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Judge Refuses To Sign RIAA 'Ex Parte' Order

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The RIAA just can't get enough of going after University of Maine students, but it appears that the judges in Portland, Maine, may be getting wise to the industry's lawyers' antics. RIAA counsel submitted yet another ex parte discovery order to the Court ('ex parte' meaning 'without notice'), in BMG v. Does 1-11, but this time the judge refused to sign, pointing out that there is no emergency since there is no evidence that records are about to be destroyed [PDF]. This is the same judge who has previously suggested the imposition of Rule 11 sanctions against the RIAA lawyers, accusing them of gamesmanship."

22 of 239 comments (clear)

  1. These guys... by that_itch_kid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The RIAA are getting stupider by the minute. It's high time they learned that people aren't going to take this shit sitting down for much longer.

    The more the courts resist their moves, the more people will stand up for their rights.

    1. Re:These guys... by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Sadly, their tactics have been working.

      Even if you are innocent or think you have a good chance of being found not guilty, the time it will take out of your life, possibly having your good name tarnished and hurting your job or chances of income, the negativity on your credit to have a judgment against you, etc is enough to have people settle for a few thousand dollars they should not have had to pay.

    2. Re:These guys... by masdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The RIAA are getting stupider by the minute. It's high time they learned that people aren't going to take this shit sitting down for much longer. The more the courts resist their moves, the more people will stand up for their rights.

      The RIAA and their lawyers have one thing that most defendants don't have - bags of money to fund these suits. The goal isn't to win - those who fight the charges have shown that the RIAA doesn't have much of a leg to stand on - but to drag the cases to a settlement where they get some money.

      I don't think they would give this up - even with a string of defeats, they will eventually find a friendly judge or get enough laws passed in their favor to protect their antiquated business model.

    3. Re:These guys... by fishbowl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm waiting for the RIAA to claim infringement against something they don't actually represent the copyright (or mechanical license) to. One thing Copyright Law does a pretty good job of, is protecting you (the copyright holder) from other parties claiming your work as your own (and using that claim as a basis for litigation).
      I keep hoping they screw this up, and claim to represent some independent songwriter who will then press criminal charges.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    4. Re:These guys... by Ethidium · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The more the courts resist their moves, the more people will stand up for their rights. Don't pull out your revolutionary songbook quite yet. Keep in mind that it wouldn't be news if judges were resisting this shit left and right. It's news because this judge did something uncommon.
      --
      \
    5. Re:These guys... by gnick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But unlimited songs would probably cost quite much in the industries view, say 50 dollar / month or so Actually, it's about $12.99/month... Some people just like to whine without exploring their legal options first because the criminal options are marginally cheaper and they like to play the part of a martyr whose piracy rights are being violated. If you want copywritten material, buy a copy. Otherwise, live without it (or boycott it if you feel the need to protest.)

      Here come the (-1 Troll) mods... Sig embarrassingly related.
      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    6. Re:These guys... by markov_chain · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't pull out your revolutionary songbook quite yet

      Yeah, you better not!

      Sincerely,
      The Revere Estate
      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    7. Re:These guys... by brendank310 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I thought your last sentence was your signature, and it was some sort of hex joke. sigh.. I need a break from computers.

    8. Re:These guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      My guess is you're not an American. These are civil cases, not criminal. In that case, you aren't innocent until proven guilty, and there is no concept of "reasonable doubt". They just have to prove that its more likely that you did it than that you didn't. No one has been fined. A settlement is not a fine. Fines go to the government, settlements to the other party. You aren't convicted in civil court either. Either stop pretending to be an American, or take a civics class.

    9. Re:These guys... by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And how many people are actually innocent?

      I don't see the issue in that a few innocent people may get caught, I see the issue in that we are all criminals ;D
      (And I think it's to late for them to fix it, all crimes of copyright infrigement should just be statute-barrred.)

      Just to complete the thought: When a law makes the majority of the population criminal (or infringers), it's time to rethink the law.

      In China they have laws which everyone has to break to conduct business. The government uses these laws to arrest / imprison / execute whomever they feel like for whatever reason they feel like - if everyone is guilty of breaking the law, "innocent until proven guilty" becomes a moot point. Local officials use them to extort bribes from the populace. There's enormous potential for abuse of such laws.

    10. Re:These guys... by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1) Of course they were being shared. Whether anyone took them up on their offer to share, and whether the person understood what they were doing... those are issues that are uncertain. But they were accessable for other people to download.

      Reasonable doubt doesn't factor in at all. It is a civil case, the standard of proof is "more likely than not". Which means you will need to explain why those files were publically shared.


      But is the offer to share the same thing as sharing?

      To overuse a car analogy, if you buy a car that can go >110MPH (basically the highest legal speed limit), are you guilty of speeding? And should the DMV just fine every driver for speeding anyhow, since I'm sure 99% of all drivers during their lives have exceeded the speed limit (even by 1MPH... or inadvertently, going downhill, for instance)?

      Just because you could, doesn't mean you did. More likely than not, the car in your driveway can exceed the speed limit. Why don't you explain why you have it, since you can be speeding?
    11. Re:These guys... by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Informative

      How is this flamebait? It's correct. Yeah, he could have been a little more friendly in his tone, but honestly, we can't have a /. story on an RIAA case without some nimrod getting criminal and civil cases confused.

      In civil cases, the burden of guilt is based on preponderance of evidence. In other words, if it is more likely then not that you committed the act in question, that is all that is required in a civil trial. This, BTW, is how O.J. Simpson was found liable for the deaths of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman... although he was found not guilty in the criminal trial, the same evidence was used to find him liable for their deaths because the burden of proof was that much lighter.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  2. NYCL is a lawyer who handles RIAA cases! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    > 'Ex parte' does not really mean without notice.

    Normally, no. In RIAA 'expedited discovery' cases, however, it _does_! They grab the discovery against twenty or so people and withdraw from the case immediately afterwards.

    If you knew anything about our submitter, you'd know that he's a lawyer and that when the RIAA runs things, they go for "expedited" motions so that things really do happen without reasonable notice for the parties in question.

    While you're correct about what ex parte (usually) means, in RIAA cases, I will defer to NYCL. He is, after all, an attorney who has been directly involved in cases opposing them and who has a nice FAQ on his website. It tells you exactly how they run these cases and why they habitually withdraw from the case once they get discovery in the ex parte suit and send people to their "settlement center" after that, making the entire process something most parties only find out about after the fact.

    So no, he didn't include the words "ex parte" just because he thought they sounded cool.

    - I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property

    1. Re:NYCL is a lawyer who handles RIAA cases! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

      > 'Ex parte' does not really mean without notice. Normally, no. In RIAA 'expedited discovery' cases, however, it _does_! They grab the discovery against twenty or so people and withdraw from the case immediately afterwards. If you knew anything about our submitter, you'd know that he's a lawyer and that when the RIAA runs things, they go for "expedited" motions so that things really do happen without reasonable notice for the parties in question. While you're correct about what ex parte (usually) means, in RIAA cases, I will defer to NYCL. He is, after all, an attorney who has been directly involved in cases opposing them and who has a nice FAQ on his website. It tells you exactly how they run these cases and why they habitually withdraw from the case once they get discovery in the ex parte suit and send people to their "settlement center" after that, making the entire process something most parties only find out about after the fact. So no, he didn't include the words "ex parte" just because he thought they sounded cool. Thank you. No I don't do anything to sound cool. I don't have it in me to sound cool.

      In American litigation (which I've been working in since 1974), the term "ex parte" means "without notice".
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  3. Re:Ex parte by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Informative

    I suspect NewYorkCountryLawyer has some clue about what he's talking about.

    Also: According to the (current) page on it in wikipedia:

    In Australian, Canadian, U.K., and U.S. legal doctrines, ex parte means a legal proceeding brought by one person in the absence of and without representation or notification of other parties. It is also used more loosely to refer to improper unilateral contacts with a court, arbitrator or represented party without notice to the other party or counsel for that party.

    So it's "ex parte", not because the Does aren't present, but because the RIAA is asking the judge to rule without consulting the Does and giving them a chance to file a counterargument. If they are given a chance to file a response (even if they're not physically present - especially at the same time as the RIAA representatives which could lead to them being identified even if they should not be) then it's no longer "ex parte" according to the US usage.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  4. Good news but still... by pravuil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With all that has been going on with these cases, there has been tons of money thrown down the drain through court costs and layers fees. Most of it on the side of the recording industry. They haven't made any dent in which accounts for anything. I understand going after legitimate pirates who attempt to profit from shared distribution. People like that need to be jailed. With the industries failure to create a viable model of distribution within the digital age, I start to ask are they spending all their time on lawsuits while hoping the internet is a passing fad? I think it's time they wake up to reality and take a good look at what is already available and accept it. Acceptance can be a bitch sometimes but what else can you do sometimes, right? RIAA, please just move on. This is getting embarrassing.

    1. Re:Good news but still... by Ixitar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey Ray,

      You better be careful. You might be sued for Definition of Character.

  5. Internet in Maine? by russlar · · Score: 5, Funny

    I didn't know TCP-over-moose technology had matured!

    --
    Anybody want my mod points?
  6. Re:Ex parte by nickrout · · Score: 5, Informative

    'Ex parte' does not really mean without notice. Yes it does. It means without notice to the other part[y|ies]. If someone is about to do me a legal wrong (e.g. undermine my house by excavating under my land) and the situation is urgent I may be able to obtain ex parte an injunction to stop them. Becasue the bulldozer is humming outside my house I can get the order urgently. The quid pro quo for getting it without the bulldozer man getting an opportunity to show his side of the case is that I must be scrupulously honest and up front to the judge and provide all relevant evidence, whether it helps me or the other side, and my lawyer must refer the court to any cases or laws which may be against me as well as those that may be for me. ex parte orders are reserved for urgent situations, which is why the judge here said there was no need for an ex parte discovery order as there was no evidence that records were about to be destroyed. Oh and IAAL.
  7. Re:Ex parte by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

    What are the rules about when ex parte orders can be issued? The rule is, what they are doing is totally illegal. In federal practice ex parte relief is only granted as a last resort. In these cases the RIAA lies through its teeth to get the order, falsely saying that the ISP or University will destroy the records if they are given notice of the application. It amazes me that there is any judge in the U.S. who would sign such an order. I think you'll be seeing more and more judges refusing, as news of the RIAA's lies spreads.

    In the University of Oregon, the RIAA conveniently "forgot" to tell the judge that the University had told the RIAA that it had gathered and was preserving the records.

    In the University of New Mexico case, the judge had this to say about the RIAA's "ex parte" request:

    Plaintiffs contend that unless the Court allows ex parte immediate discovery, they will be irreparably harmed. While the Court does not dispute that infringement of a copyright results in harm, it requires a Coleridgian "suspension of disbelief" to accept that the harm is irreparable, especially when monetary damages can cure any alleged violation. On the other hand, the harm related to disclosure of confidential information in a student or faculty member's Internet files can be equally harmful.....Moreover, ex parte proceedings should be the exception, not the rule.


    In the College of William & Mary case the judge just rejected the application outright.
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  8. Re:Losers should pay by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    More specifically, if the prosecutor loses they should have to pay. If the defendant loses, lawyer fees are paid by their respective parties. Wouldn't want the RIAA to have all their cases handed to them for free.

  9. Conscientious Objector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry, but I am a conscientious objector. I do not share music, I refuse to buy any more CDs, instead, I rely on the massive compilation I collected in the 80s and 90s, and in the event that I just HAVE to have the latest Fall Out Boy single, I buy it on iTunes since I have the disposable income. But generally, if it's not on the radio, I refuse to continue to fund the economic terrorists that represent the RIAA and I pretty much eliminate "pop music" from my life as an objection to the RIAAs business practice. In effect, I'm a well-to-do Gen-Xer who votes with my wallet.

    I take issue with this heap o' crap because the RIAA is trying to criminalize MY behaviour. They fight against fair use and try to prevent me from transferring my CD collection to my iPod. They fight to criminalize my sharing" or music between my own media devices... the two tivos and 5 computers I own and share within my home.

    I abhor any and all court cases that imply that all potential "infringers" are guilty until proven innocent, as this represents a stereotypical assumption that the "criminals" are young kids who "rip off" the establishment through their deeds.

    This straw man argument actually DENIES my ability to vote with my wallet, as the courts presume that criminal violations have undermined the RIAAs business, when in fact, my boycott of their goods contributes to their market failure. However, my "voting with my wallet" is misrepresented as a "crime against the RIAA" that has cost them loss of revenue.

    Criminalization of a "loss of revenue" is an undue burden on our society and must not be tolerated.