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Media Dustup Pits Bloggers and Wired Against NYTimes

destinyland writes "Wired magazine ran a table listing the scientific effects of prescription drugs (and one illegal drug) — leading to an accusation from the NYTimes that they were 'promoting' drug use. But this routine controversy led to a fierce pushback online from bloggers and from Wired's reporter, who discussed his past drug use on his own blog and called for an honest discussion of scientific evidence and straight talk about medical effects."

29 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. when haven't we promoted drugs? by saiha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I flip on the TV and I see people promoting drug use all the time /shrug. And some of the side affects of those make me sick just to hear it.

    1. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Substance used in moderation provides benefits, is harmful when used in excess. Film at 11.

    2. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because the manufacturers of generics don't bother advertising?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by Xyrus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Reminds of the "story" not too long ago that screamed "SMOKING POT SHRINKS YOUR BRAINS!!! OH N0ESSS!!11!"

      Of course, if you had actually dug into the details you would have found out that it was a small study that really wasn't best run, and that these people had smoked a minimum of 5 joints a day for 10 years.

      I could probably run a similar study on people who took 5 multivitamins a day over 10 years and showed that all of them either died or ended up with some pretty bad complications. Then I could write a story that says "MULTIVITAMINS WILL KILL YOU!!!!".

      What is it about drugs that set people on edge? Parents absolutely lose it if they find they're kind smoking a joint, but they don't think twice about jacking their kids up on ritalin and anti-depressants.

      Exactly what message is that sending them?

      At least get hemp legalized. Aside from the recreational use, it has so many other uses that keeping it illegal is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

      ~X~

      --
      ~X~
    4. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Of course, at least cyanide isn't phsyiologically addictive, nor are multivitamins. Guess what is?

      Alcohol.
      Tobacco.
      Oxycontin.
      Benzodiazepines (http://www.medicinenet.com/alprazolam/article.htm).

    5. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by the_humeister · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't exactly consider the overly rampant but legal use of opium in China in the late 1800s a positive development.

    6. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wouldn't exactly consider the overly rampant but legal use of opium in China in the late 1800s a positive development.

      I didn't say that drugs are good, nor did I suggest anywhere that rampant abuse of drugs is ever positive. This is exactly the kind of brainless knee-jerk non argument I did refer to. You have a position which you seek to support by taking one case that on the surface appears contradict my argument, while in truth it doesn't. Idiots with preconceived notions who half read my post and read your response will have their preconceived idiot notions reinforced. This does nothing to further rational debate.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    7. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And they lost copyright to that name after WWI so anyone can use it now. The word is trademark, moron. How can people not understand the difference? No wonder our IP laws are so fucked up. Nobody seems to have the first clue about it, yet they seem to think they do.
    8. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by phalse+phace · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yup, I agree. Turn on the t.v. and you'll see drug commercials, turn on the radio and you'll hear drug commercials, flip open a magazine and you'll see drug ads. Shit, there are drug ads everywhere. When are the NY Times going to start blaming them for 'promoting drug use'?

      It's like what Chris Rock said about the government and drugs.....

      "The government, they don't want you to use your drugs. They want you to use their drugs. So every night on t.v. you see a weird ass drug commercial trying to get you hooked on some legal shit. And they just keep naming symptoms til they get one that you fuckin' got."
    9. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's certainly worth a try. We have established that prohibition doesn't work, and in fact makes the problems worse.

      There is little evidence that prohibition is a deterrent, in fact there is some evidence that prohibition makes illicit drug use more attractive to some people, in particular risk takers like teenagers and twenty-somethings. So there is a strong case suggesting that legalisation can reduce drug abuse, or at least leave it at unchanged levels.

      What is certain is that the associated crime would drop if these drugs were legally available - why shoot people to protect a supply chain that is cheap, legal and unchallenged? Why rob people to support a cheap drug habit, or would that be any worse than alcohol related crime? Also, changing the status from bad illegal drug to legal drug that you're welcome to use but has a long list of side effects is more likely to deter peoples than keeping it illegal and just saying it's bad because it's bad. People will no doubt still abuse drugs, but accurate information is more of a deterrent to abuse than prohibition.

      Which brings me to another related point. I firmly believe that prohibition is maintained because it creates an illegal economy. I believe there are people in positions of influence who profit from the illegal drug trade who are outspoken supporters of prohibition, otherwise how could so many people be stupid enough to support a system that so obviously fails to do what it intends and oppose even debate on alternative strategies? To my mind, anyone who supports prohibition must be a drug pusher.

      But then again, maybe that's just a paranoid delusion caused by my week and a half stint of criminal THC abuse when I was injured...

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    10. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "In drug studies, they need to get the animals to self administer."

      So what is difficult about having two piles of cookies, one with dope and one without?

      I realise you have some objection to dope for some reason or other but please don't pretend science is on your side with the addiction thing or that the current laws against dope have anything to do with medical issues. The dope plant is in fact one of the most studied plants on the planet and as such we now know a great deal more about it than we did when Anslinger went on his self-serving crusade.

      The main problems with using dope are scizophernia[sic] for those who are already genetically predisposed and lung/throat disease for those who smoke rather than ingest it. As for addiction, opiates, tobacco and alcohol are physically addictive in that you will suffer physical symptoms during withdrawal. Dope, chocolate, and video games are mearly habit forming.

      Now even if smoking a joint was as foolish as playing russian roulette, under what moral/ethical imperitive do you have the right to stop me putting chocolate or battery acid into MY veins should choose to do so?

      Prohibition did not work for booze and it is not working for other drugs. Someone once said that "If we eliminate all recreational drugs people will simply spin in circles on their front lawn until they can no longer stand up, because that is what we as humans like to do".

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    11. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course, if you had actually dug into the details you would have found out that it was a small study that really wasn't best run, and that these people had smoked a minimum of 5 joints a day for 10 years.

      Now, I'm all for legalization, and think that any rational standard that allows legal consumption of alcohol would have to allow marijuana.

      But that said, I have also ran into crazed pro-pot fanatics that have the same problem as prohibitionists, in reverse: They have already decided that marijuana does no harm, and will reject any study that even hints otherwise. This is to the point of some of them even arguing that inhaling smoke from burning pot plants does no damage to your lungs. That's just as biased.

    12. Re:when haven't we promoted drugs? by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree and I can explain the motivation for the bias displayed by "crazed pro-pot fanatics". What I can't explain is the motivation for the opposite bias displayed by the far larger group of "crazed prohibitionists", particularly the sub-group of "crazed prohibitionists" who regularly (ab)use tobacco and/or alcohol.

      These so called rational and drug free individuals who are the 'pillars of society' are anything but rational when it comes to the drug trade. And it's not just the US, my country's federal police have been recently accused of deliberately allowing young Aussie drug mules to fly to Indonesia and tipping off the authorities on the other side. They now face the very real possibility of execution by firing squad. The original accuser is the farther of one of the mules who tipped off the cops several days before the flight in order to stop his son leaving the country for "dada means death" land.

      As for the study in question it doesn't take a genius to recognise that dope can fuck with a head of a heavy user, particularly if the head belongs to a teenager, a glutton (5 J's/day!!!), or someone who is already battling to remain 'sane'.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  2. Who really cares what the NYT has to say? by lawn.ninja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know I certainly don't. On that note I'm tired of all the main stream media in the US. It's all lies and talking points. Watch the news some night and flip back and forth between the channels, or better yet catch a few with the DVR at 7 and 11. Get different samples from the two time slots and tell me what's different. Nothing, other than the filler material. They even use the same verbage most of the time. So I figure this is all coming from a very small group of sources (probably AP wire considering how lazy the media is). Which means that you can't really trust it. Hell I don't know how many times recently we've seen articles about the media being duped by someone or something. So that means to me that they don't vet their stories or sources properly anymore. Fuck it, at least the ratings and the revenues are up, god forbid the profit margin shrinks.

  3. Considering...... by Anachragnome · · Score: 5, Insightful

    .......That William Randolph Hearst and his Yellow-journalism fueled the war on drugs in the first place, the Media are the LAST people I trust to provide me with reliable information in regards to drugs.

    As a matter of fact, I don't trust anyone to provide me with information regarding drugs anymore. Guv'ment included. The DEA website is so full of blatant propaganda, I find it hard to believe anyone can take it seriously

    And besides, I seriously doubt anyone has my best interests in mind more then myself.

    1. Re:Considering...... by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, thank you...
      Reminding me that the media played a large part in the initiation of the 'other war', the war on drugs.

      I'm pretty happy to have all media owners drawn and quartered... literally. Well, ok, lets find the ones complicit in hoodwinking the people at large and just do those.

      I believe their actions criminal, as much so as Bush's actions/inactions/mistruths etc.

      There is no longer any reason to trust the media. Its a sad thing to say that. They used to stand for something better than the thugs that now own them and shake their leashes.

      Bloggers are wont to report their own bias, and not check sources so you end up having to do research to find truth, but that is better than trusting those that will stab you when they get the chance to put the knife in.

    2. Re:Considering...... by RebelWithoutAClue · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no longer any reason to trust the media. Its a sad thing to say that. They used to stand for something better than the thugs that now own them and shake their leashes. There never was a reason to trust the media. There just used to be nothing to check them against. That has changed recently.
      --
      "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
  4. "like heroin and pot" by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Truly illegal drugs (like heroin and pot)are Schedule I.


    It's a sad commentary on the stupidity of our drug laws that heroin and marijuana get lumped into the same category.
    1. Re:"like heroin and pot" by trawg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... and that alcohol and tobacco isn't alongside them.

      (not saying they should be illegal, just pointing it out)

    2. Re:"like heroin and pot" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pot doesn't have a great safety record Actually it does. Not a single documented case of overdose.
    3. Re:"like heroin and pot" by MrDERP · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Heron is not a harmful drug when it is pure, measured accurately and injected by a Dr/Nurse just another morphine type..(diacetly-morphine) Dilaudid (hydromorphone ) and Fentanyl are actually more addictive and more sought after by junkies. Heroin physically is Really not bad for your body when used in this way but EXTREMELY ADDICTIVE!!!!!!!!!! like too hard for a lot of people to ever quit.

    4. Re:"like heroin and pot" by Kattspya · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What kind of idiotic reasoning is that? Is there even a known case of a tobacco user accidently getting a fatal overdose of nicotine from comercially produced tobacco?

      If you'd talked about nicotines effects on the cardiovascular system or other health effects you would at least have had a point. But calling nicotine bad because taking 50+ doses at the same time could be fatal is idiotic.

  5. drugs and honesty by drDugan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is almost impossible to have a large discussion about drugs and medical effects in the public sphere. There is a massive, taxpayer funded multi-media campaign from the U.S. federal government that has for many years taught a large fraction of the public a series of messages about drugs that are just plain false. Almost anyone with significant experience with using these same drugs knows this to be the case, but their voices are typically marginalized or not taken seriously.

  6. Sometimes, old things just need to die by hyades1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ever since it failed to address its support for the Bush administration with respect to the invasion of Iraq, the New York Times has become steadily less relevant. I don't know whether they believe only old, right-wing fossils still read newspapers or whether they're having trouble recruiting quality staff on the wages they're willing to pay. Whatever the problem, they should either fix it, or just turn out the lights and go home.

    Wired has always published its share of articles written with a smart-ass or tongue-in-cheek tone, and its audience both likes them and understands that they're not intended to be taken as gospel. The Times reviewer is clearly from the "full body armour to ride a bicycle" school of saving us all from ourselves.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  7. Re:LOLOUTRAGE!!1!11! by Anti_Climax · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If even one weak person was swayed to a life of addiction by Wired's advice to "do the right drugs," Conde Nast has done evil.
    If it's come to that, we all might as well fold our hands and wait to die.

    Some people make good choices in life, some make poor ones. If a kid gets hooked on meth because of a mention in Wired, there's a certainly a problem; it's definitely not with Wired.
    --
    Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
  8. Re:LOLOUTRAGE!!1!11! by eikonos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the previous poster's point, which you missed, is that if a person is so gullible that they'll do something just because they read about it somewhere, then we might as well give up and wait to die. The point is that people have to be smart enough to do a bit of research and think a little bit for themselves.

  9. Re:LOLOUTRAGE!!1!11! by Anti_Climax · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can tell you with absolute certainty that my view on free will is not going to be changed by my child making a poor decision in the future.

    If we have to temper everything we say in the public sphere based on the reaction of the lowest common denominator of society, we're going nowhere fast.

    The world is full of pitfalls and dangerous stuff. There's no end to the stuff that could hurt or kill you. But pretending that stuff doesn't exist isn't going to keep people safe from it.

    --
    Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
  10. Re:LOLOUTRAGE!!1!11! by Fx.Dr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Honestly, if a magazine article does a better job at getting your kids hooked on drugs than you are at keeping them off, I'm placing the blame solely on YOU, the parent. Stop passing the buck.

  11. Most people who abuse drugs self-medicate... by msimm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe if we taught them that they'd choose medication or coping-skills over addiction.

    When you start to view balanced information as promotion you've clearly lost your way.

    --
    Quack, quack.