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FBI Lied To Support Need For PATRIOT Act Expansion
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "It probably won't surprise you, but in 2005, the FBI manufactured evidence to get the power to issue National Security Letters under the PATRIOT Act. Unlike normal subpoenas, NSLs do not require probable cause and you're never allowed to talk about having received one, leading to a lack of accountability that caused them to be widely abused. The EFF has discovered via FOIA requests that an FBI field agent was forced by superiors to return papers he got via a lawful subpoena, then demand them again via an NSL (which was rejected for being unlawful at the time), and re-file the original subpoena to get them back. This delay in a supposedly critical anti-terror investigation then became a talking point used by FBI Director Robert Mueller when the FBI wanted to justify their need for the power to issue National Security Letters."
This is an excellent of example of why we need to be more vigilent and less complacent when it comes to government legislation. The fact that with no actual precedent for requiring stronger powers, the FBI would lie to get them, is a testament to the fact that everyone is susceptible to feeling, and succombing to, a hunger for power, even at the expense of the people they are meant to be serving.
There is a laziness in the way people react to such legislative measures - a laziness that ignores the very real danger that our comfortable Western democracies could fall in to dictatorship much more easily than people think.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
--Edmund Burke
Amnesty International
that the state of affairs is bad when a news like this doesn't surprise you!
Apparently the National Security Letters are 'F', 'U', 'C', 'K' and 'U'.
"It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
National Security Letters are awful because they are so secretive, and the fact that they don't need probable cause makes them constitutionally suspect.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
This is a perfect example of why we should not have blindly given our rights up. To all those people that say, "Hey, I am not doing anything wrong so why should I care if the government taps my phone", I say THIS is the reason. The "government" may have "good" intentions, but the people in government will use the power they are given for other reasons. Next thing you know it wire taps are looking for tax evasion tips, or drug deals. Heaven forbid a mistake is made and your phone is recorded because you said "bomb", as in "last night's concert was the bomb. hey did you score that sack?". Next thing you know your door is kicked in because the police got a "tip" you were buying drugs.
Golly. Talk about your basic police state.
I'm jolly glad that I live in the United Kingd.......
oh.
There is something seriously wrong when an organisation charged with upholding the law and maintaining the moral society in which we all want to live feels it's acceptable to lie and cheat simply in order to grab more powers for its self.
I can perfectly understand the agents desire for greater powers; "I know this guys a crook so why do I have to jump through all these damn hoops just to lock him away" but there should be leadership from the top which balances these needs with the needs of society and it's here the problem seems to lie with an administration unconcerned with the needs of the society and over focussed on 'improving' it's own machinery.
I seriously hope the next US President is able to take charge of his apparatus properly and put it use for everyones good rather than fulfilling some dubious goals of your own because as I think we can clearly see now the wrong people in the Whitehouse can produce all sorts of nasty and counter productive behaviour even in areas they aren't directly interested in.
Fuck you for turning a story about the Director of the FBI deliberately lying to congress in order to get expanded, unsupervised super-subpoena powers into a left-right story.
9/11 might have scared you to the point where you'll allow the government to do whatever they like with your private life. Many of us, however, aren't nearly so cowardly.
Asshole.
You could have gone to eff.org and found the source on the front page, if you weren't too lazy to care about the United States. (Apologies if you aren't American.) But because you are so lazy, here's a link (hopefully, this works): http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/04/eff-issues-report-abuse-national-security-letter
I wonder how long before we do that here to our police or air travelers?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=558597&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true
I guess we can change the motto to
The FBI lied, Rights died.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
But mom, I need NSL's. I need them or I'll DIE.
Who put these kids in charge?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Remember this the next time the so-called "good guys" explain how the sweeping new powers they need to defeat terrorists and save all the children and puppy dogs would never be abused.
These people have a sense of entitlement coupled with an iron-clad conviction that they're right and everybody else is wrong that makes them at least as dangerous to the long-term survival of democracy as any pack of terrorists.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Somewhere in heaven, he's wearing a dress and looking down with pride that his tradition of civil rights abuses, intimidation, and totalitarian thuggery was not forgotten after all.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
No search or seizure is reasonable unless determined by a court to derive from probable cause for the search or seizure.
NSLs are inherent violations of the Constitution. Every time, even when they're "properly" used. When they're not even used according to the FBI's rules, there is not even a flimsy excuse for violating the Constitution.
Thousands of times, as a matter of course, or on a whim. Mueller and every other official with their hands dirty from these crooked anti-American NSLs should be impeached immediately. And then charged with criminal penalties, then slammed in prison with the people they were charged with busting. Because they're all criminals. Some, like Mueller, far more dangerous than others.
In a slightly less civilized country (but one with perhaps more dignity), Mueller would have been hanged from a tree or ripped to shreds by an angry mob. He should be grateful that we have the decency to just throw him in jail.
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make install -not war
So, how long before FOIA is repealed? Anyone? Anyone?
What always surprises me is that people working for these bodies, like the FBI, are more than willing to commit these deeds, and yet seem to have no thought toward destroying the evidence, let alone complying with a FOIA request.
Or are we only seeing the violations committed by the stupid ones?
Which traitors would that be?
People using their telephone to call their relatives in the middle east?
Or the ones in the White House who have violated their sworn oath to "...preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." ?
Spidey!!!
With this NSL stunt, we see the entire Bush/Cheney Doctrine at its most blatant. The Doctrine is exploit any crisis first to expand Executive power far past Constitutional limits, without any accountability, then attend the crisis only so much as necessary to preserve those powers, then abuse them elsewhere without restraint. It's "Shock and Awe" for every occasion, especially domestically. Shocking and awful, though we're pretty numb to it by now, as the details finally start to leak out after years of digging by unsung heroes like the people at EFF.
You can look at any crisis, unexpected or manufactured, through the long 7 1/4 years of Bush/Cheney's presidency, and see that Doctrine hard at work (the only hard work done by the regime).
Or you can read Naomi Klein's book _The Shock Doctrine_ for the (literally) gory details.
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make install -not war
That's what I was thinking. On the other hand, if this is the kind of evidence that's left lying around, just imagine the contents of the documents that they've destroyed or don't acknowledge the existence of!
Of a couple of weeks, hasn't it? The FBI faking evidence so that it can get Congress to give it the power to violate the Constitution over and over again. And this comes on top of revelations that the Vice President, National Security Advisor, and 4 other top members of the Administration actually sat in a room and choreographed how the CIA would torture people who fell into their clutches.
And yet, there's no hollering and screaming in the public for heads to roll. The Democratic majority in Congress, our supposed check on this kind of abuse, still does not call for impeachment.'
Soon, my friends, very soon, there will be little recourse but to converge on Washington DC and burn it to the ground.
But in the small hope that that can be avoided, please call and write your Congresspeople and demand impeachment for these and all the many other crimes they've committed.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Yes. The problem was that NSLs were not legal. Had the school handed over the papers anyway, then he could have claimed that the NSL papers helped in this situation. Since the school did not hand over the papers, then they were able to claim that due process impeded their investigation.
And if they had thought about it, they could, just as logically have pointed out that the sun rose the next day, and claimed that it happened because the NSL papers made Jesus happy.
This is the way that empires have fallen in the past, and how they will fall in the future. Not by an invasion or war, but simply because they started rotting from the inside, corrupted by power.
For one, linking to a news summary of a publicly available testimony is why slashdot sucks nowadays.
The second laughable problem is that the FBI shouldn't need to justify the emergency. The director is correct. But they should be held accountable to what's done in such an emergency. If a police officer turns on his lights and sirens simply to run a red light and causes an accident, you get a fat check! The FBI doesn't need to demonstrate that it has an actual emergency, but does need to be held accountable to what it's done after the fact. The same concept applies to anyone or anything else. The cops don't pull you over randomly in your car and ask if you've been speeding because you aren't guilty until it's observed. You don't get shaken down on the street for assault and battery because you have a baseball bat.
This is why slashdot has gone to the dogs. Without linking to the original context of the testimony, you can't possibly hope to have any meaningful discussion. DON'T YOU LOVE SPIN?
To Soviet Russia ?
A genuine desire to do good is not sufficient to avoid corruption. In fact it might make you more vulnerable to it, since you are able to rationalize away that corruption for being neccessary for greater good. When you bend the rules, or follow their letter while ignoring their spirit, you can silence your conscience; after all, you aren't pursuing your own good, but common good, so you aren't doing anything wrong.
And of course once you've bent the rules just a little, there's no reason not to bend them just a tiny bit more, and then more, and then even more, until one day you are doing shit like the summary said - all the time having nothing but the best of intentions. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." That's one saying people working in intelligence agencies should really take to heart.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
You mean to tell me that the FBI is the evil FBI?! I'm shocked! Shocked!..Well not that shocked.
A subpoena is not a warrant, and demanding production of evidence is not a 'search' or 'seizure'
That happens when the feds show up at your house and turn over all of the furniture looking for evidence.
Basically, all they need to show for a subpoena is that the information or evidence sought is relevant to ongoing investigation
The practical difference between a NSL and a traditional subpoena is that the NSL can be issued by the FBI without requiring judicial review. Further, an NSL includes a built-in gag order while the judge would again have to rule on the appropriateness of sealing order and gagging the recipient.
This will probably not get modded anywhere, but I thought someone at least deserved to know why this problem has arisen now.
20 years ago I was working for a Western national security organisation. It was a great club. No one audited us, or checked what we were doing. Our budgets, which were not huge compared to other parts of government, were always cleared when we said the magic words "National Security - Hostile Intelligence Agents - Eastern Bloc".
Then in 1990 the Berlin Wall came down, and by '94 we were suddenly being asked what we did with our money, and our budgets were being cut. Government committees started questioning our reason for existence.
We needed a New Threat. Some people may think it a lucky coincidence that we found one so quickly, but I don't believe in coincidences...
That's not true at all. If the police are engaging in hot pursuit, they don't have to wait for a warrant to follow you (or anybody else) onto your property.
The health inspector or fire marshal doesn't need a warrant to inspect private property for code violations.
If there is active combat, say in a civil war, the army can enter your house without permission for combat purposes, either to seek combatants or to use it as a vantage point. This is one reason why Americans ought to be very concerned about blurring the definition of "combat" and "combatant".
The Fourth Amendment says that searches need only be "reasonable". It's presumptively unreasonable to search or seize in circumstances where a warrant is customarily required. However, if you can show that under the circumstances delaying to seek a warrant would be unreasonable, you don't need one, although you have to prove this, and may face challenges to evidence you introduce into criminal trials.
The flip side is that having a warrant issued on probable cause makes a search presumptively reasonable, but there are exceptions. If the warrant is not sufficiently narrowly tailored to the evidence supporting probable cause, or you exceed its specific limitations, then your search or seizure is unreasonable, warrant notwithstanding.
So, the Fourth Amendment is both stronger and weaker than people think it is. It is certainly not reasonable to play linguistic games to make a search appear "reasonable". Calling a person a "combatant" isn't enough to convert an unconstitutional search into a constitutional one, because it is the substance of the circumstances that matter. If you're shooting at people out of your window, it is the necessity of protecting people that makes entering your home, searching it, and detaining you reasonable, not the label the police apply to you.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Have you ever wondered what was going through people's heads in Russia when the Committee for State Security began monitoring its own citizens? Early on I'm sure there were little news blurbs like this one. Then over time, people probably began to accept the necessity of this surveillance. Wikipedia has recognized this trend and accurately compares Russia's Committee for State Security to our own FBI.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
We're never encouraged to think about the motivations of people in power who want to keep all their funding. Which is why we need to.
My mother has received an amazing number of write-in votes in the last 20 years. And ya know what? Even though she didn't get elected, I still feel good knowing that she could do ANY of those jobs I voted her for.
Some of my friends have been known to vote for her too...