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Mining the Cognitive Surplus

Clay Shirky has been giving talks on his book Here Comes Everybody — his "masterpiece," per Cory Doctorow — and BoingBoing picks up one of them, from the Web 2.0 conference. Shirky has come up with a quantification of the attention that TV has been absorbing for more than half a century. Shirky defines as a unit of attention "the Wikipedia": 100 million person-hours of thought. As a society we have been burning 2,000 Wikipedias per year watching mostly sitcoms. We're stopping now. Here's a video of another information-dense Shirky talk, this one at Harvard.

46 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. Fascinating by 26199 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was going to make a comment about such statistics being next to meaningless. ("What if nobody watched TV" is similar to "what if we didn't have any wars" or "what if all religions suddenly settled their differences"). Then I RTFA. And I'm not entirely convinced but I really hope he's right.

    He making a compelling case for the end of the TV era. Can you feel it coming? Just think what it might mean...

    1. Re:Fascinating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The age of mediocrity. The irony is that TV makers brought it onto themselves by constantly lowering standards. The overall productivity of millions of people might topple the productivity of a couple thousand professionals, but it comes at the cost of having to deal with mediocre performance in order to not turn off contributors. If something good comes of it, I would like it to be that professionals realize that their only chance is quality, not finding ever cheaper ways to produce filler.

    2. Re:Fascinating by kestasjk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know anyone that still watches TV like people used to in the 90s. I haven't rtfa'd yet, but if he's saying that those hours will be put to good use now that we're not watching sitcoms I'm not so hopeful; it's not like you can't waste time on the net, that's all a lot of people (most?) use it for.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    3. Re:Fascinating by athmanb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He's probably right, the TV era is going away and getting replaced with the MMORPG era.

      Not that it makes any difference whether we waste our time on soap operas or getting epix though.

    4. Re:Fascinating by Original+Replica · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The irony is that TV makers brought it onto themselves by constantly lowering standards.

      I don't think that's true. Compare a season of "Heroes" to a season of "A-Team" or "Night Rider". Look at the quality progression of "Star Trek" "Star Trek:the Next Generation" "Battlestar Galactica". I think television quality has migrated towards the extremes, there is some television that is very good, and some that makes Charlie the Unicorn look brilliant. I'm hoping that the rise of YouTube is going to be the end of reality TV.

      --
      We are all just people.
    5. Re:Fascinating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He's right and his proof was made before he wrote the article, evidenced by the existence of Wikipedia itself. For this one project alone, 1/10,000 of the cognitive surplus of one year has already been harvested. Right, because all of the mental effort that went into creating Wikipedia was taken from the mental effort that was wasted by watching TV, and not from anything else.

      Seriously, do you even know what the word "proof" means? Your statement isn't based on any kind of fact so it may not even be true itself, much less prove anything else.

      The article is based on two whopping unfounded assumptions:

      - That this cognitive surplus even exists. It's possible that people simply have a finite amount of thought available per unit time and that this thought is already being completely expended. The fact that people in the past had much less free time is meaningless; they also had much less requirement for thought in their work and in their lives. Maybe a consequence of the move from mindless drones to modern thought-workers is that there isn't much thought left to be used in the free time created.

      - That mental effort is interchangeable. This should be obviously false, not just unproven. It should be clear to anyone who has interacted with humans that when any kind of goal is at stake, some people's brains are vastly more effective at reaching it than others. If your goal is some physics problem, an hour of Albert Einstein's brain is probably worth more than the entire lifetime of that girl who made me a sandwich at the deli today. You can't say that there are X person-hours being wasted in front of the TV which could do awesome things if they were put to use elsewhere. These are not CPU cycles, you can't just load new software and go.

      Now, overall I think that the guy's talk has a good point and tells a lot of truth. But it goes too far when talking about mental effort as if it were fungible, and there's no way that any of his conclusions are proven at all, much less by the mere existence of Wikipedia.
    6. Re:Fascinating by sir+fer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Improving the quality of TV is like improving the quality of shit...at the end of the day it's still shit.

      --
      Debian FTW ;o)
    7. Re:Fascinating by globaljustin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The article is based on two whopping unfounded assumptions:
      - That this cognitive surplus even exists. It's possible that people simply have a finite amount of thought available per unit time and that this thought is already being completely expended.
      I agree and I'd go further to say that any human thought that does not lead to productive action is useless in the context of making some point about any 'cognitive surplus' lost to TV viewing.

      What's the difference if a construction worker spends his free time watching Blue Collar comedy tour or reading Sports Illustrated? Neither have any influence on his production, so any greater point about cognitive surplus wasted watching TV is meaninglesss.

      The problem is Shirky didn't take a few things into account:

      1. TV is analogous to several types of leisure activity. Any serious discussion of productivity or 'time' wasted watching TV much occur in the greater context of all the things people do when they are not working.

      2. Depending a person's main area of work, watching TV may be helpful, even necessary for them to work effectively. This factor must be taken into account. A person working in TV production, music, journalism...hell even health care, religious work, and education could find legitimate and relevant information on television that will increase their productivity and therefore not be a "waste of time"

      3. I can think of more, but I have an article to write, so I'd better not waste any more time posting about how this Shirky guy's ideas about wasted man hours watching TV are lacking basic support....ah irony
      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
    8. Re:Fascinating by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree with you he has an interesting point, but he's built it up in the wrong direction. People are not machines. You can't just work them all the time. They either die earlier, work less effectively or go insane.

      TV lets you switch gears from what you did all day. I don't know anybody who works all day in an office who wants to come home and... do more office stuff. You need to switch gears. People used to work in the field or factory all day, then come home and read. Now that we read all day, we want to come home and do something different.

      There are a few people who can go home and write decent blogs, or make good videos of things. A few. MOST of them tend to be either professionals (ie it's at least partly their job, the the article author), or they do it fairly short term and, if it doesn't become their job, they stop or at least slow down a lot.

      I think he's got a point about the ads. They really are wasted. They don't help your mental recuperation and they certainly aren't productive.

      Plus I don't know anyone who actually sits in front of the TV drooling. My TV is on, but I'm reading Slashdot and about to go do the dishes. My father was a teacher and used to mark in front of the TV. I know lots of people who turn the TV on and then have a nap.

    9. Re:Fascinating by vlad30 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Improving the quality of TV is like improving the quality of shit...at the end of the day it's still shit. yes but Good Shit (TM) will make things grow. Bad Shit (TM) just poisons the earth and eventually kills everything it touches
      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    10. Re:Fascinating by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yea.. and you don't own a TV, right? You're so trendy and hip that I think I'm going to puke.

      And don't even try to tell me that things like YouTube make TV unnecessary, because if you think TV is shit, it's much, much worse on YouTube. I think I drop an IQ point every time I hit that site.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    11. Re:Fascinating by Anguirel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree with the premise that all time spent watching TV is not productive. Even when watching shows which are not directly educational, it is time spent generating a common framework for discussion and discourse, it enables consideration of various hypothetical situations, and enhances the ability of people to consider various possibilities. Unless you consider all art appreciation and cultural achievement, along with most of philosophy, to be not productive in any sense.

      You could as easily say "time spent reading is time spent *not* being productive" or "time spent talking about whether an Artificial Intelligence deserves rights and 'personhood' is time spent *not* being productive" -- which could be strictly speaking true (nothing is directly produced) but the indirect effects of those thoughts and discussions and things read, and shows watched can lead to very productive efforts.

      --
      ~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
      QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
  2. Nope. by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think that stopping the practice of watching long hours of re-ran Seinfeld episodes, so that you can spend even more hours writing and following links to various discussions and trivia about Seinfeld episodes and looking for places to download bootlegs of the same is an indication that, finally, all of that brainpower is getting put back to productive use.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Nope. by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sound point, but his argument is a little more subtle. Not all that brainpower will be put to constructive use, at least not in the next generation or two. But his order-of-magnitude calculations illustrate that rerouting just a tiny fraction of that brainpower makes for large social changes.

    2. Re:Nope. by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Entertainment isn't directly supposed to be productive

      I'm certainly not going to debate that, and that's not my contention, here. I'm talking about the assertion that time spent online is somehow, by its nature, more productive than the time spent catching a broadcast or TiVo'd session of a sitcom. People want to be entertained, and they're going to find ways to spend time being entertained. From what I'm able to determine - anecdotally, of course - the generations that most recently grew up sitting in front of the TV and talking on land-lines with their peers are indeed different than the ones that are spending the same (or, I'd guess, wildly more) hours sitting in front of MySpace and IMing their friends. But only in trivial ways. And worse, actually - at least people who sat through a 30-minute sitcome narrative actually had their brains involved in following a story arc, however silly it might have been. The ADHD-ness of how that same time is now being spent is dramatically visible, and might even worsen the sort of productivity that comes from being able to concentrate for more than 30 seconds at a time on any one thing.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:Nope. by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Those kids who spend all their time IMing and MySpacing, and can't focus anything for more than 30 seconds will be perfectly suited to working in an office. According to the article I linked to, most office workers get interrupted every 3 minutes. So these kids who have no attention span will probably be much better adapted to working in such and environment.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  3. Double-standards? by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If, in defending the free exchange of media, we note that each "pirated" copy does not necessarily equal a lost sale, why should we think watching sitcoms necessarily equals lost useful effort?

    1. Re:Double-standards? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The cognitive surplus may be low-grade ore, but a gold mine is economical even if there's only one ounce of gold per ton.

    2. Re:Double-standards? by MrAndrews · · Score: 4, Interesting

      While I'd agree with you that there needs to be some downtime to help refresh one's brainpower, I think the question of "how much downtime" is the key.

      I used to watch 2 hours of TV a night (which I believe is below the American average), and felt that after a hard day of work, it was nice to relax and just absorb for a while. But after recently giving up caffeine, I decided to see how many of my other "normal" activities were based on addiction too. So I gave up an hour of TV and tried to put it towards other uses (in this case, re-doing my office).

      The first week was fine, the second week was hell, but by the end of the first month, I was actually adapted to not watching more than an hour every day. I had moved past working on my office, and was writing books again, debugging old code I hadn't touched in months. I had been ignoring productivity to indulge in something I could SWORN was essential to my mental stability.

      I'm actually torn about this situation, because I make my living producing entertainment products that I hope people will mindlessly consume... but if we actually DO move beyond the old-fashioned paradigm, the hours I produce may have a harder time fitting into the "free time" the rest of the world has.

      Someone should put some of their newly-acquired brainspace into finding a way to make TV more socially-and-interactively useful, so I don't have to worry so much.

    3. Re:Double-standards? by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I'm actually torn about this situation, because I make my living producing entertainment products that I hope people will mindlessly consume"

      Why be torn? There will NEVER be a shortage of people ready to gobble mindless entertainment. What you do as a self-aware person doesn't mean fuck all to the drones, so make stuff that makes money for you and then enjoy the
      power money gives you. You cannot (no one can) ensmarten the drones. Leave them to their American Idol and other comforting bullshit. They don't care what you want.

      "Someone should put some of their newly-acquired brainspace into finding a way to make TV more socially-and-interactively useful, so I don't have to worry so much."

      They did. It's called a computer.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  4. Wow by NIckGorton · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just wow.

    My hippy-social-justice-queer-tree-hugging-dirt-worshipper self just did a little dance.

  5. Maybe, maybe not by AmazingRuss · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been without broadcast TV for 15 years or so, and I find plenty of other trivia to waste my time on. Lacking the daily homogenizing input, I am kind of awkward in conversation with strangers or casual acquaintances. I don't know any of the little catch phrases from the sitcoms, or what any of the sports teams are doing. It would do my social life a lot of good if I watched TV, but I just can't hack it.

    I also think that it's a good thing a lot of these folks have the TV to watch. It gives them something to talk about, and keeps them inside, out of trouble. I don't think the infinite number of monkeys technique really applies to advancing human thought. If they're captivated by sitcoms, it's doubtful they are going to have much to contribute.

    1. Re:Maybe, maybe not by Xelios · · Score: 2

      "The difference being that they're interactive; and, however slowly, people might start to build something."

      If the quality of the most popular TV shows right now is any indication...the thought of that something scares the shit out of me.

      --
      Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
    2. Re:Maybe, maybe not by AmazingRuss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You get out there and inspire the Muggles, and see where it gets you. Trying to push the back end of the bell curve into the front is very rarely a rewarding endeavor. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to deal with them is to be polite and get away as soon as possible...which is how I expect them to treat me too, given my ignorance of things that interest them.

      I have an endless store of engineering trivia, others have an endless supply of pop culture trivia. It's not good, bad, or otherwise.

    3. Re:Maybe, maybe not by anagama · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Same here -- I gave up TV around 1993. I know exactly what you mean about being disconnected from pop culture but it hasn't really bothered me. After a few months without TV, I didn't miss it all because I had time to engage in hobbies and other things that interested me.

      Unfortunately, I've discovered a new problem recently. I find my time dwindling again because in the last couple years, I've been spending way too much time online. While pre-93 I might surf channels all day hoping something good would come on -- now I'm surfing the web incessantly hoping there will be something good to read. I have to figure out how to restrain myself somehow, but this time it will be harder. I need a network connection to get linux distros and for help/documentation. Secondly, commercial free quality material is quite easy to get now thanks to DVDs, iTunes, and such. While my interests are very narrow in terms of TV content, I'm probably spending three or four hours per week on watching shows now. I'm really starting to notice how projects I have are languishing, and projects I want to do are being pushed further into the future.

      Anyway -- I better get the heck of slashdot now and start my network time reduction.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    4. Re:Maybe, maybe not by anagama · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow. He wasn't pontificating -- he was discussing his personal experience with not watching TV for an extended period in the context of a topic related to how TV wastes resources. He brought a perfectly relevant perspective -- not a sermon.

      I'm also a TV refusenik, and while I don't know if the GP is like me, I do know I don't go around willy nilly saying "I don't watch TV". It comes up from time to time when someone alludes to something I've never seen, so I'll have to ask for clarification, but I'm not pontificating in any way.

      What amazes me is that a small number of people get so defensive about TV viewing habits, as if my refusal to engage (*) is some sort of personal attack. Everyone should spend their time how they want to, but I suspect that those who get defensive about how they spend their time, have some internal voice telling them they should spend it differently. Either that or they're ridiculously hypersensitive.

      (*) I should note, I am no longer completely TV free -- I do watch certain shows on DVD or iTunes. I am however, completely commercial free and for me, the time spent watching commercials felt utterly wasted -- it was the main reason I quit. I also had difficulty controlling how long I'd watch. When the content is not streamed constantly to my set, but I have to select and pay for it individually, it helps me be selective. If there's nothing to buy, I have nothing to watch. My current problem though, is spending too much time online. I need to work out a cure for that like I did for TV 15 years ago.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  6. Interesting Analysis by rm999 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is an interesting analysis of the distribution of users who contribute online:
    http://www.tiara.org/blog/?p=272

    I think the take-home message is that most people don't want to contribute much. The reason is obvious to me - after 40+ hours of working in a week, most people I know want to relax and not think much; passively watching TV is the perfect outlet.

    1. Re:Interesting Analysis by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wait until they discover that, as the proverb says, "a change of work is the best rest".

    2. Re:Interesting Analysis by 1+a+bee · · Score: 3, Informative

      He argues in the article even a 1% drop of TV viewing hours redirected to collaborative output (multiplayer online games, forum discussions, such as this one, all count as *output*) can have transformative societal effects (about 1000 wikipedias / yr, if I read that correctly). So even a small shift away from pure couch potato consumption, to collaborative production (remember the online multiplayer game isn't worth a damn without the other players), he claims, represents a huge shift in societal output. And if this collaborative production thing actually snowballs, then the 1% estimate will seem a bit too tame..

  7. Just kinda stopped watching.. by xtal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I noticed a few months ago, I don't watch TV anymore. I'll buy DVDs and sit down and watch them, but there is too much interesting stuff going on now, and too many other things to do to sit there on the couch. Most of the programs are utterly asinine, and the good nuggets are all available through other media (DVD) now.

    The most interesting thing is this is something that just sort of happened.. not something I set out to do. I think my cat might spend more time in front of the TV than I do.

    --
    ..don't panic
  8. Amusing ourselves to death by Reader+X · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Two things about Clay Shirky's critique of TV:

    1. He's right.
    2. He is pissing in the wind.

    The Internet, and in particular Web 2.0 and the interactive/collaborative opportunities it creates, have pretty much already been coopted into the trivialization of thought and discourse. For every Wikipedia article there are hundreds of lame blog posts on boneheaded topics (including, for some of you, this one!). From an epistomological perspective, the Internet/television convergence is only accelerated by Web 2.0 technology, because the medium conditions us to behave trivially, a sizable fraction of people like it that way, and the economics of the medium tend to reinforce and extend that use.

    The interested reader may also want to check out Neil Postmans's magnum opus on the death blow television has administered to our public discourse, written some twenty years ago.

  9. Re:"the Wikipedia"? no by Workaphobia · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, no, a Library of Congress is a measurement of information quantity, and a Wikipedia is a measurement of attention; the dimensions are not equal at all.

    However, 1e8 person * hours is an incredibly bad choice for the definition of a Wikipedia. Why not make it more metric, defining it to be something like 1 person * second of attention? Then the SI standard unit would be a megawikipedia, or MWp. This is equivalent to one person studying something for one and a half weeks, or all of America witnessing an event that lasts a third of a second.

    --
    Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
  10. Post Inducer by Al+Mutasim · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't that essay make you want to post comments to Slashdot, rather than just read? It does me.

    1. Re:Post Inducer by LaskoVortex · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was thinking of posting anonymously because everyone agreeing with TFA is getting systematically modded down. But I'm going to stick my neck out on this one.

      I think many people on this forum hope that they are the only ones who know how to type or make any sort of meaningful contribution on line. This is painful arrogance. I see a lot of: (1) "the statistics are meaningless" and (2) "most people are stupid and can contribute nothing" comments here. It gets redundant watching people who measure their IQ as a function inverse of their slashdot id.

      The thing that escape those with this arrogance, though, is that everyone is able to contribute online. Every thought that comes out of people is a contribution to the collective consciousness, even if you make redundant groupthink posts on slashdot. Although a handful of websites (e.g. slashdot) pioneered online collaborative thought, they will not forever remain the only legitimate sources of such. For example, how many people have solved a programming or computer administration problem from a poorly written post by someone who "knew less" than themselves? I suspect many, although it may be tough for these individuals to admit.

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
  11. good missed points by opencity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Jerry Mander's book from the 70s made a crucial distinction between active and passive media. The above slashdot comments seem limited to wikipedia bashing or a splitting of web 2.0 hairs re:2008. That is, the percentage that are coherent, which is low by the usually high standards of non technical commentary on this site ... cough ...

    This reminded me of seeing Esther Dyson and some pundits on Charley Rose a couple of years ago. They all laughed when Dyson said: "I can't tell you what web 2.0 means". Web 2.04 (or wherever we're at) means everyone can be Esther Dyson, everyone can be Charley Rose. Not everyone can be Tom Friedman as it takes years to acquire the ego involved in that much stupidity. Now is everyone going to be Charley Rose? No. Will there still be old school one way media? Yes, at least for a long time.

    Mander's point is that TV is passive and active participation works the brain muscles more than then passive staring at the screen. The brain is a muscle, use it or lose it. As someone who quit TV, not unlike drugs, in my teen years I've long argued that TV was the reason for the collapse of literacy in the US. Will the wide open web cure that? Probably not, we shall see, but any change is good. American pop culture, mainstream corporate entertainment, now resembles a piece of chewing gum so worked over there is no flavor left (see: pop music). Are endless sectarian/technical blog exchanges entertaining? YMMV, but compared to what's on TV and the radio they at least measure up.

    --
    Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
  12. Especially since by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sometimes you need mental downtime, just like physical downtime. If you've just finished running a marathon, you aren't really going to want to go shovel your driveway right afterwards, nor are you likely to be effective if you do. Your body is worn out and needs to relax. Well, the same is true of the mind after hard work. Sometimes you just need to relax. There is nothing wrong with this, and in fact can make you more effective when you do go back to work.

    Then, of course, there's the problem of assuming there's something wrong with goofing off. I don't know why some people seem to think life should be nothing but work. On the grand scale, what is the point of living if all you do is have no fun? There is nothing at all wrong with goofing off, and if people want to goof off by watching TV, that's fine.

    There is no reason why people should have to be (or even could be) productive every waking hour of the day. It's ok if you just want to kick back and goof off. After all, I'd say that's what the work is for in the first place.

  13. Tried it already by 77Punker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm about to graduate from college and at the end of this semester, I realized I had a ton of math homework that I needed to do in order to pass. Why was this the case? I'm a smart guy so it's really not very difficult for me, and it's not just busywork.

    I had been wasting time playing video games. I decided about 3 weeks ago that I wasn't going to spend my time doing things that have no outcome and only serve as time sinks: no video games, no pot smoking, no TV watching(unless it's informative). Exceptions (like social events) do exist, but I've stuck to it.

    Since then, I put time into my senior seminar and it ended up kicking ass, done a whole semester's worth of math in about 4 straight days, greatly increased my guitar playing ability, learned to meditate, and learned a new programming language. I've also taken care of loads of smaller things I may have just ignored and come closer to some friends and family. Most of this great success is due to the fact that I've eliminated my biggest time sink (video games). I imagine I'll also have more money, since video games are expensive and I'm selling my X360.

    These changes have allowed me to come closer to my full potential, and I don't regret it one bit. For me, video games took hours (years?) of time that I'll never get back, but at least I'm young enough that it's not too late. I feel like I just woke up from a coma.

    I strongly encourage everyone to examine his time-sinking habits and eliminate them; it may change your life!

    1. Re:Tried it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      #1 Time sink: Slashdot.

    2. Re:Tried it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I strongly encourage everyone to examine his time-sinking habits and eliminate them; it may change your life! Are you saying that I have to give up slashdot? 'Cause that's not going to happen.
    3. Re:Tried it already by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The key isn't to get rid of it entirely, that is just going from one extreme to another. If you have to worry about being productive all the time you are just going to fizzle out more often then not. The key of course is moderation. Sometimes I find slacking off helps when I am at a standstill on a difficult problem. Just getting my mind off of it seems to allow it to wander and usually I will wind up figuring out the critical step while my nose isn't buried in a book.

      You can also find more productive ways of slacking off, if that makes any sense. For instance, my guilty vice is South Park, so I loaded up the latest episode today and watched it while I was on an elliptical machine in the gym(with a set of wireless headphones). I was able to watch the episode and workout at the same time.

    4. Re:Tried it already by Eil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was in the exact same place as you and came to the same exact conclusions. Throughout my teen years I was a video game fiend. Not just casual gaming mind you, but the long RPGs that take 50+ hours to beat even if you're in a hurry. Video games were literally my entire life. I didn't have many friends, I didn't date, I didn't even get the chance to experiment with alcohol and drugs with my peers. I just played shitloads of games. When I wasn't playing them, I was reading about them. When I wasn't reading about them, I was thinking about them.

      Fast forward to me at 20 years old. I was having some trouble getting past a difficult boss in Final Fantasy 9. It was late so I just gave it up and went to bed at some point. The next day, after I got home from work, I looked at the Playstation and somehow realized right then and there that battling imaginary monsters and exploring fictional worlds had absolutely no tangible impact on anything that really mattered in my life. So I simply went off to do something else instead.

      I always had an interest in computers and open source and quitting video games let me focus on them nearly full-time. Looking back, it's almost creepy how quickly I went from around 35 hours of video games per week for over a decade to nothing literally overnight. These days I only play games casually. Once every couple months I'll pick up the GameBoy Advance and play Sonic for a half hour, or perhaps plug in the old Playstation and whiz through a few levels of Wipeout XL. I go on an emulator kick about once a year. Other than that, nada.

      I'm not saying that quitting games turned me into a genius or a high-roller. In fact, my job bores me and the married life means that I have less time to myself than ever. But retiring the D-pad was possibly one of the best moves I have ever made and the timing couldn't have been better. Some people are in their 30's and don't realize how much of their lives they willingly forfeited to video games.

  14. The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    - Bertrand Russell

  15. yeah the web has totally changed this by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unlike that shitty stuff on television, we produce only the finest art on youtube.com.

  16. TFA's still full of it by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    TFA is still full of it, IMHO.

    1. As others already pointed out, you _can't_ do mental work for 16 hours a day and still be top-productivity. And the GP's post isn't just "possible", it's actually proven.

    I remember at least one study where some students were asked to solve some complicated maths problems. Some were told to take a break, get a good night's sleep, etc. Some were told to forge ahead, keep at it all day, and generally do the kind of 16 hours a day mental work that TFA implicitly assumes possible. (You know, the whole assumption being that you could work on Wikipedia if you weren't watching TV.) The guys who had a more humane schedule actually finished faster.

    You can see this in places where massive overtime is constantly demanded too. (E.g., most of the computer games industry.) In the long term people just get tired, make more mistakes, and eventually burn out.

    The brain does tire, same as everything else. You can cheat a bit by using different parts of it. E.g., if you write programs at work, you write about physics on Wikipedia or do some creative stuff at home. But even that only goes so far.

    We also know by now, that the brain has finite buffers. And overflow just causes E.g., the first (short-term) buffer is only 8 seconds. If you don't take a short break (just watch the ceiling for 10 seconds, or do 10 steps around the room) to let it flush when you overload it, data starts being discarded. The next one we know about is about 3 days worth, and apparently data from it is only "persisted" to permanent memory during REM sleep. Again, ploughing through a lot of information too fast, and/or skipping enough sleep, can cause data to be lost. (Essentially doing 2 all-nighters before an exam in college guarantees that you'll know that stuff for the exam, but forget it immediately afterwards.)

    So, yes, it is not only possible, but known and proved that people can only do so much mental work per day and still be productive.

    2. It's also a matter of interests. You're the most productive for the things that keep you at least a bit interested and maybe even entertained. E.g., if you're fascinated by, say, history but hate geography, you could maintain some history pages on Wikipedia, but basically trying to maintain geography pages would be a chore.

    What I'm getting at here, though, is that only a narrow minority of the population, the "nerds", develop some sort of obsession with a narrow domain. (It's one of the invariant symptoms in Asperger's, for example.) Or enough of it to do it in their free time.

    Most of the people just don't develop enough of an interest in anything to really further human knowledge. Even if you could un-invent TV overnight, they'd go to the pub instead, not start studying some science. And if you forced them at gun-point to do science in their free time, they'd take it as a chore and do a half-arsed job that doesn't really benefit anyone.

    3. Singling out TV is freaking stupid. For as long as we have a recorded history, and even from the primitive tribes we found, people have _some_ time where they just relax and/or are entertained.

    They go to the pub, or sit around the fire and gossip, or have a tribal dance in the village centre, or whatever appropriate for the time and place. Long before TV and computer games, people played cards, dice, or whatever other unproductive passtime. Chess was invented as a 4 player wargame, actually modeling the units used at the time. It was the primitive version of Command And Conquer, not t3h uber-intellectual challenge for nerds. (Then they figured out that, many centuries before the Internet, it's a pain to find 4 players at the same time. So they made it for 2 players, each taking command of 2 armies. That's why you have 2 of each piece. And one King became Grand Vizier, and the most powerful piece in the game. It's what now we call a Queen.) Etc.

    Or if we're at "TV", people used to go to a theatre for exactly the same purpose as watching a movie on TV. Pretty much any

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  17. A Modern Problem by Aceticon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There seems to be a widespread assumption in modern western societies that free time = wasted time.

    Somehow there's an expectation that people should use every waking moment to do something "productive". The best example of this trend are Blackberries and how they so often are used to extend one's working hours to to every single free moment we had left.

    Especially in Anglo-Saxon societies, people are expected to work continuously, eat at their desks,have no breaks and take work home with them - it's nuts: half the mid-level decision makers seem to be in a constant state of overstressed exhaustion, so no wonder overall corporate productivity is low, wrong decisions are common and a state of barely contained chaos is the rule. Nobody is thinking of the big picture - they're all keeping up with the flow of data (95% worthless chaff) and running around putting out fires.

    And now this article ...

    This is totally against the way the brain works - people absolutely need some sort of mental "decompression" time. Passive consumption of intellectually-undemanding TV entertainment is a form of relaxation and release from everyday stress.

    Television might be crap, but it serves a purpose - entertainment without requiring any effort: call it chewing-gum for the brain.

  18. We post medical education videos on YouTube by KWTm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Our medical group has created a number of short video clips for educating our patients on various relevant health and health care topics, and is posting them on YouTube. We figure it's an easy way to disseminate knowledge to the general population.

    So, yes, I agree with you that you can't label all of YouTube as bad.

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    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
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