Slashdot Mirror


Elonex ONE Subnotebook Shows Right Path For Linux

davidmwilliams writes "Whether it was to your taste or not, there's no denying the ASUS Eee Linux subnotebook was a massive sales success. Demand far exceeded initial production so it's not surprising competitor models are on their way. Just like the Eee, the Elonex achieves cost savings by bundling freely redistributable open source software including, of course, the Linux operating system (specifically, Linos 2.6.21). Those who use the Elonex ONE may well understand it uses something called Linux under the hood, but they don't really have to grasp what this means. They don't have to care that the WiFi hardware was carefully chosen to be one of the exclusive few which has supported Linux drivers. They don't need to tamper with the way their family computer is already set up."

177 comments

  1. Year of the Linux Desktop! by Leonard+Fedorov · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "And hence, shall usher in the Year of the Linux Desktop..."

    At least, thats what reading between the lines gave me. Your milage may differ.
    Its a nice idea, but how many of things have said they've managed to bridge the gap?
    I'm not holding my breath.

    1. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no "gap" between Windows and Linux for general use. Windows has more specialty applications that Linux lacks but that is only because it has been around in desktop use (for most people who use Linux we aren't talking about Linus here....) for longer then Linux has. All Linux is lacking is good support pre-installed by most manufacturers, with the EEE, the XO and now this, it seems like Linux can start being installed on more things. The gap is closing with every new computer maker who installs Linux on new computers.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when will we have good games developed for Linux as well? Computers are for games and pr0n and Windows quicks Linux ass (no pun intended) on both...

    3. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by H3g3m0n · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally I think it is fairly safe to consider this the year of the Linux desktop.

      Several million EeePC's where shipped with Linux on them after all, and many other subnote books are planning too.

      Then add into account the exponential Ubuntu user growth and the absolute suckage of Vista.

      I'm not sure exactly what conditions are needed to be officially branded the year of the Linux desktop. Or are we expecting over %50 usage or some astronomical usage jump from %4 to %12 within months. Some kind of Linux singularity similar in concept to a technological singularity where the computers basically just start to install Linux themselves and it spreads virally?

      Then again, perhaps this is just the year of the Linux laptop instead although for many the laptop is their desktop.

      --
      cat /dev/urandom > .sig
    4. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by pdusen · · Score: 1

      No, Developers kick Linux's ass on both. There's a difference.

    5. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by Hieronymus+Howard · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean "Year of the Linux Laptop" ;-)

    6. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now reread that post.

    7. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by spitzak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow! You have demonstrated an unbelievably low level of reading comprehension. Congratulations!

      In case you missed it I will quote the second sentence: "Windows has more specialty applications that Linux lacks but that is only because it has been around in desktop use for longer then Linux has." Now you can argue whether that is true or false, but he directly addressed your question.

    8. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by Glonoinha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ask yourself how many DELL laptops are being shipped with Linux on them, and how many end users will leave the Linux on their new Dell laptop and actually use it regularly.

      The answer will surprise you : almost ALL of them.

      The MediaDirect functionality that's being shipped on every Dell laptop that comes with the media buttons on the front (so the user can play music, DVDs, etc) without booting the system - is running Linux.
      So yea - Linux is out there, and people are using it. Maybe not as originally intended, or to the limits of its ability - but it's definitely being used.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    9. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      More importantly (to me at least), Cedega allows me to play most any Windows API based game I like at this point. As more people use Linux, cooperation to make things like Cedega work well for developers will probably increase too.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    10. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop! by Tim4444 · · Score: 1

      I dunno if i like that. Maybe Linux works best as an esoteric geeky platform. Having all these microsoft defectors around is making it stuffy in here. Why don't you go open a windows?


      --
      Cartmanland is sooo awesome and you can't come!!!
  2. Very interesting by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    I'd like to know what the '300MHz LNX Code 8 Mobile Processor' is. My guess would be a Cortex A8 derivative, but it doesn't specify. I'd be interested to know if the machine can run other operating systems (e.g. OpenBSD). At under £100, it's very tempting to pick one up to play with. 1GB of flash is not very much though, and the only expandability is via USB (no flash cards, unfortunately).

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. What market? by grizdog · · Score: 5, Interesting
    They say they are targeting the education market, "every child should have a laptop", which is great, but isn't there a big market just as a thin interface/word processor? I can think of lots of people who don't play games, and wouldn't need any more than this to satisfy their computing needs, maybe with a bigger monitor at home, maybe not.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the years. It used to be that people who didn't like computers, but had to use them for a few things, avoided Linux like the plague. It may be that these very people are about to embrace it, if it gives them all they want.

    1. Re:What market? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Laptops for every child is a novel goal. It's exciting, because it enables them so many things; hacking for instance.

      Laptops for thin interface and word processor usage. Boring. An allegedly better way to do something people already do.

    2. Re:What market? by chthon · · Score: 1

      My current combination : evilwm + emacs + org-mode + mit/gnu scheme + clisp + LaTeX + bazaar.

      I would really like to have such a small, flat portable. The previous combination now runs fine on a 10 year old 233 PII system with 96 Mb RAM and a 2,5 Gb HDD (software footprint : about 700 Mb).

    3. Re:What market? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, there is. That's why the MacBook Air is selling so well, even though it is under powered and over priced. Computers have come to the point where basic needs are covered by the most basic entry level computers. E-mail, web, word processing, maybe a spread sheet here and there... Any computer can do that quite well, and the OS doesn't really matter that much. I haven't heard of someone buying a "fast" computer because it saves files faster, or renders a web page faster, or spell-checks faster than another. All of these have come to the point where a very basic machine will perceptively do just as well as a screamer.

      The only difference in the market is that people who buy a MacBook Air (me) want something with style, light weight, and easy to lug around. EeePC users are willing to sacrifice the "style" part in exchange for a cheaper machine. Same target, different budget. So with the MBA school, cost is not a problem, but style is. You don't choose Windows for style. For the other school, style is sacrificed for price. You don't choose Windows when it costs a good portion of the cheap machine you want.

      Now that computers are powerful enough that this market segmentation is becoming much clearer, Microsoft will need to either drastically reduce the price to cut-throat levels (meaning it will cut it's own throat, since you can't compete against free), specialize only in high-end application areas and compete against the big boy *NIX vendors exclusively (not very likely), or make a product that is smooth and seamless like MacOS X where cost is much less of an issue (they would have done it if they could). Either way you cut it, MS is in a bad position right now.

      When you think about it, individual purchasers are much less likely to care about the OS. My Mom could care less. $300, does Web, E-mail, Chat, Word Processor. $500, does Web, E-mail, Chat, Word Processor. Which do you choose? They both seem to work equally well, and for average Joe, who is in a 5 year upgrade cycle, the learning curve is the same either way you go.

    4. Re:What market? by setagllib · · Score: 1

      You can replace the machine for the cost of a fancy dinner. I'd say it's time to move on. That hardware is going to fail soon anyway.

      --
      Sam ty sig.
  4. Linos... by Vectronic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just what exactly is Linos? I tried Google, and it gave me nothing useful. (Photphonics, and Industrial software)

    They might get even more publicity and help if they said "It uses Linos, which is based on [insert major distribution]"

    Unless its not based on anything, which would be "cool" but not very well thought through, unless they have a huge Help & Support staff/department.

    1. Re:Linos... by jeiler · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wikipedia is your friend. :)

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    2. Re:Linos... by hansraj · · Score: 3, Informative
      Wikipedia does have an entry about Linos. Unfortunately the whole article is:

      Linos is a proprietary embedded version of Linux used by Aware Electronics in their A-BOOK products[1]. It is also expected to be used in the Elonex ONE. (Emphasis added)

      This doesn't really answer your question and I will add another question to the discussion. Just how come a version of Linux is proprietary? Doesn't proprietary mean that you don't automatically get a license to use and/or distribute the software? This can not be the case with a Linux derivative since GPL v2 (the license of the kernel) allows everyone to use, modify and distribute it.
    3. Re:Linos... by Vectronic · · Score: 1

      Yes it is, and thanx... guess we'll have to wait till some people get there hands on one to find out what its capable of.

      Although according to that sentence at Wikipedia, its proprietary, so that kinda sucks depending on what the TOS/License allows.

    4. Re:Linos... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      While the source code for the kernel is GPL, the kernel doesn't do a whole lot on it's own. They could use the Linux kernel and basic xwindows, kde, or xfce, and load it to the brim with other proprietary software.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    5. Re:Linos... by Night64 · · Score: 1

      Don't you love wikipedia? It was said there that Linos was "a proprietary embedded version of linux"... Proprietary? Version? Oh, ok, it is wikipedia. There, I fixed that for you.

      --
      Grey's Law: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
    6. Re:Linos... by Vectronic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Aslong as the proprietary only applies to distribution, im (somewhat) "ok" with it.

      But if we start hearing about lawsuits and crap because some kid modded his Linos so he could do [whatever], this is not going to help "Linux". Because the articles "Bob Smith sentenced to a $1,000 fine for modding his Linos" just makes people scared of touching their OS.

    7. Re:Linos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This will surely make RMS cry.

    8. Re:Linos... by jeiler · · Score: 1

      Actually I'm also hoping that if a slashdotter gets ahold of Linos and finds out more, they'll also update the WP article. (hint, hint)

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    9. Re:Linos... by jeiler · · Score: 1, Troll
      If RMS wants to see more Linux on the market, he's going to have to get used to people trying to make money from it--and for a lot of people, that means working with some form of proprietary license. If he wants to keep "GLP Purity" as a religious devotion, he can be satisfied that Linux will remain a niche product that a lot of businesses will not support.

      Don't get me wrong--I like Linux, and I support the GPL. But having market share means making compromises.

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    10. Re:Linos... by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      But rms DOESN'T want to see more "linux" on the "market" -- he wants to see more GNU in use. The linux kernel is just a patch-step for him and I think he hates it because its not GNU, its just GPL.

      I suspect that he'll get even more incredulous if and when HURD ever gets finished.

    11. Re:Linos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know much about Linux, but it doesn't take much research to find out that Linos is the name of kernel 2.6.21 of a debian version of Linux, which there is plenty of relevant information about if you check the obvious website. Going straight to the relevant location (Linux in this case) often gives you much more than a Google search. Everybody seems to think that Google is the indisputable God of the Internet and that it knows everything. It doesn't. As for Wikipedia, if you want false, rubbish and biased info on something, just use it. An encyclopedia updated by the average Joe? Mmmmh...
      elonexone.simbeb@googlemail.com (not an anonymous coward)

    12. Re:Linos... by jeiler · · Score: 1

      But rms DOESN'T want to see more "linux" on the "market" -- he wants to see more GNU in use.

      *sigh* I know. And I hate to say it, but GNU won't make a big splash on the market even if the Hurd is ever ready for release.

      Oh, and as for the troll moderation--sorry I kicked your sacred cow. Sacred cows may make the best hamburger, even if their religious devotees scream the loudest.

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    13. Re:Linos... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      If RMS wants to see more Linux on the market, he's going to have to get used to people trying to make money from it--and for a lot of people, that means working with some form of proprietary license.
      So, he should look to the success of *BSD in this market as a model to how GNU software should be licensed? </sarcasm>
      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    14. Re:Linos... by WK2 · · Score: 1

      I've always considered proprietary to mean "specific to a project or company". For example, if you make a game with maps, and you make your own map format instead of using something like tiled or mappy, then that is a proprietary map format. If you design your own scripting language, rather than using python or lua, then that is proprietary. Wesnoth, for example, uses a proprietary format for its maps. Despite being proprietary, it is completely free and open. It's just that no other projects use it.

      It's also worthy of note that the Wikipedia article has since been changed, and no longer refers to Linos as proprietary.

      --
      Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
    15. Re:Linos... by ELProphet · · Score: 1

      Linos (operating system)
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Linos is a embedded distribution of Linux used by Aware Electronics in their A-BOOK products[1]. It is also expected to be used in the Elonex ONE[2]. Ooh! Real helpful!
    16. Re:Linos... by awrowe · · Score: 1

      I think you are wrong. RMS does what he does and did what he did because he personally doesn't see that what he believes should be inalienable rights should be compromised in the name of profit.

      Now you can argue as much as you like about whether he's right or not, but his motives are pretty damn pure.

      You don't have to like him, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't give two tiny shits whether anyone does or doesn't, but if you have even half a brain in your head, you do have to respect him. Not often you see someone focus their beliefs in the way he has.

      --
      A.I. Research. The peculiar science in which we know the question and we know the answer, but can't show the working
    17. Re:Linos... by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      I do respect him. I think he's crazy, but he's made some good stuff.

      The point I was trying to make revolves largely around his disregard for profit motive. To talk about making a splash in the "market" in an economic sense is rather the wrong term when dealing with his stuff.

      Has GNU software impacted the market? Yes. Does he care that it has affected the flow of money? Not really, except insofar as more people have access to free tools.

      its also pretty obvious that he wants his kernel to be at the heart of his os and that is his ultimate goal. its quite obvious that he resents that people call the who system "linux" -- no one here can possibly have not noticed the big stink about saying 'gnu/linux.'

  5. Maybe it's time to try Linux... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If only I could get half the smile David has in TFA, I guess it's time to try Linux.

  6. How we have moved on by Alain+Williams · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Not very long ago we would have fallen off our chairs in disbelief at the choice in Linux powered laptops coming on to the market. We are now starting to greet them with ''Oh, another one.''.

    Unfortunately: this hasn't happened yet (in a big way) in the corporate desktop market. That will happen next year -- as I have been predicting for the last 8 years.

    1. Re:How we have moved on by BrokenHalo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately: this hasn't happened yet (in a big way) in the corporate desktop market. That will happen next year -- as I have been predicting for the last 8 years.

      OK. But that's only because the corporate market hasn't cottoned on to the fact that the rest of the world realised long ago that Windows is still not ready for the desktop, while Linux supports much more hardware "out of the box" and never bluescreens. Though I have to admit that those guys at Apple seem to do a reasonably good job of it, since I'm happily using an ageing iBook G4 right now...

      Seems to me that the only possible use for a Windows box these days is to play games, which by definition sort of implies that it is (still) not for serious users.

      Cue flamethrowers...

    2. Re:How we have moved on by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 0

      Mind you, I use Linux. I write OSS code. And I'll still say you're an idiot.

      I have not seen a single bluescreen on Windows XP that wasn't related to hardware problems. Those same bluescreens caused kernel panics on Linux.

      Linux supports more hardware out of the box, but supports much of it poorly. While you often need drivers on Windows, the drivers tend to be of much higher quality. Don't start whining "well, the hardware guys should open their spec"--that's irrelevant, it's an excuse, and no user gives a shit about excuses.

      Windows also has better applications in general--and most of the good OSS stuff has freeware equivalents on Windows, if the stuff isn't directly ported! OpenOffice, The GIMP (oh, wait, we're talking about good applications, my bad)...the list is pretty long. The Linux UI is still bad; even KDE, the best of the lot, has a bunch of sharp edges out there and the difference between Qt and GTK applications is enough to confuse and piss off a lot of people.

      Windows is also generally easier to administer. Linux is more powerful, but most folks don't need that power. Even on a desktop system (remember, they're going to have hundreds of these), it's easier for most sysadmins to manage Windows clients, too.

      And since Windows comes by default with just about all the computers out there (making its effective cost $0, and don't bother boring anyone with the "Windows tax" blather), nobody has a good reason to switch.

      Stop trashing Windows and make Linux better, and you'll see improvements in usage. The corporate market is arguably a lot smarter than you. They know what works well for them. If it didn't work acceptably compared to the alternatives, they'd switch.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    3. Re:How we have moved on by njh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a certain amount of "nobody got fired for buying IBM" in the corporate world which results in inertia.

    4. Re:How we have moved on by rishistar · · Score: 1

      Not very long ago we would have fallen off our chairs in disbelief at the choice in Linux powered laptops coming on to the market.

      That would actually be Steve Ballmer pulling them out from under us, before battering our poor helpless bodies.

      --
      Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
    5. Re:How we have moved on by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But that's only because the corporate market hasn't cottoned on to the fact that the rest of the world realised long ago that Windows is still not ready for the desktop, while Linux supports much more hardware "out of the box" and never bluescreens. Windows is still more ready for the 2008 gaming PC than Linux. As I understand it, Windows supports more 3D video cards in 2008 home PCs, more sound cards in 2008 home PCs, and more Wi-Fi cards in 2008 home PCs.
    6. Re:How we have moved on by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      I have not seen a single bluescreen on Windows XP that wasn't related to hardware problems. Well, duh- bluescreens only occur when drivers misbehave. Any reasonably competent XP admin would know that, so either you were playing verbal slight of hand, or you didn't know what you were talking about.

      Those same bluescreens caused kernel panics on Linux. I call BS. The odds of the same piece of hardware having two different drivers written for different operating systems with the same flaw are remote, to say the least. Name your hardware and driver versions.
      Skipping past the parts of your screed that are just your random opinion, your statement about the Windows tax amazes me, and not in a good way. For somebody who claims to understand how businesses make decisions, it is pretty clear that you don't understand that when you add cost at one point in a supply chain, you increase the final cost of the product. It may be "boring", but you're a fool if you don't see its impact.
    7. Re:How we have moved on by mrwolf007 · · Score: 1

      Mind you, I use Linux. I write OSS code. And I'll still say you're an idiot.
      Well, i use Linux and write oss as well.
      But i have a different opinion anway.

      I have not seen a single bluescreen on Windows XP that wasn't related to hardware problems. Those same bluescreens caused kernel panics on Linux.
      I repair such boxes on a daily basis. 90% of the reproducable blue screens are software problems. Period.
      I dont have time to check every cause, but i usually boils down to

      Buggy drivers (a lot more common than you seem to think)
      Malware and virus-infections
      OSI layer 8 configuration problems
    8. Re:How we have moved on by 2short · · Score: 1

      I assume most of the corporate world is much like where I work:

          They buy from big mainstream hardware vendors (Dell) so supporting "much more hardware" is completely irrelevant. XP never bluescreens for us because bluescreens on XP are due to hardware problems, which again, we don't have because we buy new boring Dells.

          And then there are a handful of must-have apps that are Windows only.

      I use and enjoy Linux, but I can certainly see why my employers desktop IT guy doesn't push it.

    9. Re:How we have moved on by arivanov · · Score: 1

      Probably correct for a single standalone machine, definitely incorrect for anything from 5 to 500, probably correct again for 500+.

      Even with AD+loads of third party software Windows has a higher SMB maintenance overhead than a correctly set-up system of linux clients using NIS+autofs.

      This becomes especially prominent when dealing with hardware failures. If a machine fails under Windows your only choice is to tell the user to wait until you build him one and personalise it which even if you regularly backup and ghost them takes time. Compared to that in a correctly managed NIS+autofs or LDAP+autofs environment you just point the user to an unused linux machine he sits down and it loads all of his settings, software and works.

      Once again - this is for correctly installed and managed Windows and Linux installations with up to 500 machines. Most admins out there do not have a clue how to manage either one of them

      Once you get into the realm of 500+ it all becomes a matter of choice. If the admin team is a bunch of imbeciles who would like to manage the network "flat" and have all clients identical in a 500+ client environment your choice is between Windows and Windows. If the network is departamentalised Linux again starts to shine. It is simply a better system for an enterprise environment in the 5-500 user/workstation range. This is once again - if you know how to set it up. If you do not, nothing will help you.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    10. Re:How we have moved on by arivanov · · Score: 1

      OSI layer 8 configuration problems Is this a new name for PEBKAC?

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    11. Re:How we have moved on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He did say Corporate market didn't he?

    12. Re:How we have moved on by mrwolf007 · · Score: 1

      No,
      its a really old name.

      Now get off my lawn, kid.

    13. Re:How we have moved on by masinick · · Score: 1

      There is a certain amount of "nobody got fired for buying IBM" in the corporate world which results in inertia. That is most certainly true. However, when the combinations of reliability, stability, security, and cost effectiveness can be not only demonstrated, but well packaged - maybe even by IBM - that kind of perception can change in a hurry.

      I do not see such a change being initiated in the US corporate world. However, if a foreign competitor develops a great advantage, particularly if it undercuts and outsells an US opponent, or if a third world country starts grabbing business from major international enterprises, that is the kind of momentum shifter that could change these perceptions - cost savings and market retention can - and just may - be the forces that cause industry to move on to something different.

      No guarantee that it will happen, but at the very least, I expect Linux inertia to cause existing products to compete more effectively. If they don't, Linux really will get the inertia that it has lacked.

      --
      Brian Masinick, masinick at yahoo dot com Linux
    14. Re:How we have moved on by tepples · · Score: 1

      He did say Corporate market didn't he? Video game studios are also corporations, and so are companies whose engineers use CAD software.
    15. Re:How we have moved on by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I wasn't even going to raise these issues in my supposedly "idiotic" post, but you've done it for me.

      I might add a remark re the kernel panics, however. I've been using Linux nearly exclusively since ~1995, and the only times I have ever seen a kernel panic in these 13 years are when I have done something stupid like forgetting to build in support for my root filesystem. If this guy really claims XP is comparable in stability, then he is either a liar or even more idiotic than I am.

    16. Re:How we have moved on by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Well, the conversation has now devolved into a debate on whether the Microsoft tax even exists *rolls eyes*, so, yeah... he's not the brightest crayon in the box.

  7. Elonex ONE by lobiusmoop · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apparently the Elonex ONE is just a rebranded version of this system, i.e. a digital photoframe with a keyboard/mouse and wifi grafted on (which is how they manage to keep the cost down).

    --
    "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
    1. Re:Elonex ONE by Vectronic · · Score: 1

      Indeed it does, and if I had to choose, I would choose that one, simply for the 800x480 display, which seems to be running at the same aspect ratio, if the Elonex has the same screen running at 640x480, no thanx... and because that article has pictures of it...

    2. Re:Elonex ONE by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I don't know where TFA got the 640x480 from - the Elonex site says 800x480.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Elonex ONE by dominux · · Score: 1

      it does actually have the 800x480 screen. It is quite good, nice and bright, but behind a fairly thick perspex covering so it isn't particularly delicate.

  8. the OS means less these days by kurt555gs · · Score: 1

    For business and school use, Google Docs, etc are betting o be so good, that the only thing that really matters is having Firefox, and a good WiFi link to the internet.

    Expand on that, get your own domain, and Google Apps let you expand on that and manage quite complex projects.

    You may still need a Windows machine to use some application specific software, but carrying one of thesse or the Eee really can solve so many of your mibile needs, that like I said, the OS just doesnt matter.

    Cheers

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
    1. Re:the OS means less these days by magus_melchior · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As long as Excel and Word macros are ubiquitously used and locked tightly (not to mention the piles of features built into both apps), Google Docs will have a very hard time prying open Microsoft Office's dominance. Businesses are so dependent on them, in fact, that it would be much more feasible and secure for them to tunnel VNC/Remote Desktop sessions through SSH or VPN and run software off a central application server.

      Of course, the client machine doesn't need to be Windows, so herein is a tremendous opportunity for Linux subnotebooks. Configure the client distro to use as much physical RAM as possible, and let your mobile users run everything inside VNC. No need to download files to the laptop, where you can have data leaks.

      Other than a small screen, the fact that you'll still buy a pile of Windows Server and Office CALs, and possibly crummy 'net access, I can't see much to complain about this scenario. I'll leave it up to someone else to set me straight Car Talk style. Here, I'll start it for you: "You knucklehead..."

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
    2. Re:the OS means less these days by cp.tar · · Score: 1

      As long as Excel and Word macros are ubiquitously used and locked tightly (not to mention the piles of features built into both apps), Google Docs will have a very hard time prying open Microsoft Office's dominance. Businesses are so dependent on them, in fact, that it would be much more feasible and secure for them to tunnel VNC/Remote Desktop sessions through SSH or VPN and run software off a central application server.

      You mean, all the VBA macros in older versions of MS Office, which will not work in new versions of MS Office, but will in OpenOffice.org?
      Just asking, since I heard somewhere that OO.o is the basis for Google Docs...

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    3. Re:the OS means less these days by hitmark · · Score: 1

      bah, the percentage that actually make use of the majority of the features of the ms office apps are a minority.

      some may use a subset, the rest just use them as glorified notepads and calculators. and for those uses the google apps, abiword and gnumeric, openoffice, koffice or any other similar set of apps are just as able to get the job done.

      whats more important at that point is file format support.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    4. Re:the OS means less these days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as Excel and Word macros are ubiquitously used and locked tightly (not to mention the piles of features built into both apps), Google Docs will have a very hard time prying open Microsoft Office's dominance.
      But Google Docs isn't the only game in town. OpenOffice.org already supports Excel and Word macros to some extent, and that will only improve with time: it's a stationary target, since Microsoft has now for many years avoided adding any new features to VBA as a matter of policy.
  9. Point of inflection by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Catastrophe theory etc.

    --
    Deleted
  10. Hideous design anyone? by bgfay · · Score: 1

    Two caveats: one, I have an Eee so I'm biased that way, and two, I have only looked at the Elonex site for about thirty seconds. But that thing is ugly! It looks like it would flop over on its top-heavy back all the time. Why is everything in the screen instead of under the keyboard? Is it to keep the heat off of little boys and girls baby producing parts?

    That thing just looks weird.

    --
    Yeah, I'm as old as my UID would suggest.
    1. Re:Hideous design anyone? by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How many laptops have you seen rendered useless because the connection between the screen and the rest of the machine snapped? I can guarantee you this one won't be.

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    2. Re:Hideous design anyone? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      Two caveats: one, I have an Eee so I'm biased that way, and two, I have only looked at the Elonex site for about thirty seconds. But that thing is ugly! Well, yeah, but it's just over half the price of the cheapest Eee PC (in the UK anyway), so it's hardly a fair comparison.

      Yeah, I agree that it's not pretty, but for a hundred quid, you really *shouldn't* be expecting MacBook-shaming industrial design prettiness. It's aimed at kids, for ****'s sake!
      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    3. Re:Hideous design anyone? by dominux · · Score: 1

      it does have a hinge but that is on the keyboard unit, which is basically disposable. Probably costs about 5-10 quid for a replacement keyboard.

    4. Re:Hideous design anyone? by hitmark · · Score: 1

      and built to survive.

      the keyboard is a membrane system thats virtually spill proof. rather then a touch screen it has a oversized nub and two mouse button on the back of the screen, similar to whats found on the keyboard itself.

      and while its not shown on any of the elonex images, there is a built in stand at the back to support the extra weight.

      yes, this means that the keyboard most likely cant be used while on the go. or even in a lap...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  11. Crippled by 7" 640x480 screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until they start shipping at least 1024x768 10" screens, this will not truly take off. Wait till next year.

    1. Re:Crippled by 7" 640x480 screen by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      It's 800x480, champ. On a 7" screen, that's not bad. Also take into account how cheap the thing is.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    2. Re:Crippled by 7" 640x480 screen by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Until they start shipping at least 1024x768 10" screens, this will not truly take off. Wait till next year.

      Next week friend, next week. The anticipation is killing me.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  12. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't need to tamper with the way their family computer is already set up. You acknowledge that the computer is mine yet you describe my fooling around with it as 'tampering'?

    If you feel this way, why bother using FOSS?
  13. Didn't Elonex Go Bust? by Temeraire · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought Elonex (i.e. the north London PC makers we once bought from) went bust and were then bought from administration by someone else. Nothing wrong with that, except that New Elonex was reported in the press to be refusing to honour Old Elonex's warranties on the grounds that they were a different legal entity. Nothing illegal in that, but New Elonex's web site gives the impression of business continuity.
        Could we perhaps ask New Elonex to clarify this point? Are they as honourable a business as we would all like to believe? The world is a bit too full of dodgy phoenix companies for my liking.

    1. Re:Didn't Elonex Go Bust? by Dogtanian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, since they bought the name, they probably want to benefit from the recognition of the old company, so they're not going to play up the fact that they're a legally different entity.

      Brands are in truth increasingly meaningless these days. Take Polaroid for example. The original company went bankrupt a few years back, and the current "Polaroid" is a legally separate company that took over their business and the name. With the exception of film cameras (which they continued for a while, but I believe they've stopped doing now), almost all "Polaroid" products are made by third-party companies who've licensed the name and slapped it on some cheapass LCD TVs (or whatever) in an attempt to trade off the reputation of and goodwill towards the original Polaroid.

      In other words, "Polaroid" is totally meaningless as a brand (in the traditional sense) nowadays.

      What I don't understand is companies taking over names like "Time Computers". For those who don't know, Time are a UK company that's gone bankrupt and had its name bought at least twice, despite having a really manky reputation in all its incarnations. I guess that "brand recognition" has some value, no matter how bad the associations with that brand are.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    2. Re:Didn't Elonex Go Bust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm. Just been reading their site. Claims that the company was founded in 1986, and that they are responsible for all of their history. To me that contradicts a stance where they refuse to honour old warranties.

      I wonder if this sort of thing will be swept up by the new UK consumer protection regulations (statutory instrument 1277), which are meant to outlaw deceptive practices.

  14. Article has errors in it by rcb1974 · · Score: 3, Informative
    From TFA:

    "Just like the Eee, the Elonex achieves cost savings by bundling freely redistributable open source software including, of course, the Linux operating system (specifically, Linos 2.6.21)"

    Linux is just the kernel, GNU is the operating system.

    From TFA:

    "Unlike the Eee, however, the native resolution is a more regular (though narrower) 640x480 instead of the bizarre 640x400 ASUS offer."

    This is false. I own the Asus Eee PC 701. It has a resolution of 800x480, not "640x400".

    From TFA:

    "Now, returning to hardware, although I commented on how much the ONE seems reminiscent of the Eee there are some differences. I already mentioned the resolution which while taller is narrower."

    Again, this is false.
    1. Re:Article has errors in it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From TFA:

      "Just like the Eee, the Elonex achieves cost savings by bundling freely redistributable open source software including, of course, the Linux operating system (specifically, Linos 2.6.21)"

      Linux is just the kernel, GNU is the operating system.



      Xoohh... Go away Professor Stalman!
    2. Re:Article has errors in it by nguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Linux is just the kernel, GNU is the operating system.

      GNU is just a bunch of command line utilities. According to the literal meaning, there is no more justification for calling it the "GNU operating system" than the "Linux operating system".

      But, as any non-autistic person understands, language isn't limited to literal meanings anyway. Calling it the "Linux operating system" is an example of metonymy and is quite reasonable.

      And, as such things go, it will probably still be called Linux long after the Linux kernel has been replaced by something better.

    3. Re:Article has errors in it by iabervon · · Score: 1

      If they're actually using an embedded distribution, it's not too unlikely that it doesn't have the usual GNU software on it at all. They could go with newlib, busybox, and dash, and not include a native build environment, and it would be hard to argue that it's a GNU system at all. GNU stuff in that layer is really nice for interactive use, but if your scripts are all POSIX and you don't expect people to work on the system from inside, you can cut out a huge amount of space that goes to making things that won't matter nice.

    4. Re:Article has errors in it by hitmark · · Score: 1

      i dont think there really exist a set in stone definition of a operating system.

      at best the first incarnation was just a couple of extra punch cards that was made generic enough to get the hardware up and ready for whatever cards followed them.

      all in all, the kernel and the user space apps work in symbiosis. without one, the other is useless...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    5. Re:Article has errors in it by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      Linux is just the kernel, GNU is the operating system.
      Nope; the GNU operating system's kernel is the HURD. RMS and his disciples refer to the hybrid platform consisting of the Linux kernel and the GNU userland as "GNU/Linux".

      But that's irrelevant: in the real world, language is defined by the way people actually use it, not by the way religious leaders decree it should be used -- and in real-world usage, Linux is the operating system and GNU is an esoteric collection of scary command-line utilities.
    6. Re:Article has errors in it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the more reason why one can call what is shipping on the One or on the Eee "Linux".

    7. Re:Article has errors in it by ja · · Score: 1

      Isn't Linux already replacing itself with something better on a continous basis?

      --

      send + more == money? ...
  15. A solid company created distro could be the ticket by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    However, it won't be Elonex. Asus is my personal bet for the one company to take Linux to the true desktop. They have the advantage of being both hardware mfr. and Linux developers, they have great stuff from Apple using them as their vendor.

    Linux has needed a single, unified, vision from the beginning to get past all o fthe choice/freedom crap and get on to a unified UI, a solid look and feel, and most importantly ONE of everything that is best in class and 100% working by default. Since the OSS community will never agree to do this, a company is my only hope (as sad as that is). I'm wishing ASUS nothing but luck.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  16. Commoditization of Complements by $random_var · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As Joel wrote, a good business strategy is to drive the price of the complements of your product down to commodity levels. Decreasing the cost of operating systems will make laptops more profitable, so a lot of the companies entering the subnotebook field will be stimulating linux (and other open source) development. We've already seen this from VIA; I can't wait to see if some big US brands start openly supporting linux development.

    1. Re:Commoditization of Complements by hitmark · · Score: 1

      heh, what asus did with the eeepc was to basically pull the rug under the established laptop brands out there that had their products hover around more or less the same price, but with a feature set update ever so often.

      that is the other way of getting people to buy. new bling at same cost. it also represents a bigger income pool pr unit sold then going for commodity...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  17. Yeah, that damn CPU- why all the secrecy? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Re: the CPU question.... I agree, I was going to say the same thing, but my connection is playing up.

    I first heard of the Elonex ONE via Slashdot on a roundup of the Eee PC's rivals. It looked interesting, and I might have considered pre-ordering one, but there was bugger all concrete detail about the CPU.

    Looking at the website now, it doesn't seem to give much (if any) more information than what was available back then. It states that they're using an "LNX [Elonex, geddit?!] Code 8 300MHz Mobile Processor", but that's meaningless because it's almost certainly someone else's rebadged CPU (*) So why all the secrecy when it's near launch?

    I've heard rumours and suchlike, but nothing concrete, and nothing from the horse's mouth. They won't even state if it's an x86-compatible, or what that 300MHz speed is comparable to in practice. What have they got to hide?

    (*) There's *no* way that a company the size of Elonex could- or would- create their own chip to rival those available from the major companies. Even if it was possible, it wouldn't be remotely cost-effective. In fact, IIRC the Elonex ONE is itself essentially a rebadged machine.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    1. Re:Yeah, that damn CPU- why all the secrecy? by dominux · · Score: 2, Informative

      it is a VIA chip. x86 compatible. No, I don't get the code name thing either.

    2. Re:Yeah, that damn CPU- why all the secrecy? by Sique · · Score: 1

      Probably modified to Elonex' specs.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:Yeah, that damn CPU- why all the secrecy? by arivanov · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thanks for the info. This sounds plausible as Elonex has a history of shipping Via based kit and hiding the bleeding obvious behind marketing bollocks.

      This puts the One more or less in the right frame. Assuming this is C3, model 8 of C3 is a fairly low on the pecking order. Model 7 is classic Eden with no AES. Dunno what is model 8 is as I have only 8 and 10+ around the house, but it is likely to be more of an Eden than C7. 300MHz is lower than what is usually used for fanless Via Thin clients (400 for the HP based ones), but not entirely out of whack.

      If it is Via at 300 MHz it can just about load a non-OO wordprocessor and be used as a general purpose typewriter, mp3 player and a note taking machine. By the time it has loaded a modern OpenOffice install you might as well go to the coffee shop and come back. Older Via CPUs need at least 1GHz to play MPEG2 video so this is out of the question as well. It will however have an excellent power consumption. I would not be surprised if it manages sub-3W for the CPU. If Via has fixed the errata for their DMA when changing CPU frequency it can also throttle even further to around 200 or less.

      Overall, IMO this is probably too under-spec for a sublaptop. I would not buy it for that purpose. It is however a very reasonable spec for a machine to run specialised education software and/or a machine to run lab automation. In fact if I have to do lab automation again this looks like a perfect choice (with the splash-proof keyboard).

      Oh, and this is definitely a linux only project. Even W2K will struggle on this one. 300MHz pre-P3-like CPU is too low for anything but linux.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    4. Re:Yeah, that damn CPU- why all the secrecy? by kl76 · · Score: 1

      Word on the street (or at least Wikipedia) is that the CPU is an "Aday-5F" made by Aday Technology - their previous Aday-5E was a 150 MHz "Super486". No, it doesn't sound like it's going to be fast :-)

  18. In a tossup between the EeePC and the One by SurlyToad · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Eee wins.

    I considered the Elonex One for all of 5 minutes before rejecting it. Ok, I paid twice as much for my Eee, but it doesn't look like an ugly botched abortion with an even more obscure "version" of Linux than Xandros. And the overall spec of the Eee is light years above the One.

    I've installed Xampp on the Eee with no problems and it makes a curiously engaging development and demonstration platform. I'd hate to try THAT with the One!

    1. Re:In a tossup between the EeePC and the One by Hieronymus+Howard · · Score: 1

      The Elonex is aimed mainly at kids and the educational market. It's not really designed for Linux geeks.

      Given the success of the Eee, I confidently expect many more small Linux-based sub-notebooks to be launched in the next few months and years.

    2. Re:In a tossup between the EeePC and the One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never understood people trying to compare the eee pc to the Elonex one. It's just not relevant. Not the same target public, not the same use, hardware is not even similar, prices are nowhere near comparable. We might just as well compare a Porshe 911 and a Ford Focus...
      elonexone.simbeb@gmail.com

    3. Re:In a tossup between the EeePC and the One by lysse · · Score: 1

      If you only have £100 spare, then the ONE wins by default; whilst you could get a "proper", much higher spec'd, second-hand laptop for that money, you'd almost certainly end up lashing out £50 or so on a new battery straight away.

    4. Re:In a tossup between the EeePC and the One by timbo234 · · Score: 1

      Ok, I paid twice as much for my Eee, but it doesn't look like an ugly botched abortion with an even more obscure "version" of Linux than Xandros

      Even better Mandriva already supports the Eee for their distro, no doubt the other major distros will follow suit soon

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
  19. When a 'human' distro will be used? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's up with all of these little-known distros taking up the space? Why don't the put something like Ubuntu/OpenSUSE/Fedora on the thing?

    1. Re:When a 'human' distro will be used? by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      Because those are very large distros, and customizing them is not terribly easy.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    2. Re:When a 'human' distro will be used? by fantomas · · Score: 1

      Check the wiki.eeeuser.com pages. Lots of folks have run larger (as in disk drive size) distros on their mini laptops. Issue as another poster notes is they aren't optimised and come with too many extra tools and guff. No point installing a thousand apps by default just because you can on a minilaptop which is pushed for space.

    3. Re:When a 'human' distro will be used? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Ubuntu JeOS isn't bad for customizing, and neither is Debian Netinst.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    4. Re:When a 'human' distro will be used? by nguy · · Score: 1

      Ubuntu and SuSE work great on the Eee PC and the HP 2133; there is no need to strip them down. If you do want something slightly simpler, you can install Xubuntu.

    5. Re:When a 'human' distro will be used? by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      I use Debian netinst on my own machines. I don't disagree, but it's still awfully gnarly, with a lot of cruft (and dependencies which can break--bad but not terrible on a desktop, game-breaking on a consumer "toy" computer like this). Easier in a lot of ways to construct your own.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  20. it is Xandros by dominux · · Score: 1

    not quite sure why it was referred to as Linos, but I think that was an error.

    1. Re:it is Xandros by Nimey · · Score: 2

      [citation needed]

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:it is Xandros by dominux · · Score: 2, Informative

      the pre-production model that I borrowed for a week, and was shown at the Education show in Birmingham UK had Xandros on it. Sorry, this is original research, I can't cite anything.

    3. Re:it is Xandros by dominux · · Score: 1

      on reflection I can cite myself here where I said inaccurately that it was based on an AMD processor (it is a VIA I think) and I said it was based on Debian, which is half true, it is Xandros which is in turn based on Debian.

    4. Re:it is Xandros by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Not a very good cite, since you're 1) quoting yourself, and 2) you got some of the facts wrong.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    5. Re:it is Xandros by dominux · · Score: 1

      It is perhaps the worse cite in the whole history of dubiously sourced facts. I have in fact now confused myself, I could have sworn it was a VIA until I re-read my own article stating it was AMD, now I am not so sure. Next time I get my hands on one I will cat /proc/cpuinfo and let you know what it thinks it has.

  21. fear of lawsuit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is worth noting that an instruction set itself can not be copywriten, but some companies have sued small startups (MIPS technologies and Lexra) to bankruptcy on this issue. I personally think it is a chinese MIPS compatible processor in there, and they don't want to use the trademarked? MIPS title and don't know what else to call it. It would be nice if it was a Cortex A8, which could be overclocked quite well :)

    1. Re:fear of lawsuit? by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      That was over patent issues. MIPS technologies had a patent on handling unaligned memory access. To implement a compatible MIPS processor you need to implement this required a license from MIPS technologies.

      Thing is the patent is now expired. You can go nuts implementing a MIPS compatible processor without paying a penny to anyone.

  22. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Linux has needed a single, unified, vision from the beginning to get past all o fthe choice/freedom crap and get on to a unified UI, a solid look and feel, and most importantly ONE of everything that is best in class and 100% working by default. Since the OSS community will never agree to do this, a company is my only hope (as sad as that is). I'm wishing ASUS nothing but luck.

    Fair enough, in a way I sort of agree, in the sense that Linux might be seen as a competitor to Windows as a marketable item. However, a strength of Linux (OK, and the BSDs too) is the customisability of the interface(s), since neither Microsoft nor Apple seem to care much about this. By now, the bigger players in the UI scene (i.e Gnome and KDE) have pretty much got their act together, and their products work at least as well as their proprietary counterparts.

    The last thing Linux users need is to be squeezed into a proprietary box. We've seen enough of that already.

  23. indeed, lots of errors by dominux · · Score: 1

    both the eeePC and Elonex One have 800x480 and you are right about the operating system, I think the Linos thing was an early missprint and it has been repeated and repeated. It is a kernel version number (which means very little to the target audience of the marketing material) the operating system is a custom Xandros, just like the eeePC (although Xandros on eeePC was customised for Asus and Xandros on One was customised for Elonex so don't expect them to be identical).

  24. Removable keyboard is nice by emj · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Elonex has a removable keyboard, even though the lack of touch screen makes it less usefull. I really want to have one of these with out keyboard, because of the small form factor the keyboard becomes alot more conspicuous.

    I've been using small Laptops since 2000 and the keyboard has always been an issue. Sure 90% of the time it doesn't matter, but sometimes it really is helpful to remove the keyboard.

    1. Re:Removable keyboard is nice by hitmark · · Score: 2, Interesting

      while no touch screen, there is a nub and button on the back that makes it ideal for holding with the right or both hands and operate that way.

      one finger on the nub, two others on the buttons.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  25. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    But at some point customization and freedom have to take a back seat to "good enough." It's fine to then take that solid foundation and open it up for people to tweak, change, build upon, streamline, extend, etc... but let's have that one solid base.

    I used to have all the time in the world to tinker and tweak, and then the realization that I end up spending most of my time computing tweaking and tuning and NOT actually doing anything. I've been with Linux for over 12 years now, I wish it success but I think the community is misguided.

    Why Linus and others constantly state that chaos is good, yet the kernel is presided over and shaped and guided with one vision and goal... and everything else is supposed to magically align for greatness is beyond me. It needs to be treated as a complete package not just a kernel any more.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  26. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by budword · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Linux is not for everyone. If you want EXACTLY one of everything and a lack of choices because you don't want to be confused, perhaps you should stay with windows. There is a market for a fisherprice OS, and it is you. The strength of Linux is Freedom and Choice. Stick with windows, you'll be happier, you want mind the lack of Freedom, or being force fed some corporations idea of what you need on your computer.

  27. varporware by emj · · Score: 2, Informative

    Though we haven't seen an updated to Elonex shopping page since march...

  28. wrong link by emj · · Score: 1
  29. Re:How to Become a Household Commodity by CrazedWalrus · · Score: 2, Informative

    As opposed to the wide variety of wireless drivers that Windows supports out-of-the-box without manufacturer software?

    Hint: MS doesn't write wireless drivers, the manufacturers do. The fact that Linux has native, non-manufacturer drivers at all speaks well for it.

    Linux is different for the sake of being better.

    I love the smell of troll food in the morning.

  30. Yep, and see also Aware Electronics page... by Fallen+Andy · · Score: 1
    here.A quick look in Wikipedia turned up a blank for the processor module see here. No luck trawling for the ADay-5F module with Google either...

    Andy

    1. Re:Yep, and see also Aware Electronics page... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I think it is assume it is similar to this one,since it is the same company. And since they seem to prefer the older chip designs,300Mhz would make it a P2?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    2. Re:Yep, and see also Aware Electronics page... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I think it is assume it is similar to this one,since it is the same company. And since they seem to prefer the older chip designs,300Mhz would make it a P2? Not necessarily. The other module seems to use a "Super486" at 150Mhz. Which is probably a UMC 486 core with a bunch of custom hardware and bigger caches. But a 486 with a 16KB cache at 300Mhz will pretty much suck running anything modern. You have more processing power in your cellphone.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  31. There is nothing in the article which is news by dominux · · Score: 1

    well, nothing that couldn't have been written on March 1st at any rate. In fact I did write an article about the Elonex One, and the OLPC XO and the EeePC on March 1st, I don't know if it is a better article, I am of course not a professional journalist, but I did at least make an effort to check the facts and actually did have a unit to look at. The ITWire article is just poorly regurgitating some publicly available specifications.

  32. You are WRONG!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux is just the kernel, GNU is the operating system.

    Wrong, GNU is not the operating system here. Linux is the operating system, with a set of programs and utilities running on it. Some of these auxiliary programs and utilities do belong to the GNU software collection, it's true, but they are not enough to OPERATE the SYSTEM with, get it?


    However, if you want a *true* "GNU operating system" you'll have to use the Hurd. Good luck...

  33. Re:FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dear AC,

    You're just a wannabe who couldn't post a real GNAA troll is his life depended on it.

    1. A real GNAA post takes the form of a press release, which is used to parody a recent issue in the news - it works best if it's recently been the subject of a story on /.. An example might be one entitled GNAA Announces Website Partnership with Barak Hosni Mubarak Saddam Hussein Obama Campaign and purporting to bear news of an agreement to allow the Obama campaign to use GNAA's botnet (triggered by Last Measure, which is to replace the current Obama Campaign home page) to inject Hillary "God, I wish I'd married a real man like Anal Cox" Clitdong and John MacOSXPain (and all their heterosexually brainwashed followers) with Holy Gay Nigger Seed via the intarwebs, etc., etc.

    2. A successful GNAA post is a first post that's posted non-anonymously.

    All you've done is post (most of) the standard GNAA coda as an AC, which is pathetic. It's not like there aren't heaps of examples at gnaa.us to get you started.

    Have you even watched the movie? Geez.

  34. The eightfold subnotebook by m0llusk · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wisdom
    Right display and memory
    Right system and applications

    Ethical conduct
    Right patching
    Right networking
    Right configuration

    Concentration
    Right keys and touchpad
    Right backups
    Right clamshell hibernate

  35. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    Wow, how terribly insightful. YOU are exactly what is wrong with Linux. *I* don't need a fancy OS. I live and work daily in some of the most cryptic operating systems made. I work in low level, I have contributed more to open source than you could hope to. It is people like you and your mentality that deserve to fail and to flounder on another 12 years treading water rather than pushing ahead.

    *I* don't need one of everything, Linux does... and even then just out of the box. No one said there can't be choice and 40 half-assed versions of the same app available... but straight away there should be a decided upon set default system which includes one of each. Why exactly do I need 12 text editors on a default install? Imagine for a minute if Windows shipped with 12 text editors and 6 video players, and on and on as Linux does... it would be ridiculous and a waste of space and resources.

    But it's Linux so I should give it a pass lest I be labeled a simpleton. Wake the fuck up.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  36. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by Jorophose · · Score: 3, Insightful

    both hardware mfr. and Linux developers
    Yes, but their hardware quality, especially in comparaison to Gigabyte (by itself it's fine), has been in a rather harsh decline since the launch of S775/AM2.

    Oh, they don't develop anything Linux/GPL IIRC. The linux distro on the eeePC is outsourced to Xandros, a shoddy company that puts my city's already crappy tech sector to shame. They were also one of the companies that signed a deal with MS, another reason to avoid them (Novell's turned out to be not too bad, the ones following it however were a lot worse).

    Still, I love the eeePC, because it was the first and the only subnotebook to be under 400$ and released to the "general market", something MSI, Dell, and HP have missed.

    Apple using them as their vendor
    Apple uses Foxconn parts.

    Linux has needed a single, unified, vision from the beginning
    I would like to direct you to kernel.org :)

    That said, really, there is no need for a unified Linux distro. Almost everything is "unified". The only thing that really differs amongst distro packagers are slight kernel modifications, small lib changes (basically things that would make an Ubuntu binary not run on Debian), and choice of package managers; even then, only two are relevant; .deb and .rpm.

    get past all o fthe choice/freedom crap
    Why are you using Linux again? Might as well go back to MS/Apple if you have an attitude like that. That's not to say we're all elitists, I even less, but if you don't like the "choice/freedom crap" then you're free to leave you know.

    and get on to a unified UI,
    Why? I freaking hate EDE. I hate gnustep. I hate FLTK. I love GTK. Why should we have a unified UI? All of the major desktops (Xfce, Gnome, KDE) have unified on a set of desktop standards, namely Tango, so there's nothing really non-"unified". Sure, there's different toolkits, but hey buddy:

    http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/microsoft-learn-from-apple-II.media/vista.png (and they've left out non-MS toolkits too!)
    http://bla.st/static/blog/macos_interfaces.gif

    Yeah, good job Apple and MS! We should really be "unified" too! That's what people want! As opposed to two major ones, GTK, QT, and one minor one, FLTK!

    "Linux" looks rather unified to me. Look at how well GTK and QT can play together.

    a solid look and feel,
    Feels solid to me. If you have complaints make 'em verbose & direct so we can fix it.

    and most importantly ONE of everything that is best in class and 100% working by default.
    Yeah, like things on the OSX and Windows side work 100% amirite or amirite? You don't have to install every effing program you know. You're free to use the apps you like, and I'm sure it's in your distro provider's best intentions to give you the nicest experience they can. Otherwise you've got a bad maintainer and should leave.

    Since the OSS community will never agree to do this, a company is my only hope (as sad as that is). I'm wishing ASUS nothing but luck.
    Yeah, like Asus does such a good job; have you ever looked at their xandros desktop? Not exactly farts and sunshine there. I especially like that they mixed IceWM and KDE. That's two toolkits that need to be loaded. Good game, guys.

  37. Time, as in Time Warner? by tepples · · Score: 1

    What I don't understand is companies taking over names like "Time Computers". Might it have anything to do with Time magazine?
    1. Re:Time, as in Time Warner? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Maybe, in the sense that here in the UK the Time/Life brand name is generally associated with cheap tacky compilation CDs "not availale in the shops" and Time Computers is generally associated with cheap tacky computers.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    2. Re:Time, as in Time Warner? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      Might it have anything to do with Time magazine? Not that I've ever heard of, and it's highly unlikely. Their corporate identities aren't anything alike, Time was/is a dodgy family-owned company and besides, it's quite possible for two unrelated companies to have trademarks on the same name if it's being used in different fields.
      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  38. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by specktater · · Score: 1

    If you've really been a Linux user (assuming it has been your main OS) for 12 years, why have you felt the need to spend so much time tinkering and tweaking? Are you constantly switching to the latest and greatest distribution/desktop environment when it's released? I've used Slackware (Blackbox/Fluxbox WM) for the last 10 years and my major tinkering/tweaking days ended before the turn of the century.

    When I get a new PC it takes at most a 2-3 hours (including copying all my personal/configuration data from backup) to install and configure. One of the main reasons I continue to use Linux is because I don't want to spend time tinkering/tweaking the system.

  39. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by budword · · Score: 1

    Wow. Set down the flame thrower and step away buddy. Linux doesn't "need" wide adoption. It doesn't "need" a lack of choice. It doesn't need the easily confused. And a "decided" upon default system ? There is no central authority to "decide" this for Linux. That is it's strength. Even Linus guides the kernel development simply because people who use Linux trust him. You are welcome to fork everything about Linux, and develop your own "decided" upon version, even get people to use their time to code for you. This isn't a weakness of Linux, it is exactly it's strength.

  40. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by DeadChobi · · Score: 1, Troll

    How is this insightful? The guy is basically belittling people for making the choice to stick with Windows. He uses diction which is carefully designed to belittle, like "Fischer Price OS." Not only that, he's basically espousing the antithesis of freedom of choice. Someone who truly believed in freedom and choice would say "that's cool, whatever works for you," and not what essentially amounts to "have fun with your child's toy OS, you neolithic sack baby."

    This is the attitude that was turning people off to Linux in the early '00s.

    --
    SRSLY.
  41. Re:How to Become a Household Commodity by colmore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And users care about that distinction because...?

    Unfortunately, I think there's a big uphill climb in getting people to accept a desktop.

    OS X has gained a respectable amount of traction but there's something that linux evangelists forget:

    In order to grab a mostly disinterested audience, you need to have the desktop stay 90% the same year after year after year.

    It's not the 80s. Folks aren't used to learning a new using environment every time they buy a computer.

    I'm the same, more or less. By doing just about everything I can, except web browsing, on bash, I ensure that when the big leap in whatever interface happens, I can just keep doing things exactly like I have.

    The world was really excited to try out new desktop configurations around 1989. It's old news now and we really just want ot get back to work.

    The linux for the clueless distributions need to settle on a much more consistant presentation.

    --
    In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
  42. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    does it run Linux?

  43. Re:you inse8sitive clod! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Netcraft had warned you, BSD is dying. You did not even have enough time to complete your sentence.

  44. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by fritsd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Linux has needed a single, unified, vision

    Good idea! When will you have it ready for us? :-)

    I'm joking. Linux has developed into an ecosystem, not just a single product, so why reduce it to that?

    The people using Linux on their mobile phones, and those using it on their research supercomputers might disagree with your idea of optimizing it for the desktop only.

    There's room for everyone.

    --
    To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
  45. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

    The poster's use of "Fisher Price OS" may be over the top, but much of the post makes sense. One of everything? So we have to choose between emacs and vi, KDE and GNOME, bash and csh, perl and python, and many others. What may be best for one user might not be best for another. Also, having "redundant" apps may help security/efficiency.

  46. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    Sure there is room, I never threatened that... what I am saying is to get a solid foundation from which to build instead of the nebulous base that currently exists.

    For the life of me I will never understand the complete knee-jerk reaction against this. Build a house sometime on a moving, fluid foundation of concrete... I'll build mine on a nice solid one.

    This isn't a threat to any one distro or platform. All it is is a base choice of WM, text editor, look/feel, UI, libraries, etc. all picked to be the most robust and stable as well as usable right out of the gate. Hell, within each distro there could be two install choices "the standard" or "expert" which allows the current type of install for those who want it.

    This isn't something one person or distro can do, it needs to be universally agreed upon (well, universally enough). I honestly think that once the foundation is laid there will be MORE growth and innovation.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  47. Re:How to Become a Household Commodity by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

    And users care about that distinction because...? The average user does not care. This is partly why Linux hasn't been widely adopted by end users. If they don't care, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'll use what I want to use for whatever reasons I choose, they can use whatever they want to use for whatever reasons they choose.
  48. No, this is the completely wrong path for linux by NotZed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, lets hide all those 'nasty details', like GNU and Linux being Free Software.

    You wouldn't want users knowing they are actually allowed to modify or copy all of the software with no cost or legal problems. Lets hide all those details for those silly overweight four-eye geek types to worry about.

    Absolutely disgraceful.

    --
    _ // `Thinking is an exercise to which all too few brains
    \\/ are accustomed' - First Lensman
  49. Trialware subsidizes Windows by tepples · · Score: 1

    For somebody who claims to understand how businesses make decisions, it is pretty clear that you don't understand that when you add cost at one point in a supply chain, you increase the final cost of the product. Not if publishers of proprietary software pay the major OEMs to install trial versions on new the machines. Notably, one has to pay Sony $50 not to install trialware. At that price, I'm guessing that the trialware completely subsidizes the cost of a Windows OEM license. PCs with GNU/Linux are no cheaper than PCs with Windows in part ecause trialware isn't ported to Linux.
    1. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Most enterprise PCs do not come with trialware.

    2. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      True but enterprises probably use Corporate Volume Licensing, so they don't pay a per seat cost.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    3. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      That's really fascinating.

      $50 is what Dell claim Windows costs.

      http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-windows-tax-is-50-according-to-dell-linux-pc-pricing.html

      So does that mean that Windows is paid for by the crapware vendors? Cool.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Which is still just tap dancing around the fact that there *is* a cost, and not an insignificant one given the narrow margins of the commodity PC market.

    5. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      The commodity (aka home) PC market has OS license costs subsidized by crapware. The enterprise (aka work) market is less price sensitive (judging by how much I know they spend on buying mediocre laptops from their preferred supplier) and in any case doesn't pay a per seat cost, it's more like an all you can eat deal.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    6. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      I was referring to commodity market in terms of commodity PCs. In any event, both of the points you mention have already been addressed.

    7. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I was referring to commodity market in terms of commodity PCs. In any event, both of the points you mention have already been addressed. No they haven't. Where?

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    8. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Previously in this thread. The point about crippleware/trialware was brought up first, and the cost of volume licensing vs OEM pricing was brought up later. I'll save you the time of looking it up, though: trialware doesn't get put on enterprise PC purchases and volume licensing still costs money.

    9. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Well enterprise customers probably pay. Consumers don't because trialware subsidizes consumer Windows. I don't see the fact that it doesn't subsidize enterprise Windows affects this.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    10. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Because the original point related to business decisionmaking.

      As for the idea of offsetting costs, Michael Dell indicated at CES that $60 would cover the costs of not bundling trialware, while Sony has made the same offer at $50. A Windows OEM install costs Dell about $100, again according to Michael Dell. I'm not sure what a Vista OEM costs them, but one way or another, they're not getting 100% back.

    11. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      A Windows OEM install costs Dell about $100, again according to Michael Dell. I'm not sure what a Vista OEM costs them, but one way or another, they're not getting 100% back. Vista Home Basic costs $89 if you or I buy one copy.

      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116480

      I don't think it costs Dell $100.

      In fact I think he's lying about the $100 (if he ever said it) and Windows costs Dell nearer to $50. Remember it's in his interest to claim he pays more. And Microsoft probably don't want other OEMs to know he gets a steep discount. Which he's really worked for it - he buys millions of copies and has threatened Microsoft with preinstalling Linux or even FreeDOS as an alternative to paying the OEM fee.

      The only link I've seen about the cost of Windows to Dell puts the price at $50

      http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-windows-tax-is-50-according-to-dell-linux-pc-pricing.html

      So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95) Now customers can get other editions of Vista, but they have to pay a premium for them. So just maybe the OEM's cost is completely covered by trialware.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    12. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      I can appreciate what you're trying to say, and that this is an issue near and dear to your heart, but it goes against what the guys who actually run the industry are saying. If you have evidence to prove your point, present it.

    13. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Forgot to ask, if you think there is no Windows tax, why do you think it is that Linux machines (eg, from Dell) are typically costed roughly $50 less than the comparable Windows machine? Or why the Eee PC Windows version comes with a smaller SSD than the Linux version?

    14. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I can appreciate what you're trying to say, and that this is an issue near and dear to your heart, but it goes against what the guys who actually run the industry are saying. If you have evidence to prove your point, present it. Do you have a link where Michael Dell says that Windows costs $100? When did he say it? The only link I've found on Windows costs is that Dell will discount $50 if you don't have it. And that link states that '$50 is very close to the likely cost'. I posted it, it's the arstechnica link.

      But the $50 discount is a marketing decision.

      Someone else posted a link that implies the crapware vendors pay them $50-$60.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    15. Re:Trialware subsidizes Windows by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      No link, but he said it at CES 2007 at the roundtable.
      As I said, I don't know what a Vista OEM costs them, as he was speaking specifically to XP at that point.
      In any event, the fact remains that Linux or no-OS boxes are consistently priced under equivalent Windows boxes from the same vendor. Thats a hard fact to tapdance around. Unless you have somebody reliable actually saying that the cost of windows is subsidized, or actual numbers to back your point, I'm just not seeing how you're coming to your conclusions.

  50. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by 2short · · Score: 1

    "There is a market for a fisherprice OS, and it is you."

    Perhaps there a market for a "fisherprice OS", since that is an excellent description of what you get pre-installed on the EEE. Do note that:
      A) In that context, it's great.
      B) It is Linux based.

    On bigger hardware, where I don't need something as stripped down and simplified as possible, I use Windows. I in fact don't mind the lack of freedom, because hacking OS's isn't my thing. Being force fed some corporations of what I need isn't so bad either since that idea appears to be "everything available for Linux, plus games".

  51. Re:How to Become a Household Commodity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In order to grab a mostly disinterested audience, you need to have the desktop stay 90% the same year after year after year.

    GNOME is already there. KDE is probably already there, but I'm not sure.

    Of the two, IMHO GNOME is the one to use for attracting a mostly disinterested audience; the "it just works" design philosophy is a win for users who just want it to work.

    You can tweak a KDE desktop and turn it into whatever you want, and some people are really into that. Despite my own opinion that GNOME would be a better choice, products like the Eee seem to be defaulting to a customized KDE. But that means that the Eee is a bit different from the Elonex and so on. I'd prefer to see them all ship with a completely standard GNOME desktop, with a panel customized with just the most popular app launchers. But all the vendors seem to view it as a plus to make their product different from everyone else's.

  52. It's all tactics... by ignavus · · Score: 1

    First we captured their server market.

    Then we captured their subnotebook market.

    Now we have got their desktop and laptop market surrounded!

    Bwahahahaha!

    --
    I am anarch of all I survey.
  53. Translation by dallaylaen · · Score: 2, Funny

    Windows works just fine, quit trying to be different for the sake of being different. Hey, what the hell are you doing with those two sticks? Rubbing them against one another?.. Sheesh! Quit trying to be different and go eat raw meat! Everyone knows it's the *best* food one can get.
    --
    WYSIWIG, but what you see might not be what you need
  54. Re:FP by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

    Wasn't there a greenlit article on LMOS? IIRC they used slashdot friendly buzzwords like "open source" and "linux boot sector" and relied on the fact that the editors were too lazy to look up what "Last Measure" means.

    The other thing they did I thought was funny was getting CNN to run shocked exposé on their jewsdidwtc site which is a blatant paraody of Time Cube and other babbling mad conspiracy sites. Some of the web pages that CNN showed on TV was very obviously a joke, even though they only showed them for a few seconds. You can find it on youtube.

    Good times ... good times ...

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  55. After the email fsck-up ??? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    I'm registered for one of these, because the idea seems quite handy ; I'm a little more concerned that last week the person managing the pre-registration list accidentally sent out one of those "sdfsdffds" test emails to (it would seem) a large proportion of the people who've registered. Very embarrassing, and at least the guy put his name to the "Sorry" email a few hours later. But it's worrying none-the-less.
    (He put his hands up to it, which is why I'm not naming the account it came from. If the person in the cubical next to you at Elonex is turning red about the ears, tell him to stop reading /. )

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  56. troll or just stupid? by reiisi · · Score: 1

    We really need mod points for stupidness. Or perhaps obtuseness, although obtuseness, especially obviously deliberate obtuseness, is really hard to differentiate from trolling.

    I take it you really are one of those that simply can't believe there are people for whom popularity contests are irrelevant?

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  57. Nissan Computer by tepples · · Score: 1

    and besides, it's quite possible for two unrelated companies to have trademarks on the same name if it's being used in different fields. Tell that to Nissan Computer.
  58. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    "Imagine for a minute if Windows shipped with 12 text editors and 6 video players, and on and on as Linux does."
    Okay I will bite.
    Windows ships with at least three editors. You have notepad which is really kind of useless, edit which is the old DOS 5 editor, and Wordpad.
    Many technical Windows users will then add on notepad++ and maybe Html-toolkit or some other good editor.
    It doesn't take too long for most Windows users to install iTunes, which then installs Quicktime, then some will end up with Real Player, and then VLC...
    So you then have a few video players. And editor. That really isn't a problem with Linux.
    Now could the default install just install say Gedit for Gnome or Kate for KDE? Sure. But for KDE I would want Kate and Kedit. Kedit is lighter and faster and Kate is more powerful. Kind of like NotePad and WordPad.

    The Simple truth is that having extra editors and video players just isn't a big deal and for most people it really isn't a problem.
    The problem is when things need fiddling to work. Ubuntu has come a long way with codecs and flash but wireless is still less than stellar. I had wireless working on my notebook before I upgraded to the latest Ubuntu and now it doesn't want to connect to my wap.
    That is a problem.
    But if you really think that 12 editors and six video players is a problem then just fork ubuntu or fedora and make a simple default distro. If enough people agree with you they will beat a path to your door.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  59. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Again there is nothing to "bite" onto here, nor is it a desire of mine to create yet another distro. It is truth. Windows ships with 3 editors. Linux installs a ton more than that by default... actually look. Now imagine the extraneous libraries and junk installed. Now think about how hard it is to standardize help and support due to that, imagine how confusing it is for the newbie. "OK so open that file to edit it" "OH sorry I don't know the key commands for VI use EMACS instead" "Oh, well Pico will work too, or jed or joe, etc." or a graphical one "GTKedit, Kate, Kedit, etc." "OK so which one is it opened in?" and on and on.

    Or how about telling someone how to open a video file? None are associated properly during install because there are a half dozen, some have some codecs some don't, some need configuration, etc. OK so are you in Totem, Xine, XMMS, VLC, and on and on.

    It is just about restricting it for the initial install, so everyone starts on an even footing. One (hell even two) text editors. One video player with an easy in-built way to add codecs not an external package manager. One (maybe two with a light solution) music player. streamline the kernel for modern hardware instead of still including options for obscure ISA controller cards in a desktop distro. Streamline the UI and look/feel. Streamline the libraries installed by default to those that are required and no more.

    Simple things are missed time and time again because of this. Like walpapers. The list shown as available by default is anemic, yet there are tons of folders of high-res desktops all over the place on the system. Organize, streamline, and actually FIX the problems that the other guys fail on.

  60. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    I don't care if vi, emacs, picco or my favorite joe are installed.
    Those are in the command line and you never know that they are there most of the time. First thing I do on a new Linux system is install joe just because I don't want to take the time to learn vi and or emacs. In the case of emacs it is a case of learning it again.
    Extra libraries? Support for old hardware? Those are total non issues for most end users. If everything works they will not care.
    As to codecs and Linux. I run into issues with Windows and codecs as well. Ubuntu as far as I can tell does a better job then Windows with codecs.

    And when you install Ubuntu and click on a video file a player DOES start right out of the box.
    Again I use both Windows and Linux. They are differn't but except for games I tend to use Linux because it works better.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  61. Re:A solid company created distro could be the tic by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

    Agreed that more organization/streamlining is needed, but it is something that has been happening, and it should be very much encouraged to happen so that Linux won't fall behind in any way, and the ways in which it has do need to be addressed, fully agreed, and I think most developers would agree with that. Who doesn't want to see Linux become a better contender? Not unless you work for MS or Apple I guess...even though Apple "uses it" to a degree so it helps with their success too (yeah yeah it's BSD, but the OS part of the system shares a lot with Linux systems). Some old rusty parts of Linux/Gnu have been cut out and replaced with newer, more functional, more adaptive and intelligent systems. It'll only continue to happen. Like the previous poster noted, if you make it and everyone likes it, it'll become popular. As for choosing something that's one of the best and making it the installed default which is fine, Ubuntu has a "Movie Player", and that's it. Totem. It's a great movie player, and leaves me with no additional needs really so I use it and only it unless I have the very rare codec problem for which I install and use VLC for. If you don't like the default selection of apps, use a different distro or one that has everything on 50 DVDs, and lets you choose exactly what you want to install. It's up to you. Users have the freedom to choose, that is key. They are, and it has been making things simpler, you're right. If you have program X and program Y, and Y has a huge user base and X does not, you'll install Y by default in your distro, and that's what is being done. Selection via popularity and user demand.

    I'm not going to claim that standardization will be a *totally* natural process of users selecting the app that matters most to them though. I think a more important evolution lies deeper down. Standardizing ways of installing and running any program on any Linux install. Standardizing a program's interface so that it mimics the current GUI's user's configuration options and breaking free from the desktop environment specific restraints. Those are the things that doing them in the right way will ultimately give users more flexability and more choice, and will allow more competition between software by helping to level the playing field.

    Avoid proprietization, battle for interoperability and freedom.

    --
    Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.