Sony Gives Educational Access To PS2/PSP SDKs

Verunks points out that senior manager Mark Danks at the Playstation Blog has announced the availability of PS2 and PSP development kits through college programs. He writes: "PlayStation-edu is a program for universities and colleges to get access to PS2 and PSP development kits ... the same ones that professional developers use to make the games you love to play. You get the development software, the hardware, and the SDK to learn and experiment with. SCEA wants to make sure that students who are graduating from college are ready to program on PlayStation hardware and that means getting it into your hands."

Comments

PS2?

[Tubal-Cain]

Why on the PS2 and PSP? is programming for them the same as programming for the PS3?

Re:PS2?

[codefrog]

Yes, the programming techniques for any newer console are derived from the ones used on the last console. Some things get simpler, some things get more complicated. The PS2 and PSP devkits the Sony sells to developers can't be in much demand at this point; it makes perfect sense to convert all those very pricey business assets into some kind of accountable "good will" and at the same time train new developers in the twisted Sony way. Microsoft has a big advantage (in terms of training developers) in that the Xbox and X360 development environments are based on Direct X and on Visual Studio which are accessible to the general public and in fact have enormous user bases already. To those people who would reject the opportunity to learn PlayStation coding - based on Sony's reputation for evil - I say 'fine by me'. The fewer coders I have to compete with, the more my skillz are worth in the market.

Re:PS2?

[mdenham]

Also, though I'm not going to be able to provide attribution (par for the course here) I thought the PS3 devkit was basically "install a PS3-compatible distro of Linux and use gcc"?

Re:PS2?

[rsmith-mac]

Unfortunately not. For starters, the base PS3 OS isn't Linux. On top of that you can't use the GPU (or rather its framebuffer) when running Linux. The only way to do any kind of real PS3 development is with a SDK. This is the one thing where Microsoft has Sony completely whipped and to a lesser degree Nintendo (their SDK is much cheaper at $2500, though still not dirt cheap by any means).

Re:PS2?

[mdm42]

The PS3 OS is not based on Linux, but the devkit is. The GPU drivers are unavailable to the general public, but an OpenGL based setup for Linux does exist (it's an NVidia GPU underneath after-all).

So although development on an ordinary PS3 with Linux is not really possible, the actual devkit is Linux based.

Uhhh, hold on a minute...

[zappepcs]

is there any greater confirmation of the value of OSS than companies wanting to give you access so you will help them out later?

Hold on, so the megacorp will 'give' you access so you'll be ready to help them later.... uhm, can we sue them? This is entirely the process of OSS, well sort of. If it is open, people will use it. If you build it, they will come. To me, this validates RMS rather than saying anything about Sony, unless you want to say that maybe they get it now? but huh? They don't get it, they just want cheap labor.

Well, perhaps people will learn... software is free. Excruciating customer service experiences cost money.

Just my opinion

Re:Uhhh, hold on a minute...

[bigstrat2003]

uhm, can we sue them? What the fuck are we going to sue them for? And how does this have anything to do with OSS? Sony chooses to make money off of developers by selling them devkits. Now that the PS2/PSP devkits aren't worth as much, they're willing to let them go for free. That's how business generally works... when something is worth less, lower the price.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't discern any sort of reason at all why you're suddenly dragging OSS into this. Not to mention... sue them? WTF?

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Square Snow Man]

Holy shit, grow the fuck up, it's not the like that ancient rootkit killed half your family and raped your father. Go troll somewhere else.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[mrbluze]

Go troll somewhere else. Sadly, some people have nowhere else to troll

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[somersault]

I know they're separate divisions of Sony and all, but it's hard to make that distinction from far away, watching them get away with murder at the expense of the computer illiterate or trusting ignorant. I don't know how you can feel good about supporting their platform if you're a software developer. Wow. Uh, well like you said.. separate divisions for one.. and didn't they outsource the actual DRM software? The guys who were making the decisions from on high in the music division are probably just as computer illiterate as the general populous. And hasn't it just been a one of so far? Compared to MS, Sony are the Carebears in my eyes.. MS have done far more damage to computing by even frickin allowing CDs to automatically install rootkits like that with their poor security practices. I understand that you want to have principals, but I like Sony because the majority of their products are actually good products, if somewhat overpriced at times. I dislike Microsoft because the majority of products they make are poorly conceived and implemented, and are often sickenly overpriced unless you get OEM stuff.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[somersault]

Won't somebody please think of the trolls? I'm glad that a 2 dimensional snow man agrees with me even if everyone else is on the Sony hate bandwagon. How could anyone dislike Sony more than Microsoft? It's hilarious to just be blind to Microsoft's ongoing anti-competetive practices and shoddy software, but to get eternally pissed when Sony try to implement DRM to protect their copyright. I don't agree with their methods, or even DRM in general, but with an entity as large as Sony they are bound to make mistakes and poor decisions at some point. The entire music industry have been jerks over the last few years - all large music related companies including Sony gave in to the DRM hype, but most of them seem to be coming around a bit. If it weren't for the rootkit thing then the process would have taken even longer..

New Curriculum Tool

[FurtiveGlancer]

Savy profs will be able to ensure their students have adequately covered the course material by building courseware into PS2/PSP games. Instead of reading law at Oxford, perhaps one can play Fluid Mechanics and Heat Transfer or Computer Architecture at A&M.

Re:New Curriculum Tool

[BiggerIsBetter]

Savy profs will be able to ensure their students have adequately covered the course material by building courseware into PS2/PSP games. Instead of reading law at Oxford, perhaps one can play Fluid Mechanics and Heat Transfer or Computer Architecture at A&M. Not really. The PS3 makes more sense for that sort of number-crunching work, and there's already Linux distros available to facilitate this on the Cell CPU. For the rest of it, Microsoft has the XNA environment available for the XBox, to enable game/learning-environment development. Indeed, I was enrolled in just such a (postgrad) paper last year. Moreover, none of these options require going through the drama that Sony wanted to impose... and who knows how easy or hard it will be to prove you're an institution or prof worthy of the free licensing, and what catches there are in the legal agreement? IMHO, it's too little too late, with Sony trying to catch up on the ground it has already lost to Microsoft (and Nintendo, for those profs particularly interested in HCI).

Cheap Xbox 360 devkit

[tepples]

This is the one thing where Microsoft has Sony completely whipped and to a lesser degree Nintendo (their SDK is much cheaper at $2500, though still not dirt cheap by any means). Microsoft still has the cheapest devkit for education. To any PC from 2006 or later, add Windows (100 USD from OEM), XNA Game Studio (included with Internet access), an Xbox 360 console (350 USD), and a five-year subscription to Creators Club (495 USD).

Re:Cheap Xbox 360 devkit

[Anonymous Coward]

Except access to the XNA platform isn't really a "devkit", that's like saying Flash 7 is a devkit for the Wii...

Re:Cheap Xbox 360 devkit

[MikeTheGreat]

For students & teachers, it's even better - the XNA Creators Club subscription is free through their 'DreamSpark' thingee:

https://downloads.channel8.msdn.com/Products/XNA_Game_Studio.aspx
(Looks like 'free for 1 year, then $100/year afterwards' is the official line)

Re:Cheap Xbox 360 devkit

[News for nerds]

Flash is a cross-platform virtual machine platform just like .NET, though .NET has only Mono as an incomplete non-Windows platform implementation. So yes, the analogy holds water.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Gazzonyx]

Troll? OK, give me the benefit of the doubt and defend them for installing rootkits on customers computers and give me one reason why I should take up the practice since it seems most people here really could care less. The fact that it happened a long time ago doesn't mean a thing. It was a predetermined malicious action... yet you defend them. Why? Give a single reason that it's ok and justifiable.

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[AKAImBatman]

Rootkit? Rootkit?!?! You think that's the only reason why people are pissed at Sony? My own decision to boycott them was long after that debacle. Let's look at a short list of some of Sony's many transgressions:

- Rootkit
- Irresponsible handling of exploding battery situation
- Failure to take responsibility for warrantied CCD failures
- Legally crushing Lik-Sang for (ohmygosh) importing the PS3
- Playing customers for stupid with their "All I want for Christmas is my PSP" astroturfing campain

Sony has a demonstrated track record of disdain for their customers. As long as they maintain that disdain, I do not feel the need to be their customer. (Which is upsetting, because I used to see Sony as a great company.)

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[robo_mojo]

My name is Inigo Montoya, you rooted my father's PC, prepare to die!

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[Jor-Al]

I know they're separate divisions of Sony and all, but it's hard to make that distinction from far away, Only if you're a zealot is it hard to make that distinction. SCEA has nothing at all to do with anything Sony BMI does. This would be like getting pissed at Toyota for something that Ford did, the two are just about as distinct.

More info on PS-edu

[mdanks]

There seem to be two common questions about the program.

1) Why not PS3?

    The PS3 is a complex box to program for and the amount of knowledge which a student would get in a semester actually wouldn't be that much. The goal of the program is to help teach students about the low levels of the hardware...regardless of the platform. The PS2 is a very good teaching tool for this. I have seen too many students graduate who think that they can program "the metal" only knowing C# and Java. They don't know anything about DMA, registers, bus contention, instruction latency, etc.

2) What about indie games?

    Again, the goal of ps-edu is instructional. However, I am in close contact with Sony World Wide Studios, so if a student creates a great game, I can easily put them in touch with WWS.

Mark

Re:More info on PS-edu

[mdanks]

You are correct, with PS2/PS3 Linux and Yaroze, the hardware was hidden from the users.

With PlayStation-edu, students have the exact same SDK, compilers, debuggers, docs, and tools which professional developers have. With these, the entire hardware layer of the machine is exposed.

Mark

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[bigstrat2003]

It's neither ok, nor justifiable... but neither is your attitude. Contrary to your assertions, the fact that it was a different division of Sony, and happened a long time ago, means EVERYTHING. Your "I refuse to have anything to do with Sony" rant is pretty childish. They did wrong. Let them be punished, and then let's go about our business like normal. We don't have to refuse to do any business with all divisions of Sony for the next $foo years because of it... there is such a thing as overkill.

Caveats

[dj_tla]

In all honesty, I think this is a very interesting program, and if there are any profs out there who actually use it, it will be a boon to students and the industry.

However, I wanted to point out something that no one has mentioned yet (oddly):

Of course, there are a couple caveats (aren't there always?): Yes, your school will need to sign some legal agreements with us and yes, "get access to" means that your school will need to purchase the hardware.

For the record, no, there aren't always caveats. While the legal agreemenst may be harmless, I wouldn't be surprised if the fine print makes this program far less attractive than the first impression. If it involves the transfer of intellectual property, I'll be livid. Yes, the Playstation blog is probably not where that information should be, but a link would be appreciated.

Also, the fact that money still changes hands is a bit confusing. Were colleges and universities were not allowed to buy dev kits before? It seems like this program is just Sony marketing its dev kits to a specific audience.

Again, I'm not saying that this isn't a good idea - it would undoubtedly be a great learning tool for many university classes. But saying "You get the development software, the hardware, and the SDK to learn and experiment with" is a bit disingenuous given that the school has to purchase it, something that they could have always done.

Re:Caveats

[mdanks]

Actually, no. Universities have never been able to purchase the hardware. Previously, only licensed developers were able to get the hardware.

While I would love to give away the hardware for free, that would be like MS giving a retail 360 with every copy of XNA. Trust me, SCEA isn't making a profit on the dev kits :-)

Mark

Re:Caveats

[dj_tla]

Cheers for that, interesting to know. Can you give any details on the legal agreements? In particular, do students retain ownership of the code they create, to the extent that they can license it however they choose?

Re:Caveats

[mdanks]

It actually depends on the school. SCEA doesn't have any ownership over the IP. If the school lets the students own it, then great. If the school says that it gets the IP, then okay.

Mark

XNA has DirectX

[tepples]

Flash is a cross-platform virtual machine platform just like .NET XNA has a hardware-accelerated 3D image rasterizing API based on Direct3D. Does Flash 7, the version used on Wii, have anything analogous?

Re:I'll pass, thanks.

[AKAImBatman]

You're a troll.

Holy cow. Pot calling kettle black.

I got as far as "Lik Sang was a pirate company" before I gave up. You don't work for Sony do you?

Lik Sang didn't pirate anything. They were an importer of Japanese goods; many of which were extremely high quality. The company that Sony crushed had the same name as a previous company that sold mod-chips (a legal gray area) but they were not that company. They sold stuff like LCD-compatible light-guns and Japanese-only games.

I won't even bother replying to the rest. Pearls before swine and all that.