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US Plots "Pirate Bay Killer" Trade Agreement

An anonymous reader sends word that Wikileaks has revealed that the United States is plotting a 'Pirate Bay killing' multi-lateral trade agreement, called 'ACTA,' with the EU, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Switzerland and New Zealand. "The proposal includes clauses designed to criminalize the non-profit facilitation of copyrighted information exchange on the Internet, which would also affect transparency sites such as Wikileaks. The Wikileaks document details provisions that would impose strict enforcement of intellectual property rights related to Internet activity and trade in information-based goods. If adopted, the treaty would impose a strong, top-down enforcement regime imposing new cooperation requirements upon Internet service providers, including perfunctory disclosure of customer information, as well as measures restricting the use of online privacy tools."

28 of 529 comments (clear)

  1. Can't put that genie back into the bottle by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Too late. Pass all the laws you like, crack down with all the jackbooted thuggery you can muster. Suspend habeas corpus, declare the 4th amendment null and void, force the royal family to submit to regular body cavity searches, install a camera on every corner, give police orders to use deadly force against downloaders...none of it will make any difference. You can't turn back the clock.

    Remember when the RIAA shut down Napster and declared victory over the music downloaders? Remember when they started their pathetic little lawsuit harassment campaign? Tell me, is there a single person here who has trouble downloading a pirated song today? Is there anyone here who couldn't start up Limewire right this minute and find a copy of virtually any song they could want? For all their heavy-handedness, they didn't even make a DENT.

    Times have changed. No law is going to change that. They're just embarrassing themselves trying.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by jeiler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can't turn back the clock.

      True--but you can hurt a lot of people trying to do so.

      It seems to me that that's what the MPAA, RIAA, and other associated organizations are trying to do. They can't stop downloading en mass ... but if they can hurt enough individuals, maybe other individuals will be to scared to continue to download.

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    2. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by xpuppykickerx · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Normally the people who upload/post leaks aren't afraid of a little lawsuit action. It's the jerk-offs that don't seed after they've downloaded files that fear the RIAA. Let them be gone I say.

    3. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Times have changed. No law is going to change that. They're just embarrassing themselves trying. Except that, like in the "war on drugs" they can ruin thousands upon thousands of lives while they do.

      This is serious, even if you're sure that in the end they will fail. You could be one of the victims steamed over on their way to embarrassment.
      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    4. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by bertilow · · Score: 5, Insightful
      elrous0 wrote:

      is there a single person here who has trouble downloading a pirated song today?

      Trouble finding songs I want to download? Absolutely. There are hundres of songs that I'd like to download but can't find anywhere. The torrent sites have a very thin and boring choice of music. Only the most popular stuff is easy to find.
    5. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by jeiler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's the jerk-offs that don't seed after they've downloaded files that fear the RIAA. Let them be gone I say.

      I would guess that a lot of the folks who don't seed wouldn't seed even if doing so was legal. Those who don't seed because they are afraid of the **AA are not "jerk-offs"--they're victims of bullying, even if they're only being "bullied" by proxy.

      I have no sympathy for the folks who take and take but never give back--but I have a lot of sympathy for the victims of bullying.

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    6. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by ozamosi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, it was legal to download here (in Sweden) up until... I think it was July 1, 2005, as long as you didn't upload.

      The music industry around here are talking about that they want to start an experiment with voluntary broadband-tax, starting this autumn, which will allow you to, for a small fee, download all the music you want from Pirate Bay or wherever. Uploading will still be illegal.

      You seem to be assuming the rest of the world uses US laws. Stop it.

    7. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, you can't. See if I download stuff it costs me NOTHING. If government(s) try to police the internet, it will cost them resources. If they try to take me and everyone like me to court, it will cost them resources. If they tie up enough resources persecuting "downloaders" and letting people get away with violent crime, or let their roads collapse, etc, eventually it will be a big political nightmare.

      You realize that when you say it will cost "them" resources you really ought to be saying that it will cost us resources. Where do you think the Government gets it's funding from? I don't particularly relish the thought of my tax dollars being used for these purposes, how about you?

      How many thousands of dollars/years in jail because s/he downloaded one movie?

      How many thousands of dollars/years in jail because s/he got caught with marijuana?

      But most people know they'll never get caught.

      Indeed. And that fact hasn't deterred the Government from the 'War on Drugs' either. Maybe this will be different -- I'd guess that there are more downloaders out there than pot smokers -- but I'm not nearly that optimistic.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by ParanoiaBOTS · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ... but if they can hurt enough individuals, maybe other individuals will be to scared to continue to download.

      Its scary to me how close this tactic is to the ideal of terrorism
    9. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It seems to me that that's what the MPAA, RIAA, and other associated organizations are trying to do. They can't stop downloading en mass ... but if they can hurt enough individuals, maybe other individuals will be to scared to continue to download.

      They're working on the SCO principle - sue your customers. Anyone who gets sued by the RIAA and a lot of their friends and other people who know them will simply stop buying RIAA product when that happens. They're going to sue themselves into complete irrelevance. It doesn't look quite the same as the SCO thing, because unlike SCO, they have a significant number of customers :)

      Obviously the scare tactics aren't working. Why not? Because we're all living in fear all the time anyway. There's so many bullshit laws that you can't really live your life without breaking a few and we all do things that could get us in trouble now and then. Sorry, but I don't really know anyone's grandparents who don't have some copied movies, for example (they developed a taste for "free movies" in the VHS days - they might not be able to set a clock but they can press record) and I remember listening to a Metallica interview where they were talking about driving around listening to copied audiocassettes. So if you already live in fear of persecution, what's a little more? They sue, you can't pay, you declare bankruptcy, so what?

      Most people out there don't really have anything to take away. Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by jeiler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not "internet bullying"--bullying by lawsuit.

      Say you have (just as an example) 500 people doing something legally questionable that you don't want them doing. Let's also say that you can't sue all of them in a single case--each case should be taken care of individually. You could sue them all, one by one, but that would cost you a lot of money for filing fees, lawyers, court costs, and the like, and odds are you wouldn't get paid the full amount of the judgment.

      Or you could sue two or three of them in high-profile, well-publicized cases. You may get some money from the individuals you sue, or you may not--but in the big picture, the balance of the 500 people are now aware that you could come after them with a lawsuit.

      Defending yourself in a lawsuit is risky, expensive, and stressful. Even if you are completely and totally innocent, you still have to go to court, you still should hire a lawyer, and you still have to pay for your legal filings. Even then, if you've done nothing wrong, there is a possibility that the judge or jury will be persuaded by a slick-talking lawyer that you were in the wrong and must pay damages. That's going to make a lot of people nervous--even if they've not actually done something wrong.

      That's bullying. When combined with the obscenely excessive claims for damage (as both the MPAA and the RIAA have made), the questionable and possibly illegal investigatory techniques performed by MediaSentry, and the utter arrogance of the plaintifs in these cases, the behavior of those (and similar) organizations is reprehensible.

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    11. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have no sympathy for the folks who take and take but never give back--but I have a lot of sympathy for the victims of bullying.

      No one is free while others are oppressed.

      Taking but not giving back is a common result of bullying in any environment. And we learn bullying in school; it is ignored by the school administrators as part of the "way things are". Or, it is even encouraged - especially in the mentality expressed in sports programs.

      Our entire system is designed to teach people to be unfair to one another.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, it's OK to download a file illegally, but not to have other download it from you illegally?

      If you think that something is wrong because it's illegal, then you cannot make a rational contribution to this discussion.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "You seem to be assuming the rest of the world uses US laws. Stop it."

      Unfortunately, this trade agreement....will pretty much do just that, it will unify laws to what the US, and the other top IP countries want.

      We may see pressure that Sweden and other countries may not be able to resist. I was kinda shocked at how the Swiss banking industry had succumed somewhat in their privacy issues, but, it appears they have bent somewhat due to pressure from the US, and EU....so, it shows that nothing is safe. If you don't want this change..make sure and be very vocal in your own country!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    14. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by bberens · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think it would be funny if it really worked that way. Okay Mr. RIAA, I 'stole' one copy of Metallica's album. Here's 10k copies in return. You owe me $5 million. Thanks, and come again any time!

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    15. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by DataBroker · · Score: 5, Funny

      You seem to be assuming the rest of the world uses US laws. Stop it.
      Don't piss off Amerika or we'll bring liberty to your country too!
    16. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The post and thread here appear to be very US-centric -- they assume that any trade agreement that the US decides to offer to the world will be immediately accepted by other sovereign states.

      The proposed bill tramples the constitutions and bills of rights held by a number of the proposed signatories.

      Think for a moment: not only would the treaty be illegal in, for example, Canada, but can you imagine the government touching this treaty with a 10' pole? After NAFTA? With a minority government? With the public and media attention currently on the unfair and heavy-handed tactics being used to pressure Canada into adopting US copyright laws right now?

      Now try applying this to all the other proposed signatories who have fewer ties with the US. I truely doubt this treaty will ever survive the proposal stage.

      Of course, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be protested against; most likely the US will try to slip these conditions into some unrelated treaty amendment in the not-too-distant future.

    17. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From Wikipedia:

      "Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants. "

      1. The RIAA and MPAA create fear
      2. Ideological goal: support of their intellectual property regime which no longer fits with today's market
      3. Targetting/disregarding safety of non-combatants: How many mothers, grandmothers, and even people without any Internet access at all have been sued?

      Legal terrorism, indeed.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    18. Re:Can't put that genie back into the bottle by schmiddy · · Score: 5, Funny

      I 'stole' one copy of Metallica's album. Here's 10k copies in return.

      You know.. You can get blank CDs these days for under $0.05-$0.10 cents per disk, and USPS Media Mail lets you mail CDs for dirt cheap. Anyone up for a massive campaign of "returning" pirated MP3s to the RIAA, on hundreds of CDs, via USPS? Maybe with a return address of "Lars Ulrich,..."

      --
      http://cltracker.net -- powerful craigslist multi-city search
  2. Re:And you wonder why world hates U.S. by FredFredrickson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They say don't feed the trolls, but.. *sigh* .. it's true.

    --
    Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
  3. Re:Time for Tea? by SaDan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Right after you head to Washington D.C. and find them in the right town. ;-)

  4. Well done! by LockeOnLogic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You just outlawed every search engine!

  5. Too little, too late by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The copyright cartels are already broken. Musicians, moviemakers and other participants of creative industries are already exploiting the Internet as a means of distribution. This genie certainly won't go back into the bottle unless another "trade agreement" enacts a system of strong guilds such as that found in Mussolini's Italy.

    Besides, one international agreement does not make enforcement any easier. Millions of people just in northern europe have come to accept torrent downloading etc. as an everyday thing; international agreement or not, no country is going to toss even one percent of their population in jail for something that was not previously a crime. Not to mention actually catching and prosecuting etc. those people... matter of scale, really.

    Also, trade agreements such as these don't have the power to override national legislation. Even if the EU signs and ratifies this, it will only be at the level of the EU -- i.e. they can pass a directive which EU member nations are perfectly free to implement as laxly as they please. Remember, the EU is not a federation. Not to mention how this would meet rather stiff resistance in the euro parliament, members of which have lately been strongly turning pro-privacy and pro-free culture.

  6. Re:Oh, that's just great! by Amouth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it isnt' just for the stop downloading copyrighted shit - this can be used and twisted in many diffrent ways..

    just the fact that it allows them to get customer info without a court order is sickening..

    also the idea that the US would write something that would effect the rights and privicy of people from another nation is also sicking..

    there is more than one way for them to get what they want.. and this is the easisest for them and the wrost for us and our rights.

    everyday moving onto a sailboat and just live sailing sounds more and more like a reality for me..

    --
    '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  7. Government stupidity . . . by cashman73 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First, they killed Napster. So we moved to Limewire. Then we moved to Kazaa. Then, after a bunch of **AA lawsuits, we moved to bittorrent. Now, what in God's name makes them think that we won't move someplace else? They're never going to kill filesharing. What the fracking industry has to do is come up with content that has value and that we actually want to pay for. Piracy will never go away; it's been around in one way, shape, or form since the age of exploration. But, if content is good enough, the majority of people WILL spend money on it. The problem with radio, television, movies, and music today is that they've been feeding us crap since the early 90s, and no one but a select handful of zombies and drones wants to throw their good, hard-earned money at it.

  8. Re:Oh, that's just great! by zotz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "If you want people to respect the GPL then you must respect copyright law in general."

    This does not actually follow, or at best is a mis-stated point...

    The GPL is an attempt at copyright-jitsu. It is perhaps an attempt to use copyright laws, which you may or may not agree with, but which you have to live with until they change, to undo some or all of the percieved ill effects of said laws.

    So, it may actually boil down to this for some:

    "I don't respect copyright laws, but if you want me to respect your copyrights, you need to respect the GPL..."

    (I am not trying to accurately portray my personal take in the above.)

    all the best,

    drew
    http://packet-in.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

    --
    FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
  9. Re:That's not good. That's not good at all. by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not just the Pirate Bay. This law could criminalize services like Freenet or TOR, as they can facilitate copyright infringement. Or hell, even google.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  10. Golgafrinchans by sm62704 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately, this trade agreement....will pretty much do just that, it will unify laws to what the US, and the other top IP countries want.

    In THHGTTG trilogy, there is the "third ark" ship with its hairdressers, fashion designers, telephone sanitizers, and other useless members of Golgafrinchan society who crash land on prehistoric Earth. They decide to use tree leaves as money, making all of them incredibly wealthy. However, it causes a huge inflation problem, which the Golgafrinchans solve by burning down the forests.

    A digital file is like a tree leaf. They cost nothing. To pay for one is madness, to try to use them as a medium of exchange (trade for other goods) is even greater madness. The only sane use of digital sales is sale of the physical medium the file is stored on - like a CD or DVD.

    For a country to base their entire economy on digital files is supreme madness, as stupid as the Golgafrinchans' use of tree leaves as money.

    The heavy handed attempts to stop the sharing of something that is entirely cost-free to everyone is as stupid as the Golgafrinchans' torching of the forests.

    MP3s didn't and couldn't kill CD sales, but the switch from CDs to "selling" DRM-infested downloads instead of physical media certainly might.

    My legislators are morons and my country is on its way down.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest