ASIMO to Conduct Symphony Orchestra

DeviceGuru writes to mention that Honda's ASIMO robot will apparently be leading the Detroit Symphony Orchestra in a performance of "Impossible Dream" from the conductors podium. Along with cellist Yo-Yo Ma, the mechanical marvel will hopefully have a better performance than some of the earlier public appearances. "Honda says it is giving the Detroit Symphony Orchestra a gift of more than $1 million to create The Power of Dreams Music Education Fund. The fund is intended to help the Detroit Public Schools, which has suffered from severe cost constraints that have hurt the district's ability to provide music education, offer students the opportunity to learn to play instruments, read music, and participate in bands or orchestras."

Comments

Patronage

[gihan_ripper]

It's a shame that the Detroit public school system is in such a dire state that it has to stoop to entertaining Honda'a whims in order to gain funding. This harks back to the old days of wealthy patrons supporting the arts. Though in this case, it's a large Japanese corporation rather than individual aristocrats.

Re:Patronage

[m.ducharme]

What old days? The patronage of wealthy people has never stopped funding the arts, and continues on to this day. Most major arts centres are funded in large part by their endowment funds, and those organizations pay money to people who ensure that those endowment funds continue to receive large donations.

Re:Patronage

[gihan_ripper]

Sorry, I should clarify that I'm writing from a European perspective. In Europe (certainly in the UK), the arts are primarily funded by the government, or by other public bodies. Read the BBC article. In this respect, the US is much more antiquated. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by this ASIMO story, but I am surprised none the less.

Re:Patronage

[strabes]

You're making the assumption that the arts are better funded by government. Yes, I realize the Founders of the U.S. made provision for the "useful" Arts in Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution, but that is what is known as the "Copyright Clause" and says nothing of funding. I see no reason for government to become involved in funding the arts, especially when there is more than enough private capital readily available.

Re:Patronage

[portnux]

What's a shame is that Honda won't offer me a million bucks to let that goofy thing mow my lawn.

Re:Patronage

[owlnation]

In Europe (certainly in the UK), the arts are primarily funded by the government, or by other public bodies. Read the BBC article. In this respect, the US is much more antiquated. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by this ASIMO story, but I am surprised none the less.

This is true, but this is not a good system -- at least in the UK. The problem with the Arts Council and Lottery funding is that is is bureaucratic, clique-ish, nepotistic, and absolutely thoroughly corrupt.They are unaccountable and wholly non-transparent.

As someone who work regularly with new filmmakers in the UK, let me assure you that none of these funding bodies will help anyone they don't know, or have a relationship with in some way. It's jobs for the boys -- just like any local government or NGO organization.

A mixture of Government funded things (with full transparency and accountability) and private finance is the only way to ensure new artists and new work is created.

For all that Europeans like to boast and be elitist about their arts systems, other than in the former communist countries, there's very little art created compared to the market driven US systems. Take TV for example -- the US TV shows hire the best people in the world, they are innovative and challenging despite the limits of the ratings system. There's no shows from any other country anywhere that offer that degree of technical talent, and technical innovation.

Dearohdearohdear

[Harold Halloway]

Having known a few professional orchestral musicians in my time, I can tell you that they will be absolutely fucking delighted at having to play with a robot.

Re:Dearohdearohdear

[psychodelicacy]

Many conductors I've worked with are egotistical, loud, and prone to temper-tantrums. At least these musicians won't have to put up with having obscenities hurled at them because they looked at the conductor the wrong way!

Re:Dearohdearohdear

[PMuse]

The human musicians don't need to follow the robot's direction for anything more than basic time keeping. It's not as if the robot were running the rehearsals or deciding musical interpretation. Call me when the robot learns to follow a human conductor.

At least Honda paid a reasonably good sum for this blatant product placement.

Re:Dearohdearohdear

[erlando]

It sounds like you've never sat in an orchestra. The conductor is more than basic timekeeping at all times. If this was not the case, why aren't all orchestras just using a metronome at their concerts?

My prediction is that this performance will be under par for the orchestra. It will sound mechanical.

Re:Dearohdearohdear

[Clomer]

I am an orchestral musician myself (not at the professional level, but I do play the cello semi-regularly with a local community orchestra). I can tell you that by the time the group is ready for performance, the conductor's job is 99% complete. The main thing a human conductor does is run the rehearsals. He brings the Orchestra together so that they are ready to play together, with a unified vision of the music, on performance day. If he did his job right, then depending on the music he might not even have to be there for the performance.

I guarantee that this robot did not run the rehearsals. A human conductor did. And that human conductor is the true conductor of the performance, regardless of whatever is standing on the conductor's podium when the orchestra actually performs in front of an audience.

I think this is a good thing

[CRCulver]

When it comes to contemporary repertoire, the more "robotic" the conductor, the better the performance. This is because usually composers try to write exactly how their music should sound, extending the notation if necessary, instead of leaving it up to the judgement of the conductor, who might come up with something completely different. In Per Norgard's Symphony No. 3 , for instance, the whole effect of the music is based on as close an adherence to the golden section as is humanly possible by the performers, and a conductor who plays what he sees without adding in any extraneous phrasing is desirable. In Elliott Carter's mature music, balancing all the tempos properly is extremely difficult for a human conductor.

I don't foresee ASIMO replacing human conductors permanently, but I suspect that any performance he conducted of modern works would sound better than those by conductors trained like Bernstein or Karajan, who tried to make the music fit their own universal style instead of following the wishes of the composer.

Re:I think this is a good thing

[dreamchaser]

Let's replace all the musicians as well then with robots who play each note perfectly just as the composer envisioned. No?

This is a bad thing for music, not a good thing, and a cheap publicity stunt.

Re:I think this is a good thing

[dreamchaser]

I've been a musician for close to 30 years and I understand that, but the symphony is NOT the place for non human 'musicians'. There is a place for electronic music, and the symphony hall is NOT it.

Now get off my lawn.

Re:I think this is a good thing

[drinkypoo]

This is a bad thing for music, not a good thing, and a cheap publicity stunt.

Well, it doesn't sound like it's ALL that cheap. But seriously, why is it a bad thing for music? I mean, the same thing was said about the record player, the electric guitar, and the synthesizer (and still is today, but only by luddites. Get off my lawn, and turn down that music!)

Re:I think this is a good thing

[zx75]

The composer gives you structure, the maestro gives it style. Regardless of the amount of notation, simply playing what is on the page without a sense of musicianship is terrible. Now at the professional level I am confident that the players know how to balance themselves and what to listen for... but it is impossible to hear exactly what you sound like down in the pit or on the stage. That is what the conductor is for, to listen to the sound and tell you what corrections to make while you play... something a robot is incapable of doing.

And then you have composers/conductors like John Philip Sousa, and the widely known Sousa-marches. Very technical pieces of work, fast, and they can be hard to play. In addition to that, the score that is written on the page is wrong. I mean, literally Sousa wrote down a lot of notes that you are not supposed to play! Sousa himself knew which parts to play and which to ignore, but others didn't... which is why a Sousa march was never as good unless Sousa himself was conducting it. Only a skilled and attentive conductor would be able to listen to how he actually conducts it and reverse engineer the mistakes that he intentionally made in the score.

Welcome to the world of modern music. A robot can keep time... but so can a metronome. Give me someone who can hear and give me the cues I need to play with the rest of the orchestra while I am busy being deafened by the trumpets.

- From an amateur but active Flautist

Re:I think this is a good thing

[erlando]

A machine may be able to conduct, or play a piano, but a cello or guitar, for example, would be beyond a machine's abilities. At least that's what I hope is and remains the case.
*coughs*

You have GOT to be kidding me. That sounds like a 6 year old who just got finished with the first few lessons. The sound of every note is totally flat. It lacks any kind of touch. Mechanical and insulting to music.

For a $1M Grant...

[FurtiveGlancer]

I'd be willing to listen to robots play a kazoo arrangement of "Feelings" five times. Without earplugs!

Isn't $1 million ...

[NotBornYesterday]

... a lot of money for a fancy metronome?

conductors and orchestras

[chocolatetrumpet]

Consider how orchestral musicians are hired: the best possible soloist (often the most bombastic) is auditioned, but expected to fit in and know their place once hired.

The role of the conductor is as much political--the tamer of egos--as it is musical. How soon ASIMO will take over these duties I cannot say.

Personally, the idea of an orchestra, with so many people trying to do the same thing at the same time, might as well be replaced with robots. A small ensemble where the musicians have room to improvise and explore their personal creativity is much more interesting to me.

does anyone else see the irony...

[acroyear]

...inherent in the very idea that a Japanese robot from a Japanese car company will be leading an orchestra in the center of what used to be America's car manufacturing empire?

DPS

[snkline]

I wouldn't donate money to Detroit Public Schools unless it was with the stipulation that the entire administration be replaced. DPS's financial problems are caused by horrible mismanagement of funds, not because there wasn't enough money to begin with. I wouldn't be suprised if none of that money ends up going to music education....

Detroit is a disaster. The voters are responsible.

[Luscious868]

Perhaps if Detroit wasn't run by a corrupt mayor it's public schools system would be in better shape. Why do African Americans refuse to hold their elected officials accountable when they have clearly committed serious crimes? Marion Barry, William Jefferson, Kwame Kilpatrick and the list goes on. It's a real problem in Detroit going back to the Coleman Young days. Detroit voters would rather stick it to the suburbs by rallying around whichever black candidate paints the other black candidate as being white and in the end the only thing they end up sticking it to is themselves.

Don't believe me? Check out Kwame's State of the City speech and then try and tell me that he isn't trying to rally ignorant African American voters to his side by placing the race card. Read the text messages between himself and the women he was cheating with his wife on. The only person calling Kwame a "nigga" was his mistress.

Any sufficiently advanced technology...

[Moraelin]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged tech demo.

I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about the Asimo if you could actually buy one and see it execute _your_ program, or take your direction. As it is, it's essentially a black box. With all that implies. For all we know, somewhere behind the stage some real guy with a wiimote could do the conducting, and the robot could be just a remotely controlled box.

We've never seen it do anything except in controlled, pre-prepared settings.

E.g., ok, it can walk around corners and up stairs. Can it still do it if we move the corners or the stairs? What about if I bring my own stairs? E.g., so one can move a cart and the other can take a cup from the cart. Does it still work if I come as a human and move the cart 3ft to the side from where the first robot left it? What if I move the tables around? Turning around, bowing and walking off the stage isn't much different. Can it still do it, if you rearrange that setup at all?

There are so many ways one could cheat those demos, it's not even funny. E.g., for all we know, it could just be programmed exactly where to put each foot, in X, Y, Z coordinates, and fly off the handle if the stairs don't match those. Or it could have an RFID chip in each place where it must place the foot, and essentially just home in on those with each foot. Etc.

Essentially we don't really _know_ what it does, except for being a high-tech publicity stunt for Honda. It could be the most advanced robot in the world, or it could be the hoax of the century, or something in between. We don't know.

So basically I'll wait until I see one perform in an uncontrolled environment, before getting all "OMG! Asimo!" fanboy. Until then, heck, the Roomba is more exciting. At least you can see for yourself what it does when you stand in its way.

So until I see it do stuff outside