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Mars Harder and Colder Than Previously Thought
coondoggie writes "Turns out that the surface of Mars is stiffer and colder than previously thought. New observations from NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter indicate that any liquid water that might exist below the planet's surface and any possible organisms living in that water would be located deeper than scientists had suspected. NASA made the discovery while using the Shallow Radar (SHARAD) instrument on the Orbiter, which revealed long, continuous layers stretching up to 600 miles, or about one-fifth the length of the United States. The radar pictures show a smooth, flat border between the ice cap and the rocky Martian crust, NASA said. On Earth, the weight of a similar stack of ice would cause the planet's surface to sag. The fact that the Martian surface is not bending means that its strong outer shell, or lithosphere, a combination of its crust and upper mantle, must be very thick and cold."
I compiled the first in situ measurements of the annual temp and pressure cylces on mars (viking lander).
I was always surprised by the mars has water debate when it seemed to me the vapor pressure of the atmosphere was less than the vappor pressure of water.
Thus to my mind if mars had water in any abbundance then it had to be bound up in some mixture that was lowering the vapor pressure.
Apparently there may be another possibility: deep very cold storage.
But either way: no available surface water. No canals. no oceans.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
> 600 miles or about one-fifth the length of the United States
Or, to clarify, about 236417 Volkswagen Beetles in length.
So, does that mean that if I don't want my bed to sag I should make it very cold? Or buy a hard one? Or fill a Waterbed with Liquid Nitrogen? Wait, Scratch the last one.. I'm sure that I could use that liquid nitrogen for something else....
before I got married. Should have listened.
"Harder and Colder Than Previously Thought"
Sounds like my wife.
On Earth, a similar stack of ice also weighs twice as much ... it's a questionable comparison from which to draw a conclusion without more information.
Stiff, cold martians.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
It will not stop the organisms eyes from popping out.
Schwarzenegger: Give these Organisms Air!!!
He is the god of war after all. I'd imagine that tends to make one cold and hard over the millenia.
Invenio via vel creo
Shallow Radar? Sounds like something found in women who frequent bars. And all along, I thought it was spelled charade.
Invenio via vel creo
A very interesting read is "Is Mars Habitable?" by Alfred Russel Wallace. Written in 1907 it refutes the then current notion put forward by the astronomer Percival Lowell that Mars had canals, flowing water and plant life.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
As the chances of life on Mars seem to be snuffed out by remote sensing, tell me again why humans need to be sent there?
This was already suspected. The giant volcanic pile of Tharis fails to cause significant flexure of the lithosphere. This has been known since the Viking days. On earth 14000' feet (the height of Mona Loa) is about how much you can load oceanic crust on earth without causing it to sag. On Mars no such sagging occurs, and Olympus Mons is nearly 90000' above the planetary mean! This has been known since the Viking days. The polar observations add another data point, but the result is not a surprise.
an ill wind that blows no good
That at proper serving temperature, a Mars bar's chocolate covering is harder and colder than the chewy nougat and caramel inside.
-- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."
Probable history of Mars:
1) The evil galactic republic sharing disturbing similarities to Microsoft:
2) Independent state of Mars: Oh yeah?! You'll have to pry it out of our cold, dead planet's fingers!
3) The evil galactic republic sharing disturbing similarities to Microsoft: O Rly? *sends in fleet of planet destroyers*
4) The evil galactic republic sharing disturbing similarities to Microsoft: *pries it out of Mars' cold, dead fingers*
5) Mars is cold and stiff.
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
According to the article the ice cap on mars is in four layers each a 1/4 mile thick roughly. These layers each represent a million year period of deposition.
It follows that either there was liquid water and water vapor on mars to deposit the ice at the pole, or there was a horde of very determined martians with trucks to move it there :). I would go with the canals and oceans theory myself.
So we have roughly a cylinder of ice a mile thick and a thousand miles across on Mars. With the careful application of energy that's more than enough to produce a breathable atmosphere or at least provide for a considerable human habitat.
I am less concerned about finding life on mars than I am with putting it there. We can leave to the exploration of the asteroid belt the discovery that mere interplanetary distances are not an effective barrier to lichens, let alone intelligent life. Besides, the best evidence for fossil life on mars will be found in the Basal Unit under that mile thick ice. That's a lot of digging for a girl in a space suit.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Come on, the male Mars, hard... Too many possiblities
That's exactly what I said about my ex-wife!
This ain't rocket surgery.
Mars has a thick crust. It has no plate tectonics. It has the large Tharsis bulge (many hundreds of millions of years old at a minimum), which is a huge load, much bigger than the polar caps, but which is supported by that thick crust. All of this has been known since Viking, if not Mariner 9 (i.e., for 30+ years).
Oh, and thick and cold means that the temperatures are well below the melting point of rock, not water. Doesn't mean that there is subsurface liquid water, but does mean that there isn't, either.
> If there are not subterranean aquifers close enough to the surface to be accessible, then things are going to be very hard-going.
I'm not sure where you got the impression that there is no easy to reach water on Mars.
There are billions of cubic kilometers of water ice quite easily accessible at the poles. Furthermore, it's right there on the surface at the north pole (except during winter when it gets covered by a layer of CO2 ice about a meter thick). At the south pole, water ice lies about 8 meters under the CO2 surface ices. (These numbers are very rough estimates, please note.)
If you want water, just apply heat! The problem of gathering and transportation in that environment is non-trivial, but at least there's no shortage of actual water ice.
They're searching for liquid water because that's more likely to harbor life, but for sustaining human life all we have to do is to live near the poles and melt a continuous supply. What we'd need most is a plentiful supply of energy and good isolation from the dangerous environment.
For more info on Martian polar ices, Wikipedia provides a reasonable summary.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Obviously Mars is colder, it hasn't been hit by global warming. Yet.
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
After encountering a cyberdemon, I have deduced that Mars is harder than previously thought.
Deep fried Mars bars crispier and hotter than previously thought.
Nobody uses miles in astronomy.
I hate when people draw premature conclusions. Its the fallacy of eliminate the impossible and you'll have the truth. The problem is that you don't yet know the full set of impossible, and probably never will.
All this endless nonsense about Mars...does it have water? Does it have life? Can we establish a base, colony, scientific observation platform, there?
... the... the...urge! Pal, go get laid and forget about Mars. You are beginning to embarrass all the rest of us who have undertaken the serious responsibility of preserving, protecting, defending, and improving live for mentally-balanced humans here on Earth.
Seriously, guys, just go pay the $100 and some pretty sweet professional sex worker give you relief to your misguided obsessions. Scientific studies have proven that males who have regular ejaculations are 42% less likely to obsess about Mars than males who don't.
And about your questions. Water on Mars? Who knows? You want water, pal, we got water right here. Two thirds of the planet surface is covered with water. Plenty for everyone. You want life? We got 6.666 billion people right here. Half of them have vaginas. Figure out what to do with them and you won't be so interested in Mars. Guys, seriously, there are no vaginas on Mars. The billion dollar robots that have gone there are reporting back that there is nothing on Mars. You want rocks and endless desert, go to Nevada. When you get tired of rocks and endless desert (and you probably will) then you can just leave and go to Vegas. Cold beer, hot sex workers, computers, and entertainment. There's none of that on Mars.
Guys, Mars is just a dot in the night sky. That's all it has ever been. That's all it is ever going to be. There's nothing there. Really. And it's a billion miles more or less away. You aren't going to go there. No one's going to go there.
Ah, but the science,... the pure science, the challenge, the mystery, the
that's why Venus finally left him.
The Martian core has used up it's store of natural uranium. The core is cold. The planet is dead. Teraforming is a waste of everything. If you want to save the human race from extinction, you need an intergalactic space vehicle.