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Bird Navigation Based On Quantum Zeno Effect

Posted by kdawson on from the schroedinger's-parrot dept.

KentuckyFC writes "How birds use the Earth's magnetic field to navigate has puzzled researchers for decades. In recent years, a growing body of evidence has pointed to the possibility that a weak magnetic field can influence the outcome of a certain type of chemical reaction involving the recombination of pairs of ions in bird retinas. The trouble is that the ion recombination is known to happen too quickly for the Earth's weak magnetic field to have any effect. Now it looks as if the quantum Zeno effect explains all, says one researcher (abstract). This is the watched-pot-never-boils effect in which the act of observing a quantum system maintains it for longer than expected. That's extraordinary news because it means a quantum sensor is determining the macroscopic behavior of living birds."

25 of 96 comments (clear)

  1. Weird by MBCook · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, from reading the article, the birds observing the chemical reaction, thus slowing it down long enough for the magnetic field of the Earth to have a detectable effect when it shouldn't.

    Quantum mechanics is so weird. Neat!

    But when the researchers looked for this, shouldn't that looking have caused the metaphorical pot to be watched thus inducing the effect, or had no one tried to measure this simply because they knew the reaction didn't take long enough (or shouldn't, ignoring quantum mechanics)?

    Bonus questions: The article said that had proved this by using a strong electric field to alter the way this reaction goes. Would it be possible to inject something into the birds that would prevent them from "watching" this reaction, so it would go at it's "normal" speed?

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    1. Re:Weird by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually this reminds me of those Old machines that old astronomers used to try to explain how the heavens worked. Before we knew that we weren't the center of the universe... before the understanding of retrograde motion, they just kept adding gears to these things to make it work closer and closer to what they saw. They thought the answer to everything was "It must be more complex than what we understand". If I have learned anything in my life worth knowing is that the universe than we want to give it credit for.

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    2. Re:Weird by aleph42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But when the researchers looked for this, shouldn't that looking have caused the metaphorical pot to be watched thus inducing the effect, or had no one tried to measure this simply because they knew the reaction didn't take long enough (or shouldn't, ignoring quantum mechanics)?

      I didn't have any serious courses on quantum-anything, but I think you are taking this way to
      "philosophically". "Observation" here actually just means interaction with a nearby atom.

      I think that the idea is that the atom is in an "undefined" state (or rather, multiple states at once), and that having an interaction (which should depend on the state) forces it to chose between states. Once this happens (in the bird's retina), I don't think any further interaction can affect anything, and certainly not something as indirect as a human looking at the bird.
      Confusion arise because of the words "observation", "retina" and looking" in the same topic.

      That said, I had the impression that those kind of quantum weirdness (like the living-dead cat) were a good hint that those thing can never scale up to act uppon the "regular" world, were everything is a result of statistics (like air pressure which is the statistical sum of random movement). A good exemple is how intricated atoms could theorically convert information at faster than light speed, but if you actually want to use it then the observation equipement needed will keep you under light speed (and it's not something you can get around). So if this turns out to be true, I will be quite amased.

      Bonus questions: The article said that had proved this by using a strong electric field to alter the way this reaction goes. Would it be possible to inject something into the birds that would prevent them from "watching" this reaction, so it would go at it's "normal" speed?

      Good idea! Let's stick the large electromagnet in the bird's retina, then watch to see if it's flying paterns are different! ;)
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    3. Re:Weird by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 4, Funny
      If I have learned anything in my life worth knowing is that the universe than we want to give it credit for.

      The one thing you've learned in your life, and it makes no sense. That must be depressing. Or maybe it's deeply philosophical.

    4. Re:Weird by PoliTech · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are." Zen saying

    5. Re:Weird by laxpeter · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sure there's a simple explanation.

  2. I have a question... by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is this a first? Are there any other known instances of quantum mechanics influencing the macroscopic behavior of anything else? Butterflies, for example? And what happens when the poles shift?

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    1. Re:I have a question... by zappepcs · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A damned good question. Could changing magnetic fields of the Earth and the Sun be the cause of the bee syndrome that is killing some 30% of all commercial bees in North America?

      Bees, like birds, just don't seem to get lost very often... until now. There seems to be no practical explanation of why the bees are disappearing. This might do it. Given that bees are smaller, perhaps the effects are greater on bees? Did the article give any clue as to how the volume of chemical might affect the interactions?

      Quite interesting. Given the story of evolution, and knowing that many animals use electromagnetic and quantum type navigation, how likely is it that humans have some similar capabilities?

      Not to get too whacked, but does any of this go anywhere toward explaining ghosts etc?

      All good stuff

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    2. Re:I have a question... by peragrin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually the bee problem is mostly identified with pollution. Air born pollution is limiting the range that pollen and other floral scents travel in the air thus limiting the mobility of bees.

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    3. Re:I have a question... by johannesg · · Score: 4, Funny

      The lifecycle of cats is also determined by quantum mechanics.

    4. Re:I have a question... by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... So says a 4 day old slashdot article. Next week we're going to have an article on how the sinking of the titanic influenced thermal currents in the atlantic, reducing El Nino's effect in the pacific, thus causing plants to flower before bees have come completely out of hibernation, leading to starvation.
       
      Clearly, since this is the most recent theory, all previous theories are deeply flawed.

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    5. Re:I have a question... by tuxgeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe we're over anal-izing the question. From my own observations as sort of an amateur hobbyist zoologist/ornithologist, birds have brains and memory retention, ie, they posses the ability to learn. Perhaps it's just a matter of older birds remember the way to go and the rest follow and learn the landmarks, to someday become the leader of the migration as well.

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    6. Re:I have a question... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apparently the effect is sensitive to only a narrow window of magnetic field strengths, so if something significantly affects the field then the birds get lost. We've had birds through several reversals which argues that birds won't go extinct when it happens again.

    7. Re:I have a question... by Inverted+Intellect · · Score: 2

      The wording "mostly identified with" hardly implies that all previous explanations are "deeply flawed".

      Clearly, since the article in question is only 4 days old your parent poster can't have formed a well reasoned opinion on the matter.

  3. No need for a quantum sensor... by GrosTuba · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Dude, we know how birds navigate: they follow roads.

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    1. Re:No need for a quantum sensor... by SpeedBump0619 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What color are most roads? What do dark colors do in sunlight? What happens when air heats up? What's the easiest way for a bird to stay aloft?

      Lets all say it together...correllation != causality.

    2. Re:No need for a quantum sensor... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thus explaining why birds weren't practical until the early 1900s.

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  4. Cool! by thecountryofmike · · Score: 3, Funny

    Schrodinger's Pigeon?!?!

  5. call ben stein by uberjoe · · Score: 2, Funny
    And cue the ID folks claiming irreducible complexity in

    3...

    2...

    1...

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  6. New class of electronic devices. by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow. I want to see the full paper.

    If this is for real, there's a whole new class of electronic devices waiting to be developed. The Zeno effect has been observed experimentally, but only down near absolute zero. If it can be observed at room temperature, it could be useful.

  7. Yes. Chlorophyll by oni · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Chlorophyll works by means of Resonance Energy Transfer and that's also a quantum effect - though admittedly, not as cool as the bird navigation thing.

    I'd be willing to bet that this didn't evolve in birds. A lot of animals perform long distance migrations. In fact, I bet that this sense is found in most animals. We apes are probably the exception. We probably lost it while swinging from trees. But the genes are probably still there. So, one day you might be able to turn this on in your children.

  8. Every chemical sensor is a "quantum sensor" by GroeFaZ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    because every seonsor has to obey the rules of quantum mechanics. The only difference being which theory is sufficient to explain a certain effect.

    Even if pointing this out may be a bit boring, people should stop mystifiying Science and speak of it as cavemen would grunt of a lightning storm. There's absolutely nothing mysterious about Science, that's the whole point of Science to begin with.

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    1. Re:Every chemical sensor is a "quantum sensor" by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most sensors don't directly make use of specifically quantum effects. They can be described purely in classical terms.

      It's like saying that my car is a relativistic vehicle. Sure, it obeys the theories of relativity, but Newton is more than enough to describe it.

      Or describing my notebook as a quantum computer.

      When people (even non-physicists) talk about quantum mechanical effects, its accepted that they're talking about UNIQUELY quantum mechanical effects. If you see some sort of mysticism in that then that's your misunderstanding.

  9. What do birds see? by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm intrigued that this effect happens in avian retinas. Do birds actually *see* magnetic north and south? As in, everything to the north is tinted one color, and everything to the south is tinted another hue?

    Fascinating. Birds (and possibly dinosaurs) see the world as one gigantic rave. Sometimes I feel I'm missing too much by being born human.

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  10. Re:Yes. Chlorophyll by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quantum effect this, quantum effect that. The fact that your head doesn't fall off is a quantum effect, without which electrons, protons and neutrons couldn't possibly form stable structures. Everything on a small enough scale is a "quantum effect". Saying that chlorophyll works by means of a quantum effect is like saying that computers rely on a one-is-bigger-than-zero effect.

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