Bill Would Bar US Companies From Net Censorship

Meredith writes "A bill that would penalize companies for assisting repressive regimes in censoring the Internet may finally be headed to a vote. The Global Online Freedom Act 'would not only prevent companies like Yahoo from giving up the goods to totalitarian regimes, but would also prohibit US-based Internet companies from blocking online content from US government or government-financed web sites in other countries.' Unfortunately, there's also a giant loophole: the president would be allowed to waive the provisions of the Act for national security purposes."

Comments

Stop other people from censorship

[Asmor]

So, in other words, the bill would prevent US companies from helping censorship in countries other than the US. Awesome.

Re:Stop other people from censorship

[ArcherB]

So, in other words, the bill would prevent US companies from helping censorship in countries other than the US. Awesome. An example of why I think the point of allowing the US Prez to allow censorship is, let's say a group in Afghanistan are using the webcams to track US troop movements and MSN messenger to pass data and orders.

Another example would be using the web to follow or report on NYPD officers to plan when to plant a bomb or whatever.

Finally, let's say someone stole the plans to the F22 fighter that exposed a way to detect it via radar and wanted to post the information on their MySpace page from an Internet Cafe...

These are just a few examples of where I think the Prez should allow censorship of Internet activity. Generally, censorship is a bad thing, but not always. On RARE occasion (Very RARE), it's necessary.

National security more important than individuals?

[mozumder]

Why is he allowed to waive a person's rights for national security purposes?

National security is HIS problem, not the individual's problems. The constitution doesn't limit the right to expression, assembly, and so on, on the condition that it be used to protect national security. If he can't protect his country without infringing on constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of individuals, then well, sucks to be him. I can has new country, pleeaz.

The individual is more important than the government, not the other way around. The government can die, for all we care - it can be replaced by another piece of paper quite easily.

Great news!

[sm62704]

A bill that would penalize companies for assisting repressive regimes in censoring the Internet may finally be headed to a vote.

Does that mean the "child porn" laws and DMCA are repealed?

Re:Great news!

[TubeSteak]

Does that mean the "child porn" laws and DMCA are repealed? FTFA:

When it comes to non-government sites, the Act would require companies to disclose to the newly-created Office of Global Internet Freedom the terms that they do filter, and for the Office to continually monitor these filtered terms. Would this make the US Gov't a direct party to overseas filtering, since they know what's being filtered and have a veto over its filtering?

What's the goal?

[mrami]

So to the average Chinese resident, services like YouTube will just disappear. Then they'll see a story on the gubmint-run news saying how the West cut off all those sites because they hate the Chinese and don't want them to succeed. And we're going to convince them otherwise... how again?

Re:What's the goal?

[LionMage]

Goal 1 is achieved by putting social pressure on a repressive/authoritarian regime -- the citizenry of that country (e.g., China) will presumably be upset that they can no longer access certain sites, and will complain, or engage in civil disobedience by bypassing any locks and controls enforcing the ban on those sites. Alternately, people within the repressive nation might be motivated to create their own alternative site that is inside the nation's firewall, and thus harder to block (at least in the short run -- someone maintaining the site might still have to do subversive things like move the server periodically to avoid detection by the authorities).

Goal 2 is absolutely guaranteed, in the sense that it prevents U.S. companies from developing "unclean hands." If a foreign nation wants to censor the Internet and prohibit its citizens from seeing certain material, that's their prerogative -- but no U.S. company should ever be complicit in such censorship, and this bill would mandate a moral or ethical imperative for businesses. It's sad that U.S. companies wouldn't choose to avoid such coercion on their own, but as their rationale for supporting foreign censorship efforts is the consequence of non-compliance (i.e., not being able to do business in that country), these companies are heavily motivated to just "go with the flow" by profits. This law mandates a moral backbone at the expense of profits.

Personally, I don't see this as any different from child labor laws -- when such laws were enacted in the United States in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, many capitalists decried them, but morally it is the right thing to prevent the exploitation of children, especially in dangerous jobs. Many companies now get around these laws by exporting labor to countries which don't have adequate child labor laws (nor adequate enforcement of any existing laws), but the social climate in the U.S. has changed to the point where the exposure of such wrongdoing elicits the appropriate outraged response.

So, in the long view, goal #1 is preserved, even if in the short view Chinese citizens get a bunch of web sites blocked. In a sense, that's kind of the point -- force the issue and see what develops. If the Chinese people (or the Iranian people, etc.) don't complain and demand change after their own inept regime is forced to do all the dirty work itself, then they didn't deserve what little illusion of freedom they had to begin with. You're either totally free or you're not. I'm sure at least one of the authors if this bill is counting on the Chinese government reacting in knee-jerk fashion the second this goes through, possibly by yanking the rights of American IT companies to keep offices in and do business in mainland China.

Having said all that, I'm sure the Chinese authorities will probably take a pragmatic approach and try to reach some kind of compromise which allows them to continue with business as usual, while letting U.S. companies off the hook. "You can host whatever you want in our country, but we reserve the right to place filters on all network connections going in and out of your local data centers."

What about hardware?

[nebaz]

Will Cisco be penalized for helping create the "Great Firewall of China" in the first place?

Re:What about hardware?

[techpawn]

You can't pass a law illegalizing a previously committed action

Or passing a law saying that your warrantless wiretapping program wasn't illegal and all parties involved get immunity because it's for the good of the nation and the failing economy, besides they wheren't doing anything illegal anyway.

Yes, you can not do that.

oh, that is rich

[museumpeace]

the US is hardly the one to penalize anyone for supporting repressive regimes. How recently was Saddam Husein a client of our state department and defense organizations? Or Pinochet or...you know it is a long list.

Re:oh, that is rich

[Robert1]

So you would rather they continue to support oppressive regimes than try to be progressive and move away from those policies and do so through passage of laws explicitly prohibiting support?

You clearly don't like what they did before so why the hell are you whining about them trying to rectify that and ensure it happens less in the future? It's like your'e bitching for the sake of bitching.

Re:oh, that is rich

[museumpeace]

having said nothing more than I did, I suppose you could be right. But while we we make that insignificant token step in the right direction, do we use it to deflect calls for substantial corrections to our rights-shredding and our hypocrisy about oppression? I am not opposed to this measure...unless it is a way to deflate initiatives toward other measures. And do you not admit its a tad ironic?


Besides, I can bitch for a lot more reasons than self righteous gratification.

Like shouldn't we put our own house in order first and stop giving our executive a free and warrantless hand to access any communications among its citizens that it wishes?

Our pot is so black none of the kettles should be expected to listen.

I would love to see

[iamacat]

Other countries to follow up with laws that prohibit their companies from following US laws. Like controlling lead content in toys or blocking Al Quida terrorist training material.

IOW: Do as we say, not as we do

[denis-The-menace]

Seems to be perfectly in line with the same reasoning on torture vs. waterboarding.

One is "bad" the other is somehow different.

Does that include ours?

[portnux]

Would that list of "repressive regimes" include the good old USofA?

Re:So....

[calebt3]

And the President can't claim ignorance when it happens.

*Table thumping* In the name of National Security!

[Bananatree3]

Miy Fellow Americans!

Today, I present to you a bill to help spread freedom around the world. To stop companies doing evil and censoring global citizens from accessing the Freedom of Press here in America. (*sniff*, *sniff*, I love America...)

(Fist thumping the desk) But in the name of NATIONAL SECURITY, I'll reserve the right for the President of this (sniff) great land to, as he sees fit, step in and block access to any site he deems a threat to this great land.

Thank you all, and God bless ya'll.

Bad idea

[Orig_Club_Soda]

We have to pragmatic here. If our companies don't do as foreign countries ask all that will happen is they will block US internet companies. That's removing 3-5 billion potential consumers.

This is disastrous and will only make the economy worse.

This contradicts the DCMA

[rjamestaylor]

In the US, we censor thing, too: through the DCMA. How does one reconcile these two US laws (assuming this one is passed)?

Re:National security more important than individua

[Moofie]

"The Constitution doesn't apply to the world at large. It is by and for US citizens."

Read it again. It is a list of things that the United States Federal Government is allowed to do, and enjoined from doing. It doesn't give anybody any rights...it enumerates specific rights (and an incomplete list of those rights) that the US Government is particularly not allowed to infringe.

Not "citizens".
Not "non-terrorists".

Everybody.

(well, that's the way it was designed, anyhow...)

Re:So....

[MBGMorden]

Well, national security can be important, believe it or not. If somebody posted the floor plan and guard rotations for a large water processing plant, would you really want a law that said nobody could tell them to take down the information? Actually, I would. What you're defending is the real-world version of security through obscurity. If knowing the floor plan and guard rotations of a water plant is sufficient for a person with ill intent to gain access, then the security situation at this water plant is insufficient. Physical security must be designed just like computer security: it works even against someone who knows exactly HOW the system works.

Re:So....

[piojo]

Security by obscurity is bad, but there are two large holes in what you said:

1) Good security can be effectively supplemented by obscurity. No security system is perfect, and it's perfectly reasonable to make the system harder for an outsider to understand. (Please don't bring up the Open Source argument. A water purification plant isn't a fun software project, and people don't augment that type of security system for fun.)

2) You just advocated allowing somebody to broadcast, "Come poison this well! Here's most of the information you need to kill thousands/millions of people." This should be allowed because their security isn't good enough? Are you crazy?

Re:So....

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, not really. Knowing that there are guards on rotation would be knowing HOW the system works. Knowing the actual rotations/routes would be like having the decryption key allowing you to bypass at least one portion of the physical security.

Re:Your analogy fails

[megaditto]

Asking when he works and when his wife and kids are home is just being a dick and you know it. He doesn't have the same kind of security a water processing plant should Security through obscurity is about the most effective kind in the "real" world. Security through obscurity is the reason why we can't get Bin Laden or know where all of Russia's or China's nukes are.

Security through obscurity is in fact extremely effective, hence the reason people use camouflage, hide their military movements, encrypt their communications, hide their passwords, etc.

The only reason it is sometimes frowned upon is because the users might tend to be overly confident and overestimate the level of protection it provides.

Re:So....

[MBGMorden]

Ok, so suppose somebody posts the encryption key used by the VPN into the water supply system?

Or the 10-digit code used to unlock the front door? What's more sensible:

a. telling them to pull that information down,

or

b. CHANGING THE CODES IF THEY'VE BEEN PUBLISHED.

Trying to stifle information is not wise. Correcting the problem itself rather than trying to hide it always works better. In your example, it's already been proven that somebody you trust is willing to publish that information. Pulling it from the net doesn't meant they can't tell friends, or that anyone who saw it before being pulled will magically forget it. Work to eliminate the source of the leak, change the codes in the meantime, and forget about trying to put the genie back in the bottle.

Re:Protect act of 2003 made them illegal

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, I've always wondered how we are protecting children by outlawing computer generated and animated child porn. If no child was ever involved, and the images aren't made in the likeness of an actual individual, where is the child abuse?

I'm not advocating child porn, just wondering where the logic comes from.

Re:So....

[AJWM]

and it hasn't happened yet.

On Sept 10, 2001, nobody had flown commercial airliners into the WTC or the Pentagon yet, either. "It hasn't happened yet" is a damned weak argument.

Re:So....

[NiteShaed]

The President doesn't have to claim ignorance, he embodies it.

Another loophole

[wealthychef]

Unfortunately, there's also a giant loophole: the president would be allowed to waive the provisions of the Act for national security purposes."

And of course, another loophole is that the US government can go ahead and "censor" anything it wants (e.g., child porn, "terrorism" sites, whatever). National security, hmm... whatever happened to "give me liberty or give me death" and "the society that chooses security over freedom deserves neither"?

Insufficient protection

[Eravnrekaree]

It seems ironic that the US government is paying so much attention to censorship in other countries when it refuses to prohibit censorship being commited by corporations right here. This law is quite insufficient in protecting freedom of speech. No corporation should be allowed to manipulate content which is transmitted over the internet. Truly ISPs are common carriers and should be required to transmit data verbatim. Corporations can, via owning critical communications infrastructure such as this, become governments by controlling what can be sent over the internet. You cant have this in a truly free society and the US governments inaction to prevent this censorship shows their lack of regard for the peoples freedom.

With the proposed law, the national security exemption is the sort of thing we see as a typical fixture in totalitarian government, The government will have a constitution or a law which claims that the people have free speech rights, to make people think they do, but then in the fine print adds exceptions so vague you could drive a truck through it, like national security, which can be interpreted so loosely it can be applied to nearly anything by a corrupt regime. Many totalitarian governments have a form of this where these rights can be suspended in an emergency, so the government simply declares a perpetual state of emergency. Telling people they have free speech, but only as long as the government approves of it, is not free speech.

Re:National security more important than individua

[falconwolf]

If I owned a business that could make a buck supporting a regime that wasn't anti-US, I'd do it no matter how "repressive" they were. That sort of ruthlessness helped win the Cold War, and there is no reason the shrink from it now.

So you would support the massacre of 200,000 people? That's what President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger did when they supported the Indonesian dictator Suharto's invasion of East Timor. That 200,000 massacred was 1/3 of East Timor's population.

Falcon