Disillusioned With IT?

cgh4be writes "I have been working in the IT industry for about 12 years and have had various jobs as a consultant and systems engineer. Over that time I've had the chance to do a little bit of everything: programming, networking, SAN, Linux/AIX/UNIX, Windows, sales, support, and on and on. However, over the last couple of months I have become a little disillusioned with the IT industry as a whole. Occasionally, I will get interested in some new technology, but for the most part I'm starting to find it all very tedious, repetitive, and boring and I'm no longer really interested in the hands-on aspect of the business. I suppose going the management route is one option, but I would still be dealing with a lot of the same frustrating technology issues. The other route I had in mind was a complete career change; take something I really enjoy doing outside of work now and try to make a career out of it. The only problem is that I have a wife and kid to support and my current job pays very well. Have any of you been through this kind of career 'mid-life crisis?' What did you do to get out of the rut? Is making a complete career change at this point a bad idea?"

Comments

My vote...

[jnutt]

Do what you love. In the end it is all that matters.

Re:My vote...

[Tablizer]

Do what you love. In the end it is all that matters.

But pr0n don't pay if you are male

You've been working for 12 years, right?

[everphilski]

So you have a nice little nest egg stashed away, right? Saving for retirement? Rainy day fund? How much reserves you got to start something on your own?

If you do, then start thinking about doing that right now while you have this well-paying job, and spend some of your evening hours developing a business plan, potential clientele, educating yourself.

If you don't, then you need to take a few years to build that nest egg up, to be responsible to your wife and kids.

Re:You've been working for 12 years, right?

[everphilski]

I have no idea what you are talking about. My only suggestion was, if he had been setting aside money over time then maybe he'd have the financial resources to consider his independant business venture. And if not, he should consider starting that savings now, while the money is good.

Raising a family while very young is the trap that lords and masters have laid into the path of the peasant since lords and masters have been around. See, once you have children, they have something they can use to keep you honest (read, subservient, read also, shackled). See, a man who accepts that all is transient, and family comes and goes as does youth and riches and poverty, will be hard to shackle down, or to enslave.

I'm 25. Been married for nearly 5 years. We had our first child when I was 22. Lived in this house for two years. And despite having two kids and a wife to keep me "subservient" or whatever you propose, we've paid down nearly 10% of our mortgage, and put about 25% of my net income per month away in savings and investments. It isn't hard to do if you are committed to it. Having kids early, getting married early, really isn't a strain if you are disciplined in money management. And if you aren't disciplined in money management, you'll blow it on loose women, cars, computers or beer as a single guy anyways.

Re:You've been working for 12 years, right?

[nwf]

It's amazing how little you actually NEED, as opposed to how much you want. Once you differentiate between the two, a complete career change won't look nearly as daunting.

Indeed, since in a first world country like the US or most of Europe, you don't need a place to live, a job or anything really else. You can beg for food or dumpster dive and live under a bridge or in shelter. That will pretty much bring you down to an income of a few dollars a month that you find while walking around all day. That's all you strictly need: a place to keep out of the rain and food.

In fact, he may want the two cars and large screen TV more than he hates his job. It's all a trade off. They wouldn't call it work if it was always entertaining and fun. Perhaps a small change is in order, like moving to a different area or changing industries (while remaining in IT.)

Re:You've been working for 12 years, right?

[Glonoinha]

I think what he was saying was - since you have two children, a mortgage payment (with 90% of the original house value still outstanding), and maybe a car payment or two ... odds are if your boss comes to you and asks you to work overtime this weekend when you already have a slope-side condo booked (nonrefundable), and he leans on you real hard - odds are you are NOT going to tell him "Sorry but I'm busy this weekend; I'll be on the ski slopes if you need me." Not going to happen.

No kids, no house payment, no car payment, $250k in the bank = you do what you want, and if you need to find another job, you find another job.

PS - Most of my money I spent on loose women, liquor, cars, and computers. The rest I just wasted.

Re:You've been working for 12 years, right?

[galego]

I may not say [quote]Sorry but I'm busy this weekend; I'll be on the ski slopes if you need me.[/quote] ... but I am certainly going to require some justification and compensation for the last minute inconvenience. Any boss who cannot respect and compensate me for that sort of performance/committment/sacrifice, does not deserve to be my boss.

No kids, no house payment, no car payment, $250k in the bank = you do what you want, and if you need to find another job, you find another job.

And from a boss' perspective ... I wouldn't miss that person (nor expect them to be around that long anyway). They bug off anytime they are asked to make some committment or sacrifice ... 6-12 months at each job on the resume. Sure, hire them for some contract gig, but otherwise, no thanks. I've moved when I felt it was necessary. I've asked my employers to give back when I give my all. If they don't (and haven't), I move on.

Re:You've been working for 12 years, right?

[jcgf]

And besides, let's see who's changing your diapers when you're 90!?!?! :P

The people at the nursing home that he checked himself into and your kids dumped you at?

Reality check, please!

[Tumbleweed]

If you're in the U.S., you should look around you at what is happening to the economy, and what direction it's headed. THEN make up your mind about whether you want to change careers right now.

Re:Reality check, please!

[OriginalArlen]

If you're in the US and take a look around at what is happening to the economy, you're more likely to be out on the ledge on the 19th floor at this point.

Re:Reality check, please!

[Lord Ender]

Picture of the US economy: Homebuilders and mortgage lenders are hurting and laying people off. Health care, education, agriculture, and IT are seeing strong demand with very low unemployment.

It should also be pointed out that

• . Making economic predictions is extremely difficult.
  
• . The US employment picture in the middle of a bad recession is still better than that of the rest of the advanced economies during boom times.
  
• . A US recession is a world recession; there is nowhere to hide.
  
• . A surge in the value of the Euro means EU exporters are going to get hit very hard, regardless.
  

Re:Reality check, please!

[rubycodez]

is it that much of a change? I've been corralling and herding lusers for 25 years, listening to their bleating, branding them with uid/gid/usernames....

Re:Reality check, please!

[Grishnakh]

For some fields it's a great time to change:
Helicopter pilots are desperately in need.
CNC machine operators are in need.

If you qualify, neither of those takes much training to be employable. 2 years, tops.

While you can probably do all your helicopter pilot training in 2 years, you'll need $110,000 in cash to pay for it, and the price is going up with the quickly rising price of gasoline. You can get student loans, of course, but these are usually limited to $70k, plus with the collapse of Silver State Helicopters (a big scam), and of course the rest of the country's credit industry problems, getting a loan isn't an easy thing any more.

Flying a helicopter is also a difficult and dangerous job. It's been compared to standing on a beach ball while patting your head and rubbing your stomach, as you have to constantly adjust for wind conditions and other factors. Some people can learn it, some people just can't, and you may burn tens of thousands of dollars before finding out that you're one of the ones who just can't hack it.

If you have an analytical mind, are fairly good at math, and have good motor skills and coordination, and most importantly are good at doing things exactly "by the book", you'll probably be a good helicopter pilot, but you'll need someone bankrolling your education to get there.

However, you also have to think about your career prospects. After you finish your certifications, the only thing you'll be able to get a job in is teaching at the flight school you just graduated from. You'll do this for 6-12 months, at mediocre pay, until you reach 1000 hours of PIC time (pilot in command), at which point you can get another job somewhere else (no one will hire you with less than 1000 hours). Now, unless you just love teaching, your choices widen to:
1) flying oil rig workers to and from oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. You'll live in a horrible little hellhole in Louisiana, living in a nasty trailer with other pilots, getting crappy pay ($50k), probably working 7 days, and getting off 7 days. On your off days, you'll probably go stay with your family somewhere along the Gulf
Coast, perhaps New Orleans, Gulfport, or maybe Houston.
2) flying as a tour pilot in Hawaii, the Grand Canyon, the Bahamas, or someplace like that. With this career, the pay isn't too hot either, probably about the same as with the GOM operations, but you also get tips. The scenery is far, far better of course, but you do have to contend with a much higher cost of living generally. And with the poor economy, not as many people might be taking helicopter tours, though there's probably a lot of rich European tourists who aren't as affected.
3) flying EMS. This is where helicopter pilots go to die. The pay isn't all that great either, but the worst part is that you don't build hours (i.e. experience) very fast, so you're basically stuck there. Unlike the GOM and tour jobs, where you're flying all the time, EMS pilots just sit around all the time watching TV or reading books until someone has a nasty car accident. If you don't care about building hours or flying, this might appeal to you, but if you'd rather be flying most of the time, or have your sights on some higher-up career, this isn't going to help you. However, the BIG plus side of EMS is that EMS pilots are needed in every city, so unlike the above jobs, you can basically live anywhere you want, provided there's a job opening.

If you have a family and kids, being a helicopter pilot is really a no-go unless you're independently wealthy I think. The up-front cost of training is very, very high, and the starting salaries are very low; you won't be able to afford to pay back your student loans if you have a mortgage and mouths to feed. Eventually, with plenty of experience, there are other, more interesting and better paying jobs you can get into, such as logging, construction, news gathering, etc., but the road to these is long, and again, with many of th

Ask elsewhere too

[SleptThroughClass]

The other route I had in mind was a complete career change; take something I really enjoy doing outside of work now and try to make a career out of it.

Don't know if /. can answer that. All of the replies are always strictly on topic and accurate about technological issues.

Man Up

[eldavojohn]

Occasionally, I will get interested in some new technology, but for the most part I'm starting to find it all very tedious, repetitive, and boring and I'm no longer really interested in the hands-on aspect of the business. I spent the majority of my childhood until I was 18 picking rock and bailing hay on a farm. You think you're in a tedious, repetitive and boring job? The fact that you're posting on Slashdot during work hours tells me otherwise. I'll bet you have air conditioning.

I know this is a bad thing that Americans don't like to dwell on but you should be happy you have a solid source of income and work in comfortable environments. Most people outside of the industrialized world can't say that.

The only problem is that I have a wife and kid to support and my current job pays very well. If you can't find joy in your job and you can't find another job with comparable income, then find joy in your family. Generations before you have worked in mills, textile plants, mines, slaughterhouses, etc. all in the name of their wives, daughters & sons living a free life. Again, if I were you, I would opt to be thankful I can provide for my family under much better circumstances (and probably at much higher pay with inflation taken into account).

On the other hand, I recognize that the young idealist in us all strikes every now and then. But you've got a family and a paying job so I would recommend you focus on those aspects instead of risking them. I guess if you do decide to act on your instincts, ask them if they're willing to accept the risk for your happiness at work. They're now part of your life and depending on you so respect that and be responsible.

Re:Man Up

[elrous0]

I just had a horrid flashback to all the shitty jobs I worked before I got my degree. No matter what I do now, I can always say that at least it's better than cutting tobacco, working as a janitor, or working in a convenience store.

Re:Man Up

[Tyler Durden]

I spent the majority of my childhood until I was 18 picking rock and bailing hay on a farm. You think you're in a tedious, repetitive and boring job? The fact that you're posting on Slashdot during work hours tells me otherwise. I'll bet you have air conditioning.

Peter Gibbons: This isn't so bad, huh? Makin' bucks, gettin' exercise, workin' outside.
Lawrence: Fuckin' A.
Peter Gibbons: [nods] Fuckin' A.
- Office Space

Re:Man Up

[eldavojohn]

You make a good point. I have worked hard, physical jobs in the past, so I do appreciate the value of having a stable professional career.

That being said, I also appreciate the value of coming home after a long day of work feeling like I accomplished something, even if it was just bucking bales. I can put you in touch with one of my uncles that "bucked bales" for a good 30 years only to find out he was destroying his knees as he did it. Doc says he should look at driving truck and think about how he spends his money as it may be wheelchair time soon.

Or maybe you can talk to my other uncles and aunts who aren't into farming. A few of them tried it but you know there's these things called "corporate farms" that (at least when I was younger) had tax loopholes, subsidies and Republican style protection from taxes. They have been known to put together a failing business model, buy up land, get investors, flood the market with one product for three years while they operate in the red and then just, you know, file for bankruptcy. Since it was all under a corporation they just regroup and do it again next time.

What does all this excess in the market do to the family farm? Kills the income for that year. Family farms can't operate in the red for more than a year. And if you file for bankruptcy, that's your name.

So you basically have to be business smart and have lawyers to be a farmer these days. Just ain't worth it. Easier and more stable to be a Java monkey (look at me!).

Couple that with the tricks you have to pull to pass on the farm and machinery to the kids and you got an impossible sustaining source of income. Happened to the entire generation of farms before me, I'm out.

Sorry to go on a tandem there, but if you are seriously thinking about "working the land" and "accomplishing something" and feeling tired from good hard work at the end of the day, don't do it. It's a crap shoot these days.

Re:Man Up

[vertinox]

I spent the majority of my childhood until I was 18 picking rock and bailing hay on a farm. You think you're in a tedious, repetitive and boring job? The fact that you're posting on Slashdot during work hours tells me otherwise. I'll bet you have air conditioning.

I think he may have misinterpreted what he really means by boredom as burnout.

What do Soldiers, Firemen, Paramedics, and IT person have in common?

Jobs that have times of lulls and then complete disasters that were never the same as before. This is why they attribute post traumatic stress symptoms to soldiers due because its a constant emotional rollercoasters of pure boredom and then unexpected disasters.

Now, IT is no where as bad as being a front line soldier (no ones buddy was ambushed by a sniper in the server room) but overall the same issues that are bad for the mind for the soldier are the same for the IT person.

An IT person sits around until the phone rings, Blackberry goes off, or gets an email and then they have an unexpected issue on their hands they they could have never predicted. It might be as simple as having to show someone how to install a printer to a complete disaster where the exchange server goes down and the CEO needs an important email for a big contract.

A single issue in itself isn't that bad, but the issues keep happening and they are often not the same or at a predictable interval.

I remember a psychological test done on lab rats with such a scenario where they shocked one rat with electricity at regular intervals and then shocked the other at random. Even though the one at regular intervals was shocked more often, the rat that was shocked at random ate less and slept less and could not adapt to the situation.

Same thing with IT and burnout... From an anectdotal experience, I work IT but I have also worked in places like warehouses lifting boxes and sorting orders for a mail order company.

The warehouse was hot and the boxes were heavy and the task with hurt your fingers but for the life of me I miss the job because my job was straight forward and the task was predictable. Sadly, I had to give it up for money and moved back into IT and just deal with the stress as best I can.

So while farming and assembly line work is mundane and boring as heck, the stress levels aren't that bad because the tasks are predictable and your aren't running to one issue or another like a fireman trying to put out fires or a soldier who keeps getting ambushed.

Re:Man Up

[bostongraf]

If everyone in the world decided to just sit back and "be thankful", the world would not get anywhere.

It basically sounds like you are just jealous of the guy having a good job and good family, and want to sound off on that as opposed to actually giving him some advise on where he might take his life next.

That being said, I would caution the original poster to not take another hobby and ruin it for himself by turning it into a career. Most IT people got into the industry because we enjoy this stuff. If the industry has taken the joy out of this hobby, it could very well happen to the next hobby you try to make money off of...

Re:Man Up

[terjeber]

Remember everybody, to escape poverty, you just have to magically say "I'm outta here!" and just like that *poof* you're living the sweet life.

Sigh. Disingenuous bullshit won't make you right. It will just make you look like a disingenuous bullshitter. Try a little less asinine and a little more insight.

I have never stated that you "just" have to do that, and that "poof" something happens. However, you do have to try, and in many cases, after a lot of work, it happens. No magic. Just hard work. That is the reason we are not still in caves trying to figure out where there is a forest fire so we can get our fire going again.

Now, sitting on your hands, complaining to your loving wife about bad cave management is not going to get the fire started, but banging some flint against something actually might. I'd say you go out and try the flint or a couple of sticks then charge the shit out of the privilege of sitting around the fire. Given that the new fire is now your property, everybody has to pay. Lots! People who sat on their hands complaining about cave management deserve no more - or less.

Your maxim of every single human on earth being able to have a magically successful business while everyone else is the poor consumer confuses me.

Your hallucinations are what is confusing you, not my maxim. Please relate to what I actually say, not to what you think I say. I have, for example, never claimed that all who try will succeed, far from it, the vast majority will fail. Is that a problem? Not at all. It is a good thing. With your attitude nobody will try, and by extension, nobody will succeed. It is better everybody tries and 99.9% fails than that nobody tries and no progress is ever made.

But remember, I'm the communist for acknowledging that > 60% of the wealth lies in < 5% of the populace.

No, you are not. You are because you would prefer that everybody had the same amount of wealth, rather than the current situation, even if that meant that everybody was worse off than today. You see, with your attitude, we'd still live in caves, and the poor bastard who was trying to argue that he thought he could find a way to make fire rather than go out and collect it at the next lightning strike, would be chastised and ostracized, or, in the case of you, pitied as a little strange and told to go back and be happy his wife loved him.

Even more, and far more damaging, when the poor bastard ignored your condescension and actually went out and made fire, you would hate him for charging you for enjoying what he created.

Brother, that is never going to change, it is Pareto Law, the world over!

I don't care. It doesn't matter. In 1980 the number of people starving to death was significantly higher than today (even in absolute numbers, which is astounding given the population increase). Since then the amount of wealth has been collected on even fewer hands, but at the same time, less people live in abject poverty. Less people die of starvation. How can that be? Because wealth is created and since it is created it can be concentrated on few hands while still allowing the poorest to do better.

According to the UN, outside of Africa, starvation as a systemic problem will be solved by some time early (2015-2025) this century and even in Africa it will be mostly gone. For the first time ever. By ever I mean, since we climbed down from the trees, ever. That improvement has nothing to do with UN food aid and everything to do with getting out there and trying to make something happen. Fail and fail again, and in the end the world is a better place.

You must be the American for thinking that everyone has an equal share of the wealth and ability to be the successful businessman.

You must suffer from some rather bizarre hallucinations if you can read that into what I wrote. And, no, I am not an Ameri

well..

[thermian]

I have a wife and kid, and had a long term career that I was fundamentally bored with. I quit, went to back uni, and ten years later don't regret a thing.

I say take the chance, or risk looking back in ten years and wondering where your life went, seriously.

Re:well..

[terjeber]

I say take the chance, or risk looking back in ten years and wondering where your life went, seriously.

Amen to that. Unless something terrible befalls you (unlikely) people rarely regret the choices they made and the chances they took. The regrets you have are the chances you never took. The opportunities you had but never caught.

Go to your next reunion and talk to the people who are there. It is usually astonishingly depressing. A huge part of them still remember school as the best time of their life and they always will.

The best time of my life is in the future, and it always will be. Take chances, try new things, and that will always be the case. Don't listen to those who tell you to "be responsible" and "content with what you have". There is only one reason they are giving you this advice. They hate to see you on a new adventure. It reminds them of all the opportunities they passed up in their miserable lives. When you get successful some time in the future, and if you try hard enough you might be, they will tell you about all that they "could have done, only it was... [wife, kids, job, weather, house payments, sick mother - take your pick] that prevented them from becoming successful.

Oh, and BTW, if you succeed, these people will resent you for it.

Re:well..

[thermian]

Oh, and BTW, if you succeed, these people will resent you for it

Yup. I lost quite a few 'friends' who appeared to resent what I was doing when I quit the 'normal' life and did what I wanted instead.
I've tried to rebuild some of those relationships, water under the bridge and all that, but it hasn't worked. I still have a few friends from that time, but only a very few.

It's weird though, responses ranged from shock to outright insults when people learned what I was doing.

What do I have now though? New friends and a happiness I never had before. Ok, life may not be as easy financially right now, what with loans to pay back and all, but that will pass.

Re:well..

[thermian]

That is a lovely sentiment when it works out. If you end up destitute and homeless, or your child ends up with a treatable disease and you can't afford the treatment, it doesn't work so well.

The real world can be a harsh place.

True, but also leaning towards defeatist nonsense. Follow that line of thinking and you achieve nothing but a boring life.
You have to take some risks..

Also, I don't live in the US, so I don't have to worry about medical treatment being withheld because i don't have insurance...

First, look at what you like to do

[spun]

Can you make money at it? Do some informational interviews with people in the field. Cold call around and tell them what you are doing, see if they will talk to you. Most people love to talk about their job. Then you can make an informed decision. Go over your finances, estimate how long it will take for you to get established in your new field, and save up more than that.

Then go for it. Plenty of people change careers and are happier for it.

Your wife

[anthro398]

told me to tell you to hang in there. She probably didn't marry a landscape engineer (yard mower) intentionally. Perhaps you should start exploring other things you can do to give your life purpose: volunteer to help stupid kids, keep poor people from eating each other, or help a sleazy, lying politician get elected. I expect the 'mid-life crisis' is a recent phenomenon that started picking up about the same time Americans started having more leisure time to stare at their navels and contemplate their existence.

Here ya go...

[Tablizer]

I got the perfect thing for you; Cat Juggler:

http://www.diamond-jim.com/catjuggler/

Family is all that matters in life.

[elucido]

Everything should be a means to an end with the goal being to protect and support your family.

If your job pays good money, be a man and provider and sacrifice your happiness so your child can have a better life. Having 8 hours of boring yet high paying work is better than having 8 hours of fun yet low paying work, because the boring life is better for your wife and kids welfare.

Re:Family is all that matters in life.

[MilesAttacca]

Sure, work hard at a boring job so that your child has all the right opportunities to grow up and do the same for his child.

From my point of view, it's better to take a fun but low-paying job, because you'd inspire your kid to follow his own dreams instead of taking the easy way out. (There's also the side benefit of perhaps not being so materially-focused.) Plus, even with your responsibility for others, it is still your life -- as long as you can still keep your family in food and shelter, why not enjoy it?

Also, don'tcha want to be the "cool dad" everyone else's kids want to have? :P

Re:Family is all that matters in life.

[evanbd]

Tell me then... what exactly did his parents sacrifice for? Is his child expected to also sacrifice his happiness, so that his grandchildren can be happy? What of them?

I say, find balance and moderation in all things. Don't give up on happiness, but don't pursue only that. Lots of people manage to make career changes and support a family, and many of them are happier for it.

/. is being an awfully depressed and pessimistic bunch today.

Re:Family is all that matters in life.

[Anonymous Coward]

I whole-heartedly disagree. Unhappiness is unhappiness, and it's powerful.

I'm the son of a single mother who worked bat-shit hard as a doctor. It meant we got to live in an upper-middle class neighbourhood, and I received all the opportunities I could ever need. Unfortunately it meant I effectively had NO parent, and was pressured to act as a parent to my younger brother and sister. When my teenage years came around my mother was too stressed to deal with my emotional neglect and ended up kicking me out on the streets. It was then up to me to work my way out of that situation and I eventually landed a job at Cisco Systems in technical sales, it turns out I was capable of supporting myself. My relationship with my mother hasn't repaired itself after years of seeing counselors, and God knows both of us have tried.

If you're truly unhappy, it's going to have powerful effects on your family. Your son/daughter needs love and support more than they need those extra little material things, and as wild as it might sound: I'm sure your happiness will matter to them. Don't quit IT and become a starving artist, but don't stay at a job you hate. Change things up a bit and find a balance, whether it's inside of IT or not. It's best for everyone when you are happy, even if you provide slightly less. Just be smart about it, because change will be costly (either in money, or giving up material expectations).

Re:Family is all that matters in life.

[metlin]

If your job pays good money, be a man and provider and sacrifice your happiness so your child can have a better life.

What a load of horse dung. There is nothing "manly" about being unhappy and dissatisfied.

Here's a better alternative - be smart, and research into what you like and make a plan to go towards it. That way, you are working towards a goal. And when you finally do accomplish it, you'd be happier for it.

The whole "be a man" and do stupid things for life is the biggest load of nonsense I've heard.

My Dad quit his job as a banker and became a lawyer when I was in school, and now he's very successful and quite happy. My Mom quit her job when she had me, and went back to being a daytrader.

My girlfriend is in premed and we're thinking of getting married and having kids -- but that does not mean that I do not plan on going to business school sometime, or that she's not planning on doing medicine.

You can have both. You just need to be smart about it.

It's all about the benjamins.

[SatanicPuppy]

IT sucks. It's a hard, high-stress field that demands constant study and practice.

This is why it pays well.

Don't expect to be able to hop out of the field and be able to command the same salary unless you have some well-established, lucrative backup profession.

If you really can't take it anymore, expect to downsize your life somewhat. Lack of stress may make up for lack of cash.

The IT industry is maturing

[seifried]

No surprise, the IT industry is maturing (slowly, but steadily). Things should be getting a little more boring for your standard administrator, we have begin to learn and apply the lessons learned over the last 40 years (a.k.a. "best practices", a terrible buzz phrase but an accurate one). So now you have a choice: you can leave IT and find another fiend that is less mature and still growing rapidly, or you can find an environment that still encourages and rewards innovation and new ideas, in other words the difference between slowly tweaking the system so it is more efficient and creating entirely new systems (that may or may not be more efficient, only one way to find out =). My advice is change your job before you change your career.

Here's a suggestion

[Colin Smith]

Set up a large network of thousands of machines, install on them all, some genetic programming software, then have them generate billions of random applications. Then simply release the resulting ecosystem into the Internet. See what happens then.

Time to become a drunk

[tjstork]

Well, let's face it. You didn't get to be an astronaut who went on to be President and beat off an invading alien dinosaur army while curing cancer and feeding a billion starving people, while mistresses of all potential clamoured for your body.

Oh well.

Take some of that dough, get yourself a nice tv and a good bottle of whiskey, enjoy your family at home. You hunter now, must bring home bacon for family. and, if the job you picked sucks, well, at least you got the big tv and a bottle of booze.

welcome to america buddy....

Re:Time to become a drunk

[Optic7]

[...] and beat off an invading alien dinosaur army [...]

Wouldn't his hands get tired?

Re:Time to become a drunk

[sbjornda]

You can achieve almost the same thing with less liver damage and 24x7 pseudo-happiness by getting a whopping big dose of a tricyclic antidepressant. Your quality & efficiency at work may slide - it's going to anyway - but at least you won't care very much.

--
.nosig

Do what everyone else does

[eln]

Get a Porsche and a mistress.

Seriously though, everyone goes through this sort of thing. Since you have responsibilities, you basically just have to decide if the money you make in this field is worth the crap you have to deal with. Keep in mind that a lot of the frustration you're feeling is probably directly related to the fact that you're encumbered with responsibilities, and you aren't free to move around like you were when you were single and childless, so you would likely feel trapped in your job no matter what you were doing at this stage in your life.

If you decide it isn't, you have to come up with a plan that will allow you to pursue something else without making your family live in a box. You may decide to go to school part time at night and work during the day. This means you see less of the family in the short term and it means you have to keep dealing with the crap for a few more years, but it's sacrificing now for a better tomorrow. I've done it, and it kind of sucks, but if you're the sole or major breadwinner in the family, it's probably either that or just deal with the IT crap until the kids graduate from college.

What did I do to get out of the rut?

[Ynsats]

I built a race car.

Seriously. I got together with a friend of mine who is a mechanic and put together a race car to go drag racing. We've won events with national sponsorship, got on TV and even have magazines asking for photoshoots.

I was able to learn alot and I even applied my IT skills in tuning fuel injection and ignition control systems. Now there are people begging me to tune their cars for them and I might actually have a side business that is quite lucrative for not alot of effort given my extensive computer based background. If I play those cards right, I could end up being a legitimate chassis builder and tuner. Kinda cool when you think about how something that was just intended to get my mind off my problems turned into something like that.

Baskin Robbins

[ohzero]

You have what I like to call Baskin Robbins Syndrome. It's where you really really dig ice cream - UNTIL you get a job where you can eat a bunch of free ice cream. You now loathe ice cream.

Unfortunately this cycle is perpetual. Baskin Robbins Syndrome applies to any profession. So even if you're immensely interested in what you do for a living, you will eventually grow to hate it. Don't you think Taco and crew have had mornings where they wake up and go "wow, fuck slashdot, im going to go be a hamster farmer..."

I went through this a few years ago with IT security. I even tried going into gaming. Eventually I solved the problem by taking a year off of anything work related to travel and clear my brain. This isn't an option for a lot of people, but if you can do it, it will change your perspective in a huge way.

Construction

[ebunga]

Several of my friends did construction for a while. A year later they were back in IT. They say the change was great.

Adminspotting

[Tackhead]

(Ten years ago, I saw this gem in the Scary Devil Monastery, and printed it out. It still rings true.)

Choose no life. Choose sysadminning. Choose no career. Choose no family. Choose a fucking big computer, choose hard disks the size of washing machines, old cars, CD ROM writers and electrical coffee makers. Choose no sleep, high caffeine and mental insurance. Choose fixed interest car loans. Choose a rented shoebox. Choose no friends. Choose black jeans and matching combat boots. Choose a swivel chair for your office in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose NNTP and wondering why the fuck you're logged on on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting in that chair looking at mind-numbing, spirit-crushing web sites, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last on some miserable newsgroup, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up lusers Gates spawned to replace the computer-literate.

Choose your future.

Choose to sysadmin[1].

[1] It might fuck you up a little less than heroin[2].
[2] ObFootnote.

Thats irrational and selfish.

[elucido]

If you want to do what you love for all of your life, you shouldn't have kids. The moment you have kids, what you love no longer matters anymore.

The moment you have kids, all your hopes, your dreams, you can throw all of it in the trash. Once you have those kids your purpose in life is those kids and nothing else matters besides those kids.

Just because you feel like doing something else it doesn't change the fact that your purpose in life is to protect your family (your kids). It does not change the fact that you are the only person in the world who can protect them, and they need you.

So what you love doesn't have anything to do with how able you are to provide to your children. You might not love IT anymore, but if it pays well, nothing else matters because the whole point to your existence is to protect and raise children.

If you aren't having kids, then the situation is different. If you don't want kids then you are free to do whatever makes you happy for the whole of your entire life. As long as it pays decent, you'll probably find and keep a woman somewhere in between.

Re:Thats irrational and selfish.

[gunnk]

You are oversimplying -- dangerously so, I think.

Your kids MUST be your number one priority, but should NOT be your only purpose.

If they are, there won't be much left of you or your marriage or your future once they leave the nest.

Having only one point to your existence is unhealthy. Your kids your first priority? Good. The only purpose? Bad -- even for the kids.

Re:Thats irrational and selfish.

[SleepingWaterBear]

You're making the implicit, and totally unwarranted, assumption that the sole measure of a father's success is his ability to bring in money. Dropping out of IT might mean a drop in income, but it doesn't mean he can't find a different way to make money, which is what I assume he intends. There is absolutely no reason to think that he can't raise his children to be at least as healthy and happy on a smaller income.

Depending on what he goes into, he may end up with more time to devote to his family, which is worth more than money.

I'm not saying money is irrelevant, but it is not nearly so important as some people make it out to be.

Re:Thats irrational and selfish.

[Miseph]

Hey, I'm 23 years old you insensitive clod!

Seriously though, the idealization of greed is hardly monopolized by people in their early 20s. I have a long-tem understanding with my friends and family that if they ever feel I am devoting my entire life to a job i hate that they are to do whatever necessary to get me fired so I can re-evaluate my priorities.

Work to live, not the inverse.

Re:Thats irrational and selfish.

[rnturn]

``Dropping out of IT might mean a drop in income, but it doesn't mean he can't find a different way to make money, which is what I assume he intends. There is absolutely no reason to think that he can't raise his children to be at least as healthy and happy on a smaller income.''

I've been thinking along the same lines as the theme of the posted article. And I can see taking a smaller income if it means more time to spend with the family. One of my daughters was complaining the other day that "We don't get to fun stuff with Dad because he's always working". Like the joke goes: "Nobody ever complained on their deathbed that they wished they'd spent more time at the office." Making a career change, though, might not be so easy given the current economic climate. I'll read more of this discussion tonight when I get home and the girls are tucked in.

Tough one

[FuzzyDaddy]

As someone who is also the sole support of a wife and kids, I sympathize with your position.

What I'd suggest is to keep your current job for the time being, and spend some time looking around for what you do enjoy doing. This may or may not be work related. Start and abandon some hobbies, take up martial arts, take some college classes either inside your field or far away from it. But your goal is just to find something you find meaningful.

Supporting a family and loving your work is a tough balance - it would be much easier if your focus was one way or the other, and you will make little compromises on either side. If you make too big a compromise either way, for too long, you will end up regretting it.

So my balanced suggestion is - look around for something that excites you. Give yourself some time to find it. Meantime, don't quit the day job.

Maybe think about technology research?

[Enleth]

From what you said, I guess you have quite a lot of first-hand experience and knowledge in a broad set of technical subjects. That means you probably have good reasoning and logical thinking abilities, which in turn makes you quite a good candidate for a more research-oriented job, instead of maintenance, which indeed can get boring after some time.
In fact, people with you experience are very valuable in research teams, as those who use the current technologies routinely have the best knowledge of their shortcomings and pitfalls and can give the most valuable input into improving them - sometimes many times more valuable than people who created them.
Additionally, research gives much more satisfaction - instead of just creating something useful, you create something better and more powerful as well, probably easing the work of all those you worked with before, who still do their daily administration routine.
And be assured, there's no shortage of jobs in the network technology research field - fiber optics, high-speed wireless, large-scale routing, extreme load-resistant and distributed systems, and many more.

I feel the same way - Here's what I did...

[microTodd]

I am in a similar situation as you...15 years in the industry and burnt out. I try and try to put myself in the mindset of "just work your 8 hours and collect your paycheck" but I can't. I WANT to have passion and excitement for my work, but just can't seem to find that anymore.

So what can we do about it? :-)

A lot of this depends on your life circumstances. Since you're married with kids the career change can be a scary challenge. However, perhaps you and your wife have an excellent financial position (i.e. low debt) and can afford to scale down your quality-of-life a teeny bit and you can take a pay cut. Or, if you're totally insane you can start your own company. Start a Subway franchise or something.

So here's some of the options as I saw them:

-Complete career change: The problem here is that this is kind of the same solution as "rewrite all the code from scratch". Read this to realize why this is a bad idea. You are throwing away *TONS* of sunk costs in experience and education.

-Go back to school (maybe at night) and learn another trade, then transition to that. Safe, but slow. Initially expensive.

-Get a hobby, part-time night job, or something that peaks your interest. I started teaching adult algebra classes at night and I love it! Yes, IT during the day still sucks but teaching at night makes it way more bearable.

-One-off career change...can be difficult but doable. Maybe hire a professional career counselor or resume writer.

The closest I've come to solving this dilemma is getting hobbies and part-time night jobs that scratch my itch. Also, I try to force some of the fun back into my day job. For example, once a week I'll take a few hours and just play with a new language or tool just for fun (although my boss would probably get mad if he found out I was on-the-clock).

Unfortunately, its hard to find a practical solution to career burnout. I believe in a lot of ways this is a spritual problem. i.e. "true happiness is wanting what you have not having what you want", etc. See if you can find satisfaction in your family, in making a salary to feed and care for them, and in focusing on fun stuff outside of work (camping, sports, gaming, arts&crafts, reading, whatever...). Difficult, I know. But be happy that your job is Mon-Fri 9-5 and you're not roofing houses or something REALLY sucky.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Re:I feel the same way - Here's what I did...

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing dumber than Joel Spolsky are the followers who quote him like he's some kind of prophet. If we listened to Joel, no one would ever start anything new, because the only thing worth doing is maintaining old crap, no matter how broken it is.

Chase your passion

[Unoti]

1. Chase your passions. Work in a field that you can be passionate about. The best way for you to be happy and successful is to chase your passion. Crazy examples: maybe you want to create new content in Second Life. Maybe you'd be happier teaching troubled teens how to use woodworking tools. Maybe your dream is to be a park ranger. Figure it out.

2. Don't worry about money. Restructure your life so that you can chase your passion. Figure out a way to live with half of your current salary if you have to. Live somewhere that you don't need a car. Hike with your groceries. Use public transportation. Work from home.

3. If you don't know what you're passionate about, hurry up and find out now, before you're dead. You only have one life. Don't waste it as a slave, doing what you don't want to be doing.

Consider this very seriously. Nobody is forcing you to do what you've been doing. Don't be a sheep, take control of your life, because if you don't there's plenty of other people who will.

I'm changing careers into music

[MichaelCrawford]

I'm now in my twenty-first year as a software engineer. It's not as bad as it was for a while, but for a long time I was so sick of it that I couldn't focus on my work, and was barely able to do enough consulting to provide for myself and my wife.

Several years ago I decided to change careers into music. I taught myself to play piano many years ago, and since making that decision I've been studying it intensively with the aim of enrolling in music school someday, where I will major in music composition. I want to write symphonies!

Of course I realize that musicians rarely earn as much as computer programmers. It's going to be a while before I can pass the entrance audition; during that time I'm continuing to work as a coder, while paying down my many debts as fast as I can. I'm pretty sure I can be debt-free by the time I start school.

I'm also developing a GPL audio application called Ogg Frog, whose website also has articles and HOWTOs on the general topic of digital music. The software isn't released yet, but I'm pretty sure that by the time I do go back to school the software will have been available long enough the website will earn enough money through advertising to provide for myself and my wife.

Musicians need to be well-known to be successful. One way I've been promoting my music is by giving away free CDs of an album I recorded in 1994. If you'd like to receive one, email your name and postal address to support@oggfrog.com

I'm absolutely serious! I've given away almost two thousand of them in person; a few weeks ago I plugged my CDs here at Slashdot and got fifty requests in just one day. I expect to finally mail them on Friday. And yes I am happy to ship internationally.

The music is instrumental piano, and is all my own original compositions.

Re:I'm sitting in the same place

[Unoti]

Get your finances under control. Reduce your need for money. The difference between how much you make and how much you must spend reflects the size of choices available in your life. Reduce your dependence on needing a lot of money each month, and the number of choices available to you increases dramatically, and your freedom increases dramatically.

In my case, I used to own two cars, now I own none. I moved to another state that is 1/2 the price for housing. I quit eating out, started buying things like pinto beans and rice, and cook all my own meals. After restructuring my life, I have far more money and options available to me.

Once your finances are in order, and you learn to do without things like starbucks every day and whatnot, you may find you have the freedom you need to pursue your dreams. It may take years to get to that point, but you must try to take control. Otherwise you forfeit control of your life to the will of others.

Work for free where you're appreciated

[Darth_brooks]

I used to work for a paycheck. I still do my job to support my family and lifestyle.

But I *work* for a non-profit that I love and enjoy (check the homepage). It's got all of the same pitfalls that my jobs have had (petty power struggles, empire builders, personality conflicts, budget BS, the works), but the overall mission and work environment are awesome. I watch mistakes get made at my job, and I get to *not* make those mistakes. I learn about something new that could move us forward as an organization? I've got a near consequence free environment to try it out.

And one of the best parts of it all....as a volunteer I can just walk away. When going out to the hangar and hanging around WW2 bombers just isn't fun, or I don't want to deal with some of the people....I don't. I exercise the luxuries that I just don't have at my job.

I've heard that several of the Apollo astronauts have problems with depression after their missions were over. They had become men with no mountain left to climb. They had focused their lives on a goal and, once they'd achieved it, they were left with a giant, empty "what next?"

Rather than going all 'Fight Club' and destroying what you've made of yourself in favor of becoming a self-actualized burger inversion specialist, why not try and create something greater. Use your skills somewhere that make you happy, even if you've got to log 40 hours of boredom to support those 10 hours of doing something interesting.

A little from column A, a little from column B...

[TheLuggage2008]

Have you considered "doing what you love" as a part time job? Start small, see if you can grow your passion into a money-maker.

There would be a couple of advantages to this:
You can experiment with the new career idea while maintaining the IT career as a saftey net.
Making the thing you love a job means that you make the thing you love a job. Some of the greatest pleasures we have are precious because they come in small doses. Turning your passion into a responsibility may rob you of the joy it brings now.

Either way, good luck with the decision.

doing what you love

[falconwolf]

Do what you love. In the end it is all that matters.

But pr0n don't pay if you are male

Sure it does, start your own paid porn site. Actually about 10 years ago I read an article in an internet magazine about how Asia Carrera taught herself how to program so she could start her own porn website, I think it said she made a lot more from the website than she did acting.

Falcon

Re:Why would you need more than one point?

[Rakishi]

Yeah because kids in a household with with constant arguments, unhappiness, bickering, yelling and threats of divorce grow up to be such mentally stable people. That's not even counting what sort of downright horrid role model you must be for them, god knows what a kid who thinks life is nothing but a perpetual string of misery will do.

Humans are human, we are not machines and assuming you are a machine generally ends very badly for everyone involved.

I saw "be thankful for what you have"

[Shivetya]

and realize that some things are of far greater value.

While job satisfaction is something we should always strive for we seem to have a generation who doesn't see a reason to sacrifice, for however long, to meet truer and more important goals.

Sorry, family comes first. You provide for them then you provide for yourself.

So basically I saw "suck it up" "quit whining" etc... and I think its valid, sorry but IT is easy street. If you don't enjoy your job then look elsewhere but make sure the important stuff is taken care of. Whining about your job on a message board is just asking for it. He should already be looking, have an up to date resume, and going to work doing the best job he can so that there is no threat to his ability to provide for family.

We aren't all handed life on a silver platter but it says a lot about us on what we consider important. I think doing a good job is important but when it comes down to it, I choose family first. If this means grinding out a job I don't like till something better comes along then I do it. Like the post you replied to people have an incredibly arrogant idea of what constitutes a bad job - we have it damn easy when it comes to working conditions. I watched the guys building my house in the hot hot Georgia sun and was thankful I had a different set of skills. I grew up on a farm and knew that while that lifestyle has many appeals it was not for me.

I see no jealousy in that reply. I do see that it may hit too close to home for someone.

Okay, well

[Knara]

I'm creeping up on my 10th year where I could be said to be doing computer support professionally. I went through about 5 years where I was like, "wow, this sucks and isn't very challenging".

I figured out though that there's real benefit in having a job where I can go home and the end of the day and forget about work and do stuff I like. Not to mention that even though the things I do from day to day aren't amazingly challenging, it isn't that way for everyone I work with, and as such, it's much easier to stand out and be regarded as excellent in my professional field.

So yeah, look around and consider all the options, but my advice? Don't make your work your life... unless you're getting paid millions of dollars quarterly, then make it your life for 10 years and retire. :D

Re:A father must at LEAST bring in money.

[LandDolphin]

BUT IT IS NOT MY IDEA TO HAVE A 40 HOUR WORKWEEK.

People who talk about how a man should spend more time with his kids need to either stop complaining and do something to reduce the hours that men have to work in order to provide, or they can just accept the fact that society is just demanding more and more from people

But when you talk about the below $100k range, well, I'd rather sacrifice my happiness to get into the $100k range so my kids can go to Yale.



From your post, it seems like it IS your choice. You choose to work enough to send your kids to Yale. You choose to trade time with your kids to send them to Yale. Yale is not a requirement, they can live a good life if they go to a University, or even a community college.

You mention: if I could make $100k a year working 20 hours a week I'd rather do that than work 40 hours a week and make $200k

That is where YOU set your limit. You could work 20 hours a week and live off of $50k. BUt you'd rather trade your time for money. Society is not forcing this on you, you are.

Re:Not at all

[discogravy]

well, self-employment isn't for everyone.

Re:Just goes to show you

[Cassius Corodes]

Time machine, duh.

Get in comrades, we'll stop the capitalist pigs this time!

Quit and Send Your Wife To Work!

[bmcent1]

That's what I did after 10 years in a nice IT job.

This depends on what your wife is skilled in, and if she wants to work. For us, I was burning out and ready for a change, my wife, recently having received her PhD., was ready to launch her own career. Both of us thought having one parent stay home with our new baby was the right thing to do, even if it mean watching the budget closer.

1.5 years later, I can honestly say I don't miss IT in the slightest. Except that I have a whole new respect for stay at home parents! It is more rewarding, and at the same time more challenging than the IT job ever was.

Hadn't seen it posted yet, so wanted to throw that out there.

I'm going to disagree with many here...

[sydbarrett74]

...and say that putting your family through some short-term sacrifice/danger/inconvenience may not be a bad thing is the longer-term payoff is worth it. Let's say you take a temporary income hit in order to switch careers. The payoff is that you're happier, don't snap at the kids and wife as much, have higher earning potential, feel more satisfaction with your life. Sounds worth it to me. My reaction to all of these 'dig ditches and put up with it for the sake of your family' posters is that they're being overly fatalistic.

Go for the middle road

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been in IT for about 11 years now. Getting paid really well, and I like the work. But there is a backdrop to this. I worked in some factories and had very bad experiences as a "blue collar working class guy". Really harsh working conditions and low pay. Then I went to college and got a degree in Environmental Sciences. I worked in that field for about 10 years, and advanced very well. I didn't pay as well as most professional jobs, and eventually I grew tired of it for various reasons. The reasons are not important - it's how you look at your job and life in your current situation. When I was near the end of that career, I got married, and moved into IT. I had a keen interest in it, and took advantage of the Chubb Top Gun program, which no longer exists. I got to get 4 free months of education and then placement with a company, where I had to work as an indentured servant for 8 months at really low pay. But after that my salary increased dramatically ever since. (I can't believe how much I make now.) I have a family to support now, and I do it well, in large part because of my switch to IT. A year ago, I felt exactly the same as you, and made the decision, at considerable risk of stability and accrued benefits, to change my job because I "just couldn't take working for that place anymore". I now have a really good gig that I can definitely live with and allows me to spend plenty of time with my family. Sure, IT is kind of "old" for me, but I think what I am doing now, combined with the family responsibilities, is a reasonable compromise.

So, to summarize - we all eventually grow tired of the same IT stuff after a while. But you can make a change that takes advantage of your experience that will give you enough of a change of scenery and enough challenges to motivate you. Going into something completely different may seem good in the beginning, but you may feel the same as you do now after a number of years. Examine yourself and your own feelings about why you find your work "very tedious, repetitive, and boring".

Good luck.

Left IT and glad I did

[chooks]

Well if you have gotten past the slurry of goatse references, random trolls, and at least one or two (hundred) Vista jabs, I laud your patience and thank you for reading my $0.02. I was in IT for about 10 years, worked hard, made great money, and never lacked for a job.

But I had to leave.

It wasn't just the continued feel of deja vu. I mean, if you switch jobs or do consulting/contracting, you get used to arguing for the benefits of process, unit testing, design, etc... But everything just was getting so boring. The options of tech people -- staying in the trenches and fighting the same battles year after year or going into management (yawn) weren't really appealing to me. And really at the heart of it was a nagging feeling of there being something that would be better for me to do (more complimentary to my strengths, more intellectually interesting, more personally satisfying).

I think you need to look at what you feel is missing with your job. Many people have suggested looking for a different job in the same field. That is good advice. If you do not think you can get what you need in the field, then consider a job switch. If you think you need a job switch, make sure you and your wife are in agreement on the course of action (well - since I do not have a wife, I would assume this is the best course of action :)

Even though you have a wife and kids, many things are possible. I switched from IT to medical school, and am almost 1/2 way done with my M.D. I have many classmates who are in the 40s (and some in their 50s) with wife and kids and manage to make things meet. I do not regret the switch one bit, and while the loss of income is difficult, it is only temporary.

Many will argue that you need to stay where you are for your kids. Perhaps that is true, although giving your kids an example of having strength/tenacity/etc... to make a positive change in your life might be good as well. You have been given a gift of having options in your life. That is not something that many people in this world have (even in the US). As an engineer you know that there are many ways to fix a problem - the trick is to find the right method for the given situation.

Not sure if this has helped out at all, but you know what they say about free advice...

IT is becoming like stationary engineering

[Animats]

Around 1880 or so, an exciting, growing field was "stationary engineering". Factories and cities were getting steam and electric power, and people were needed to make it all work. This was a good field for a bright young person interested in technology. "Stationary engineers" installed the equipment and kept it going.

Stationary engineering is still an active field. There are about 120,000 members of the Stationary Department of the International Union of Operating Engineers, keeping the wheels going around, the boilers hot, and the pressure within limits. The symbol of the IUOE is a steam pressure gauge. These are important jobs. Without them, industrial civilization would literally grind to a halt.

It's been a long time since stationary engineering was an exciting growth industry. Today, it's a dull maintenance job. That's where most of information technology is going.

Except that IT isn't unionized.

Re:Just goes to show you

[FrozenFOXX]

I thought in the Soviet USA the USSR came to you. Problem solved!