through really dodgy outside contractors, so it was kind of nice to see somebody sticking it to them.

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    8. Re:That sound you hear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think you can claim that Virgin Media has a monopoly just because you "don't use" the competitors. The ADSL providers are the competitors to cable Internet.

    9. Re:That sound you hear... by electrictroy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They'll care when Virgin announces, "If you want faster than 50k access to Itunes.com or BBC.com, you need to cough up another $10 a month." Then they will sit-up and take notice. Net neutrality is not just a good idea; it's how you prevent corporate dictatorship and/or manipulation of the user-citizens.

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    10. Re:That sound you hear... by Thuktun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Truth is, the debate over net neutrality has glossed over the fact that we never really had it. You pay to play and for cost, FIOS>cable>dsl>dialup. How fast do you want your data? Pay up. Netzero offered free dialup for years.

      We need to stop ranting and instead start discussing ways to protect freedom of information and privacy. ISP's have a very real problem in that bandwidth is not free and a small percentage of users do in fact use the majority of bandwidth. The real problem is more about truth in advertising. We share bandwidth and the routers can only handle so much traffic. You seem to mistake "network neutrality" with a call for cheap, all-you-can-consume bandwidth. The rates they charge for the bits are their own concern as long as they don't inspect your packets and charge you based on what they see.
    11. Re:That sound you hear... by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It seems to me you misunderstand net neutrality. You seem to argue that the bandwidth of your connection is tied to net neutrality. It isn't. Net neutrality is about what happens to packets when both sides of a connection have a standing agreement with the provider about each one's bandwidth. By default, and the way the Internet was designed to work, the end points are the only points with any intelligence built in. Everything in between just carries stuff around in a best effort fashion.

      What providers try to do now is to say "yes, I know both sides already paid for a certain amount of data to be delivered. Now I want to be paid to make sure that nothing happens to said data." I don't have a problem with dynamic throttling of all sites, or any other generic traffic shaping. What I do object to is ISPs trying to tell me that msn.com will load quickly (because MS paid up), but google.com won't (because Google hasn't).

      If you think Net Neutrality isn't a big deal, it is. As a matter of fact, it is the reason that we have Amazon.com, Netflix, Google, Yahoo or any of the other major internet players. They would have died in an environment where they would have had to pay to load as quickly as other established players.

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  2. Its the wrong term of reference by Zeinfeld · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The point is not whether companies can get higher bandwidth by paying more. What has people angry is the idea that their cable provider might deny them the full bandwidth that they paid for when they connect to certain content providers or use VOIP.

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  3. Meanwhile... by Infonaut · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An anguished, collective shout of horror and surprise emanates from Virgin Media's PR department: "Nooooooooooo!!!"

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  4. So Virgin Is the Enemy by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This blatant confession by Virgin Media is the best news yet for the Net Neutrality movement. Because the main argument of the enemies of Net Neutrality (who are therefore the promoters of Net Doublecharge) has always been that "equal access is never threatened", while usually contradictorily also saying "unequal access will be necessary to pay for increased capacity". Now Virgin Media is just admitting that's all a bunch of BS, and they're so hellbent on destroying the equal access for everyone that they already do it.

    This is an industry claiming we don't need our equal access protected. And now, at the same time, telling us that it's gone, and we're whining too much because they've already destroyed it.

    The enemy has blinked. There now should follow a backlash that will guarantee that we don't continue to give away our most profitable, most strategic global asset, that the public paid to invent, and build and promote, to those crooks who will say anything to steal it. And evidently are now so arrogant that they'll even admit they've already stolen it. Even though they haven't, or at least not so much that we can't take it back.

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  5. Billing your competitor's customers by Jimmy_B · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Net neutrality means you can't bill your competitor's customers. This is absolutely essential to a free market.

    See, there are actually four parties involved. The end user, Bob, buys a connection from an ISP, CableCo. Meanwhile, example.com, buys a connection from a different ISP, ExampleOnline. CableCo and ExampleOnline are competitors, but they have a peering agreement, which means that they agree to share the costs of a connection which lets Bob visit example.com. What's happening here is that CableCo is trying to get money from example.com. But example.com is ExampleOnline's customer! If ExampleOnline's customers are generating traffic which CableCo can't handle, then they need to renegotiate their peering agreement, not go after ExampleOnline's customers. That's unethical and possibly illegal.

    1. Re:Billing your competitor's customers by dachshund · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This is a very good point. I would also point out that CableCo has most likely been granted advantaged access to a large pool of customers (if it isn't actually a legally-mandated regional monopoly). What it's trying to do is leverage its "ownership" of this customer base to extort money from service providers (like your example.com).

      This significantly distorts the market, since example.com can't just go elsewhere to access these customers. If CableCo is the only way to reach them, it basically has to pony up whatever CableCo asks for, or just give up that section of its customer base. And ultimately it's CableCo's customers who wind up paying for it, since--- to stay in business--- example.com will just past the additional costs along to its customers (e.g., the cost of premium services gets boosted so that CableCo can make its competition-free profit.)

      If you were to consider an alternative model where CableCo offers tiered services, but the end-customer foots the bill for using these resources, you'd have a much healthier situation. If CableCo charges too much, then there's pressure on it (via regulation or competition) to lower its prices. In either case, the customer has an accurate perception of how much their ISP is charging them, and they're not subject to all of the hidden charges.

      Which is, of course, exactly why companies like CableCo want to do things this way. It's much better to extract a rent from your customers without their knowing it.

  6. The wrong way round by MLCT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    he's already doing deals to deliver some people's content faster Typical bit of marketing here - this shouldn't be allowed to stand. Deals aren't being done to deliver content "faster" - deals are being done to deliver other content slower. Bandwidth is a zero-sum equation.

    Assuming (since I am not an expert on this) that the prioritisation of content is being done by some sort of prioritising of packets then it is a mutually exclusive situation. The line is only so fast - the line contains only so much bandwidth. If all providers pay to have their content prioritised then nothing moves any "faster" than it is with neutrality. If only one pays to have their content "faster" then all they are doing is degrading all other traffic.

    ISP provisions need to be revolutionised - the current crop are perfectly happy as a hegemony of providers - do what they like, charge what they like. There is "competition" in only a very superficial sense.
  7. Re:grow up by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I paid to invent and build that Internet that Virgin Media is now holding hostage for charging ransom against the billing model that made it worth holding for ransom. That's not a "free market", except in the corporate handouts you "Libertarians" love to pretend is "free" because you'd love to be the next ripoff artist yourself.

    So I'm not "fighting WW2", a ridiculous comment from yet another Anonymous Libertarian Coward. I'm trying to keep some corporate interloper from ruining something that's too important to ignore. And as a trivial side skirmish, I'm slapping down your nonsense about a "free market" that erupts across an open Internet only because it does have equal access.

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  8. You say this like it is impossible. by falconwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How do you think the cable companies got started? One cable at a time.

    You left out one government granted monopoly to use the right of way at a tyme.

    Falcon
  9. Time for the Government to Take Over? by davide+marney · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The government builds and operates the interstate highway system for the common benefit of all. It's not much of a stretch to see the advantages of them building and operating a public data network, too.

    As a bonus for the security-minded, if the government operated the public network, they wouldn't have to go cap-in-hand to the private sector for permission to monitor traffic. There are cameras on all the major highway intersections, and no one complains. The same could be done for a data network.

    Governments aren't as cost-effective as private enterprise, but they have the terrific advantage of operating more in the public eye. For a public resource, this is an extremely valuable characteristic.

    The fact is, telecom doesn't operate in a free market, so almost none of the normal arguments for letting private enterprise take the lead are valid. Competition doesn't truly exist, so corporations are free to invent ever more resourceful ways to make us pay more for less.

    At the very least, a publicly-run network would be more responsive to ordinary users who at least have a vote. As it stands now, we really are at the telecomm's mercy.

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