FBI Renews Push for ISP Data Retention Laws

mytrip brings us a news.com story about the FBI's efforts to make records of users' activities available to law enforcement for a much longer time. Several members of Congress also lent their support to the idea that such data retention should be mandatory for a period of up to 2 years. Quoting: "Based on the statements at Wednesday's hearing and previous calls for new laws in this area, the scope of a mandatory data retention law remains fuzzy. It could mean forcing companies to store data for two years about what Internet addresses are assigned to which customers (Comcast said in 2006 that it would be retaining those records for six months). Or it could be far more intrusive. It could mean keeping track of e-mail and instant messaging correspondents and what Web pages users visit. Some Democratic politicians have called for data retention laws to extend to domain name registries and Web hosting companies and even social networking sites."

Comments

That means phone calls too, right?

[badboy_tw2002]

Particularly the phone calls of our congressmen and presidents to lobbyists and such, top secret or not. As long as that provision is on the bill I'm fine with it because you know it will never ever ever get passed.

Re:That means phone calls too, right?

[Duradin]

Politicians make the laws so they don't have to be subject to them.

It would be madness to expect them to be subject to the same laws that we, the masses, are.

We drink and drive and we get a ticket, jail time and sky high insurance rates.

They drink and drive and the cops give them a ride home.

We kill someone and it is jail time.

They kill someone and they get re-elected.

Social order would be destroyed if there weren't paragons of non-virtue standing tall upon the backs of the masses.

Re:That means phone calls too, right?

[nihongomanabu]

There's already law on the books saying that presidential email are public record and need to be preserved. However, the current administration seems to have *forgotten* this little fact.

Clog those logs

[Teran9]

If web page requests are added to logging I'll start running an idle process on my router that crawls the web. I might just do that anyway.

I am not 'their' citizen...

[TheLazySci-FiAuthor]

...they are MY government.

At least I thought this is supposed to be 'my' government. If it were, then why can't I see everything they are doing? Why when documents are 'declassified' is 90% of the text blanked-out?

It's for my own good? Well, how can I refute that when I have no evidence, and no evidence can be obtained.

One of those double-binds, eh?

I remember reading somewhere...

[kurt555gs]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "

Now , where was that? , I can't quite place it, maybe it was in a fairy tale my mom read me as a child?

Oh well, I know that I remember it from somewhere.

Cheers

Re:I remember reading somewhere...

[Uncle Focker]

That document version has been phased out for the 2.0 version.

Re:I remember reading somewhere...

[EMeta]

Not that I agree with the proposal, but it doesn't relate to the 6th Amendment particularly. The FBI wants the ability to get a warrant for the information if they find they may need it, up to 2 years later. ISPs would imply alter where they put these numbers to permanent storage (if they don't already; they very well may).

The significant dangers of this proposal come from the FBI (and others) not abiding by constitutional protections. The fact that this proposal would make it easier for them to do bad things doesn't change the inherent constitutionality of the proposal.

Re:I remember reading somewhere...

[AlHunt]

The only hope for taking our country back is to recompile our government from the source code and start again. Have you ever been at a point in a project where you just have to stop and reassess why you're doing things the way you are? Project America needs a serious rethink.

Re:I remember reading somewhere...

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like a good idea, but the last time someone tried for fork Project America, there was a good deal of bloodshed. The Project America leads tend to act like Theo when they get crossed...

Re:I remember reading somewhere...

[bendodge]

Project America needs a serious rethink. Like a Ron Paul.

Re:I remember reading somewhere...

[ScreamingCactus]

Dear Technical Support: I recently upgraded from The Govt OS ver 1.7.7.6 (beta) to the latest release, Govt ver 2.0.0.8, and I noticed a few unexpected changes. For one thing, I have noticed that many of my favorite programs (most of which are the reason I bought the OS to begin with) will no longer run, or only run in a crippled state with most of their features disabled. These include Bill of Rights v1.17, Due Process v3.02, and Privacy v6.9. I've also noticed that this new Govt ver 2 is full of bloatware like Evil Coporation 6, Big Brother v19.84, and Bush Administration v2.0. I opened task manager and noticed that Govt 2 has spawned several background processes, like War.Iraq, Phone.Tap, and Irresponsible.Spending, which seem to be interfering with my previously installed programs. I've been thinking about going back to Govt 1.7, but the uninstall feature doesn't work. Please help, Worried Citizen Dear Worried Citizen: This is a common problem. What most people don't understand about Govt v1.7.7.6 is that it really wasn't an OS. It was merely an extension built on the backbone of the previous OS, WeThePeople. Govt v2.0.0.8 has completely phased out WeThePeople, and now runs standalone (much like the upgrade to Windows 98). Unfortunately it is not possible to uninstall this OS as it overwrites the boot sector. We suggest installing background applications Pay_Taxes and Support_Troops. Although these processes will help to smooth operation, every so often you will have to run the command C:\Vote. While this command may help to reset corrupted processes, unfortunately this OS is still not designed to run your older programs. However, Govt 2 comes with it's OWN version of these these applications, combined into a suite called Illusion of Security, which attempts to emulate some of those features. Warning! Do not, under any circumstances, install Anarchy 3.1, this program causes irreversible damage to the OS. Good luck, Fox News

democrats?

[TheGratefulNet]

Some Democratic politicians have called for data retention laws to extend to domain name registries and Web hosting companies and even social networking sites.

I thought we had established the republicans as the evil enemy.

you mean the democrats are also evil?

data retention is for spying. spying is ALWAYS a crime against man and fundamentally evil. data retention will come back to bite you, make no mistake about it. this is worrying (but sadly not unexpected).

still, no matter how bad it gets, it could only be worse in australia or england (I'm NOT kidding about that, either).

Re:democrats?

[Uncle Focker]

Also lending their support for data retention were Rep. Ric Keller, R-Fla., who said that Internet chat rooms were crammed with sexual predators, and Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, the senior Republican on the House Judiciary committee and a previous data retention enthusiast. This law has bipartisan support. Anyone who is trying to paint this as if only one side or the other pushing it is just playing politics. Not to mention this idea was originally pushed by our wonderful friend Alberto Gonzales.

Re:democrats?

[TheGratefulNet]

Forced detention is also a crime against man. But it can be used to prevent greater crimes.

no, the 'end justifies the means' is EXACTLY how we got into iraq and other quagmires.

sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. some freedoms should be so basic as to be BEYOND a power-grab for politicrats and police-creatures.

if we keep this trend up, even a quiet whisper between friends will not have any privacy protections to it.

the gov NEVER has a 'right' to wiretap or spy. I feel so strongly about this, but sadly few others seem to care. and that's exactly the slippery slope that we are on right now. no one seems to value privacy to the level we once HAD.

technology should never remove basic human rights. the right to convey a thought, privately and NOT have it come back to haunt you later should never be taken away. people should have the right to communicate freely. why would you think otherwise? are you brainwashed by the 'think of the children!' idiots??

I'm against this

[Bryansix]

I'm against this not because of the privacy implications but because government shouldn't make it more expensive for a business to run by requiring them to keep information that is of no value to them past a certain period of time.

Re:not that troubling

[Uncle Focker]

You mean just like how the NSA is limited by the 4th amendment from snooping on U.S. citizens? Oh wait...
Please, they'll bypass the 4th amendment any time they want to get access to the data.

Double Standard

[pfleming]

So the administration that can't keep its own email records in accordance with Federal Law wants to pass a NEW Federal Law mandating that all of OUR records be retained for 2 years?

Re:Double Standard

[BenJCarter]

The administration is Republican. The article says this bill is sponsored by Democrats.

Sweet

[BigGar']

Time to buy some stock in manufacturers of storage solutions.

Sounds like a good idea to me

[phorm]

How about we start with the whitehouse? Remember all those missing emails?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, after all.

There is no privacy on Internet anyway

[iamacat]

All your data is transfered unencrypted and, with Web 2.0 "revolution", on servers accessible to outsourced personal in jurisdictions with questionable privacy laws. I hope this is a wake up call for widespread adoption of IPSec/SSL and return to hosting content on your own machine, like it was meant to be at inception of Internet and World Wide Web. Opportunistic encryption solutions can exchange public keys with assumption of trust during the first communication between two given users. Law enforcement or black hats who start to listen in later will not get much once your circle of online friends is established.

Re:ok...

[PoliTech]

Great, another Unfunded Mandate, but instead of bankrupting your friendly state or local governments with no funding to pay for the requirement, they are going to start hitting the citizenry directly.

ISPs will simply pass the cost of maintaining and storing all of that data right to their customers. Never mind the privacy implications.

What Political philosophy attacks perceived weakness of democracy, corruption of capitalism, promises vigorous foreign aid as well as aggressive military programs, and undertakes federal control of private business and economy to reduce "social friction"?

I won't supply an answer because I'm already flirting with Godwins Law.

Forign business opportunity

[davidwr]

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Bill of Rights...

[headkase]

Including the Bill of Rights as part of the Constitution was controversial at the time as some feared that it may come to be interpreted that the list would come to be seen as the only rights a Citizen possesed. The exact opposite is what was originally intended, the Federal government only has a small set of rights while Citizens are assumed to have unnumerated rights with the Bill of Rights as only listing a few. Under the Constitution it is not only their responsibility but even more importantly their duty to provide a conclusive and pressing need to curtail the Rights of the People of the United States of America when it comes to renegotiating the Rights and Freedoms of said Citizens. The anonymity of the original Federalist Papers strikes a chord here - this government sees people who are working for change as "homegrown terrorists". How ironic is the historical comparison to British rule over the Americas and those who oppose the status-quo with the Federal government today.

Now we see the problem with the Internet

[zymano]

Either the gov wants to track a few people or they want to track everyone. Giving this kind of power when not in wartime is irresponsible. I could see a judge letting them check on certain profiles but EVERYONE???

Funny in that they CAN'T STOP FUCKING MURDERS & OTHER CRIMES IN THEIR OWN PISSHOLE CITY : WASHINGTON D.C.

Responsibility first, privileges later

[Odin's Raven]

It might sound trite, but as long as the FBI behaves like a child, it should be treated like a child. Right now it seems like if we give them a baseball bat for little league then the next morning all the mailboxes along the street are smashed. If we lend 'em the car keys so they can go to youth prayer sessions, two hours later we're getting a phone call about how they wrapped the car around a telephone pole as they tried driving to the liquor store after getting thrown out of the local bar. And what's particularly galling is that they come back afterwards and ask if they can have a new Porsche because the old car doesn't go fast enough.

Let the FBI go a year without abusing their existing powers before they even get to ask for anything new. (Child equivalent: "No dessert until you clean your room.") Or use a more immediate reward/punishment system - if anyone abuses any privilege, the agent responsible is disciplined and the situation rectified (evidence tossed, etc). Otherwise the whole agency loses that privilege for a week the first time, a month the second time, then six months, then a year, etc. (Child equivalent: "If whoever threw that spitball doesn't fess up, the entire class is getting detention.")

I mean, seriously, it seems like my two-year old nephew has a better understanding of rights and responsibilities than the FBI does.

Congress First!

[twitter]

After all, we know congress and the presidency are both crammed with child molesters and other predators. Will someone please think of the children and Xray those bastards daily?

Re:Such easy questions.

[element-o.p.]

Didn't this exact same load of crap happen about every 50 years ago or so? sed "s/communism/terrorism/g" and you've transformed McCarthyism to, for lack of a better term, Bushism.

Re:not that troubling

[element-o.p.]

Riiiiight. And the FBI hasn't been caught improperly issuing National Security Letters recently ahref=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/washington/25justice.htmlrel=url2html-11383http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/washington/25justice.html>. And the NSA hasn't conducted domestic wiretapping in violation of the 4th amendment http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm. And the executive branch hasn't claimed that the right to a writ of habeas corpus is not granted by the Constitution http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2007/011907Parry.shtml

Not to be rude, but do you believe in the tooth fairy, too?

VPN = New Tin foil Hat

[queenb**ch]

Why is it that I think VPN just became the new digital equivalent of the tin foil hat?