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Atari Founder Proclaims the End of Gaming Piracy

OMGZombies writes "Speaking on a conference held yesterday in New York, the Atari founder Nolan Bushnell said that a new stealth encryption chip called TPM will 'absolutely stop piracy of gameplay'. The chip is apparently being embedded on most of the new computer motherboards and is said to be 'uncrackable by people on the internet and by giving away passwords' though it won't stop movie or music piracy, since 'if you can watch it and you can hear it, you can copy it.'"

16 of 831 comments (clear)

  1. Fire up the soldering irons... by Q-Hack! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    said to be 'uncrackable by people on the internet and by giving away passwords'>

    Sounds like a challenge!

    No encryption scheme is 100%; some are just better than others. When will people learn!

    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    1. Re:Fire up the soldering irons... by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, people saying stuff like that is always pretty funny and depressing at the same time. The consumers just keep lapping it up.. even companies that you'd think would be fairly tech-savvy seem to fall for this stuff - I remember when the Wii came out it had some kind of encryption on the CPU output to stop modchips piggybacking onto it, but that must have been cracked too as when I see comments about people modding their Wiis, I'm pretty sure they're referring to the consoles. The PS3's babysitting OS also doesn't let Linux on the PS3 use 3D acceleration - I'd like to see someone crack that open :)

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:Fire up the soldering irons... by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You will get a situation where two alternatives exists:
      1. You will have the perfect copy-protection, but only a select few will buy your game.
      2. There will be a crack that solves the problem of copy-protection.
      And anyway - there has to be some code that accesses the TPM chip, and that also means that given enough time and effort it's possible to circumvent it, or even simulate the TPM chip.

      Copy protection has been tried before - always with dubious result.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:Fire up the soldering irons... by Robocoastie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      EULA's on hardware like the game consoles should be illegal. We buy those, they are not returnable later if we discover a feature of it we don't agree with. They shouldn't give a damn if I mod it or even find a way to make it control the temperatures on my refrigerator. I have had it with these proprietary attitudes companies have and have slowly come to fully understand "freedom" that OSS-only people talk about. The problem is that with DRM chips like this starting to come out its only a matter of time before the computer motherboards have EULA's on them like game consoles do as well and forbid us to use them for anything but an "approved" OS. The stupid code built into DELL motherboards and their version of Windows is bad enough as it is. Equally stupid is having to re-activate windows everytime we change hardware. I even had to call MSFT for re-activation after I upgraded RAM!

    4. Re:Fire up the soldering irons... by fwarren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      in a related event, god said: thou shalt not steal.

      Yes, the sheepel should just not buy any game, music or video that infringes upon their rights of free use.

      If Joe sixpack would go and ask three questions. 1. can I make a backup copy 2. Can I shift formats so I can play it on a different device and 3. Can I sell it to some one else who can use it just the same as I did when I own it?

      If they would just not buy anything that broke those rules. Locked down media would not be an issue. Corporations would not be pushing "by you purchasing this, you give up your fair use rights". Instead they would have to deal with fair use as they always have. On a level playing field with their customers.

      To bad the more they see ways to remove pesky "fair use" rights and the more laws they make against circumvention of digital protection. They have to deal with the other end. Bandwith becoming cheaper, and it is easier to distribute and use a "broken" copy of a digtial product than it is to use the original.

      --
      vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    5. Re:Fire up the soldering irons... by kvezach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's another option in practice: assume developers make bugs, find and use a buffer overflow, and then inject code that dumps the entire game. In theory, there will be no bugs and so you can't get at the content (which is bottled up inside sealed storage), but in practice... have you ever heard of a bug-free program?

      That won't work with multiplayer any more than fake CD keys will, but that's nothing new. I can't say I like the way the corporations are trying to make general purpose PCs into special-purpose appliances, though; it feels too much like "Right to Read".

    6. Re:Fire up the soldering irons... by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      (Replying to parent post since I can't reply to all the replies to that at once)

      All of you guys have COMPLETELY missed his point. He's neither dragging religious debate into this, nor is he saying modding is stealing. He is saying that "thou shalt not steal" was a similar absolute statement, which people break all the damn time. The point is that making absolute, sweeping statements like "no one can break this encryption" is pointless.

      I think some people here are just a bit too trigger-happy with their flamethrowers. Jeez.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
  2. I wonder.. by gmerideth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder if game developers have ever even considered that some piracy occurs because the gamers cannot afford the games themselves. Adding a chip that prevents piracy wont result in any additional income from people who simply cannot afford the games to begin with. I for one prefer to spend my money on gas these days than games.

    --
    Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?
    1. Re:I wonder.. by barc0001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullshit. They're losing customers because they treat everyone like thieves. Stardock doesn't and last I looked they're doing quite well.

      The principle problem I have is the companies and how they want it both ways. When you purchase software you're not buying it, you're "licensing" it. But if something happens to the media your licensed software came on, like it was scratched or broken and rendered unusable, you have to purchase another media at full price, despite the fact you've already "licensed" it.

      Use services like Steam and this problem goes away. Although Steam has a few issues if you don't have an active net connection as well, so that could be improved on. But I vastly prefer their idea that once you buy a game, you can reinstall it on as many of your machines as you want so long as you're only playing it on one at a time. And there's no media to lose or need to have in the CD tray.

      ID had probably the perfect setup back in the Q3Arena days. Buy our game, then take the disk and install it on all the machines in the office, everyone can play a LAN game for free. But if you want to play online, you need your own key. It was perfect, and it was a wonderful promotional tool. I know at least a dozen people in the office who got so hooked on Q3 during our LAN parties that they went out and bought Q3 to play online. All of those purchasers would never have even thought about it unless they were able to try it for free like they did.

  3. Physical access == game over by GigaHurtsMyRobot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no such thing as un-crackable. There is, however, a level where cracking becomes cost-inefficient.

    I still doubt TPM will take us to that level, because it will have to have almost universal adoption and that will take many years. Software or hardware exploits will be found, and adoption/versioning issues will keep them from being fixed.

    They should really stop fighting the wave, and put all their anti-piracy money into creative talent and developers.

  4. OMG Trustable Computing! by Cally · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "apparently embedded in most motherboards" -- not meaning to sound snide, but where the hell have you been for the last five years? Google things like TPM, Palladium, trustworthy computing, untrusted computing, Ross Anderson...

    --
    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
  5. Famous last words by Orange+Crush · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Reasons why he's dead wrong (in no particular order and by no means comprehensive):


    -TPM in and of itself won't protect against piracy at all if the implementation is botched.
    -Tying purchased software or media to a specific hardware device p*sses people off when they repair, replace or upgrade and their DRMed stuff no longer works.
    -Talk about opening up Asian markets, etc, is proceeding under the flawed assumption that those who acquire illegal copies of a game would even purchase a legit copy.
    -Restricting your potential install base in this manner will reduce exposure, popularity, and ultimately sales of your game despite the opposite being your goal.
  6. I tagged this article by Omnifarious · · Score: 5, Insightful
    • defectivebydesign
    • trecherouscomputing

    I own my computer. I bought the hardware. I should be able to do whatever I want with it. The reasons the concept of copyright has been created are not compelling enough to essentially force every computer to have a police chip in it to make sure we honor it.

  7. Atari is claiming this? by BLKMGK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Umm so like they just woke up from a coma and heard about Trusted Computing? ROTFL! Mind you Atari had jack to do with this technology.

    Trusted Computing uses the TPM module, it's in many but FAR from all computers. It's in this laptop, it can be ADDED to my desktop's motherboard. It's designed to store measures of critical OS and hardware components like the BIOS to prevent tampering. Modify a file who's hash is stored in the TPM and is checked by a critical process and the system won't boot. There's a random number generator in there and yeah probably a private keypair too. So what I can only EVER play my game on this one machine now? It's locked to this machine? Games upgrade their stuff more than anyone else and he thinks this is the great panacea? You could do this today with your own code much the way Vista does, has that helped adoption? The TPM might be a more effective way to do it but it won't guarantee sales.

    There are several games on the market and coming to market that I have not nor will I purchase simply because the DRM is too intrusive. Games that require me to be connected to the 'net for "verification" to play standalone or that can only be purchased and downloaded via DRM'd mechanisms aren't of interest to me. I and others have voted with our wallets.

    Want to KILL the commercial game industry? Implement this! This guy sounds like your typical PHB who has stumbled upon something in a trade rag, seized upon the idea, and is trumpeting to anyone in management that will listen what a great idea he's found. In short he's a fool. He also sounds like he believes that everyone who's pirating games now will suddenly be forced to start buying them, wow is he and the music industry going to be in for a shock when they finally figure out this isn't the case!

    GL Atari, was nice knowing you.

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  8. Hiya by xstonedogx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Long time paying customer here. Just a quick note to let you know that I would buy more games if your prices were lower (because you weren't pissing money away on stupid schemes like this) and you spent more time focusing on how to get money out of me (by offering value) rather than trying to get money out of people who have proven they are not able to/going to pay.

    Anyway, thanks for letting me know about TPM. I'll be sure not to purchase hardware from vendors including it on their MBs, since I obviously cannot trust them.

  9. Re:pplz on teh internetz! by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hear they're good at removing and replacing chips on motherboards, or at least on gaming consoles. Just to preempt the inevitably replies saying something along the lines of: "most people don't have the knowledge or inclination to mod their hardware... if a hack requires physical changes to the machine, this will prevent 99% of people from pirating."

    It's important to remember that you only need 1% of people (or even 0.1%) to have the knowledge and inclination to perform these mods, if it allows them to make unencrypted copies of the data. All you need is a small group of dedicated hackers who generate cracked copies of games, and release these in the usual way (bit-torrent, etc.). Just as movie release groups have a lot of specialized knowledge and connections, thereby making copyright infringement trivially easy for the masses, so too will anti-TPM groups appear, who will trivialize this kind of circumvention for the masses.

    TPM doesn't make copyright infringement impossible. It merely adds another layer of complexity for the hackers. Alas, hackers enjoy the challenge of breaking through these layers.