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FBI Lied To Support Need For PATRIOT Act Expansion

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "It probably won't surprise you, but in 2005, the FBI manufactured evidence to get the power to issue National Security Letters under the PATRIOT Act. Unlike normal subpoenas, NSLs do not require probable cause and you're never allowed to talk about having received one, leading to a lack of accountability that caused them to be widely abused. The EFF has discovered via FOIA requests that an FBI field agent was forced by superiors to return papers he got via a lawful subpoena, then demand them again via an NSL (which was rejected for being unlawful at the time), and re-file the original subpoena to get them back. This delay in a supposedly critical anti-terror investigation then became a talking point used by FBI Director Robert Mueller when the FBI wanted to justify their need for the power to issue National Security Letters."

19 of 396 comments (clear)

  1. A real danger by jmpeax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is an excellent of example of why we need to be more vigilent and less complacent when it comes to government legislation. The fact that with no actual precedent for requiring stronger powers, the FBI would lie to get them, is a testament to the fact that everyone is susceptible to feeling, and succombing to, a hunger for power, even at the expense of the people they are meant to be serving.

    There is a laziness in the way people react to such legislative measures - a laziness that ignores the very real danger that our comfortable Western democracies could fall in to dictatorship much more easily than people think.

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    --Edmund Burke

    1. Re:A real danger by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure the US public are DYING to write letters to their congressman regarding this issue, but i'm afraid there's a new series of American Idol starting.

      "The Proles will never revolt." -- George Orwell

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    2. Re:A real danger by Daengbo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Thirteen years ago, when I was in Military Intelligence, we were hounded and battered over even the appearance of domestic surveillance. A couple of years later, all that went out the window with the "Patriot" Act. Does anyone really believe that spying on your own people is Patriotic?

      I knew what was going on back then. For years, various services had been crying for more power and to break down the walls between agencies so that more domestic monitoring could occur. 9/11 just gave them the excuse they needed. They already had what they wanted drawn up.

      I'm not supporting a conspiracy theory here because, having been in MI, I don't believe the U.S. government to be that proficient. I'm calling this crass opportunism at the expense of citizens these agencies are supposed to be protecting.

      Meh!

    3. Re:A real danger by TheAngryIntern · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's funny how they can get 50+ million people to vote for American Idol and probably less than half of those will vote in the presidential elections (of the ones who are old enough to vote, that is)

    4. Re:A real danger by TheAngryIntern · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's one of the major problems with this country.....everyone always adopts the attitude of "I could do this, but I'm just one person and it won't make a difference anyway, so I won't bother" I admit, I'm as guilty of it as the next person.

    5. Re:A real danger by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      because I'm not doing anything wrong and I've got nothing to hide.
      That's not what I hear. In fact, according to some people who know you very well, you have quite a bit to hide.

      See how easy that was?
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:A real danger by sm62704 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      everyone always adopts the attitude of "I could do this, but I'm just one person and it won't make a difference anyway, so I won't bother

      That's not being complacent or apathetic, it's being realistic. Face it, when Sony can write a check for ten million to the Democrat candidate and a ten million dollar check to the Republican candidate and ten million for media advertising, the media doesn't cover the Greens or Libertarians except to tell you that a vote for them is a wasted vote, and no matter which candidate loses, Sony wins, the American people lose, and there isn't a damned thing you or I can do about it except "waste our vote" on a "third party" candidate.

      Slashdot Republicans all accuse me of being a liberal and slashdot Democrats all accuse me of being a neocon, and I accuse both camps of being fools and stooges for the corporations that run both major parties. And in the end it doesn't matter at all because your vote is pretty much meaningless.

      But fool that I am, I still go to the polls and vote against the Demoicrats and Republicans.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    7. Re:A real danger by KGIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The sad thing is that there was a time when we voted FOR things. Now? We're just voting against them.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:A real danger by Chatterton · · Score: 5, Informative

      Recycling of an old post:

      'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy

      Abstract:
      In this short essay, written for a symposium in the San Diego Law Review, Professor Daniel Solove examines the nothing to hide argument. When asked about government surveillance and data mining, many people respond by declaring: I've got nothing to hide. According to the nothing to hide argument, there is no threat to privacy unless the government uncovers unlawful activity, in which case a person has no legitimate justification to claim that it remain private. The nothing to hide argument and its variants are quite prevalent, and thus are worth addressing. In this essay, Solove critiques the nothing to hide argument and exposes its faulty underpinnings.

      I've Got Nothing to Hide

  2. You know by hansraj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    that the state of affairs is bad when a news like this doesn't surprise you!

  3. National Security Letters in full: by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apparently the National Security Letters are 'F', 'U', 'C', 'K' and 'U'.

    --
    "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  4. Something in the woodshed by CmdrGravy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is something seriously wrong when an organisation charged with upholding the law and maintaining the moral society in which we all want to live feels it's acceptable to lie and cheat simply in order to grab more powers for its self.

    I can perfectly understand the agents desire for greater powers; "I know this guys a crook so why do I have to jump through all these damn hoops just to lock him away" but there should be leadership from the top which balances these needs with the needs of society and it's here the problem seems to lie with an administration unconcerned with the needs of the society and over focussed on 'improving' it's own machinery.

    I seriously hope the next US President is able to take charge of his apparatus properly and put it use for everyones good rather than fulfilling some dubious goals of your own because as I think we can clearly see now the wrong people in the Whitehouse can produce all sorts of nasty and counter productive behaviour even in areas they aren't directly interested in.

  5. fuck you, you fucking fascist by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck you for turning a story about the Director of the FBI deliberately lying to congress in order to get expanded, unsupervised super-subpoena powers into a left-right story.

    9/11 might have scared you to the point where you'll allow the government to do whatever they like with your private life. Many of us, however, aren't nearly so cowardly.

    Asshole.

  6. Re:Blogtastic. by zz5555 · · Score: 5, Informative

    You could have gone to eff.org and found the source on the front page, if you weren't too lazy to care about the United States. (Apologies if you aren't American.) But because you are so lazy, here's a link (hopefully, this works): http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/04/eff-issues-report-abuse-national-security-letter

  7. Re:Lied to congress...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lying to Congress is only a big deal if it's about something serious, like Steroid abuse, not something minor like abuse of executive power.

    I'd like to answer your question, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to claim executive privilege.

  8. FOIA by jfessler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, how long before FOIA is repealed? Anyone? Anyone?

    What always surprises me is that people working for these bodies, like the FBI, are more than willing to commit these deeds, and yet seem to have no thought toward destroying the evidence, let alone complying with a FOIA request.

    Or are we only seeing the violations committed by the stupid ones?

  9. Yes, It's Been Quite A Heck by Phoenix666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of a couple of weeks, hasn't it? The FBI faking evidence so that it can get Congress to give it the power to violate the Constitution over and over again. And this comes on top of revelations that the Vice President, National Security Advisor, and 4 other top members of the Administration actually sat in a room and choreographed how the CIA would torture people who fell into their clutches.

    And yet, there's no hollering and screaming in the public for heads to roll. The Democratic majority in Congress, our supposed check on this kind of abuse, still does not call for impeachment.'

    Soon, my friends, very soon, there will be little recourse but to converge on Washington DC and burn it to the ground.

    But in the small hope that that can be avoided, please call and write your Congresspeople and demand impeachment for these and all the many other crimes they've committed.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  10. Re:It's been longer than 7 years by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I believe that most people at the FBI are there out of a genuine desire to do good.

    A genuine desire to do good is not sufficient to avoid corruption. In fact it might make you more vulnerable to it, since you are able to rationalize away that corruption for being neccessary for greater good. When you bend the rules, or follow their letter while ignoring their spirit, you can silence your conscience; after all, you aren't pursuing your own good, but common good, so you aren't doing anything wrong.

    And of course once you've bent the rules just a little, there's no reason not to bend them just a tiny bit more, and then more, and then even more, until one day you are doing shit like the summary said - all the time having nothing but the best of intentions. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." That's one saying people working in intelligence agencies should really take to heart.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  11. Why this problem is only arising now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This will probably not get modded anywhere, but I thought someone at least deserved to know why this problem has arisen now.

    20 years ago I was working for a Western national security organisation. It was a great club. No one audited us, or checked what we were doing. Our budgets, which were not huge compared to other parts of government, were always cleared when we said the magic words "National Security - Hostile Intelligence Agents - Eastern Bloc".

    Then in 1990 the Berlin Wall came down, and by '94 we were suddenly being asked what we did with our money, and our budgets were being cut. Government committees started questioning our reason for existence.

    We needed a New Threat. Some people may think it a lucky coincidence that we found one so quickly, but I don't believe in coincidences...