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US Data Centers Wary of Sharing Energy Data With Feds

1sockchuck writes "The EPA has been seeking at least 100 data center operators willing to share data about their energy usage to help the government develop an Energy Star program for data centers. Thus far, only 54 data centers have signed up, which suggests that few data center operators are eager to tell the government exactly how much energy they are using. The EPA issued a report to Congress last year on data center power usage, and is already developing an Energy Star program to rate servers. Can a program designed to rank the energy efficiency of appliances and computer monitors be a useful tool in addressing the enormous energy consumption of data centers?"

40 of 101 comments (clear)

  1. !evil, just no trust by Chicken04GTO · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some people dont share data with the gubmints not because they are evil but because they dont trust the government. Rank the efficencies of data centers? Cant the people who own/run the energy centers do that themselves? You know, read the labels on the devices and such?

    1. Re:!evil, just no trust by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know, read the labels on the devices and such?
      To some degree, but some possible improvements would require a standardization mandate. For instance, I was reading here a few years ago that Google can make (or get made) hardware to their own specifications, and they save an awful lot of power by using strictly 12V DC to the motherboards, if not the whole boxes. They were advocating for the rest of the industry to do that, but if you run a data center and can't buy the hardware to do that, you're out of luck.

  2. Few? by oodaloop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So 54 data centers responded out of "over 100"? That seems pretty good to me. How many of the rest just didn't know how much energy they used, or couldn't be bothered to look it up?

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    1. Re:Few? by Amouth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      saddly i know the power useage of one data center that would not be reporting in.. lets put it this way.. based on the farm usage they turn off power to other floors in the building.. not to conserve power but because the main line coming into the building is their bottle neck

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    2. Re:Few? by Thornburg · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are reasoning and math lost skills, even on a site tagged "news for nerds"?

      They are seeking "at least 100 data centers" to participate.

      It DOES NOT SAY that they asked 100. They have put out a general request for datacenters of 1000 square feet or more.

      So, out of all the data centers in the US that are over 1000 square feet, only 54 have agreed to participate. That is NOT 54/100 or 54%, it is a drop in the bucket, and it does seem to indicate a reluctance to participate. Although it could just as easily be apathy.

    3. Re:Few? by sabatorg · · Score: 4, Informative

      As someone who has worked around and at several very large data centers including those who hosted servers for ebay, google, accenture, ford, honda, etc, I would suggest that it is very likely that the "rest" have a very good understanding of how much power they consume. Floor space is only a small fraction of the processes of determining server capacity. Power and cooling are the real limiting factor in any large floor space data center.

    4. Re:Few? by oodaloop · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you're referring to reading comprehension skills, not math and reasoning as such. Flying in the face of /. norms, I read TFA again. There is no mention of how many data centers were queried, though their goal of 100 responses could be used to guesstimate. Also, it says the plan is 1 year old and the data centers need to compile 12 consecutive months of energy usage and submit it before June 1. How the 54 other companies compiled 12 consecutive months of data in 11 months is conveniently left out, but perhaps there will be more companies complying with the request closer to the deadline.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    5. Re:Few? by Thornburg · · Score: 3, Informative

      I concede you are correct that it really is reading comprehension, not math or reasoning skills at fault here.

      However, even RTFA-ing twice didn't give you a complete grasp. The article never mentions querying any data centers, just that they want them. They may have called/emailed/mailed to some, or they may have just put it up on the web and hoped.

      Additionally, it says that the participants will begin collecting 12 consecutive months of data at the start of the program, "and submit the data by June 1, 2009." That's next year.

    6. Re:Few? by whoda · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course, over 100 could be exactly 423827 data centers, in which case 54 kind of sucks.

    7. Re:Few? by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or they don't want the environuts to start showing up with pikes and torches ...

      Seems a reasonable fear to me.

    8. Re:Few? by nasor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most of them were probably just too lazy to bother. I'm guessing that the information requested was a bit more complex than "How many kwh per month do you guys use?" The lack of replies probably has more to do with the data center people having better things to do.

    9. Re:Few? by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I know a guy who owns a laundromat. The city did something and connected to his fire sprinkler system for water in the project through the outside port that lets the fire fighter inject a chemical that make a foam suppressant into the system. I forget exactly what was being done but they had to fill water trucks up to hose the dust down and the alternative was running a temporary line that blocked his parking lot whihc meant almost no business until whatever was finished.

      After filing his taxes for the year, the IRS popped an audit and claimed he didn't claim all his income because for a laundromat of his size with X machines, water usage of Y amount would equal Z in sales. They have this down to a science. I guess courts use this sort of information to calculate income from coin operated machines and such too in divorce cases and other lawsuits.

      Anyways, I think the hesitation might be the government saying you used X electricity, you had to of made Y in sales. It would make sense from a perspective I don't think many people are aware of. The guy I know had to get something from the City stating that they used the line with permission of the facility owner in order to get out of the trouble of paying extra taxes. It could also be like you suggested and it is just too much of a hassle. But this story popped into my mind as soon as I read the summery.

  3. Transportation energy use is the key by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Interesting
    We should stop conflating energy consumed at fixed locations from the energy consumed by the transportation sector. We have enough energy in the form of coal, nuclear power, tar sands, wind, solar, cow dung and what not. Sure, there are problems and pollution and different costs and benefits for each of these sources. But the one big advantage they have is that, they don't make us dependent on fickle foreign powers in unstable regions. We are 100% self sufficient in the fixed-point-energy consumption sector.

    But it is a completely different story when it comes to the energy consumed in transportation. There is no viable alternative to gasoline for cars, diesel for trucks and kerosene for the airplanes in the near future. Nothing. And all the crude oil we import goes to transportation.

    The politicians are clueless dumb idiots who go through the motions of doing something, on the crazy logic, "we must do something, it is something so we are doing it".

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Transportation energy use is the key by afidel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Uh, coal and tar sands are kind of a real problem as there are huge impacts on the environment both from mining them and from using them. Probably 90+% of the new capacity brought online in the last 30 years has been coal, and much of that growth has been to power electronics. Datacenters and corporate computers are a non-insignificant chunk of that. I know my datacenter for a midsized company probably draws as much power as the homes of all of the IT staff combined. Transportation is only 28% of the US energy puzzle, and as long as we keep relying on dead plants we are going to have a problem, coal that isn't used to needlessly power datacenters today can be turned into synthetic oil in the future. Hopefully not for transportation but for plastics and pharmaceuticals, where it is used as a feedstock rather than for energy production.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:Transportation energy use is the key by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "But it is a completely different story when it comes to the energy consumed in transportation. There is no viable alternative to gasoline for cars, diesel for trucks and kerosene for the airplanes in the near future. Nothing. And all the crude oil we import goes to transportation."

      Well, you're right for now. While we're starting to develop alternative fuels...let's try to get past the ECO-freaks out there, that won't let us drill for our own oil, in our country!! China is drilling in cuban waters just off the coast of FL...why the fuck aren't we drilling in the lucrative oil fields offshore of FL, NJ, CA...?? Why do we only drill in the Gulf near LA, TX and some of MS, that is insane. We have very high tech when it comes to offshore drilling...and it is very safe for the environment.

      If we could get past the eco lobbies...we could start drilling for out own oil to help relieve the need for foreign imports...we could start building nuke power plants (and for God's sake lets drop the laws that prevent us from using breeder reactors to get more power out of the fuel, and expend it as much as possible)...and those two things alone would help buy us some time till viable alternatives come about.

      We do need to get off the oil teet of the middle east...once we can do that...fuck'em, let'em do what they want over there...and we can get our asses out of there and not have to deal with them any more. Why do we buy so much oil, when we still have plenty to drill for in the US and off our coasts?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Transportation energy use is the key by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, you're right for now. While we're starting to develop alternative fuels...let's try to get past the ECO-freaks out there, that won't let us drill for our own oil, in our country!! China is drilling in cuban waters just off the coast of FL...why the fuck aren't we drilling in the lucrative oil fields offshore of FL, NJ, CA...?? I believe, it is because when the rest of the world is tapped out, there will still be quite a bit in "environmentally protected" areas that will be used to retain world superpower status long after everybody else goes back to riding behind horses.

      It's a long term strategy.
    4. Re:Transportation energy use is the key by dave562 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Why do we buy so much oil, when we still have plenty to drill for in the US and off our coasts?

      If you subscribe to the theory that oil is a finite resource then you are better off consuming everyone else's before you tap your own.

  4. Might not have anything to share by 0racle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not really surprised. I've seen decent sized data centers (100-500 machines) that did not track their power usage. They might not have any data to share with anyone anyway.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    1. Re:Might not have anything to share by maxume · · Score: 4, Informative

      They probably still have some power bills sitting around.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Might not have anything to share by penguinbrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This may be a dumb question - but what's wrong with reading the electric bill for the place? The DC's I've been in or a party too - EVERYTHING connected to the DC or in it, had a purpose solely devoted to keeping the servers up and powered, one way or the other.

    3. Re:Might not have anything to share by Enry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hope you're joking

      Data centers have to know how much they're using as they have to have sufficient UPS backup to keep their systems running in the event of street power outage.

      Groups that maintain these data centers also wind up paying the electric bills, so even if they don't know how much is actually in use at ant single point in time, it's pretty easy to look at a few bills and see what the usage over the past 30 days were.

    4. Re:Might not have anything to share by bcattwoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      The EPA isn't asking for existing data, but for them to start tracking for one year starting in June.

    5. Re:Might not have anything to share by 0racle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One place wasn't a dedicated data center. There were corporate offices of a handful of companies in addition to the one that owned the building. One of those companies ran their own small datacenter (100 machines or so) an the company that owned the building ran 2 (different departments). The amount of power their own used were estimated, and they just ran UPS's that ran over that. The company that ran their own datacenter also paid on an estimated basis of the total amount of power they used. Large portions of the building that were not associated with the datacenter were also on the UPS/Generator in the event of a power failure. They didn't track how much power per circuit was used and they didn't track how much each of those rooms used. They had a big, overall picture.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  5. I can see the headlines now.. by tjstork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Computer data centers use too much energy. Next thing you know, Congressman will be up in arms, hauling data center leads in front of a good public beating, and then passing legislation to tax excess profits. What would happen next? Data centers leave the USA in droves, 1,000,000 jobs evaporate, and the USA loses yet another industry due to a government that is as malicious towards successful enterprise as it is incompetent.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:I can see the headlines now.. by ericferris · · Score: 2, Informative

      Exactly.

      Plus, data center managers are generally busy enough to avoid yet another stack of forms to fill.

      Finally, some DC managers barely know where the power is going. They see the power bill, they seem some automated power meter reading at key points such as power distribution units, but they cannot really tell you how much a machine, or even a rack, is consuming.

      The problem with manufacturers' plates is that the power rating on the plates is ridiculous overkill. A rack-moounted server rated for 600 W on the plate might draw 500 W at start up, when all the fans and hard drive motors are going to max power consumption (electric motors consume more power when starting up than in normal operations). The rest of the time, the server might consume less that 400 W. So you need to drag the server to a lab where its power consumption will be tested under various conditions.

      Baring this, the DC people practice the fine art of "de-rating", in other words, they make an educated guess about how much the manuf's plate is exagerated. This can be hard to explain to bureaucrats looking for precise answers for their surveys.

      --
      Fantasy: http://ferrisfantasy.blogspot.com/
    2. Re:I can see the headlines now.. by segfaultcoredump · · Score: 2

      I went the other route: amp meters on all of the new in rack PDU's (we use the chatsworth vertical power strips and opt for the amp meter option). Its a bit more expensive, but not too bad when you consider the overall cost of what is in that rack.

      This way I know exactly how much the rack as a whole is pulling. More importantly, I know that each of the PDU's in the rack is under 50% so that in case a power supply causes a short, I dont loose the entire rack due to a cascading failure. (I've seen it happen when folks use the 'outlets are available, thus the rack can support another server' mentality and a PSU goes really bad or they just simply overload the system. Easy to do with 110V feeds)

      Based on the direct power readings, our 'de-rating' is based on what we measure rather than what the PSU says. So for us, we know a typical 2 proc dual core amd based server pulls 1.3A @ 208V (about 300w). A full rack of Sun 6140 arrays's? (14 trays total) that thing pulls about 22A @ 208V.

      This also helps us plan how many circuts and what size to drop into each rack. We have found that for our server density, two 30A@208v feeds does the trick. (vs 4x20A or similar). This way we save on panel space, and that makes our electricians happy (rule #1 of the datacenter, do not annoy the HVAC guy's or electricians :-)

  6. Data Centers use a LOT of power! by mlwmohawk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have done a number of projects for a number of companies focused on power saving in the data center.

    One company was building a fan control system to reduce the power used by cooling fans in the racks. We just had a Slashdot article about being more selective about load distribution and shutting down systems not being utilized for the load.

    Data centers use redundant power which is more expensive than line power because UPS system are never 100% efficient.

    To top it off, servers put out a LOT of heat. That is two types of load: The power draw of the server and the power draw of the data center cooling system.

    Data centers are a prime target for green work, and I bet with a little development work you could EASILY cut the power utilization by 30%. Upgrading and replacing four older machines with two newer machines will cut power usage.

    Maybe software efficiency is important again as doing more with less power is greener.

  7. Total = Sum of the Parts by natoochtoniket · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The total energy used in a data center is just the sum of the energy used in the various component parts. The components include the various boxes of electronics, the power supplies, the lighting, and the cooling.

    Every data center operator is intensely interested in power consumption. The power and cooling cost real, serious money. Any reduction in that cost goes straight to the bottom line. And, we have finite power and cooling for the building, so if/when the needs of the various boxes exceed those limits, we have to do expensive and disruptive upgrades.

    If every component part (computer, network switch, ups, monitor, etc.) were labeled with its power and cooling requirements, data center operators would use that information to select equipment that costs less to operate. In the life cycle of a piece of equipment, the electricity to operate it is a big part of the cost. When we go to buy new equipment, we usually have to choose from among several different units that could fit the purpose. The numbers that determine the operating cost absolutely would be used during that selection process.

    A publicity campaign, like "Energy Star" could help us to paint the business "Green". But the numbers are what we really need to make rational business decisions.

  8. The new 32 nanometer processors use less power. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "... enormous energy consumption of data centers"

    That is one of the few world problems that is already being solved. Intel and AMD and others are working on the next generation of processors, that use less power: Intel Says Chips Will Run Faster, Using Less Power. Intel is currently delivering processors built on 45 nanometer rules. (At that size, there are perhaps 1000 transistors in the width of a human hair.)

    They are working on a 32 nanometer process, which has already been demonstrated. The next after that is 22 nanometers and then 16 nanometers and 11 nanometers as the Wikipedia articles say. The smaller conductor width rules use smaller transistors which use less power.

    At the same time, they will make processors with wider silicon wafers, 18 inches wide rather than the 12 inch wide wafers they use now. The smaller devices and larger wafers mean that there will be many more processors per wafer, making the costs go down.

    What these companies are doing is VERY impressive.

    The companies have not been as good at proposing new uses for the greater processing power. Data centers need the greater processing power as well as use of smaller amounts of energy, but where else is more processing power needed? Will grandma's octo-core cell phone of the future not just report the weather, but calculate it? Will games use full ray-tracing?

    I suspect that the greater processing power is needed, but all the needs haven't yet been discovered. To me, that's a very interesting problem.

  9. Re:is this really necessary? by Enry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    An HPC cluster can easily consume 20+KW per rack. Across 5-10 racks (or more) per cluster. And that's not counting the AC that's required to keep the air cool.

    While setting monitors to sleep mode and powering things off do help, data centers have a lot of power use in a small space. It's clearly in everyone's interest to reduce that power since it results in a lot of savings across the board.

    Users can put in more systems per square foot, data center managers can rely on fewer UPS systems and fewer tons of AC, and the resulting lower utility bills is just icing on the cake.

  10. Wary, or Don't Care? by scrib · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's in it for the data center? Of course they're not "eager" for new tasks on their To-Do list!

    "Hi, we'd like you to generously share some internal data and in return we'd like to give you responsibilities and guidelines about how we'll let you give your data to us! Sweet deal, right?"

    Presumably they are paying their power bills and thus have some incentive to take "reasonable" steps toward conservation. The government will need to use a carrot or a stick to coax this information from a busy business. I'm surprised simply announcing an interest in the information has netted as many responses as they've gotten.

    --
    Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
  11. Goverment intrusion? Spyware? by likes2comment · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Perhaps a lot of the datacenters are more leary of "homeland security" putting spyware, etc in their datacenter. Once you let the goverment in to take a look, who knows how much further they will want to go.

  12. In other news by Normal+Dan · · Score: 3, Funny

    Over 50 data centers have given into government demands for private data. There is wide speculation on why so many data centers have willfully fallen under the sway of the government. There are rumors about bribes involving lowering energy costs. How many more data centers will cave? Is your data safe?!

    --
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  13. Ignored like a credit card application by EnOne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are probably at least Two reasons that this was ignored 1) The form letter from the Government was ignored like unsolicited credit card application. 2) The data center in question needs their people to work on projects instead of collecting information for said Government.

    --
    Calvin:Do you believe in the devil? Hobbes:I'm not sure man needs the help.
  14. Re:Google is large, but efficient energy user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    except for their bad, bad, white home page White uses less power on LCD screens.
  15. Yeah, that would be nice by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Our data center had a catastrophic failure last year when the generator test failed and the operators didn't notice they had no power until the UPS died 15 minutes later. Absolutely everything lost power, and we spent the day recovering systems from various messy states. The exception was our Tandem, used for our clinical system, which was kept alive by a series of D batteries powering the CPU. We used to make fun of those D battieries, but never again.

    In any case, our data center is part of a larger facility and while it's easy to report on overall power use for the facility, it's mixed in with so much else that it's hard to get a good estimate for power use by the data center alone. As we found out the hard way, the UPS wasn't adequate for downtimes longer than 15 minutes. We've since made a big push to improve the UPS and reduce the number of physical servers in the data center (switching to virtual whenever possible).

  16. Also, it's not clear this is the biggest problem by The+Second+Horseman · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Data centers themselves are actually (somewhat) easy to figure out - and to figure out how to conserve power, at least to some extent. Nobody's going to do unless they were planning to anyway, or have a financial motive. But at least it's a central location, you can identify where the power is going, etc. It's going to happen over time as the cost of energy goes up, more than likely. One major reason for inefficient data centers is actually a lack of money - you don't get the budget to rip and replace, so you have to keep tacking things on.

    So the EPA likes it because it's tractable. But in many organizations, most IT-related energy use is actually at the edge - factoring in thousands of computers, monitors, printers, edge switches, wireless access points, VOIP phones or digital handsets (a simple analog phone on-hook uses almost no power), etc. Dozens of computers in an open office area adds a significant amount of heat that has to be removed. And as more and more equipment runs uses Ethernet and TCP/IP, you need more and more network switch ports, often delivering PoE. I think a lot of organizations are going to end up pointing fingers at their IT departments because they can identify the cost, and it's easier to blame one group in one location than to face the fact that everyone's incremental usage adds up to significant numbers.

  17. Here's Your Chance by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OK /.ers, how would YOU categorize or classify data centers to provide a little more sanity|classification|taxonomy to this generic study? For example:

    Transaction Processing Center

    High Performance Computing Center

    Corporate Support Data Center

    Web Host or ISP Data Center

    Search Engine Data Center

    Have at it.

    --
    Invenio via vel creo
  18. Which party ran the House and Senate? by HornWumpus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those are the people in charge of writing legislation.

    There is a healthy impulse to create gridlock in DC. A R president often means a D congress, and vice versa.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  19. Re:Whose Really Republican? by moosesocks · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can cherry-pick all you want. In the end, the US government over the past 40-50 years has been defined by policies that would be considered "conservative" in most parts of the globe.

    Much of the legislation you mention was either inevitable, the work of their predecessors, or had little to no impact.

    That said, even though I don't particularly like Bush at all, he has had a small number of bright moments. His most recent Veto of the $288 billion farm bill was absolutely the right thing to do, even though republicans and democrats alike overwhelmingly overrode the veto to let their pork-barrel projects go forward.

    --
    -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose