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Transportation Bill Sets Aside $45 Million For MagLev Train
tbischel tips us to news that the MagLev train project which would run from Las Vegas to Disneyland has received approval for $45 million in funding. The project has been in the planning stages for quite some time, and it was delayed further by a drafting error in a 2005 highway bill.
"Derided by critics as pie in the sky, the train would use magnetic levitation technology to carry passengers from Disneyland to Las Vegas in well under two hours, traveling at speeds of up to 300 mph. It would be the first MagLev system in the U.S. The money is the largest cash infusion in the project's nearly 20-year history. It will pay for environmental studies for the first leg of the project."
Where critics = oil companies and automobile manufacturers
Just callin' it like I see it.
And how long did the previous train take. If it took 8 hours, then maybe it's the reason it didn't succeed. That being said, if you're going to build a maglev train, you might as well build it between two major cities, like New York to Washington.
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I think they are more concerned with making it actually profitable.
Invenio via vel creo
Come on, this technology is well proven, there's been a testtrack running for over twenty years at Siemens in Germany, a stretch of track has been taken into production between Hamburg and someplace else (can't remember) and a line between Shanghai and Pudong airport has been running for some years now.
... and let's face it, the French technology in this case, the TGV, is almost as fast and runs on conventional tracks ( which, admittely, have to be purpose built for the TGV with shallower turns etc but still ).
At the moment, it's still to expensive, and all countries/continents where passenger trains are common have extensive networks of traditional tracks
The technology is nice, proven but at the moment there's not really a business case to be made for longer stretches of MagLev tracks.
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Sorry, a $45 millions budget is not huge. In France, 300 km of a TGV lines cost exceed the 3 billion euros. (See that in French; remember that 'milliard' in French = 1E9 = billion in English). And the LGV line is doing well. And I am not ashamed that it is funded by French taxpayers money. I wish -for American people- that the next USA administration will actually fund (with dozens of billions of US$, not dozens of millions) a better transport system in the US.
There is already a "high speed" train that runs between New York and Washington D.C. - the Acela Express, for a commute time of 2 hours 48 min. It is limited to a paltry 75-150 MPH (120-240 KPH) due to track conditions. Mostly the speed is limited via the existing infrastructure, the bridges, tunnels, track closeness etc. Higher speeds would necessitate reinforcement of those structures, and the overhead electrical wires to withstand higher speeds. Much of the speed inhibition is in that the train needs to tilt to navigate the sharp rail curves. Pre-existing tracks are to close together to allow for high speed cornering that would require the trains to tilt, thus preventing train collisions between regular trains, and the leaning Acela Express. Of note, there are multiple at-grade crossings on this trains route - these are rarely found on other high speed train lines for obvious reasons.
..........FULL STOP.
So, like the american rocket program, you will now need to get yourself more German scientists just so you can come in second place.
If the environmental study is going to cost 45 million, the construction costs are going to be multiple billions. Don't think it will ever make enough money to be profitable. Obviously a pork barrel project!
It would seem that Los Angeles to Las Vegas would be more population centered, thus insuring better profitability.
As far as mag-lev - why? Building a proven TGV type of track, would allow other trains to use it as well, also aiding in cost-benefit. Plan on multiple side junctions to allow the TGV type train to pass the slower trains, thus permitting dual use for freight, etc. I can't imagine the mag-lev train to be that much more efficient, since fuel cost , at those speeds, is all about fighting wind resistance, and not rolling resistance.
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And this man's the Rail Minister? Sweet Jesus.
They would make a huge profit from a DC to NY train assuming it had stops in the big East Coast Cities. I grew up in Baltimore and it seems that almost everybody their worked in DC and had to drive all the way everyday. A lot of people would use it for business commutes and many college kids could use it to get home from school (UMD, GW etc) without car.
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It's not as big a boondoggle as you think. It could pave the way for essentially obseleting air travel between city centers for trips under 600 miles in distance due to the 300+ mph cruising speed of maglev trains.
For example, Chicago could become a MAJOR hub for maglev trains, with these lines going from Chicago in a spoke-like fashion:
1) To Milwaukee, WI-Madison, WI-Eau Claire, WI-Minneapolis/Saint Paul, MN
2) To Rockford, IL-Davenport, IA-Des Moines, IA-Council Bluffs, IA-Omaha, NE
3) To Champaign, IL-Saint Louis, MO-Columbia, MO-Kansas City, MO-Wichita, KS
4) To Indianapolis, IN-Cincinnati, OH-Louisville, KY
5) To South Bend, IN-Toledo, OH-Cleveland, OH-Erie, PA-Buffalo, NY
6) To Grand Rapids, MI-Lansing, MI-Detroit, MI
Given that maglev trains aren't limited by the width constraints of standard gauge rail, you can create trains that could seat 500 passengers per train or more travelling every 18 to 20 minutes on the same route. You would actually encourage people to not fly or drive between these two cities due to the very fast transit times.
The techniques being tested are for tax-dollar extraction. It is extremely complex and requires lots of study and careful planning. Transportation is just a side-effect.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
Absolutely not, but with the current administration I do believe we're nearing a level of perfection previously unheard of.
...after having watched part of our antiquated, outmoded, and obviously unused highway system crumble into the Mississippi, I feel that perhaps we should be allocating this money to maintaining the existing infrastructure? Maybe a few of us backward, countryfolk in flyover territory still use these existing carbon-hungry systems? Also, I suffer this delusion that the gas taxes I pay should be channeled not into the general fund, but into transportation projects in my state. If new development is desired, perhaps a few dozen new nuclear plants and an attempt to electrify the vehicle fleet?
The French made their TGV go much faster than 300Mph on normal tracks by basically giving it bigger wheels - 352Mph to be precise.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6521295.stm
Why pay so much for a technology giving you so little? MagLev isn't cheap. You could just copy the French...........ah what am I saying...
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It's amazing how much paranoia has become ingrained in certain subsections of modern western society.
You know, I too enjoyed watching X-Files in my youth
the French national railway (SNCF) has proven time and time again that electric trains can easily achieve 300mph (a TGV hit 357mph on test in 2007)
That's just 3mph slower than the fastest ever Maglev Monorail.. but it runs on standard gauge rail track that can be time-shared with commuter trains and railfreight traffic.. Heavy Rail in the USA is something that had its time then went away, but don't be surprised if it makes a return again.
300mph trains between city-centre stations can compete with 600mph aeroplanes flying from heavily-secured out-of-town airports.
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And if appropriately managed, likely would cost less than the war in Iraq/Afghanistan. And employed Americans doing it. Better yet, something to show for the trillions.
Let me see if I can convert that to units I can understand [...] how about 0.02 Wars on Terror
In discussions about US government programs I often hear Iraq war comparisons. It's understandable - there are a lot of exciting things we could have done with the $500 billion we've spent in Iraq.
However, we've spent that money; we can't un-spend it. So we don't have $500 billion sitting around waiting for an application. What we have is a toilet that's had $500 billion flushed down it, a budget deficit and $9,410 billion in national debt.
Maybe we never want to pay off that debt; that certainly seems to be the view of our politicians. But if we want to get the national debt under control we have to realise that, to paraphrase Everett Dirksen, ten billion here and ten billion there and pretty soon you're talking about serious money.
"Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
It's amazing how much paranoia has become ingrained in certain subsections of modern western society.
In terms of the American political world, given how often what is called "paranoia" turns out to be close enough to fact twenty or thirty years later it's not really a surprise. In the 1980s global warming was considered paranoia,even though it had been theorized in 1896. Treehuggers were fringe political freaks thirty years ago, now we know that they were mostly right. Orwell's 1984 was thought a bit over the top during most of it's literary history. But thoughtcrime and doublethink are a modern reality. Predictions of government abuse of "anti-terrorism" laws were written off as treasonously unpatriotic just six years ago.
Given how much "Big Oil" countries have been investing in the US, it would be foolish to think that they didn't have considerable influence here in the US, both through lobbists and through business and real estae acquisitions. Also given is the oil import/export relationship is the prime source of income to most OPEC countries, it only makes sense that they would act to protect it. Maglev trains powered by stationary nuclear plants don't burn nearly as much imported oil as jumbo jets. Now exactly how successful they would be in their efforts to block the progression of an oil free infrastructure taking hold in the US is a potential topic for debate, but the fact that they will use what considerable influence they can to that end would seem obvious.
We are all just people.
I agree with you completely, but I'd argue that trains work best when they're connecting two mass transit systems together. In New York, you can hop on a subway to 34th St. Penn Station, and then jump on a train to Washington or Boston, and then take mass transit to your destination. It's a doorstep-to-doorstep solution. Disney Land to Vegas lacks that advantage. After arriving in Vegas, I'm going to need a car to get anywhere, so it starts making sense to drive, so you'll have that added flexibility and convenience of not needing to rent a car or take cabs.
The only other angle I could see is that this would effectively allow you to hit both on a single vacation. The problem is that I don't see these markets overlapping much. Disneyworld sells a wholesome, innocent world of talking mice, princesses, and teacup rides. It's pure. It's where to go when you want a world that's unadulterated, and Vegas is where you go when you want adultery. Disney Land tries to be like Eden before the fall, innocent and sinless. Vegas is the city of sin, it's more Sodom and Gomorrah. It's about gambling, gorging yourself on buffets, going to the strip clubs for your buddy's bachelor party, maybe buying a hooker. It's trying to be more family-friendly than it used to be, but still... there's no way in hell I would go to Disney Land unless I had young children. And there is no way in hell I would go to Vegas with young children.
Your post is sadly accurate. This "venture" does nothing except line more pockets already stuffed with cash.
I would think a better allocation of the money and plans would be building a MagLev from certain rural and suburban communities to the not-close-enough-to-drive-to cities to bolster employment, housing and more. As a for instance, in New York, people and politicians (yes I consider them a separate group) often complain about the decline of Upstate New York. Upstate New York has numerous river towns, all arranged in a nice straight line, all with rail beds or rail in place (yes, I know you cant use existing rail for a MagLev - but you can use existing (defunct or not) areas where that rail did or does exist to put a MagLev in, saving LOTS of money in not needing to grade terrain, remove mountains or hills in the way, etc). So... hundreds of small towns, suburbs and rural areas could be connected to areas like Albany, Troy, Plattsburgh, etc... with travel time from the most remote being in the matter of minutes instead of hours by car or regular rail.
What a neat way of building up the area... really short commute to work/the "big" cities, really cheap and affordable housing, lots of land to build more on... which, in the not-too-long run would be what happens as each area becomes more and more self sustaining, both through an influx of new people looking for affordable housing close (time wise at least) to available jobs - and through having financial ties back and forth between the cities and the growing rural and suburban areas (a financial benefit to all involved - and also an incentive for more businesses to move into the cheaper upstate area to help continue that growth).
Nah... that would help too many people - both those who live up there, and those who live in less affordable areas who would consider moving there to have a decent lifestyle, home and job.
Much better to line the pockets of the already insanely rich.
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Los Angeles and Las Vegas are pretty-damn-big cities. What's more, the traffic traveling between the two on a regular basis is enormous, and the length of the route in addition to the congestion means getting people out of their cars could be a HUGE win.
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