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Legal Trouble For Multiple ISPs

Ars Technica reports that Comcast has been hit with three new class-action lawsuits due to the company's traffic-shaping practices. "The lawsuits ... ask that Comcast be barred from continuing to violate various state laws, in addition to unspecified damages." Meanwhile, members of the US House Telecommunications Subcommittee have asked Charter Communications' president to stop testing a program which uses Deep Packet Inspection to track the habits of its customers. A number of privacy groups have voiced their support (PDF). As if that weren't enough, it seems the City of Los Angeles is suing Time Warner for fraud and deceptive business practices. The Daily News notes, "... the City Attorney is seeking $2,500 in civil penalties for each violation of the Unfair Competition law as well as an additional $2,500 civil penalty for each violation described in the complaint perpetrated against one or more senior citizens or disabled persons."

17 of 303 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by corsec67 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Too bad for you that the ISPs are a monopoly due to "control by government busy-bodies". Or are you suggesting that every single ISP/cable company/power company/water company/sewage company be required to run their own pipes to your house?

    Don't like it, go elsewhere, like russia.

    If you run from injustice instead of fighting it, guess what, you are going to lose.
    --
    If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
  2. Re:wtf... by Hassman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The bandwidth shapers...the crack dealers will destroy themselves.

    Is it more just to go after those who CHOOSE to break the law, or those that OPENLY do it because they are big business and feel they can do what they want when they want?

    --
    -Mark
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
  3. Re:What do all 3 ISPs have in common? by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful
    So soon nobody will be able to watch YouTube if the bandwidth chopping continues.

    You have to pay extra for access to YouTube, UDP traffic, images in HTML, Java Applets, Embedded Flash - and you must accept that we inject some commercials in the pages you visit.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  4. No, they should not. by plasmacutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sorry but I'd rather have sniped connections and over-zealous QOS than take a giant step backwards and have internet billed like a cellphone service.

    Any company that tries to meter me to "improve customer efficiency" will get a reminder that customers are supposed to get what THEY want. They will get my service cancellation call, regardless of any potential contractual penalties.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  5. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by baboo_jackal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    BTW and kind of off topic... Do you know why oil is 136 a barrel?
    Yeah. OPEC, and prohibitive taxes and restrictions on domestic drilling, plus increased fossil fuels demand from developing nations.

    It is because speculative corporations...
    No. Speculators perform a valuable function in the free market. You're only looking at one half of the picture (the half that allows you to demonize speculators).

    Speculators buy a commodity in the hopes that the price will rise. In doing so, they decrease the supply, thereby further driving up prices. (this is the "bad part" that you've fixated on). However, by driving up prices, they decrease consumption (and *please* don't trot out the "but gas is price inelastic!" argument. It's not).

    The part you've neglected to mention is what happens when speculators decide to start selling their stored commodities. When a speculator guesses that scarcity is at its peak, they start selling. This increases the supply, and drives *down* price, and allowing consumption to increase.

    A better way to look at speculation is this: Speculators act as "buffers" for supply and demand. They actually smooth out the peaks and valleys of supply and demand. Also, you left out the fact that speculation is *not* a risk-free enterprise. Speculators take considerable risks in storing commodities. If the price decreases, they've lost out! In addition, consider the fact that the rising price in oil incentivizes energy companies to develop alternate forms of energy, and maybe will even help politicians in the thrall of mindless environmentalist special interest groups see the folly of preventing domestic drilling for fossil fuels, and the development of a nuclear energy infrastructure.

    If your opinion is that we ought to be consuming less fossil fuels, then speculators are doing you a favor! If your belief is that fossil fuels ought to be cheaper, so we'll use more energy, then why not just advocate for the development of nuclear power, or drilling in ANWR? Why not vocally denounce the unethical price-gouging behavior of OPEC nations? There are a lot more culprits to blame for this than speculators. In fact, they're the least of our worries.

    But just because they happen to be making out like bandits right now, they're easy targets for ill-considered and thoughtless rhetoric.
  6. Fines have gotten too low! by wfstanle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "... the City Attorney is seeking $2,500 in civil penalties for each violation of the Unfair Competition law"

    WTF These fines are laughable. In fact we have to rethink our policy on fines. They should be based on a percentage of your gross annual income. This should be for individuals, organizations and corporations. I would be in favor of doing this for something as simple as a parking ticket. The way it is now, the corporate board just treats it as a cost of doing business.

  7. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

    BTW and kind of off topic... Do you know why oil is 136 a barrel? Yeah. OPEC, and prohibitive taxes and restrictions on domestic drilling, plus increased fossil fuels demand from developing nations. That has a bit to do with it, but mainly its at $136 a barrel because the dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be.
  8. How much are telecoms paying you to astroturf? by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously, how much are the telcoms paying you to make these posts?

    There is no reason to get self-righteous about this. It's not as if people go to jail if they choose NOT to buy the service because they dont like the idea of subsidizing heavy users. They as light users don't see noticeable service degradation from heavy users, and they still choose to buy it. there is no "injustice" being perpetrated.

    There is NO CREDIBLE REASON to charge for internet like cellphone service. What kind of stockholm syndrom do you have where you can defend this practice?

    Does fedex charge by the mile? I contest that people who ship using flat-rate envelopes to the neighboring state are subsidizing people who ship using the same envelopes cross country. Do you see how stupid this sounds?

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  9. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the big fiction is that there has to be a "last mile" monopoly in the first place. That made sense back when a. there was only one telecommunications provider and b. running that last mile was prohibitively expensive. The telcos have been milking that for all it's worth: maybe it is time to eliminate that monopoly and allow some serious competition.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  10. Re:Why this constant fuzz in the US about bandwidt by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it's called a republican--corporations have a god given right to march over the "lazy" people who aren't rich--appointed FCC allowing local monopoly frachise agreements. In the majority of areas there are 2 choices, "the cable company" or "the dsl company", assuming both options exist.

    telecom lobbies have exercised regulatory capture for at least a decade now, and, while their agendas are much less invasive than the RIAA, have considerably greater lobbying grip on our legislatures.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  11. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by Ephemeriis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am against any sort of control by government busy-bodies. Don't like it, go elsewhere, like russia. The problem is that without any sort of control by government busy-bodies companies will do whatever it takes to maximize their profits.

    Without control by government busy-bodies you'd have companies using sawdust as filler in their sausages... Pressing chalk dust into tablets and calling it "aspirin"... Paying children $1/day to work in hazardous conditions... You get the idea.

    And without control by government busy-bodies, as we're seeing now, companies will sell you 20 GB/month and call it "unlimited".

    --
    "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
  12. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by Znork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They actually smooth out the peaks and valleys of supply and demand.

    While I agree with you in theory, if you add in leverage and valuation bubble driven lending I'm not so sure it works out that way. The game changes when lending creates money.

    If the price decreases, they've lost out!

    If the price decreases they go bust and the lender loses out, which apparently translates into the Fed and taxpayers bailing them out. Structured correctly over several deals, most of the speculative profit is retained anyway, and the losses get almost completely socialized.

    Supporting the freedom of the market is one thing (and a good thing, IMO), but you also have to realize that certain segments of what we have today is nothing like a free market. The banking industry in combination with fractional reserve lending distorts the effects of what _should_ be rational (and market smoothing) speculation.

  13. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They only act as buffers when they buy low and sell high, as you would expect rational speculators to do.

    When they take the "free" the money the Fed keeps printing and buy high, because they think the Fed is going to keep on printing "free" money and hence it's going to go higher still, they are not buffering. They doing the reverse, and making the peak higher, when the sell they'll make the low lower too - the opposite of smoothing things out.

    But it's not their fault, they're being rational enough, it's simply Fed induced inflation at work. You'd be mad not to leverage as much as you can into positions that will do well in inflationary times (which is commodities...)

  14. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by maz2331 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is NOT "their traffic" at all. This is bandwidth that's been SOLD to the customers. It's not like using, say, a school or corporate network where the owner who pays the cost can shape and set policies of use at will.

    A paying customer has an absolute right to use what they paid for. Dropping packets, snooping on the flows, overselling their capacity, et cetera are all inexcusable.

    Really, with Comcast and Time-Warner, all we need to look at is what these company's core business is. They are content providers whose business model is threatened by the Internet.

    Really, they seem to be trying to recreate the "old days" of closed and propreitary services like Compuserve or AOL.

  15. Re:Their traffic - shape it if you want by monxrtr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry, but inflation solely occurs by government counterfeiting of the money supply. The exact same goods which exist before every trade exist after every trade occurs. Money is just another good which is itself subject to supply and demand subjective valuations. But only morons would think fiat paper which can easily be manipulated into an infinite supply is a good sound monetary policy.

    The world is waking up to the fact that every fiat currency in the world is a house of cards game of hot potato nobody wants to be holding when the music stops. Say hello to the new gold, say hello to the new money. It's called oil.

    Who thinks it's a good idea to save your money at 2% interest rate as the Federal Reserve counterfeits so much money that your saved money is worth 10% less next year than it was last year? That's precisely why people took on debt to speculate on houses (even if it meant buying a bigger house than you otherwise might have bought) to avoid having their savings stored in rapidly devaluing fiat currency. Now that we have ran out of new suckers to pay the highest prices for houses, it's a better bet to convert savings into commodities.

    So you wrongly demonize speculators, and give government interference in the free market a free pass? No voluntary willing trade occurs between any two people unless by definition that which is received is valued MORE than that which is given away in exchange. If both parties to the trade didn't simultaneously profit in strict economic terms, the trade would not occur. Demonizing speculators makes about as much sense as some third party making your computer hardware and software purchases for you without your consent.

    --
    "From DNA to P2P, we are all Copycats now. Go Go Copycat Power! Copycat Powers activate! Form of, a Copycat." --monxrtr
  16. Re:TWC was ousted from Minneapolis by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Instead of just changing it back and allowing them to go back to having a monopoly, why not just start giving pieces of the company to those who they wronged?

    Because that solution depends on another point of systemic failure: litigation.

    A system whereby the municipality owns the last mile (or conduits etc) requires no constant regulatory supervision as long as all competitors are given equal access. A system dependent on forcing an unwilling company, in whose best interest is to thwart all your attempts at forcing them to do this, requires constant monitoring, constant regulatory loophole fixing and as the final result endless litigation, all to questionable effects as all these measures are reactive and do not take effect for years after the harm to consumers was done.

    One solution is simple, effective and has a few easily observable points where it could possibly go astray, the other is complex and depends on endless litigation and political maneuvering as primary mechanisms of control.

    The only reason to prefer the complex, unwieldy and unreliable over simple and effective is ideological zealotry.

  17. Re:TWC was ousted from Minneapolis by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, government interference *subsidized* the construction of cable fiber optic infrastructure.

    Which has no bearing on the matter whatsoever. Subsidies are wholly unrelated to the problem of physical limitations of last-mile cabling.

    Your "free market" criticism is thus null and void.

    Non-sequitur.

    You also might want to check out the Austrian School of Economics being at the top of the food chain these days. Granted, other schools, such as Harvard, Stanford, London School, MIT, are a distant third tier from the Chicago School.

    Yes, the "school" which rejects empirical evidence in favor of ideologically motivated "deductions". A fringe lunacy even amongst other fundamentalist capitalist lunacies.

    Try not to fall in a trap of blasting loaded words like "capitalism" and instead focus on the economic and epistemological reality of observed actions of exchange.

    Oops. That would not be in line with the Austrian School's main premise that observation and empirical evidence takes a second seat to the priesthood's "deductions". Even you cannot keep these fruit-cakes straight.

    As someone who took classes from 5 Nobel Prize winning economists at the University of Chicago, there are certainly some flaws and valid methodological criticisms which can apply

    Nobel Prize in economics is like the Buttville Chicken Farmers' Award for the longest piss from the roof of Orville's farm. Except that the pissing farmhands cannot cause anywhere near the misery, suffering and death these Nobel "winners" did. Macroeconomics, as a whole, is an exercise in pseudo-scientific shamanism of the highest order. None, I repeat, none of the so-called "models" developed by any of these "schools" have been demonstrated to have even the slightest of predictive powers or most tenuous relationships to reality. Which of course never stops these frauds from pompous posturing and lecturing sanctimoniously.

    The last time these Nobel "winners" have tried to apply their oh-so-superior understanding of economics to something practical we ended up with a wee little oopsie called the "Long Term Capital Management" hedge fund. Look it up.

    But you haven't demonstrated any of them. And you yourself have never once walked into a single grocery store and traded money for food that did not by definition immediately simultaneously make you and the grocery store better off.

    Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of telco monopolies.

    All voluntary trade whatsoever only occurs because that which is received in exchange is valued MORE than that which is given away in exchange.

    LOL. That is one of the Holy Dogmas of the Capitalist Religion. In practice people trade hoping to receive value equal to that what was paid. Sometimes receiving far less. The extra "value" in excess of the trade itself is supposed to be a systemic property and as such never enters the mind of individual traders. And so the trade would have occurred irrespective of its presence.

    If this was not necessarily always an irrefutable epistemological, scientific, economic law, then trade would never occur and the division of labor wouldn't exist.

    This bit of illogical, rabid zealotry is pretty much self defeating. The trade always did and would occur if value of what you pay for is merely equal to what you get.

    You also make a fatal economic and epistemological assumption mistake in arbitrarily without substantiated basis assign benevolent angelic motivations to individuals arbitrarily labeled "government actors" while assigning bad devilish motivations to individuals arbitrarily labeled "business and corporation actors".

    Say what?! Government is (at least in theor