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China to Deploy Secure GPS by 2010

hackingbear writes "Unsatisfied by the reliance on American GPS navigation systems and not feeling much security joining the European Galileo system, China will expand its 4-satellite Beidou navigation system to a full-fledged, competitive, and encrypted system by 2010."

11 of 217 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Mmmm. by Anachragnome · · Score: 3, Informative
  2. Re:I wonder what else China will do... by jrumney · · Score: 4, Informative

    GPS is one way communication, it does not send anything back to the satellites. To do so would require either a very powerful transmitter on the ground device (say goodbye to GPS in your mobile and other handheld battery powered devices), or a very sensitive receiver on the satellite with the signal processing power to differentiate the weak signals of millions of devices from each other and from the general radio noise coming from earth.

  3. Re:Questions... by Charcharodon · · Score: 4, Informative
    Actually they do have several things like what you are talking about, the thing seems to be cost is why you don't see them in cell towers. They have to be very accurately surveyed to provide better accuracy than GPS.

    WAAS - wide area augmentation system begain deploying a few years back. It has 25 ground sations in the US that recieve the signal and then send corrected signals back up to the satellite.

    The next one, is called LAAS, local area augmentations system, like the WAAS but much more local. It is designed specifically for aviation and is only good in a 20 mile proximity to the airport. It's supposed to be a cheaper replacement for ILS systems.

    Take a look on wikipedia under WAAS GPS & LAAS GPS there are some pretty decent articles on them.

  4. Re:I wonder what else China will do... by dddno · · Score: 2, Informative

    A new "feature" of their expanded GPS network will probably be to tell the police exactly where the user is

    You wouldn't really need any changes to the GPS for that- the satellite has no knowledge about the position of anyone receiving its signal anyway; the positioning signal is one way. In theory, a receiver could of course send an ID and the location it computed from multiple satellites back to one of them- but you'd hardly use the GPS satellites for tracking millions of individual devices. Much more likely, it would work somewhat like the EU's Galileo extension to the COSPAS-SARSAT system.

    But, constantly and silently tracking the location of millions of GPS receivers is - luckily - science fiction as of today.

    Plus, there would be no way of enforcing this - anyone building a Compass receiver could simply ignore the demand for a transmitter/tracker, unless the Chinese released no specs and managed to keep their system completely secret, but this would of course conflict with the availability of a 'public' signal.

    A much more unpleasant thought is that, even today, your current position can be determined at any given time, albeit with low accuracy (couple of 100m in cities), if you walk around with a connected cellphone in your pocket.

  5. Re:I wonder what else China will do... by malsdavis · · Score: 2, Informative

    "China is now gearing up faster in the military front faster than anybody has over the last 100 years. That includes Hitler's build up in 1934-46, and FDR's 2 year build-up"

    Huh? In the mid 1930's Germany was producing hundreds of attack subs a year, hundreds of aircraft a year and thousands of tanks! Unless China has hundreds of secret military factories, they are not even coming close to matching Nazi Germany's militarism.

    If you consider how old most of China's current military hardware is (nearly all their current navy is from the Cold War era), it's not particularly surprising they are using their new-found wealth to upgrade some very old kit.

  6. Re:Interference? by baldass_newbie · · Score: 1, Informative

    One of the big concerns about the Chinese system is interference with the US and European GPS systems, and up until now there haven't been any set specs to start a meaningful discussion over.

    Considering the Chinese were either illegally given our technology by Democrats or outright stole it I think their specs will be kind of close to ours.
    --
    The opposite of progress is congress
  7. Re:Interference? by DrLang21 · · Score: 2, Informative

    How can you expect anybody to cite the lack of published specs? I think that was the joke.
    --
    I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
  8. Re:Encryption by dave420 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nope. The US system has selective availability turned off, and all new US GPS satellites don't even have SA functionality, so they can't turn it back on later.

  9. Re:Will civilians be allowed to use it by zukinux · · Score: 1, Informative

    and will Tibet be in the correct location? In GPS, you can get, for example, in the NMEA0183 Protocol the latitude/longitude coordinations, which means, you'll only get a secure lat/lon.
    What render the lat/lon coordinates, is your own system which puts it on a map. which means, that it doesn't actually important which Satalite you're using to view the map, but the map software you're using which decides which coordinates are where and belongs to which country.

    I hope I was clear enough.
  10. Re:Mmmm. by IAN · · Score: 2, Informative

    Too bad most of the satellites will be knocked out of orbit by all the debris their last little stunt in orbit left behind. Most unlikely, since most of the satellites will use the medium Earth orbit, probably ~20000 km, which is far, far above the debris field left by the ASAT shootdown. The rest of the satellites will be geostationary (per TFA), still farther away.
  11. Re:1 words; Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    the civillian version can be turned off in regions where the US is at war with a technologically sophisticated opponent and the military version left on so only US forces have access to precision location information. This is mostly incorrect. GPS includes a feature called "Selective Availability" (SA), which deliberately introduces errors into the un-encrypted signals, making it less useful for anyone without the proper codes (which is, nominally, anyone outside the U.S. military). SA cannot be used regionally: it affects the entire system equally. It does not "turn off" the "civilian version" of GPS, it just makes it [much] less useful. It was shut off on midnight, May 1st, 2000 by Presidential decree, making "civilian" GPS almost as accurate as military. Turning SA back on would have serious civil reprecussions (the ATC system is now heavily reliant on GPS, for example), and there are some pretty good ways to defeat SA with equipment that is now readily available, so SA is pretty much never going to be turned back on again.

    Europe originally planned to neutralize the military advantage of the US system by putting their signal on a frequency so close to the US M-code one that any attempt to jam their signal would interfere with the US system's operation I can only assume that by "M-code" they mean "Y code" [aka P(Y) code], the encrypted GPS signal that is meant exclusively for U.S. military use. The new version of GPS (version "III") is being designed in ways that will render this problem moot, while also allowing the ability to deny GPS use in specific regions instead of globally. The encrypted codes are going to be transmitted on multiple frequencies that are spaced out while the unencrypted ("civilian") code will still only be transmitted on a single frequency. In a warzone, the U.S. military would simply jam the one frequency carrying the unencrypted code while leaving the other two freqencies alone, so that only U.S. military units would be able to use GPS. Of course, there's nothing stopping a sophisticated enemy from jamming our signals just as we jam theirs, in which case we all fall back equally on older methods of navigation.