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VoIP As a Solution To Rural Broadband

boyko.at.netqos recommends his article up at Network Performance Daily, which notes the recent reports that up to 30% of households do not have a landline telephone, preferring a VoIP or cell-phone based solution. What to do with the miles of last-mile phone line infrastructure already in place in almost all the homes across the country? Maybe there's a solution to rural broadband by using the high-reliability frequencies reserved for voice purely for data — and using VoIP to make phone calls. From the article: "Repurposing the broadband of 0-25kHz would result in... speeds of around 14.4 kBytes/s (or 115.9 kbits/s) upload and 28.8 kBytes/s (231.3 kbits/s) download. That's not much of a speed boost. Still, if you've been plodding along on a '56.6k' modem, at speeds of 7.2kBytes/s, this would be like an oasis in the desert. And what about those phone calls? Well, if you make the same phone calls with VoIP that you were with the standard 0-4kHz landline, it would only take about 20.8kbits/s using the G.723.1 codec — that still leaves you with 80% of your broadband capacity when on the phone — and 100% of your broadband when you're off it." Only the US FCC calls 231K "broadband," but as noted it does beat dialup.

30 of 149 comments (clear)

  1. FCC definition of broadband by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not to be pedantic (and I understand the general drift of the article), but from wikipedia: "... the US FCC used 200 kbit/s in their definition until march 19th 2008 after which it was scaled up to require a minimum of 768 kbit/s to be defined as broadband and at that time the FCC introduced new tiers in their definition as follows: 1) 200kbit/s to 768kbit/s ("first generation data"); 2) 768kbit/s to 1.5Mbit/s ("basic broadband"); 3) 1.5Mbit/s to 3 Mbit/s; 4) 3Mbit/s to 6 Mbit/s; and 5) 6Mbit/s and above." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadband_Internet_access

    1. Re:FCC definition of broadband by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Broadband" isn't a data transmission speed, not anymore than "cable", "modem" or "DSL" are transmission speeds.

      Here's a real definition of broadband:

      broadÂband adjective

      1. of, pertaining to, or responsive to a continuous, wide range of frequencies.

      2. pertaining to or denoting a type of high-speed data transmission in which the bandwidth is shared by more than one simultaneous signal.

      [definition]

      Hence: "the broadband of 0-25kHz" mentioned in the article.

    2. Re:FCC definition of broadband by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why were they allowed take a well-defined technical term and re-purpose it as meaningless marketing drivel?

      The main reason is called the First Amendment. ;-) It permits anyone to misuse any term they like for any reason.

      In this case, they're just Doing What Marketing Does. They use whatever words are effective in selling what they're selling. They figured out that to the public that has no clue about such technical terms, "broadband" just means "faster". So they adopted it as a marketing term.

      It's nothing at all unique to Internet marketing. The same approach is used everywhere that it works. People have been complaining about marketers' misuse of words since marketing came into existence back in prehistory. There's no way we're going to change this, short of educating the public about the actual definition of the terms. And considering the general public contempt for geeky stuff that requires education, that's not going to happen any time soon.

      (This misuse isn't nearly as agregious as the use of "quantum" to mean "large", when the technical definition is more like "the smallest difference possible". I'm sure others here have their favorite misuses of technical terms. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    3. Re:FCC definition of broadband by Comboman · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "Broadband" isn't a data transmission speed, not anymore than "cable", "modem" or "DSL" are transmission speeds.

      You're right; it isn't a speed, it's a bandwidth (a broad bandwidth).

      1. of, pertaining to, or responsive to a continuous, wide range of frequencies.

      Note the use of the word wide (i.e. broad) in that definition.

      Hence: "the broadband of 0-25kHz" mentioned in the article.

      This is the part I have a problem with. While "broad" and "narrow" are somewhat relative terms, broadband is typically bandwidths of megahertz or gigahertz. A bandwidth of 25,000 hertz (less than the bandwidth of human hearing at around 32kHz) is definitely considered narrowband by anyone in the RF or data transmission world. While you are correct that the word "broadband" does not refer to a specific range of data transfer speeds, using the word to refer to "anything faster than standard dial-up" is an equally serious mis-use of a technical term.

      --
      Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    4. Re:FCC definition of broadband by limaxray · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The same can be said for other terms as well.

      Take 'bandwidth' for example. It traditionally means the width of a channel, as in the difference between an upper and lower cutoff frequencies. So say you have a bandpass filter that blocks all frequencies below 1 MHz and above 5 Mhz. It's bandwidth is said to be 4 MHz.

      In the digital era though, it has evolved to also mean data rate. This has come about because channel width on an analog medium directly impacts channel capacity; the wider the channel, the greater the capacity and the faster the data rates. This somehow got manipulated into using bandwidth to describe data rate in general, and now you regularly hear people using it to describe how fast their internet connections are.

      Using the term bandwidth for a digital medium, (such as a differential signaling medium like USB,Firewire, PCIe, Fast Ethernet, etc) doesn't make any sense in the classical sense as there are no 'channels' to have 'widths'. In today's terminology though, it makes perfect sense and is completely acceptable.

      Basically, get used to it. Technology evolves, and language must evolve with it. The fact is the people evolving the language aren't the ones evolving the technology; they're usually the ones selling the technology.

    5. Re:FCC definition of broadband by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      For the purposes of this post bandwidth is defined in the traditional sense of the range of frequencies availible for your transmission.

      ALL real world mediums are analog. Signals reflect off discontinuities. Noise gets added and higher frequencies get attenuated. Your channel may be all the usable bandwidth of a cable or it may be only a subset of it but it is still most certainly a meaningfull figure. A differential pair has a limited bandwidth just like any other cable (it has good noise immunitiy though especially if twisted, that along with being much cheaper than coax is why twisted is such a popular medium).

      Even fiber has a limited bandwidth though unfortunately the limitations of current technology means most of it gets left unused.

      We may choose to use the whole bandwidth of a communications medium as one channel. This is usually done for short distance links where we can relatively easilly install a high bandwidth low noise channel.

      Often however it is to our advantage to divide the bandwidth we have availible into a number of narrower channels. It reduces sensitivity to reflections in cables or multipath distortion in radio. For point to point links it allows our equipment to negotiate different numbers of bits per symbol depending on how noisy that bit of spectrum is.

      The problem with redefinitions like this is that they leave a lot of ambiguity. Especially as in the digital world you usually need to refer to both.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  2. Sounds cheaper by esocid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And better than satellite since it shouldn't degrade when the weather isn't perfect. That was the main complaint of people I know who live in the boonies and have to go with satellite (note that those people don't require low latency).

    --
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
    1. Re:Sounds cheaper by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not only that, but my brother is a dial-up user and while he does comment on my connection being faster than his when he's over, the most common "OMG teh coolness!" thing he likes about my connection: it doesn't tie up the phone line.

      Seriously, most rural people are not technophiles. I'd suspect that 256kb/s download would be just fine if they also got to free up their telephone line.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:Sounds cheaper by Amouth · · Score: 4, Funny

      i don't think "YouTube is still a painful experience" is due in any respect to your connection speed - it has alot more to do with the content and people who comment there.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    3. Re:Sounds cheaper by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then your definition of "rural" is a bit looser than mine. When I spoke about my broker earlier: his closest neighbor is 6 miles away ;). There is no "town" to speak of.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    4. Re:Sounds cheaper by mr_mischief · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, the ground expanding and contracting, the copper or aluminum conductors getting wet, cards hitting poles in bad conditions, and winds blowing down lines off of above-ground poles (or the poles falling over, trees breaking in the wind or under the weight of ice and falling on lines) is a huge problem for electricity out in the country, let alone telephone service.

      My parents go without power at least 18 hours a year, and they're only 7 miles from the closest town, with no two houses along their road being more than a couple hundred meters apart. They call AT&T from a neighbor's house or from work about once a year to let them know they've been without phone service overnight.

      By contrast, a 30cm dish will break up a bit in a bad storm for a few minutes and not require a truck roll unless the dish actually comes off the mount or the positioning bolts come loose. A 120cm C-band dish will work through almost any weather. Those are for TV data rates, and those are much higher than voice lines.

      The latency on interactive services over geosynchronous satellites is crap, though. Point- to-multipoint home wireless from a tower is a much better for those who can get it, and the startup cost for installation is much cheaper than running a new cable plant to every house.

  3. Much like ISDN... by pagley · · Score: 2, Informative

    That was much like the overall premise and promise of ISDN BRI - "high speed" digital access over voice grade plant, which failed miserably due to a number of technical, political, and corporate reasons.

    Granted, the OP's proposal is somewhat different, as I assume he was referring to using DSL-like technology in the full voice band. But, there are also limitations on how much data can be carried in a given amount of spectrum using various modulation and encoding schemes.

    1. Re:Much like ISDN... by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is a missing item to consider. Much of the infrastructure that exists, even in rural USA is that there are more than one pair of copper to most homes. Ma Bell wanted to see you two phone lines at one time, so the possibility of DSL grade equipment that bridges two network connections could in fact provide a quite reasonable ride for your bits.

      In fact, if the RBOCs sold that bundled with VoIP, I'm certain that it would be bought up handily. I know that some of my family would do so if reasonably priced without blinking an eye.

      So think not of just a single DSL capable line, but of two or more of them shared across a single network (TCP/IP) access point within the home. That could easily fall inside the definitions of broadband connectivity.

      This kind of networking is simple for router type equipment: terminate two DSL lines, bridge, route, add switching for end user connections... done.

      Yes Sir, and if you are smart, add (for nominal monthly fee) a small fanless backup server in the router box. Not that I believe for a second that RBOC management is smart in that way.

      The technology is available. The infrastructure is available. Those paying for satellite, phone, cell might well save a good bit of cash to convert to a bundle service, so cash should be available....

      DOH! slap forehead... why isn't this done already?

    2. Re:Much like ISDN... by Amouth · · Score: 3, Informative

      isdn BRI didn't fail do to technical or political reasons..

      it failed to become main stream because durring the time frame where it would have been the first broadband that could be delivered anywhere - the phone company priced it out of existance for nearly any home user.

      yes the first gen did have anissue of requiring f1 pairs.. (2 at that).. but they later changed it so it could use a single pair and also be routed accross fiber nodes..

      pricing is what killed it (well more of a still birth).. but functionaly it was great (i used one for many years)

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  4. Waste of time by eln · · Score: 2, Funny

    Seems silly to spend all that time and money trying to get the FCC to change its regulations when this situation seems tailor made for a good RFC 1149 implementation. Latency is still an issue with such a setup, but bandwidth can be virtually unlimited if you have the resources.

    1. Re:Waste of time by Dekortage · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unfortunately, in rural areas, RFC 1149 datagram carriers may be actively destroyed for human sustenance. This would further increase latency, and could pose a significant security hole. In such network regions, packet sniffers tend to be numerous and very active, working on four-pronged mobility structures, and may occasionally carry fleas.

      However, within this modality, the risk of VoIP being unscrupulously wiretapped is already very low, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

      --
      $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
  5. Dream on... by jlindy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sounds nice but,try to get the telco's to implement it in areas that they deem unprofitable without an act of congress. The best solution for broadband in the boonies as I see it would be broadband over powerlines.

  6. Not broadband, but... by Endo13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It actually sounds like a good idea. Sure, it's not as fast as broadband, but it's still a good five times faster than dialup. And ten times faster than a lot of people get in those rural areas where no wired broadband is available.

    --
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  7. Questions. by sexconker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    911 with VoiP?

    And before someone says it - a lot of rural people don't depend on 911 anyway, I know (because of distance), but a lot of people us city folk would consider "rural" DO depend on 911.

    And how do you IMPLEMENT this?
    get every phone line set up for VoiP and train people, and then flick a switch one day? Do you stagger it so you move a chunk of people over to data, cap their speeds, and then move some more people? There WILL be holdouts - medical equipment, old credit card / check readers should work, but they'll have to be tested.

    You won't be able to utilize the full bandwidth of that frequency range until you get everyone switched over. And who pays for it? Do you force this on everyone? A lot of people have no internet, and a lot pay through the nose (and have contracts) for satellite net service.

    If we have money to be running around the countryside handing out VoiP phones, informing people, etc, why not just run some fiber all over hell? Let companies buy the last mile.

    The major cost in both scenarios is paying for the man hours involved. We don't have the money for either plan (running fiber or getting people VoiP ready).

    1. Re:Questions. by Locklin · · Score: 2, Informative

      911 works on VOIP -they call it e911. It works as long as your provider has your address. Many providers have it, including Acanac ( http://www.acanac.com/Phones.htm )

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    2. Re:Questions. by FamineMonk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Couldn't you just make a special model voip phone that could force the line to switch back to some kind of basic phone service?

      It might be a little hard to set up but it would a pretty good back up.

    3. Re:Questions. by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      100% of the 911 scare was generated by the incumbent phone carriers. They have fought tooth and nail for the privilege of making 911 fail on VOIP phones. In some places they have won, and have been allowed to cripple 911. In other places they have lost, and they are not allowed to cripple 911. Besides, the whole 911 fear mongering is lame anyway. Most people spend HUGE amounts of time in places that have no better 911 capabilities than what are available in the places that the incumbent phone companies have been allowed to cripple 911. Driving to work for example.

  8. Just use ISDN by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is what ISDN is good for. It's not very demanding of loop quality, and you get uncompressed digital voice, plus modest data capability.

    ISDN voice handsets are common in Europe. The Swiss PTT likes them. European practice is to power them from the central office, so you don't need power at the subscriber end. US practice is to power ISDN gear from the subscriber end, which makes them unreliable as a primary phone connection. There's no fundamental reason, though, why central office power for ISDN can't be used in the US. The gear is available.

    The problem is that many rural lines have analog repeaters out on poles somewhere, and those are't compatible with DSL, ISDN, or much of anything else. See Rural Telephony Workshop Report..

  9. Sounds like IDSL by rickkas7 · · Score: 2, Informative

    This sounds pretty much like IDSL. The problem has never been technological - the problem is getting your telephone company to implement it at a price that's reasonable. Instead of breaking up the low frequencies into two 64 Kbit/sec ISDN BRI channels and one 16 Kbits/sec D channel for signaling, IDSL just uses all 144 Kbits/sec (symmetric) for data. The suggestion is asymmetric ISDN based broadband, but that's a minor difference. ISDN goes much longer distances than ADSL or SDSL due to the lower frequencies. In the early 1990s I had ISDN and it worked fine, except the phone company charged $ 250 a month for unlimited 128 Kbits/sec. Great technology (at the time), but insane pricing.

  10. so ... by B3ryllium · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's going to be Voice over IP over Voice? VoIPoV?

  11. Re:4 kHz != 25 kHz by Bovarchist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not sure about the math, but when I was working on my Master's degree, an old tech from Bell labs told us that the reason DSL can't go very far is that load coils are placed in the copper lines to prevent capacitance over long distances. These coils also had the effect of wiping out everything but ~300 - ~3300 Hz. DSL's range is limited because the frequencies it uses can't reach past these load coils. Once that distance is reached, the only thing left is the 3-4 kHz that is required for a single voice call.

    --
    Hell is other people's code.
  12. IDSL uses ISDN modulation without switching by billstewart · · Score: 2, Informative
    IDSL is an ISDN-flavored DSL version. It uses the ISDN modulation to send bits over the wire, but with a full-time DSLAM connection as opposed to ISDN switched calling.
    It gets 144kbps - ISDN has two 64kbps B channels and a 16kbps D channel, and is typically used for a 128kbps bonded circuit.


    The big advantage of IDSL is distance - it typically gets about 30,000 feet, compared to about 18000 for most DSL flavors.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  13. Hit and miss politics by billsf · · Score: 3, Informative

    There isn't too much information in the article, particularly what problems may be encountered. The amount of data that can be delivered will vary greatly due to certain technical considerations. Politically, giving everyone in rural areas the 'same lousy service' is a minefield.

    The outside cable plant and distance to the central office is everything:

    * "Wires on poles" can degrade bandwidth 10x or more, particularly if there is industrial or broadcast interference. Modern underground cable plant can provide several Mbit/s up to 30km or so.

    * Loading coils, commonly used in the past to maintain 600 or 900 ohm line impedance, limit the bandwidth of the lines to not mush more than 4kHz. They must be removed which is allot of tedious labour. Once removed, POTS may not work properly. Since some lines will need them and others definitely not, this gives a great excuse to 'take forever' to install the service.

    * COTS DSL-modem/routers, common in many areas, may not work on large runs. Slightly modified units can put out greater signal and have better echo cancellation. This looks like a lock-in and higher prices. Higher transmission levels, lower received levels and longer runs invite crosstalk in a big way. It may be that many systems start out really good, but quickly degrade as more subscribers are added.

    * Some rural cable-plant is "hollow-sounding" with voice and will simply not work with DSL. I'm no expert on US rural phone systems, but its fair to say most will get the pitiful 256kbit/s rate. This is what can be achieved with above-ground cable-plant at 30km in a city environment. The actual case I use example is Buenos Aries.

    Any cable-plant that doesn't support 25kHz should be recycled! Otherwise, most will probably do much better, so limiting service to below 256kbit/s is deceptive. All told, there are a number of technical hurdles, which can be overcome, but the politics will go on forever.

    This isn't a nice comparison to make, but in England there is more 'broadband' (there is a somewhat higher standard to the definition there) in the country than the city. Of course, like most of Europe, all wires are underground.

  14. Cell networks for last mile by Rijnzael · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Until recently moving off to college, I have lived in a rural area. For the four years of living in this area, I used ISDN for data only, while also having two separate landlines for voice-only use. Let me tell you, for the price of the line installation, monthly line fees, monthly per-dial fees, and shoddy service with a very low cap, ISDN is not worth it. It exceeded $100 per month. I've just recently switched to Sprint EVDO for data service, and the quality is amazing. In spite of having virtually nil DSL penetration and absolutely no cable, this area has full cellular coverage, and I get fairly decent speeds around 1mbit, which is a godsend compared to 112kbps. I think cellular networks should be the platform on which to deploy more rural services, while deep penetrating but expensive, antiquated services such as ISDN and T1 should be put to rest.

  15. The nice thing about landlines, they just work by Duradin · · Score: 2, Informative

    Power goes out. Landlines still work. Weather gets crappy. Landlines still work. Not much that can fail on the user's end. Start tossing VoIP in the picture and you're adding a whole bunch of equipment that has lot of ways to fail.