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Big Rigs Go High Tech

pottercw writes "Trucking may not seem like a high-tech industry to the casual observer, but major carriers are starting to adopt an array of emerging technologies to combat rising fuel costs, tighter regulation and fierce competition. The technologies include systems that monitor and communicate vehicle conditions and performance, enhanced GPSs that keep tabs on tractors and trailers, and safety systems which issue warnings or even take action to help drivers avoid an accident — all working in real time. Computerworld has a cool mouseover diagram highlighting some of the gadgets we're beginning to see on high-tech trucks."

64 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. You cannot let this article stay posted! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Once everyone finds out that the Semi Trucks drive themselves, the truckers' union will overthrow society!

  2. Big Red by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot really needs to get with the times. The Navitron Autodrive System is nearly ten year-old news, though remains a little known secret known to many truckers falling asleep at the wheel.

    If only it could have saved poor Red from beef poisoning at Sirloin A Lot, sadly that feature was still in beta.

    -Matt

    viva Homer!

    --
    --- Need web hosting?
    1. Re:Big Red by slashtivus · · Score: 5, Informative

      My last neighbor (still keep in touch) was a big rig driver. He would park the corporate truck out by our small apartment complex sometimes, and let me have a look from the driver's seat. I was amazed at all of the controls and dials for every little thing: 4 exhaust temp sensors can tell you health of engine or proper gear, axle temps + oil levels, wheel pressures etc etc. This was all recorded and uploaded to corp HQ as well. Little things add up to big money when you run a trucking company, and it is really worth the little extra to purchase the extra sensors and avoid wasted fuel and prevent unneeded repairs when maintenance would do. This was 10 years ago when fuel was cheaper. Old news.

    2. Re:Big Red by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 3, Informative

      In trucker jargon the "hookers" are known as "Lot Lizards", you insensitive clod!

    3. Re:Big Red by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Lane departure is being done all wrong. We need to get the various road authorities to start mixing something like this into the paint that they paint the lines with. Then vehicles could use RFID readers to no only know when they are departing a lane, but they could use this instead of GPS to identify where they are.

    4. Re:Big Red by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't want anything stopping what happened near chicago the past week, a semi loaded with oreos crashed and sent those lovely cookies all over the road, i have like a basket full of em!

    5. Re:Big Red by sporkme · · Score: 2, Funny

      My father was in charge of international maintenance for Celadon trucking for several years, ending something like ten years ago. Certain incidents involving roadway accidents fell under his purview, including bridge entrapment (remotely authorize the release of air pressure from tires), accidents suspected to be caused by equipment failure, and one particular snarl that required his travel to the accident scene:

      This predates graphical GPS navigation systems, but efforts had been made in this direction to facilitate the on time arrival of loads. Someone would have to travel the route in advance, marking significant coordinates and noting instructions to be carried out as they are reached. One note was made, "turn left at the railroad tracks."

      One driver made the judgment that this meant that he should actually steer his rig onto the railroad tracks. He succeeded. Fortunately, a passing motorist called the police, who contacted the rail authorities who stopped the trains. It cost the company significantly in delayed rail freight costs and such, and the driver was found to be heavily influenced by drugs.

    6. Re:Big Red by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 4, Funny

      They solved that years ago with CB radio...

      I'm heading west, and I'm looking for a whore!

    7. Re:Big Red by zippthorne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it didn't crash into a Milk truck, it isn't news.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    8. Re:Big Red by sjbe · · Score: 2, Funny

      The father of a classmate of mine many years ago owned a trucking company and as you might expect he occasionally got calls to deal with accidents as you might expect. One evening he gets a call that one of his trucks was stuck under a bridge that was too short for the truck to fit under. He goes to the scene and sure enough, the driver had rammed the truck nice and tightly underneath even though the bridge was clearly marked as having too little clearance for the truck to make it. When asked the driver reportedly said "I thought if I sped up I could make it."

      !!!

      I'm not sure if any drugs were involved but gross stupidity clearly was a contributing factor.

  3. Am I the only one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who read the title and thought "OH NO, A SEQUEL!?"

  4. Huge costs lead to early adoption by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Big rig trucks are very expensive to operate. Time is money. As a result, big rig operators have always been looking for anything that can help them improve efficiency a performance and this makes them into early adopters.

    Communications (CB radios and trunked radio) have always been associated with truckers.

    Big rigs were also the first to use significant engine management. J1939 (one of first uses of CAN) was originally done for big rigs.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  5. fuel costs still not high enough priority by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Combat rising fuel costs? They aren't serious, yet. Otherwise, we'd be moving everything we could via railroad, not road. We'd see a lot more aerodynamics. It'd be so easy to make a few small aerodynamic changes to the trailers. That's seriously low hanging fruit, and it's been almost entirely ignored. As it is, while many of the tractors aren't too bad, the average truck trailer has all the aerodynamics of a brick. We'd also see lighter trailers with more aluminum and composite carbon fiber in them, more efficient engines, and better tires.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    1. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Squalish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's because since WW2, we've spent a hundred billion dollars a year constructing, expanding, and maintaining the roads, and ten million dollars a year tearing up rails so that people wouldn't trip over them.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
    2. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by winwar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Most of these could be moved to rail which is much more energy efficient."

      Companies care about cost and time. If it were cheaper and faster to ship via rail they would. It isn't, so they don't. Except for large bulky shipments.

      "I agree that you would still need trucks for local and short deliveries, but so much of the industry is long haul or multi-state trucking."

      And you would have the same amount of drivers. Except that you can pay the local ones less.... Trucks are far more convenient than rail lines. That's worth increased cost to many.

      "They have rail cars that you can just pick up the trailer off the rail car and hook it right up to the truck for the first few miles to the rail yard and the last few miles from the rail yard."

      Sure, if you don't want your cargo in a timely manner. I've worked in a warehouse-containers via rail are slow. It's quicker to ship cargo from LA to Seattle via truck.

      In the end, efficiency is only important to companies if it reduces cost.

    3. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by LoRdTAW · · Score: 5, Informative

      We'd see a lot more aerodynamics.

      Aero? Peterbilt 378, Kenworth T2000, International Prostar, Freightliner Century/Colombia/Cascadia, Mack Vision. And more are to follow.

      It'd be so easy to make a few small aerodynamic changes to the trailers. That's seriously low hanging fruit, and it's been almost entirely ignored.

      Aero Trailers are not always feasible in the eyes of the trucking industry for one simple reason: weight. Most tractors today have proper wind deflectors on top to allow to the air to deflect around the trailer reducing drag. Side skirts have been tried since the 70's but did not yield enough of an increase in fuel savings to warrant their cost or added weight.

      We'd also see lighter trailers with more aluminum and composite carbon fiber in them

      Trailers are already as light as possible and are full of composite materials and aluminum, you just haven't bothered to look. Aluminum is popular in flatbed trailers that can be upward of 100% aluminum and many trailers are of a mixed construction of both aluminum and steel. Aluminum frames used to be popular in trucks of the 70's. But after a few years of running on roads that are salted in the winter, everyone learned real fast that aluminum was a poor material for frames. Carbon fiber isn't a material your going to find on a truck as it has no desirable properties other then low weight.

      more efficient engines

      Diesel engines have for years been very efficient. The average today is about 6-6.5 MPG for tractor trailers. Older diesels that were mechanical could also yield similar numbers but were very dirty (but fun and simple to maintain and work on). EPA 2007 and the looming EPA 2010 has created a whole new school of diesel design and many companies are about to or are going to release some real seriously high tech engines. Compacted graphite iron, turbo compounding, ingenious heat management, acoustic tuning, over head cams and integrated engine brakes is whats in the mix. International's MaXXForce, Detroit Diesel's DD15, and Paccar's MX engine are some of the most technologically advanced engines out there. They are ready to be deployed soon here in the USA and will meet EPA 2010 emissions which will make gasoline engine look filthy.

      and better tires.

      Ever hear of super singles? They are wide base tires that replace the dual tires found on both drive and trailer axles. They have less friction than a set of dual tires and can bring about a noticeable and beneficial savings in fuel economy. They are also lighter which allows the truck to carry more fright which increases efficiency. Adoption has been pretty good but safety is a bit of a concern as with duals if one tire blows the other can support the weight of the axle so the truck can be safely stopped. Cost is also an issue and they aren't useful outside of LTL, long haul and bulk haul. Vocational work still demands dual tires for the high weights and abuse involved.

    4. Re:fuel costs still not high enough priority by Kijori · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Aluminum is popular in flatbed trailers that can be upward of 100% aluminum That's a lot of aluminium.

      Now I need to get back to work, I've been spending over 100% of my time on Slashdot.
  6. Re:Fuel Efficiency by fishbowl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No... and it doesn't help the transportation industry one bit that transportation costs are approaching a threshold where locally produced goods can compete.

    For generations, moving goods around has been treated as nothing but a small marginal cost. This means we have been able to take for granted the origin of goods.

    Of course the fact is, margins still allow us to take it for granted, and they still would, even with a doubling of the current prices of fuel. Fuel does not yet dominate the cost of transportation, and the cost of transportation does not yet dominate the the cost of agricultural commodities.

    But, don't listen to me. Listen to the voices that really want you to be angry about fuel prices. Maybe there really is some conspiracy driving up the prices (while staying hidden within the competitive, transparent marketplace where the value is established, and where the prices can only be explained by investor behavior, since the only other factors of supply, demand, and reserves do not explain it.)

    Oh, that's scarier than any boogeyman can possibly be: what if the market really does bear $136/bbl crude, without any nefarious or criminal interference in the market?

    Well, it's the only commodity that has a scoreboard on every corner, and the only one where people honestly expect me to get upset about it, to make it a priority.

    Tell you what: When fuel reaches 1% of my annual budget, I'll give it a line item. When fuel reaches a level that it is a significant marginal cost in delivering goods to retail marketplaces, I'll buy locally produced goods. Local economy will be happy. /me stands by for the screams about cartels and oil company profits.

    If you have experience in commodities or degrees in economics, you might be able to persade me.

    I've been called clueless for my opinions. I do happen to know a thing or two about the transportation business, particularly trucking, particularly in the ag sector.

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  7. This isn't new by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most of this stuff has been on trucks for ten years. Eaton's VORAD anti-collision radar goes back further than that. But now, everybody with more than one rig has some kind of tracking system.

  8. What will the future bring? by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe some day, hundreds of truckloads of shipments will be piloted by one (maybe two) people. Who knows, maybe there will be just one engine for a hundred containers, and it will be smart enough to generate energy very efficiently, regulate it's own speed, and react to hazards. Maybe they will even make special thoroughfares criss-crossing the nation, on which these super-movers of the future will ride on... The future is bright indeed! I just have one question: what might we call them?

  9. Re:Fuel Efficiency by outcast36 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    fuel isn't 1% of your budget? I'm impressed. If you have to fill up your tank once a week, then you're spending at least $40. This is a weekly income of $4K, or over $200K/annually. I consider myself a conservative driver. I hate cars and I hate traffic, but between my wife & I, fuel costs are far above 1% and even approaching 5%.

  10. Re:Fuel Efficiency by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Transportation is already factored into about 24% of the economy. From the manufacture of cars, planes, etc., to the cost of moving people and goods, fuel for police cars and fire trucks, fuel for the construction equipment that paves the roads, removes the snow, delivers mail and packages, runs the trucks that install and maintain your internet access, etc. So, unless you're not paying taxes, not buying anything, not eating, never sending or receiving mail, or surfing the net, you're already paying more than 1% of your income, either directly or indirectly, in diesel and gasoline.

  11. I don't understand. by freenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How can locally produced goods compete with the shipped in versions? Raw materials have to be shipped in, even in agriculture where fertilizer and fuel are real costs. My impression was that goods from China were inexpensive because they had a large supply of very cheap and poorly treated labor. Just about everyone now uses material from there if they bother making anything. What is left of US and Western manufacturing? If you know so much about Ag shipping, can you tell me why so much cheap food at the grocery store now comes from China?

    What competition do you see in the oil market after the merger of Exxon and Mobil? They closed half of their stations, major refineries and fired plenty of people so they could tighten up the market. Their "Project for the New American Century" has been a disaster for the rest of us and may even bite them in the ass when the US economy collapses under the cost of the Iraq war failure, Iran refusing to sell oil in dollars and persistent problems in Afghanistan. Sooner or later our weakened prestige and currency will ruin their string of "best year ever" profits.

    I don't have a fancy degree in Economics nor do I trade commodities but the ruin of the US economy is easy to see. Excuse me while I drive my H2 to pick up another load of Chinese stuff at Walmart.

  12. Trucking technology is extremely sophisticated by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The summary underestimates the technology development in the trucking industry. Since at least the early 70's oil crisis, no effort has been spared to wheedle out ever last cent per lb-mile. The engine controls are exceptionally sophisticated and the scheduling/routing software is similarly complex. This is not a bunch of stereotypical yokels. Most people here would go broke if they tried to do it.

            While we are at it, a lot of people might be surprised how sophisticated trains and train operations are - modern locomotives were the prototypes of Prius' and othe hybrids, complete with regenerative braking.

              Brett

  13. Re:Fuel Efficiency by RexRhino · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some of us live in these places called cities, where we can walk to places, and if that is too far we can take a bus or subway for next to nothing. :)

    I don't know about the guy who posted the original message, but many people in cities don't even own cars. I own a car, but I only use it when I want to move furniture or buy a lot of groceries... my gas expenditure is nowhere near 1%.

    1% is low for the suburbanite / rural folk, but not for the urbanite.

  14. Rig emmissions are very low by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Informative
    if you measure them on a per pound of cargo basis. Way, way better than any car carrying a few pounds of cargo.

    If you look at the emissions associated with the delivery of a new TV, most of it is in the last leg from the store to the buyer's home. Trucking 500 TVs across the state using a big rig produces less emissions per TV than that last ride home.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by amRadioHed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And yet the emissions are still way, way worse than they would be for transport by rail.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    2. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by epseps · · Score: 2, Informative

      Rails are great but they cover a limited area. Some trucking companies integrate rails and road pretty well with trailers just being transported by rail and then picked up by cab at the most convenient location.

      But that requires very precise dispatching and monitoring, so only the biggest companies with the best inventory systems can handle. Hopefully with technology getting cheaper more companies will do this and more geeks will get jobs in the freight industry running those systems.

    3. Re:Rig emmissions are very low by Geezle2 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yep, emissions are much lower for rail even if you are only using diesel power units. If you develop your infrastructure to the point where you can use electric locomotives or EMUs, your emissions drop by another order of magnitude and your emissions end up coming from a single, non-mobile, more easily managed location (the electric power generating station).

      Trucks can only compete with rail for long haul freight services in the US because much of the nation's rail infrastructure was ripped up over the last hundred years. Now that the heady days of cheap gas and diesel are gone for good, America is faced with rebuilding this strategically critical infrastructure from scratch. So much for letting the Free Market prepare you for the future.

  15. GPS by Repton · · Score: 2, Funny

    Will it stop directing them through tiny villages with roads too narrow to cope?

    --
    Repton.
    They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
  16. Truckers invented the Internet! by tomRakewell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Truckers may not be able to pronounce "Illinois" real well, but they did adopt CB Radios back in the 1970s. That was the closest thing to the Internet until... the Internet.

    In case your memory is short: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaammaHevT0

  17. This really isn't that new... by jcwren · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back in '91, IBM won a contract from J.B. Hunt to develop a satellite based system for trucks. It used a Qualcomm satellite system, a 486SX based tablet computer (I designed the keyboard controller, power management processor and did a lot of the BIOS work on it), and a docking station.

    The tablet ran a program designed by a sub-contractor that allowed the trucker to do things like checklists, fuel management, figure his trip earnings, report emergencies, etc.

    One of J.B. Hunts driving (heh) reasons was that after a driver delivered his load, he might spend 30 minutes thumbing the same quarter into a payphone trying to call the dispatcher. With this system, he could send a communique that he was done, and the system would turn around with new orders in less than 2 minutes.

    One of the other neat things was the Qualcomm dish could do triangulation that was accurate to a few hundred yards. At least twice I know of, rigs were stolen and recovered because of the satellite tracking.

    Now the little antenna packages are ubiquitous on trucks. Look behind the air dam on the roof, or the back of the cab, and you'll see a white dome that's about 12" in diameter, and 10" tall. Odds are that's a Qualcomm satellite link.

    The tablet system was pretty neat, too. It was an extremely dense PCB at the time, 16 layers. It supported the original Sundisk (before they became Sandisk) 2.5MB flash drives, touch screen, used Peltier devices to allow operation in extreme temperatures, had RS-232, RS-422, infrared, keyboard & mouse port, expansion connectors, LCD controller, all that stuff, in an aluminum frame with this heavy duty rubber covering over it.

    The holster interfaced to the trucks wiring harness and could pick off speed (we were pre-GPS), RPM, voltage, stuff like that. Our group didn't handle the holster, so I only know vague details about it, but I do know that while they were considered some of the vehicle data busses for the future, they interfaced the old-fashioned way.

    Most of the drivers were moderately receptive to the system, since it sped up their turn-around time, which meant more money. However, since it could tattle on exceeding maximum allowed drive time, over-revving, and of course speeding, there were some drivers that had real problems with it.

    Incidentally, at that point in time, J.B. Hunt was a VERY large customer of IBM main frames. For the previous 7 years, they upgraded every year to IBMs newest mainframe offerings. Their big data center was somewhere in the Mid-west, I believe. With their route planning, logistics management, service records system, dispatch system and everything else, they burned a lot of CPU cycles.

    Somewhere in my basement, I have one of the docking holsters and the tablet computer, and as of about a year ago, it powered up and booted into DOS.

    J.B. Hunt and IBM learned an important lesson from this, too: Don't let the driver be able to see the tablet. Before they started positioning them where the driver couldn't read it while in motion, at least one accident occurred because of fixation.

    While new technologies have brought more to the table, what the system offered 17 years ago isn't all that drastically different. Satellite is still the best choice, since cell phone coverage is not 100% pervasive.

    The project name was Road Rider. Naturally, we called it Road Kill internally :)

  18. Freight prices have not gone up in years by tomRakewell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been getting full semis delivered to me from Ohio to Minnesota for exactly $1050. This price has not changed in the past 4 years.

    Just the other day, I had a competing trucking company come in and quote out the job. Their quote was... $1050.

    The price of diesel fuel has quadrupled in this time.

    I can not believe that technology is making the difference here. I think truckers are getting screwed.

    I know there were some threats of a trucking strike a month or two ago that came to nothing. I would not be surprised to see this happen, and if it did, the country would be brought to its knees.

    1. Re:Freight prices have not gone up in years by spauldo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fuel is the largest expense in trucking. Wages is #2, and tires are #3. After that, I don't know for sure, but my guess would be maintenance and truck purchases.

      Wages used to be the #1 expense. Diesel also used to be $1.30 a gallon three or four years ago.

      The grandparent poster is right - it's all a bidding game, and if you try to raise your rates, someone else will do it cheaper. Rates will increase, but probably not until a lot of the little guys are out of business. I know my company is struggling.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
  19. Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's because rail travel is the most energy-efficient we have, with respect to transporting massive amounts of materials across land. Such a comeback would require double-tracks between all pairs of destinations. And regular reliable schedules, heh.

    1. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Tanktalus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Transporting 250lbs of flesh and 50lbs of luggage doesn't really show a train's ability to pull cargo cheaply since that 300lbs of cargo needs to be in a multi-ton box car with many niceties (food, water, sleeping area, toilet, possibly shower).

      Try comparing costs of carrying 100s of tons of cargo (such as grain, oil, furniture, vehicles) where the overhead of the train is a smaller percentage.

      Try even comparing the cost to the environment: both the air (burned fuel) and, for comparing with "Big Rigs" (to stay loosely on topic) the damage caused to the roadways (vs damage caused to railways) for the same load.

      I've been hoping for more railways for years...

    2. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by houghi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with trains is time to deliver. This is often much longer then when you do it by road. At least in Europe.
      You have both the loading and unloading still to do.

      Also trains are very interesting when you have a large load going from place A to place B. However many times you only have one or a few containers going from place A to place B. So you wll need to wait till others are going from A to B as well, because the traibn is not going to drive just for you.

      As you still need road transport from office till A and from B till the other place, the time you loose in having to be there, waiting till the whole train is loaded, waiting till the train is unloaded, waiting some more for papers, is probable too great and the road is still cheaper.

      I have seen times of a week, where via the raod is would be one day.

      We always say time is money and a week is thus a lot of money.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by notgm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      i was under the impression that the real problem in the u.s. is that there are laws making it difficult/impossible for railroad companies to own semi-trucks, put into place to help a fledgling trucking industry at some point, and never rescinded.

      i've been searching for something to back up this theory - i heard it several years ago, but cannot find anything concrete.

    4. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You need to learn to ballance. Why do people think that there will be one silver bullet that will fix everything.
      They do use the rail system. Don't you see trains with rows and rows of Semi-trailers on the back? Then they take them and put them on trucks to go to their particular location.

      How ever sometimes people need it there faster then the trains can handle (Being trains are only effecent in delivering bulk products) dilivering small amounts like one tractor full would be much cheaper and quicker and efficent by using a truck vs. Loading it on a train waiting for the train to load and have it roll 50 miles to the next stop to be unloaded, then hoping at that spot there will be something to replace the empty spots.

      If you take any major highways chances are you will see a semi-truck with 2 trailers hooked up. then they break them off to smaller ones when they get into the city areas.

      Trains and Freighters are only part of the equasion. Some companies even go smaller then the trucks after they empty the truck they load up vans or smaller trucks to deliver it to each location.

      The Railroads never left. Commuter Rails are dieing not comerical.

      As well we have a polital problem with rails is that noone wants them in their back yard or comunity if they are already there they sertonly dont want them expanded so there is more noise.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by TRS80NT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The full-load scenario is also a factor in trucking though.
      A few years ago I moved from Calif. to Wisc. After my stuff was loaded onto the van (about a fourth of the space) the driver said "See you in a week." I wondered why. I was planning on driving the same distance in a couple days. When he said "...maybe more" I asked why. "I can't afford to make the trip without a full load". So as I was hitting the road he was holed up with his cell phone, waiting to hear from the moving company for another east-bound load.


      --
      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.
    6. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by The+Snowman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I live a few miles from the Ford and Chevy plants here in Cleveland. They both have multiple tracks going directly into each factory, pumping out fully loaded trains full of parts, probably driving off to other plants for assembly or further production. I would hazard a guess that they have no problem with scheduling the logistics, and I bet it is far cheaper and more efficient than trucking it out there.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    7. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Railroads never left.

      The rails DID leave, because funding for rails was cut in favor of spending it on the federal highway system as a system of corporate welfare designed to benefit the auto companies. Don't let history get in the way of a good argument, though.

      Obviously we still have rail, for purposes that cannot reasonably be served by truck, like feeding major concrete plants raw material or, ironically, getting materials into and cars out of automobile manufacturing plants. Oh, the humanity.

      As well we have a polital problem with rails is that noone wants them in their back yard or comunity

      And you have a spelling problem. Do yourself a favor and switch to Firefox.

      PRECISELY the same problem exists with freeways.

      The simple truth is that rail can be efficient. If we hadn't dismantled the rail network to the extent that we did - which is to say, we made it less profitable in a number of situations by eliminating subsidies, while spending horrific amounts of money on the interstate highway system. On top of that, the increased truck traffic means that small roads never designed to carry trucks have tons of freight on them (literally) and break down faster. You can especially see this happen in hilly/mountainous states, like California.

      Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. How many times do you typically turn around to check if you turned the oven off?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by rossifer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      However many times you only have one or a few containers going from place A to place B. So you wll need to wait till others are going from A to B as well, because the traibn is not going to drive just for you.
      I used to work at a lumberyard in Dayton, Ohio that had a rail spur for deliveries of building supplies. The train did stop just for them. It would stop, cut out the two or three cars for them, then continue on. They paid for the spur to be installed, leased some rail equipment (a yard dog to maneuver the cars around) and also paid fees for the cars that were idle on the spur.

      It was a money-making investment for them. It was also at least as fast as getting the supplies via truck. They used the same forklifts to move the supplies on and off the rail cars as they did for the trucks.

      The problem with rail is that trucking is heavily subsidized by the interstate highway. Trucking companies get much more value from the highways than they pay in taxes and fees. So much more value that the railways, which have to maintain their own "roads", can only compete on the largest, bulkiest cargoes.
    9. Re:Time for Railroads to make a comeback by Calinous · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Rail transport was big in my country in the past - the big manufacturing companies had rail tracks inside their yards.
            However, lacking this, railway transport means road transport to the train station, load transfer to boxcars, railway transport (which might take a while, as passenger trains have priority over cargo), then load transfer to trucks at the destination, and finally transport to destination.

            As long as your transport can take a long way on the road, and you can send a train or at least several boxcars, using trains is a good idea. On long distances, trains might get faster than trucks (trains can go all day long, changing engineers, but truck drivers must sleep).

  20. Who says truckies are stupid? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once everyone finds out that the Semi Trucks drive themselves...

    Most people who have only ever driven cars fail to appreciate that driving heavy trucks is actually quite a demanding job, and not one for dummies. Those rigs are expensive, and no factor that saves fuel or wear and tear can be neglected. It may be popular to label truckies as ignorant yokels, but it is a fact that they need to be quite technically astute. For instance, tyre wear alone is a huge factor when you consider the cost of replacing over 40 tyres on a multi-combination rig.

    As an aside, this reminds me of one time back in my trucking days, some idiot tried to steal my rig. He might have thought he was a shit-hot car driver, but couldn't even muster the coordination required to get the crash box into gear. He was still struggling with it when the police arrived... :-)

    1. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      Woooosh...

      Obviously you are not a fan of The Simpsons.

    2. Re:Who says truckies are stupid? by couchslug · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Most people who have only ever driven cars fail to appreciate that driving heavy trucks is actually quite a demanding job, and not one for dummies."

      Professional truckers are quite capable and skilled people, but many "truckers" aren't professional.

      I don't assume that just because someone passed a quickie driving course and got a license that they have a clue. (Lurk on a few towing forums if you want to see how much business "truckers" generate for towmen recovering the results of their mistakes!).

      Of course, since your post refers to "tyres" you may be in a country with stricter standards and enforcement than the US. :)

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  21. Re:Fuel Efficiency by himurabattousai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    fuel isn't 1% of your budget? I'm impressed. If you have to fill up your tank once a week, then you're spending at least $40. This is a weekly income of $4K, or over $200K/annually.

    I consider myself a conservative driver. I hate cars and I hate traffic, but between my wife & I, fuel costs are far above 1% and even approaching 5%. I only wish I had the money to where less than one percent was for gas. In my case, it's almost ten percent, and that's with a car that gets better than 30 mpg city (a '96 Saturn--1.9L I-4 w/5 a speed gearbox). Granted, I don't make much money, but unless you get obscene gas mileage, you'd have to pull down six digits to spend less than one percent of that on gas.

    I'd guess that the vast majority of households are at least 5 percent of income to fuel. Figure that based on average yearly fuel costs on the following minimums: two fill-ups per month at 50 dollars (12 gallons E to F) to 70 dollars a visit (17 gallons E to F), plus an extra two visits because there are four weeks extra spread over twelve months, for a yearly total of 1300 to 1800 dollars at current prices. That's just for one typical (Accord, Camry, etc) car, and before taxes are taken out. If taxes suck away a third of your income before you see it, then that almost doubles your percentage of income for fuel.

    Thank the piss-poor US dollar, inflation, needless war in Iraq, greedy oil execs, or whatever else suits your fancy. The 1920's will look like a cakewalk compared to what awaits us on our current course, and those of us who still have money will wish they could only spend a handful of percent of it on gas.
    --
    "osake no hou ga, biiru yori ii" to omotteiru.
  22. Re:Fuel Efficiency by imboboage0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Disregarding everything else you said (I just don't feel like typing =] )...

    When fuel reaches 1% of my annual budget, I'll give it a line item.

    I just graduated from high school yesterday. I don't exactly make bank, but it's not minimum wage by a longshot. However, just in fuel to get to school, work, and home, i was spending up to 40% of my income. Even if I were just going to work, it would be nearly 30% of my income.

    I think the price of fuel hits harder for those in the lower classes, but I'm not an expert so take it with a grain of salt.

    --
    Honesty may be the best policy, but by process of elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.
  23. Re:Train by bjackson1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    A train? Welcome to the 19th century. James Watt will be proud. Wooosh!
  24. Re:Emmisions. by LoRdTAW · · Score: 4, Informative

    They have been emissions laws in place for Diesel engines for a long time already. The EPA 2007 emissions were a huge step forward from the EPA 2002 emissions in using a diesel particulate filter DPF to filter out the soot and aggressive exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to reduce NOx emissions.

    My beef with the EPA and the government is how they handled the enforcement of the 2007 emissions law. In Europe they have the Euro emissions standard for diesel engines and they are currently at Euro 5. But that does not mean that truck makers must only offer Euro 5 engines to its customers. See the EU was smart and rather then force everyone to switch they said you can still buy Euro 4 and 3 engines but you pay higher registration fees and I believe even higher road usage taxes (can anyone clarify?) for the Euro 3 and 4 engines.

    In the USA the EPA forced all the engine makers and truck makers to only offer 2007 emissions rated engines in all trucks made after October 2007. Now the 2007 rated engines add another six to eight thousand dollars to a truck so guess what happened? Thats right, in 2006 trucking companies scrambled to purchase pre-2007 trucks not only because they were cheaper but the reliability of 2007 engines was unknown and untrusted. So now you have plenty of 2006 sales but sales were dead in 2007 threatening truck makers here in the states. If the EPA did what the EU did they would have eased the pain in transitioning and we would have more cleaner trucks on the road.

    Now just wait till EPA 2010 when we will most likely combine the 2007 DPF and EGR systems with a selective catalytic reduction (SCR) system. Also Europe will combine a DPF system with their Euro 5 SCR/EGR system for Euro 6 emissions. At that point diesel engines will be cleaner than gasoline engines.

  25. Very true by epseps · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to be a truck driver before I got into Unix Administration (long story but backing up is now a lot safer). When I left the profession in 1999 the truck stops were just putting rj11 jacks for dial up in the trucker section of the restaurants...Not exactly fast but computers had not hit the real of being personal communication yet....which truckers adopt pretty fast. In 1995 I used to feel like a big shot for walking around with a cell phone when I was among non-truckers but truck drivers already had them and owner-operators began to depend upon them immediatly.

    But back then fuel was relatively cheap and the only modifications we had on our engines were a governor that restricted top speed (mine was annoyingly set at 68). Now I hardly recognise the cab of a modern truck ...I had gauges that used dials and not a single LCD was present and I relied soley on mirror placement and use to avoid accidents.

    Oh, and laminated maps. That was the top technology for finding my way around Houston.

  26. Re:I'm a believer in the railroads. by spauldo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Regarding the article you linked to: this is extremely rare. You can't make any money operating equipment like that, except for certain short haul dedicated stuff like construction haulers. Trucks require constant maintenance or they break down in extremely expensive ways.

    Regrooved tires are dangerous in general, and there's no benefit to using them. It costs a lot more to have a tire truck come out than to just buy a retread (not regroove) tire and have it done at a shop. You can't use retreads on the steering axle, and many trucking companies don't use them on the drive axles. Trailers are a different thing - you can go cheap on trailer tires because if one blows out, you can still go down the road for a bit. The other seven are adequate for getting you to the nearest tire shop.

    Now as far as the "dirty and unsafe" part - that doesn't describe the modern trucking industry. Most trucks on the road are less than five years old, with hardly any older than ten. Emissions have been lowered dramatically compared to the old days, and the new fuels are almost sulphur-free. The black stuff you see coming from the stacks? That's soot - unburned carbon. It's not particularly dangerous, although it can contribute to smog. You only see that when the engine is doing something dramatic, like changing gears or taking off. Most of the time a truck is in motion, the engine is working as efficiently as possible and minimizing unburned fuels.

    Most trucks are moving towards having small "lawnmower" engines called APUs (axillary power units) that power the heat/AC system and provide electricity when the truck would normally be idling. I don't have one, but hopefully I will when the lease runs out on my truck. (You have to idle or have one of these APUs in inclement weather - a trucker needs to be fully rested to drive, and that's hard when you're in a truck in the middle of the desert during the summer with no A/C. Not that California cares.)

    Drivers have strict rules they have to follow regarding hours of service and inspections, and while every driver breaks the rules from time to time, you develop a sense of when you need to get off the road. A wreck can destroy your career, and equipment failure can delay your load (and your paycheck). DOT inspects trucks randomly, and they're pretty thorough. Safety is a huge concern for truckers as well as trucking companies, since accidents translate to lost money. It's not worth pushing your drivers past the rules, since DOT can audit you at any time and any accident can turn into a million dollar lawsuit.

    Bear in mind this article is talking about the port of Los Angeles, which just recently banned owner-operators and trucks more than a few years old. California is a very truck-unfriendly state in general and I wouldn't be surprised if this article you pointed out was just propaganda pointing out the worst case.

    --
    Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
  27. Truckers not High Tech??? by hyperz69 · · Score: 2, Informative

    A small while ago I had an occasion where a friend was giving me a lift *don't worry he got the OK from his company first* as I thought it would be a fun experience to go on a run. I was expecting some run down, greasy, loud U-haul type experience. I was blown away by his Modern Machine. It was Swankier the my damn apartment.

    He had a Built in computer with LCD in the sleeper.
    High Speed Internet
    A HIdeaway full shower.
    A mini drink fridge.
    A GPS System
    Hands Free Cell hooked up to his stereo
    2 Reverse Cameras
    20 Inch DVD Entertainment system with Xbox 360
    ect... ect...

    This doesn't even include the major Job enhancing features he pointed out. They have some sort of wireless system where Weigh Stations are not even needed anymore. His dash has a little blinking light to let him know he can drive right past. The downside was some sort of "Tattler" that over the internet was sending all sorts of info to his company. It had a little screen that showed when he had to stop. He hated the damn thing. It even did all his logging for him, but somehow he said it was a bad thing.

  28. Not everyone thinks this is a good idea by Whuffo · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As more and more high-tech monitoring equipment gets loaded into "big rigs" the drivers get more and more unhappy. All arguments about efficiency and protecting against hijacking aside, how would you like it if your employer was monitoring every movement, every moment, your position at any time - all day, every day. Even things like missing a gear change; imagine getting a message later asking you why you let your RPM exceed corporate limits.

    I worked for a large (LARGE) national trucking corporation for seven years in their IT department. Occasionally, I'd go to the terminals to talk with dispatchers / drivers to see how IT could make their jobs easier or faster. What I heard a lot about was how much they hated the invisible boss watching over their shoulder, monitoring every little detail of their workday and questioning them about anything that wasn't according to the way the corporation wanted it to be. "Why did you stop at the rest area off of 101 for 15 minutes at 12:33 PM on August 3?" "I needed to take a leak" "It shouldn't have taken you 15 minutes to take a leak" - and you can imagine where it goes from there.

    Does all this monitoring and control increase efficiency and reduce costs? That's open to debate; while it may cut out some unscheduled downtime, it also cuts out some unscheduled overtime and / or supra-legal speeds. Net effect at the bottom line? Who knows, but it's mighty close to a wash. Where the real difference is - the drivers attitude about their job. They used to be "captain of their ship", piloting their load of valuable cargo to its destination - using the routes and methods that their years of experience had shown to be best. Now they're just cogs in the machine; follow the route you're given, operate the tractor according to corporate policy - and we're going to monitor you carefully to make sure you do - and punish you for every transgression. How can you take pride in your job under those conditions? Very dehumanizing and it just gets worse year after year. Each year the corporate overlords refine their expectations of what it takes to operate a truck at maximum efficiency.

    Ultimately, what the corporation is thinking about is how much they pay those drivers - and how they could reduce that expense. Refining the task of "drive a truck" to the point where it's just a matter of following instructions is the first step. Once they've achieved that, there'll be no more need for those highly experienced drivers - someone with a new commercial license could do the same job at about one third the salary. This would cut those labor expenses and allow the corporation to post increased profits.

    But how would you feel about no longer being able to assume that those big trucks are being driven by professional drivers. How would you feel to know that 80,000 pounds of freight in the lane next to you is being driven by a dropout that's talking on his cell phone?

    This isn't idle speculation - this is the way things have been going for quite a few years now. All that's changed is the price of fuel; as that climbs, the transportation companies are faced with a hard choice - cut expenses to compensate or raise their rates. Raising the rates enough to cover the new improved cost of fuel would chase away a substantial number of customers so the pressure is on to cut labor expenses. After numerous reorganizations and cuts it's now the drivers turn on the hot seat. Next time you see one on the road, give him a smile and a wave. Those guys work long hours for not a lot of money and do all they can to keep everyone around them on the roads safe. Everything you buy - EVERYTHING - got to you in the back of a big rig. Think about the people who have dedicated their lives to making sure your store has an adequate supply of canned beer and what's being done to them in the name of "increased efficiency" and tip your hat; these guys deserve your gratitude.

  29. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by Omestes · · Score: 5, Informative

    My father is a life long trucker, and when I was younger I went with him on several trips, learning the business.

    Most trucking companies with their own trucks have regulators in them with limit the speed to California highway spec for semis(I think 55). Swift is the biggest one I can think of that does this. These companies generally charge per-hour or trip, and not per hour, which also minimizes speed. They also have pretty good safety enforcement, and trip monitoring. The ones to worry about are the independent contractors. They are paid per mile, or make money based on the speed of their delivery, thus have an incentive to speed, and be reckless. They also have far less safety and maintenance requirements than corporate drivers.

    The margins in modern trucking are pretty damn slim, so sometimes people cut corners.

    If you want to be afraid, just wait until the foreign trucking provisions of NAFTA come through, and we're flooded with Mexican truckers, driving Mexican trucks, completely immune to American safety, and EPA standards, much less CDL standards.

    Most of my "bad trucker" experiences were due to morons in cars acting recklessly. People don't realize that trucks have a MASSIVE stopping distance, miles of blindspots, and the empty trailers REALLY suck. I see so many people change lanes 10ft in front of trucks going 75mph, thinking it is safe. Sometimes I hope that something terrible happens, just so I can feel good about Darwin.

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  30. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Omestes · · Score: 5, Informative

    Your thinking of those vertical, high population density cities on the east coast right?

    My city is 550 square miles, not counting the suburbs (around 9000 square miles, including the full metropolitan area), and has around 2000 people per square mile. Compare to New York city, with 300 or so square miles, with TWICE the population (27,282 per square mile, more and an order of magnitude larger).

    Most cities in the west are huge sprawling behemoths. Even with public transportation, it still would add around an hour to the average commute, or more. Sadly, Phoenix doesn't even really have that. Our bus service is spotty, infrequent, and unreliable, and barely covers most of the central part of the city, much less the outskirts.

    We also have the same problems as other cities, the closer to the city center (thus jobs) you are, you either have to cope with high prices, or nasty ghetto. The only middle-class compromise is to move further and further out, thus increasing trip times, and eliminated public transit as a viable, and timely option. Statistically, only 3% of people in Pheonix use public transit to commute, while 72% drive their own cars to work.

    There is much more to the US than the east coast.

    --
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  31. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by aproposofwhat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to be afraid, just wait until the foreign trucking provisions of NAFTA come through, and we're flooded with Mexican truckers, driving Mexican trucks, completely immune to American safety, and EPA standards, much less CDL standards.

    Let me second that from a UK perspective.

    Since the inclusion of the former Eastern European states into the EU, we have seen a huge rise in traffic accidents caused by foreign drivers, especially Eastern Europeans with badly maintained rigs.

    Disclaimer - I'm not a trucker, but I regularly do about 40,000 miles a year on the roads, and have never had an accident while moving (been rear-ended twice, but hey, what can you do?).

    --
    One swallow does not a fellatrix make
  32. Re:Oblig by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ayn Rand hasn't been hoping for anything for quite a while.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  33. Summary Behind the Times by ShakaUVM · · Score: 3, Informative

    Slashdot is even further behind the times than that. Well, the submitter, but still.

    Before Qualcomm made it big with CDMA, their first major product was a satellite based truck tracking/logistics systems (called OMNITrack). It came out, oh, in 1985 or thereabouts.

    Amazing that the summary said we're just now seeing high tech stuff appear in the world of trucking... pfft.

    Of course, I only knew about that since I went to college at UC San Diego, and Qualcomm was the local high tech company that hired a huge number of our engineering graduates.

  34. Incorrect and impractical by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Even assuming the correct definition of order of magnitude (5th root of 100, not 10) you are not correct. Diesel-electric drives can achieve nearly 30% thermal efficiency at constant speed. Electric drive may start with a turbine system running as high as 45% thermal efficiency, but then losses in conversion, distribution and re-conversion can reduce that below 30%, even with regenerative braking. There are many benefits to electric drive - including the ability to run in tunnels and dense urban areas, easier monitoring and control, and reduced maintenance costs - but unless you live in France, Finland or Japan, with a high reliance on nuclear power, the emissions will not be reduced as much as you think.

    Much as I like trains in principle, it has to be said that trucks are not that bad especially where they can run at constant speed and be Diesel fueled. Problems come when they have to mix with other traffic, and that was the strategic error- not providing dedicated truck lanes and separating them from other traffic. One factor driving up SUV/light truck use, in Europe as well as the US is surely fear of heavy trucks.

    However, in many countries exactly the same mistake was made with rail - the traffic pattern meant that passenger trains had to be built to the same shunting capability as freight trains, making passenger trains unnecessarily heavy and lacking in efficiency.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  35. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Torvaun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please, allow me to translate his comment from jerk to English.

    Good for you, to be able to manage 1%. Unfortunately, for most Americans, it's closer to 10%, if not higher, and even if we can cut out all extraneous driving, going to work is getting less and less profitable due to the increased costs of going. I respectfully disagree with your position that our sharply rising fuel costs are not going to increase the costs of transported goods, but even if that is the case, the supply of money people have to buy said goods is going down. This -is- a problem, and it's a problem that's going to affect just about everyone.

    --
    I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
  36. Re:Fuel Efficiency by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your city must be in Europe, possibly eastern Europe. In most US mass transit systems, fares are at least a dollar each way. Ten bucks a week is 1% of a $52,000 annual gross income, which is certainly in the middle-class ballpark, though on the low side for a technology professional.

    I personally live in a dense east-coast US metropolis that happens to have the most expensive mass transit in the US, and found a good job that happens to be in the burbs. I can spend almost ten bucks a *day* if I commute by subway. It does keep the *gas* expenditures down to do that, so I guess I can compete with all the other urbanites on that score.

    Exercise for the reader: Name that metropolis!

    --
    2*3*3*3*3*11*251
  37. Re:inefficiency of driving too fast by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apparently, you don't know any truckers, have never been a trucker, or been in a truck.

    The speed limit is fine. It is four-wheelers like you who get in the safety margin truckers leave that are the problem.

    A good example happened in LA. A trucker was sited for following too close. He fought the ticket, and his defense was that it was impossible to not follow too close because any space he left in front of his truck was immediately filled by a car. He took the judge for a ride and showed him. The case was dismissed because within 5 minutes they were at a complete stop while the driver tried to comply with the law.

    Oh, and about truckers and speeding, if you want to slow them down, change the law so they are not paid by the mile. The faster one drives, the more one makes.

    I should I know. I drove a semi for Warner for a year.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.