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ISO Puts OOXML On Hold
schliz alerts us that ISO, in response to the four appeals (Venezuela, India, Brazil, South Africa) filed in recent weeks, has put the OOXML standardization process on hold. Here is ISO's press release, which says that ISO/IEC DIS 29500 will not be published for at least "several months" while the appeals process goes forward.
Update: 06/11 10:13 GMT by KD : Reader Alsee points out that the fourth officially recognized appealing country is Venezuela, not Denmark as originally stated. The protests of Denmark and Norway are being disregarded, as they do not come from the administrative heads of their national organizations.
Update: 06/11 10:13 GMT by KD : Reader Alsee points out that the fourth officially recognized appealing country is Venezuela, not Denmark as originally stated. The protests of Denmark and Norway are being disregarded, as they do not come from the administrative heads of their national organizations.
Maybe the ISO hasn't been bought off totally. They actually made a rational decision about OOXML.
Thank god for this. Hopefully it'll be done away with completely and MS will be told where to stick it.
"On hold" is nice, but will there be an investigation or backlash regarding how it was passed in the first place? Or has the process of buying a standard just become a cost of doing business?
Haha!
I know everyone's going to make comments about OOXML being not a truly open/free/libre format, but there's something bigger going on...
Just to get access to published standards themselves on http://www.iso.org/iso/store.htm costs easily $50 to $150 each! Can someone please tell me how that makes any sense at all? How can we have global standards if people can't afford to even read them? Am I the only one who thinks this might be a bit hypocritical?
--
Hey code monkey... learn digital electronics!
Despite some obvious flaws in the process of standardization, I applaud ISO for recognizing the evaluation of the technical community it servers. Here's hoping sanity will ultimately prevail and the ISO retains the respect it's earned in the past.
In His infinite Noodliness, has touched the ISO with His Noodly Appendage.
I have a nasty thought that "on hold" is ISO speak for "waiting for the fuss to die down".
But I really hope that there has been enough of a back lash from the knowledgeable and enough of a crammed education on why this matters that this is now too high a profile for it to be swept under the rug.
Of course the downside of this whole fiasco is that there are now many, many more OOXML implementations out there and planned so this is hardly a complete bust for MS.
Still here's hoping that common sense prevails, and a bug grateful thank you for all those people who fought it.
Hooray, burn the docx.
This could all be another fake "evaluation" like the others were.
Just because they appear to be going through the steps that they're required to
Until ISO can PUBLICLY state the errors that were made and WHO made those "errors" AND take action against those individuals they can not be trusted. Not even to follow the procedures that their own rules require of them.
They didn't follow them when they were fast-tracking this. There is no reason to believe that this time will be any different.
Wow, I saw a post with only one comment? What's happening? Where are all the guys that stay here commenting 24/7 so that when other access they actually have what to read?
Perhaps there needs to be an ISO standard for checking the spelling of Slashdot posts.
Actually them putting it on hold is compliance with the OOXML specification as written by Microsoft.
"No Microsoft product shall have the features promised or be released when scheduled".
So all of you cheering this decision are incredibly misguided. Look a little closer and you will see this is clearly evidence of more MS tampering in the process.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
The Norwegian Standards committee was also almost unanimously against the OOXML. Then the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation offered a few hundred million $$ to various pet projects of the Norwegian prime minister such as a Svalbard seed bank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault as well as vaccination of kids in poor countries.
To everyones big suprise, the government set aside the No vote, and ruled by fiat that Norway would vote Yes.
But then again, why care about a petty little standard and some petty corruption when you can save the world.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
So, Bill, what are we going to do tonight?
Same thing we do every night, Stevie. Try to take over the world.
Since even Microsoft has switched to ODF, that's pretty much a no-brainer :-)
First sentence of TFA:
Four national standards body members of ISO and IEC - Brazil, India, South Africa and Venezuela - have submitted appeals against the recent approval of ISO/IEC DIS 29500, Information technology - Office Open XML formats, as an ISO/IEC International Standard.
are SAE standards, many of which are incorporated into US regulatory law.
The net effect is that you can't be sure you're legally compliant unless you pay some private organization a tithe.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Alas I fear I cannot. I find myself tending towards the belief that Microsoft will stop at nothing to get their ISO standard assigned, even if it means the destruction of the credibility of ISO itself.
Mind you, if ISO is so vulnerable this does beg the question 'is it still relevant?'
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
This is a great news. I think ISO is a bit overwhelmed at the least by the sheer pressure the world is putting on them about OOXML. Neelie Kroes by the way tell them that she can help if they ask : http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=SPEECH/08/317.
What will Microsoft's chairholder say?
Strong buy IKEA?
I don't get the sudden outrage about this. The ISO has ALWAYS been for sale to the highest bidder.
How do you think we ended up with this Gibibyte/Mebibyte nonsense?
I am suspicious about several ISO standards in the construction industry myself.
And ISO 9000 and company?
Cultist of the Average Middle-Aged Ones
TFA:
;)
"Four national standards body members of ISO and IEC - Brazil, India, South Africa and VENEZUELA - have submitted appeals against the recent approval of ISO/IEC DIS 29500 [...] as an ISO/IEC International Standard."
Summary:
"[...] ISO, in response to the four appeals (DENMARK, India, Brazil, South Arica) filed in recent weeks [...]"
Slashdot - as we know and love it.
Please let us get the facts straight here.
Denmark did not protest, appeal, or in any way change its official vote. The official Danish ISO vote is controlled by Dansk Standard, who voted "Yes" in the final OOXML specification vote (after initially voting "No with comments").
The reason Denmark keeps sneaking into the list of countries who "appealed" is probably because a local pro-Open Source lobby organization named "Foreningen for Open Source Leverandører i Danmark" (OSL) (their name in English is "The Danish Open Source Business Association") has submitted a protest and that is by many people mistakenly translated into an "official appeal".
Since the protest is not submitted by Dansk Standard (who holds the official ISO vote) but is in fact from a local lobby organization, the vote can not be considered "official" in any way. And it is important to note in this context, that the official Danish vote is still "Yes".
The protest is available in Danish on the OSL website and I also found a copy of the letter in English on Groklaw (its not on the OSL website for some reason). The original Groklaw artikle on the subject is here, in case you want to read the comments yourself.
The complaint criticises both the way Dansk Standard handled the OOXML approval process and a few formal errors in the ISO process.
The story was first announced by Computer World Denmark (Danish only, sorry). It was first mentioned on slashdot on June 1st where sadly it was also mistakenly described as an "official" protest.
- Jesper
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
There are four appeals, but Denmark's not one of them -- Venezuela is though.
Denmark are just part of the general howl of protest from people who've looked at the heap of excrement that is DIS 29500 and found it wanting, and/or were in one of the many countries where the behaviour of their National Bodies has made it clear that their local Microsoft lackeys have been interfering with what should be a process focussed on technical merit, not on whether personal gain can be maximised.
Debian: GNU/Linux done the Linux way
Also if I'm not mistaken Cuba aso had to appeal it's vote due to a issue. and I remember rumors that some countries there was basically 2 votes, yes, and yes with recommendations. http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/25/1715222
It only took four countries' standards bodies to get them to ... pause.
Interesting, if you're a country. "Unless you can find lobbying pals, we're not listening. Call back when you've garnered some support."
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
For OSX/Linux users it matters because we want to be interoperable and OLE requirements in OOXML mean it's tied to Windows.
For Microsoft Office users it matters because they're being gouged for 10 billion a year for (pretty much) the same software that they bought last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. They don't have competition or competitive pricing precisely because of these file format secrets.
So we've got sovereignty and democracy, choice of operating system, and a 10 billion dollar upgrade treadmill. That's why it matters in the scheme of things.
seriously. I know the ./ crowd is mainly US folk, but try to get the international stuff right once in a while.
That's right, government cheese. In a van. Down by the river.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
To be ISO9000 compliant, ISO must have written documentation outlining the procedures for being bought off. If no such documentation exists, it violates the standard.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I even submitted the story about Venezuela (which was rejected) - yet the summary gets it wronger than one can imagine..
Denmark?!
South Arica?!
> a pinhole of light at the end of the tunnel
That's not the end of the tunnel, that's just oncoming traffic.
Note: grousing about rejected submissions is Offtopic and usually gets moderated that way. It happens, don't take it personally.
Note: grousing about rejected submissions is Offtopic and usually gets moderated that way. It happens, don't take it personally.
2008-06-02 19:06:05 Venezuela, Not Denmark, Is Fourth To Appeal OOXML (Index,Microsoft) (rejected)
The recent report Denmark Becomes Fourth Nation To Protest OOXML is a bit of confusion. There have been many many protests, however the IEC acknowledges four appeals- Brazil, India, South Africa and Venezuela. It appears the letters from Denmark and Norway are being disregarded, as they come from the Chairmen of their respective Technical Committees rather than the administrative heads of the national organisations.
Ok, I won't grouse about rejected submissions. However I damn well will grouse about Slashdot editors re-posting wrong information after getting a submission informing them IT WAS WRONG THE FIRST TIME THEY RAN IT.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Well, hAl, you're not writing to OOXML because that hasn't been released, and if Microsoft Office deviated from OOXML you'd follow the cash to DOCX not OOXML.
The actual list is
South Africa
India
Brazil
Venezuela
These are the official 4 who appealed
What's the OpenDocument ISO standard (ISO/IEC 26300:2006) for?
Isn't OOXML a standard for the same thing?
Having more than one international standard doesn't make much sense.
They were gone through on some. Then when it looked like it would take years to go through them all, they were done in batches. Then when it still took too long, it was closed with "we will sort them out. trust us".
And the proposed solutions weren't discussed to see if they
a) didn't resolve the issue
b) brought in new problems
c) contradicted other parts of the standard
In no way can the BRM have been said to have addressed the comments.
They pointed out that the halt in the production of the MSOOXML standard means that according to the procedures, the fast track has failed.
Since it has failed, why protest the "yes" voting or the lack of change? The standard is dead.
No, and I don't write office software. I was joking and wanted an excuse to use the wonderful phrase 'government cheese' because it makes me laugh.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
The delay is exactly the time MSFT needs to correct any implementation issues and demonstrate that it works. I don't think this blocks the effort long-term. As some of the ANTI-MS ISO members said, this is all dramatically political and emotion; very little discussion of concrete issues was done. Time is on the side of the guy with a research budget, an economic interest, and persistance.
Argentina - a southern hemisphere Hispanic country with a lot of sun inhabited by a multitude of dark-skinned people that like soccer.
Yes, it's an easy mistake to make, isn't it?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
So just four instead of six? You notice the potential.
Could be a lot more. Works like this: NB calls on the committee to convene, Microsoft does not sent their guys as they already got their standard, a committee majority decides to file an appeal on procedural matter x. submitted. done.
Yes guys, these are just the appeals on the BRM. There is much much more to complain about. Happy hacking and let them embrace, extend and extinguish the domino...
Like you are lobbying be because you want to influence my opinion what "lobbying" means. Your example is flawed. I am not a group of people nor are you a politician. And discussing the meaning of the word "lobbying" is not a political issue.
So I dont take normal discussion, information sharing, or conversation as lobbying. Good, because it is not. So far so good.
But if I get paid from organisation or group for what I talk and I try to affect things by someone's other's benefits, that is lobbyism. As I have stated earlier, lobby activities does not require payment to be involved. The action/concept of lobbying is a part of the political system and it can be conducted by everyone if they choose to do so. Please study the Wiki article I linked to in my previous posting.
The simple fact is that OSL is a lobby organization, conducting lobby activities. And as I have said earlier there is absolutely nothing wrong about that. I salute their work and efforts.
Lobbying means that a group of people are joining forces in an attempt to influence political decisions. They might not even talk to politicians directly - that is totally irrelevant. A group conducting lobbyism is defined by its political goals.
- Jesper
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...