Slashdot Mirror


Cloned Sniffer Dogs Begin Training

H0D_G writes "The Australian Broadcasting Corporation reports that the world's first cloned sniffer dogs have begun their training in South Korea. The dogs, cloned from a successful golden retriever sniffer dog, were the result of a $320,000 AUD project."

44 comments

  1. First Soviet Joke.... by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

    In Soviet South Korea, you sniff dogs!

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    1. Re:First Soviet Joke.... by OrochimaruVoldemort · · Score: 1

      north korea is the communist state, you insensitive clod.

      --
      If people can get past, can they get future? Best way to confuse a stoner
    2. Re:First Soviet Joke.... by Metasquares · · Score: 1

      In Soviet North Korea, dogs clone YOU?

    3. Re:First Soviet Joke.... by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      Well, how about:

      In South Korea only old people sniff dogs?

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
  2. And they know this how? by techpawn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Project manager Lim Jae-Yong said that training the clones of a skilled sniffer dog is easier than training ordinary canines
    "The project was successful. This is the first time that cloned dogs have been used as sniffer dogs," he said.
    Shouldn't that read that they BELIEVE training a cloned dog to be a sniffer will be easier. These are their first ones, how do they know if it's easier or if each dog is different just with the same genes (like twins)
    --
    Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    1. Re:And they know this how? by keysersoze_sec · · Score: 1

      I think it justs says that training cloned sniffer dogs (that were derived fom a skilled specimen) is easier than training dogs which lack their genes (thus "ordinary").

    2. Re:And they know this how? by techpawn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But, how do they KNOW this? It says it's their first batch of puppies to try this on...

      That's like saying you can clone Wayne Gretzky and know you'll get a great hockey player. You don't, you just know you have someone with the same DNA. If that's the case, then it's a case of nature vs. nurture and even then you're not assured that all your clone will be the exact same as "the Great One"

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    3. Re:And they know this how? by kaens · · Score: 1

      Maybe they tried it already, and someone's just got a case of loose lips.

    4. Re:And they know this how? by techpawn · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I'll chalk it up to one of three things:
      1. 1) They don't know and they misspoke
      2. 2) It's mistranslated into English
      3. 3) They've tried training dogs of other types (i.e. Attack Dogs NOT Sniffers)
      Personally, I'm leaning to 1 or 2... Still erks me...
      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
  3. In Korea by Timesprout · · Score: 1

    training a sniffer dog means serving lightly sauted with a side order of rice and vegetables.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  4. The only problem by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only problem I see with using cloned animals for a task like this, is that they will only ever be so good. Assuming the genetic make-up and training is the same for all these dogs, and that they have a proficiency of X, then you will never get a dog that is better than X (by some margin). If you use selective breeding to try and produce better and better dogs with each generation, you could end up with a better product in the end.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    1. Re:The only problem by techpawn · · Score: 1

      If you use selective breeding to try and produce better and better dogs with each generation, you could end up with a better product in the end.
      Yes, but what do you do with all of the puppies that don't quite meet your expectations? This has been a problem with dog breeders for a while. The Corgi has a mutation for a long haired version that some breeders would put down soon after the puppy was born. Or so I was told by someone once in the dog show world.
      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    2. Re:The only problem by LordSkippy · · Score: 0

      Kahn?

      --
      My karma is in a nose dive
    3. Re:The only problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One can always go ahead and mate the clones to "wild" (i.e. non-cloned) stocks and then assess the offspring, right? (Unless they are sterilized for IP control purposes but that's a different issue.)

    4. Re:The only problem by The-Bus · · Score: 1

      Well, let's say the clone's proficiency (x) is 0.8. I assume if they picked this one dog, he was the Michael Jordan of drug-sniffing dogs: a statistical outlier. Maybe most dogs have an x value of 0.5 or 0.4. Even with breeding, they can only hope to raise this average to 0.55 or 0.6. So this dog is a much quicker solution to their problem.

      Maybe it will have the same problem Michael Keaton's character had in the movie Multiplicity. Copies of copies get dull and suddenly you've got a dog that's as good at tracking as a Chihuaha. Which I guess explains why the Storm Troopers were such poor shots.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    5. Re:The only problem by porcupine8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You're still going to have that problem with clones. Small differences in prenatal conditions, one puppy getting more milk than another, random mutations - there will be some cloned dogs who aren't as good at it as the original, possibly quite bad at it. What will they do with those dogs?

      Fun fact: Identical twins raised apart tend to be extremely, even eerily similar - as adults they often have the same careers, the same hobbies, dress similarly, etc. You'd think this was an argument for everything being highly genetically determined. However, identical twins raised together are NOT as similar as those raised apart - because they've grown up needing to assert their own identity separate from their twin. The differences in identical twins raised together shows how much environment has an impact.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    6. Re:The only problem by Narpak · · Score: 1

      I reckon the scientists could vary the amount and type of food and training the dogs get; thus over time get empiric data from potentially hundreds, if not thousands, of genetically identical specimens. In due course I am confident cloning could answer many questions about Genetics Vs Environment.

    7. Re:The only problem by techpawn · · Score: 1

      Then why clone unless it's to "progress science". We have an overpopulation of domesticated pets as it is. If it was to "progress science" why not create one in your controlled environment to prove/disprove your hypnosis that training them will be easier then bred dogs?

      Oh, yeah, large government contract that says you cannot fail to give us X sniffer dogs.

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    8. Re:The only problem by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      Which I guess explains why the Storm Troopers were such poor shots. I've always wondered that, and now thanks to you I know :)
      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    9. Re:The only problem by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but what do you do with all of the puppies that don't quite meet your expectations? Well, they send horses to the dog food factory. I modestly propose sending those extra puppies to the horse food factory.
      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    10. Re:The only problem by Hojima · · Score: 1

      For one, I hope you know that clones can't degrade. Second, for the funds they put into it, a selective breeding program would be more successful. Remember, proficiency in sniffing can be more comparable to hight, rather than skill in basketball. With that respect, the dog would be comparable to nearly all basketball players (that are above 6'4" lets say). With that in mind, you can see how it's easier to find tall people than it is to clone them (especially if you could selectively breed them).

    11. Re:The only problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about the wastage in the cloning process destroying many "non viable" puppys

  5. Why? by Conspicuous+Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would you do this? I don't understand.

    Maybe my information is out of date, but last I checked cloning of mammals is still a massively expensive process with a stupidly high failure rate (95%+ of embryos fail to develop into live young). Even when the cloned embryos develop to adulthood there are usually significant defects. What effect these defects might have on the animal in later life, or what problems might arise if these clones breed with normal dogs are both still largely unknown.

    So why do this? It seems a ridiculously expensive, unreliable and dangerous way to try and go about breeding better dogs for a pretty trivial purpose. This technology is being mass marketed before it's even close to being ready for prime time.

    1. Re:Why? by AmonEzhno · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The issue, as I understand it from a friend who trains dogs for the TSA, the issue with training current sniffer dogs is that only about 1 in a few hundred of the potential dogs fits the profile they need. They look for dogs with obsessive personalities and dogs that have a very strong attachment to a specific item(toy). They use this toy they are fascinated with and use certain methods of conditioning to tie the scents of whatever the dog is trained to sniff out to the toy. So the hope with the cloned dogs I would suspect is that they think the personality traits of these dogs might be a genetic predisposition. So in other words if it works out, even 95% fail rate is better than the 99+% chance that they have to find a dog through normal screening methods.

    2. Re:Why? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      So why do this? It seems a ridiculously expensive, unreliable and dangerous way to try and go about breeding better dogs for a pretty trivial purpose. This technology is being mass marketed before it's even close to being ready for prime time.

      Well I don't have any figures with which to do a cost/benefit analysis, but I do know that finding a good sniffer dog is not necessarily trivial. While your average dog has a sense of smell vastly superior to our own, and could probably serve well enough on Podunk U.S.A's police force, there's still a lot of variance and an extremely good sniffer is a rare find. Being able to clone those with the desirable traits may have some advantages, even over breeding the successful ones.

      On the other hand, I could be wrong, I don't think they are really "mass marketing" this. It sounds like it's a small-scale government-funded research project, basically a feasibility study to see if it is possible and has good results. I don't get the impression that they're planning on staffing SK's entire police force with cloned dogs any time soon.

      It's basic research into cloning, with the side benefit that the end result (these few animals) can be put to immediate practical use. At least that's my take on it.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    3. Re:Why? by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      Maybe my information is out of date, but last I checked cloning of mammals is still a massively expensive process with a stupidly high failure rate (95%+ of embryos fail to develop into live young). Even when the cloned embryos develop to adulthood there are usually significant defects.

      The program cost a mere $320 000 AUD and they have dogs which are presumably not slavering mutants or they wouldn't bother trying to train them, so it doesn't seem particularly expensive or error-prone so far. They're not adults yet, so perhaps bad things will eventually happen, but if you're going to clone animals to see how they get on it seems to me to be a good idea to cone useful ones with unique characteristics which will be operating in a closely monitored role with a well-defined benchmark (the, erm, parent? donor? clonee?).

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
  6. Sit, Ubu, sit... by djones101 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Good dog!

    1. Re:Sit, Ubu, sit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ruff!

    2. Re:Sit, Ubu, sit... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Good dog!
      Pets both heads
      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  7. Hoax? by WK2 · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a hoax. The idea is impractical, not particularly beneficial, and expensive. Clon-aid, anyone?

    --
    Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
  8. Breed name correction by andphi · · Score: 2, Informative

    The BBC reported them as cloned Labrador Retrievers, rather than cloned Golden Retrievers.

    1. Re:Breed name correction by pete-classic · · Score: 1

      Could be worse, could have been mistaken for kagogi.

      -Peter

  9. One step further by Narpak · · Score: 1

    Consider it practice; and as they say practice makes perfect. As they continue to clone and train the dogs they are sure to learn a great deal about the process. Greater understanding combined with advances in other areas (like genetic manipulation) could potentially lead to the development of a (pardon the phrase); super sniffer. Not to mention that any lesson learned would probably be transferable to the development of any other specialized dog (or other animal).

    Now I will not judge if this is good or bad, but I reckon the age of Designed Animals is probably inevitable and not too far away.

    1. Re:One step further by TheWolfen · · Score: 1

      the age of Designed Animals is probably inevitable and not too far away. I fear you are right and it horrifies me. It is bad enough we have millions of unwanted pets being killed every year because of people won't spay/neuter, backyard breeders, puppy mills and other irresponsible breeders - now we've got to add cloned pets to the mix!!

      Just what we needed! /sarcasm
  10. Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    4) you're nitpicking a point that the rest of us understand quite well, but you're too ignorant and intellectually deficient to get.

    I'm guaranteeing it's #4.

  11. Korean dog! Mmm... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    Tastes like chicken!

    --
    That is all.
  12. RTFA by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

    The Toppies have passed the first round of tests for behavioural patterns and genetic qualities, it said.

    "They will report for duty in June after completing a second round of training," Customs spokesman Lee Ho told AFP. Emphasis added. So, basically, these clones have undergone at least one round of training, with results good enough that they are confident the animals will pass the second set and be deployed, and causing the project manager to say that they were easier to train than "ordinary" dogs.

    Sure, you can say the jury is out until they have fully trained the dogs, deployed them, and examined their service records after several years. Or gone through the process with many batches of cloned sniffers. Nevertheless as a preliminary statement the claim that the clones are easier to train is not fundamentally without merit, after all who would be better able to judge the ease with which dogs are trained than the trainers?

    If the project manager is exaggerating for the sake of his project, that's a different thing, but it's not like they don't know anything about these dogs.
    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
    1. Re:RTFA by techpawn · · Score: 1

      I did and it read that the first test where that they had the proper personality and genetics. As in dog breeding you want a dog to have the correct dog genes and actions for the breed. I didn't take it that the cloned dogs where past a round of tests for ability to train other than to make sure they are not retarded Golden Retrievers.

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    2. Re:RTFA by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      As in dog breeding you want a dog to have the correct dog genes and actions for the breed.

      But this isn't just dog breeding, this is training for a specific field. They're not just checking that the dog has the proper coloration and temperament for their breed. Much like with seeing-eye dogs or police dogs, the most basic check involves a degree of training to ensure that they are capable of learning what is necessary. "Behavioral patterns" is more complex when you're talking about a potential professional canine.

      I didn't take it that the cloned dogs where past a round of tests for ability to train other than to make sure they are not retarded Golden Retrievers.

      Well since they said they had trained them and found them easier, maybe you should have taken it that way.

      Again, maybe the project manager is exaggerating, but to assume that they are contradicting themselves by saying they have trained the dogs when you take another statement to mean that they haven't, seems unfounded. More likely your assumption is wrong.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  13. Re:Korean dog! Mmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, that's about as intelligent as your homepage.

  14. In related news... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    The original dog started acting strangely and had to be put down after sniffing his own ass on the cloned dog.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  15. Sniffer dog . . . by base3 · · Score: 1

    . . . does it bark when it smells suspicious traffic on the wire?

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
  16. "Seven cloned puppies named Toppy" by Sody · · Score: 1

    This is my brother Toppy. This is my other brother Toppy. This...

    (Of course naming a puppy "Toppy" for "tomorrow's puppy" doesn't make sense at all. As anyone who has ever gotten a puppy knows, today's puppy is tomorrow's DOG.)

  17. breeding/adopting by gsmraxe · · Score: 1

    The dogs, cloned from a successful golden retriever sniffer dog, were the result of a $320,000 AUD project."

    It would be cheaper to go to a shelter and pay $50-70 per dog and train them. Even if only 1 out of 10 get through the training, it's under a grand for the dogs, and however much for human pay to train them. Or, if they are so inclined breed a good bitch and male and train the puppies.

    If I cloned my last dog (rott/lab mix) who sadly passed away 2-22-08 at age 12, there's no guarantee that I would get the same dog with the same qualities/personality.