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Bird Navigation Based On Quantum Zeno Effect

Posted by kdawson on from the schroedinger's-parrot dept.

KentuckyFC writes "How birds use the Earth's magnetic field to navigate has puzzled researchers for decades. In recent years, a growing body of evidence has pointed to the possibility that a weak magnetic field can influence the outcome of a certain type of chemical reaction involving the recombination of pairs of ions in bird retinas. The trouble is that the ion recombination is known to happen too quickly for the Earth's weak magnetic field to have any effect. Now it looks as if the quantum Zeno effect explains all, says one researcher (abstract). This is the watched-pot-never-boils effect in which the act of observing a quantum system maintains it for longer than expected. That's extraordinary news because it means a quantum sensor is determining the macroscopic behavior of living birds."

13 of 96 comments (clear)

  1. Weird by MBCook · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, from reading the article, the birds observing the chemical reaction, thus slowing it down long enough for the magnetic field of the Earth to have a detectable effect when it shouldn't.

    Quantum mechanics is so weird. Neat!

    But when the researchers looked for this, shouldn't that looking have caused the metaphorical pot to be watched thus inducing the effect, or had no one tried to measure this simply because they knew the reaction didn't take long enough (or shouldn't, ignoring quantum mechanics)?

    Bonus questions: The article said that had proved this by using a strong electric field to alter the way this reaction goes. Would it be possible to inject something into the birds that would prevent them from "watching" this reaction, so it would go at it's "normal" speed?

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    1. Re:Weird by aleph42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But when the researchers looked for this, shouldn't that looking have caused the metaphorical pot to be watched thus inducing the effect, or had no one tried to measure this simply because they knew the reaction didn't take long enough (or shouldn't, ignoring quantum mechanics)?

      I didn't have any serious courses on quantum-anything, but I think you are taking this way to
      "philosophically". "Observation" here actually just means interaction with a nearby atom.

      I think that the idea is that the atom is in an "undefined" state (or rather, multiple states at once), and that having an interaction (which should depend on the state) forces it to chose between states. Once this happens (in the bird's retina), I don't think any further interaction can affect anything, and certainly not something as indirect as a human looking at the bird.
      Confusion arise because of the words "observation", "retina" and looking" in the same topic.

      That said, I had the impression that those kind of quantum weirdness (like the living-dead cat) were a good hint that those thing can never scale up to act uppon the "regular" world, were everything is a result of statistics (like air pressure which is the statistical sum of random movement). A good exemple is how intricated atoms could theorically convert information at faster than light speed, but if you actually want to use it then the observation equipement needed will keep you under light speed (and it's not something you can get around). So if this turns out to be true, I will be quite amased.

      Bonus questions: The article said that had proved this by using a strong electric field to alter the way this reaction goes. Would it be possible to inject something into the birds that would prevent them from "watching" this reaction, so it would go at it's "normal" speed?

      Good idea! Let's stick the large electromagnet in the bird's retina, then watch to see if it's flying paterns are different! ;)
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    2. Re:Weird by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 4, Funny
      If I have learned anything in my life worth knowing is that the universe than we want to give it credit for.

      The one thing you've learned in your life, and it makes no sense. That must be depressing. Or maybe it's deeply philosophical.

  2. I have a question... by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is this a first? Are there any other known instances of quantum mechanics influencing the macroscopic behavior of anything else? Butterflies, for example? And what happens when the poles shift?

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    1. Re:I have a question... by zappepcs · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A damned good question. Could changing magnetic fields of the Earth and the Sun be the cause of the bee syndrome that is killing some 30% of all commercial bees in North America?

      Bees, like birds, just don't seem to get lost very often... until now. There seems to be no practical explanation of why the bees are disappearing. This might do it. Given that bees are smaller, perhaps the effects are greater on bees? Did the article give any clue as to how the volume of chemical might affect the interactions?

      Quite interesting. Given the story of evolution, and knowing that many animals use electromagnetic and quantum type navigation, how likely is it that humans have some similar capabilities?

      Not to get too whacked, but does any of this go anywhere toward explaining ghosts etc?

      All good stuff

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    2. Re:I have a question... by peragrin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually the bee problem is mostly identified with pollution. Air born pollution is limiting the range that pollen and other floral scents travel in the air thus limiting the mobility of bees.

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    3. Re:I have a question... by johannesg · · Score: 4, Funny

      The lifecycle of cats is also determined by quantum mechanics.

    4. Re:I have a question... by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... So says a 4 day old slashdot article. Next week we're going to have an article on how the sinking of the titanic influenced thermal currents in the atlantic, reducing El Nino's effect in the pacific, thus causing plants to flower before bees have come completely out of hibernation, leading to starvation.
       
      Clearly, since this is the most recent theory, all previous theories are deeply flawed.

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  3. No need for a quantum sensor... by GrosTuba · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Dude, we know how birds navigate: they follow roads.

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    1. Re:No need for a quantum sensor... by SpeedBump0619 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What color are most roads? What do dark colors do in sunlight? What happens when air heats up? What's the easiest way for a bird to stay aloft?

      Lets all say it together...correllation != causality.

  4. Cool! by thecountryofmike · · Score: 3, Funny

    Schrodinger's Pigeon?!?!

  5. New class of electronic devices. by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow. I want to see the full paper.

    If this is for real, there's a whole new class of electronic devices waiting to be developed. The Zeno effect has been observed experimentally, but only down near absolute zero. If it can be observed at room temperature, it could be useful.

  6. Re:Yes. Chlorophyll by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quantum effect this, quantum effect that. The fact that your head doesn't fall off is a quantum effect, without which electrons, protons and neutrons couldn't possibly form stable structures. Everything on a small enough scale is a "quantum effect". Saying that chlorophyll works by means of a quantum effect is like saying that computers rely on a one-is-bigger-than-zero effect.

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