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Ancestry Surprises From New Genetics Analysis Method
An anonymous reader commends a recently published study involving a new way to analyze genetic variation in human populations (full article published in PLOS Genetics): "[S]cientists from Ireland, the UK and the US analysed 2,540 genetic markers in the DNA of almost 1,000 people from around the world whose genetic material had been collected by the Human Genome Diversity Project. The results include a number of surprises... the Yakut people of northern Siberia were found to have received a significant genetic contribution from the population of the Orkney Islands, which lie off the coast of Scotland... there must have been a period of gene flow from northern Europe to east Asia. The study also shed light on the peopling of the Americas, as the results suggest that the native populations of north and south America have different origins."
A lot of people didn't want to give up on the idea that the arctic bridge was the only way people got to the Americas, when it made much more sense that some people could've traveled the ocean to settle here.
This story sparked my interest so I searched for a while on the internet to find some maps of what the world looked like back in the ages and where evidence of people has been found linked with DNA evidence of how people actually have moved.
I sadly came up with nothing... anyone who knows where to find anything like this?
This isn't to say Polynesians were the first to South America, as Easter Island was populated around 2000 years ago while S.A. was populated many thousands of more years before that. However, it seems likely that there might have been genetic mixing between Polynesians and South American coastal tribes.
There's not as much area when you move further north, so it's not surprising that the peoples up there would interact more. There's probably been some interaction with the Ainu people of Japan, too, due to many Caucasoid traits they have. The one thing about Homo Sapiens is, we tend to move around a lot.
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
Ever seen Gattaca?
The end of WWII supposedly brought an end to eugenics in Germany, but it was, even then, thriving in the English speaking world and continues to do so.
The weakness of our civilization has become a lack of any moral vigor. Pretty much every time there is protest on moral grounds it is trivialized by the media and the whole thing is treated like a sport between nay-sayers and scientists.
It's a weakness because it breeds distrust and fear in the community. if we don't come up with/maintain some kind of moral integrity in our scientific community, we will be overrun by groups who will impose an extreme opposite on us. And yeah, you're right, someone will come up with a logical but crazy conclusion and we'll have another wave of white-coat slaughter happening.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
Remember that there is a difference between using mitochondrial DNA (the studies you cited) and autosomal DNA (this study). With mitochondrial DNA, the only information that you get is along the maternal line, so you're missing a lot of the data. Looking back 20 generations, for example, you're only looking at one ancestor out of about a million. It would be possible for two groups to come over but only one be reflected in the maternal line.
No. It means only what was said: "This population was subsequently replaced"
We don't have anything like the grain necessary to deduce something like you're suggesting. However if proven this *proposal* does put a end to the terms "First Peoples" and "First Nations", at least for rational people and for legislation. And the term "Native Americans", for that matter.
God knows what it would mean for previous legislation already in force, like land claim settlements. It might only mean some meta-legislation to recognize the now-inaccurate terminology of earlier legislation as quaint but still binding. But there's huge money at stake so there will be strong lobbying to void as many claims as possible.
This will play out at the national level, and also at the UN where there's quite a bit of legislation about aboriginal rights. Probably it's going to be very messy.
You'd be wrong there.
Depends on what period of history and what area you're talking about, actually.
There's evidence of Jewish presence in China as early as the 7th century. There were reports in the 9th century of Christian, Muslims, and Jews killed in a massacre in the 9th century. And Marco Polo reported encountering Jews in China in the 13th century. They lived mostly in Kaifeng, where a synagogue was built in the 11th century.
However, it wasn't until the 15th century that Jews in China had much recognition by the local government. In 1421, Jews were finally allowed to take the civil service test. The population in Kaifeng was discovered by European Christians in the 17th century, who used their version of the Torah to crosscheck it against the versions being used in Europe. They were identical.
So... yeah. Not many Jews, but there are signs dating back to the 7th century that Jews were present.
'Course, that's not nearly early enough to match up with Mormon scripture.
Yes, Eugenics has a bad rap because of the way it used to be done forcibly in Nazi Germany, the US and other places.
But what's wrong with it if it's done in an ethically responsible way? [Prospective] parents have access to genetic testing/counseling if there's known risks like hereditary diseases, and embryos can be tested and aborted if they have severe [genetic] defects. If a couple has significant genetic defects they can choose to adopt. That's eugenics, pure and simple. What's wrong with that?
And don't start with a slippery slope argument. It's up to legislation to set the proper limits and it's up to society to apply scientific results in the proper way. We are able to read the genome today, and it's getting cheaper and cheaper. Applied properly, this can be very beneficial. Applied badly, see Gattaca.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
"But, genetic evidence proves that they come from Taiwain."
Most people in Taiwan are not "Taiwanese", they are ethnic Chinese which have outnumbered the original, mostly Malay people groups. I am not sure which of these you mean by saying "from Taiwan". The ethnic Chinese have not lived there for so long, just a few centuries.
What would you class as interfering?
Any use of force, including the use of tax money.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The movies they attach are not very good.
I have some Python source code for doing similar things with the case of European nations on http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2007/06/animated_mds_co.html (there is an animated GIF there).
A bit more discussion about my methodology is at http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2007/06/nations_of_euro.html
Here's a good article by Jared Diamond, for anybody that wants to see what they would be getting into:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/04/21/080421fa_fact_diamond?currentPage=all
The article is about the vengeance culture that exists (and is being curtailed) in New Guinea, and the tension between personal satisfaction and state mediation.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
You are forgetting gunpowder guns, steel armor, and horses. Those improved the chances significantly. The fact that at least in Central America the natives were a bunch of bickering and warring tribes helped as well. Try reading about how Cortes invaded Tenochtitlan. If I was getting my place raided and my people enslaved to provide for live sacrifices, I would have joined the Spanish too. Besides, they may have got smallpox, but we got gonorrhea.
So what does this mean for Native Americans? They were aggressive immigrants who displaced the original population?
Yep and that is not a surprise. If you read the oral histories of the various current North American Tribes they tell of thier ancesors replacing the people who lived there before.
Many times it was done in war but you also have things like tribes forming together to form a new distinct group, or outsiders coming in and over time they replace the people formerly there and the old group melting into the new tribe.
I have heard, no guarrentee, there is not one modern North American tribe that can say that thier ancestors were the first in the area and they did not displace someother group of people. This was based on thier first interaction with Europians.