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Ionospheric Interference With GPS Signals

Roland Piquepaille writes "In recent years, we have become increasingly dependent on applications using the Global Positioning System, such as railway control, highway traffic management, emergency response, and commercial aviation. But the American Geophysical Union warns us that we can't always trust our GPS gadgets because 'electrical activity in the... ionosphere can tamper with signals from GPS satellites.' However, new research studies are under way and 'may lead to regional predictions of reduced GPS reliability and accuracy.'" Roland's blog has useful links and a summary of a free introduction, up at the AGU site, to a special edition of the journal Space Weather with seven articles (not free) regarding ionospheric effects on GPS.

127 comments

  1. Time to declare war? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The electrons in the ionosphere must be terrorists!

    1. Re:Time to declare war? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YOU'RE a terrorist.

    2. Re:Time to declare war? by Hasmanean · · Score: 1

      Actually, there is some speculation that the Van Allen belts were the result of high altitude nuclear explosions in the 1950s. The Van Allen belts were discovered in 1958.

      They are not terrorists, they are the result of the cold war superpower arms race.

      --
      Hasan
    3. Re:Time to declare war? by Kagura · · Score: 1

      Actually, there is some speculation that the Van Allen belts were the result of high altitude nuclear explosions in the 1950s.

      Yeah, and there is some speculation that large-scale structure in the universe is actually governed by electric and magnetic influences, rather than gravity. :) But let's get a grip, the Van Allen belts are caused by natural processes. Although entirely separate from the Van Allen belts, if you read the page on the Starfish Prime nuclear test, it explains:

      There have been nuclear tests in space that have caused artificial radiation belts. Starfish Prime, a high altitude nuclear test, created an artificial radiation belt that damaged or destroyed as many as one third of the satellites in low earth orbit at the time, including the first commercial communication satellite, Telstar.

  2. Oblig. by elguillelmo · · Score: 3, Funny

    Tinfoil hats ahoy!

    --
    Dawkins Revisited: A person is shit's way of making more shit -- Steve Barnett, anthropologist.
    1. Re:Oblig. by WormholeFiend · · Score: 2, Informative
  3. 4th reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    that is also completely worthless

  4. Dual Frequency by Detritus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I thought that was why the military version of GPS used two frequencies. From what I've read, it allows them to measure the actual propagation delay through the ionosphere, instead of relying on the static delay prediction model used in the single frequency mode used by civilians and those without a crypto-keyed military GPS receiver.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    1. Re:Dual Frequency by Rakshasa+Taisab · · Score: 0

      I thought the military used a second frequency because the public one is intentionally made less precise in war zones.

      --
      - These characters were randomly selected.
    2. Re:Dual Frequency by Criliric · · Score: 2, Informative

      less precise everywhere actually

    3. Re:Dual Frequency by DRobson · · Score: 0

      If I understand it correctly, there is a predictable pattern of error introduced into the publicly available signal. If you know the key of the day you should be able to remove the introduced error. Also, I believe there is an ability to introduce more substantial error at will. Take it with a grain of salt, vague recollections of wikipedia a few nights back.

    4. Re:Dual Frequency by apilin · · Score: 0, Redundant

      good

    5. Re:Dual Frequency by jrumney · · Score: 3, Informative

      I thought they'd stopped injecting error as a routine measure a few years back. It is so easy to get around that I doubt it serves any military purpose, even for relatively unsophisticated enemies.

    6. Re:Dual Frequency by DRobson · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yeah, it appears so. In order for the random error to be useful for non-military use the error had to be somewhat uniform across large regions. So, once you established the error on one known point you were pretty right.

      Also, it looks like military personnel ended up buying there own civilian units a large percentage of the time with obvious problems.

      Looks like it was officially disabled around 2000 or so.

    7. Re:Dual Frequency by Shipwack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's one of the reasons. The second one being, as someone else has mentioned, that one used to be more precise and encrypted, with the other being less precise and for civilians. There is no longer any distortion applied to the civilian band, and with differential GPS now available, it's a moot point (at least where DGPS is available).

      Ionosphere interference is reduced by using two frequencies. The higher frequency shifts less when it enters the ionosphere. Both frequencies are compared by the receiver, and a correction applied.

    8. Re:Dual Frequency by alx5000 · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia agrees with you. The main problem with error injection was the proliferation of commercial-grade GPS receivers among military personnel: the US Army couldn't afford to equip everyone with a military-grade receiver, so the soldiers started buying them themselves.

      And if I'm not mistaken, they were considering to enable it again, but the FAA asked them not to, since aircraft use it to better state their position (I'm sorry for any factual inaccuracy, but I'm just a Spaniard with a limited understanding of how the system works and the US agencies involved).

      --
      My 0.02 cents
    9. Re:Dual Frequency by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think scarcity was driving the conversion that much; I found PLGRs pretty common in the Army while I was in (1998-2005). However, the main draw to commercial GPS products was that the PLGR had a fucking awful UI and was about the size of a hardbound dictionary. The internal hardware and screen was hopelessly out of date by the time it was in common usage. Entering numbers by pressing UP/DOWN? No visual map? A control scheme that required a knowledgeable or at least technologically apt soldier to? Fuck that! If there's a navigation tool for my squad, I need everyone in the squad to be able to use it. If I'm the only one that can make use of it and I go down, it's instantly become useless.

      That's not to say that it was a total piece of shit. It was water-proof and pretty durable. It was really extensible; it could be plugged into a variety of other things, which made them really useful *if* you had the proper hardware. The problem was that all the needed gear to take full advantage of it required a vehicle to transport and provide power. The PLGR was a fantastic piece of gear for anyone but the infantry. Problem is, there's a hell of a lot more infantry that needs coordination on the ground than there is anyone else. So, many of us bought our own.

    10. Re:Dual Frequency by Comboman · · Score: 1

      The PLGR has been replaced by the DAGR which addresses many of the problems you described.

      --
      Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    11. Re:Dual Frequency by tlhIngan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And if I'm not mistaken, they were considering to enable it again, but the FAA asked them not to, since aircraft use it to better state their position (I'm sorry for any factual inaccuracy, but I'm just a Spaniard with a limited understanding of how the system works and the US agencies involved).


      Less positioning, more navigation. GPS is rapidly becoming (if it hasn't already) a level 1 navigational device (trustable on its own). Right now, it's level 2, which means it's good for general use, but must be compared against another source of navigational information (VORs, etc). The reason is, GPS is cheap compared to maintaining the entire network of VORs and NDBs (and sometimes LORAN) equipment.

      The other issue is that if they degrade the GPS accuracy, there is a huge loss - a number of airports have instrument approaches that rely on GPS, and good GPS units can often be used at lower minimums than regular ILS approaches (not landings, though, for obvious reasons). Airports are happy with GPS approaches because they're cheap, they avoid having to maintain expensive ILS equipment. Thus there are a number of GPS-approach-only airports (the requirements are quite strict - WAAS must be available, and enough GPS satellites must be available to compensate for satellite irregularity. Aviation GPSes that are certifiable for instrument approaches have calculators that can tell you if an approach is possible at the destination based on current GPS almanac data).

      If they started degrading GPS again, the impact on aviation would be quite significant.

      The other thing is WAAS. FAA wanted a way to compensate for GPS signal degradation, so they had WAAS put in, which broadcasts correction data... from the GPS satellite! (That's why most modern GPS receivers can pick up WAAS easily - the satellite is already transmitting the information, so picking up the WAAS information is trivial). Of course, if you degrate the main GPS signal and don't degrade WAAS, the whole exercise is pointless.

      (DGPS requires an external receiver - higher end units have a bidirectional serial port so they can transmit NMEA data to a host, but also receive a DGPS correction data from a DGPS receiver, which is why almost no GPS come with built in DGPS - it doesn't come "for free" like WAAS does).
    12. Re:Dual Frequency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that was why the military version of GPS used two frequencies. From what I've read, it allows them to measure the actual propagation delay through the ionosphere, instead of relying on the static delay prediction model used in the single frequency mode used by civilians and those without a crypto-keyed military GPS receiver.

      I thought they'd stopped injecting error as a routine measure a few years back. It is so easy to get around that I doubt it serves any military purpose, even for relatively unsophisticated enemies. You're both right: military GPS receivers use two frequencies, and so are able to completely remove ionospheric error. Selective Availability (SA), the feature that injected errors into the unencrypted "civilian" signal has been off since 2000. However, civilian receivers are still only able to use that one signal, which exists only on one frequency, and so are unable to correct for ionospheric error the way military receivers are. There are actually some very high-end civilian receivers that are able to use the encrypted military signals to correct for ionospheric errors without decrypting them, but they're extremely expensive. The good news is that the next version of GPS will add a second civilian signal on a second frequency, allowing civilian receivers to completely eliminate ionospheric error the way military receivers already do. Some of these new [block IIF] satellites are already flying, but not enough to provide full coverage.
    13. Re:Dual Frequency by Redneck+Flyboy · · Score: 1

      The other thing is WAAS. FAA wanted a way to compensate for GPS signal degradation, so they had WAAS put in, which broadcasts correction data... from the GPS satellite! (That's why most modern GPS receivers can pick up WAAS easily - the satellite is already transmitting the information, so picking up the WAAS information is trivial). Of course, if you degrate the main GPS signal and don't degrade WAAS, the whole exercise is pointless.

      The WAAS satellites are not GPS satellites. First off the WAAS sats are commercial not military and are multi-purpose, the FAA / DOT just leases bandwidth on these birds. Second the WAAS sats are geosynchronous (but the GPS sats are not). Note: None of this invalidates your basic argument that WAAS is "free" as compared to traditional DGPS.

      Sources are many but these will do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System
      --
      "Maintain thy airspeed, lest the ground rise up and smite thee." - Unknown
    14. Re:Dual Frequency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The PLGR was supposed to be phased out well before it actually was. There was a PLGR II as a follow on to the PLGR which a handful of special ops guys in the US had, as well as a number of English and Australian troops. It was a big improvement over the PLGR (could lock >5 SVs, direct Y acquisition, etc.) but never made it into wide circulation in the US due to various red tape issues. The PLGR II was followed on by the DAGR which, with respect to UI, is much closer to what you'd expect in a Garmin you pick up at the local outdoors/sporting goods store. Bureaucracy being what it is, the original timetable for what eventually became DAGR, had the unit originally set for production during the late 90s.

    15. Re:Dual Frequency by Hasmanean · · Score: 1

      Actually even civilians can use the second frequency to determine ionospheric delay. You do not have to actually decrypt the military signal just to use it to check the delay of the L1 signal.

      --
      Hasan
    16. Re:Dual Frequency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention its pretty useless. You either use consistent error, i.e entire area is offset by N, which means you just need to find out where you really are and find out where gps says you are and then correct for it

      Or you randomize it, offsetting everything by a random amount of meters within say 3-5..so they get multiple gps units and average the readings. Use of dead reckoning would help a lot here.

    17. Re:Dual Frequency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep.

      At the moment a new civilian signal (L2C) is being added on the same carrier frequency as the military signal. When all these new GPS satellites are launched (there's 2 or 3 flying about now, I think it will be complete in ~2012) civilian users will also be able to remove the ionospheric error.

      Of course the military gets their own new signal too.

  5. Re:Hans Reiser ESCAPES !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'd run too if your cellie called you "Riser".

  6. Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    More Roland fest! Why doesn't SourceForge just hire the guy? Good grief! Who's he giving blow jobs to?

    1. Re:Good Grief! by jacquesm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      why is his stuff getting this insane posting ratio on ./ ? Since march 21st of this year 20+ accepted submissions ??

    2. Re:Good Grief! by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Funny

      I for one welcome our new Roland Overlord. May he pour hit grits down Natalie Portman's shorts, I'll take a Beowulf cluster of that! I'll bet in Soviet Russia they can't even get Roland. But one thing is for sure, he does run Linux. And all these stories of his on Slashdot almost certainly result in Profit!

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    3. Re:Good Grief! by Nullav · · Score: 2, Funny

      Look on the bright side: Roland's blog-spam gets the editors to edit submissions somewhat.

      --
      I just read Slashdot for the articles.
    4. Re:Good Grief! by owlnation · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agreed. Slashdot editors take note: a lot of people here do not think Roland is neither intelligent enough nor qualified to be making /. at all, but 20+ articles in a few months is a total disgrace. There are many people here who absolutely hate this guy and the off-the-wall, irrelevant, discovery-channel-level science, garbage he writes. Showing bias towards him is going to hurt you long term, it's already losing you respect.

    5. Re:Good Grief! by Psychotria · · Score: 1
      Did you not read the link to his blog? The answer is right there at the bottom of the article:

      A final note: if you own - or use - a GPS device, bookmark this excellent article.
    6. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Showing bias towards him is going to hurt you long term, it's already losing you respect.
      Respect? Slashdot "Editors"? Been drinkin' tonight?
    7. Re:Good Grief! by caluml · · Score: 0, Troll

      I don't see any problem with Roland's postings. Do you not like him because he is French, or some other banal reason?
      Submit your own super-interesting stories if you have better ones.

    8. Re:Good Grief! by zeromorph · · Score: 1

      I don't want to make the Roland here, but what's your problem with Roland Pick-a-pie?

      I guess Roland is just a new name for that entity Anonymous Coward that we all love and respect for its valuable contributions to our beloved slashdot. What would a day on slashdot be without goatse, first post and Roland postings

      --
      "Hannibal's plans never work right. They just work." Amy/A-Team
    9. Re:Good Grief! by jacquesm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Let me spell it out for you, I'll ignore your strawman about me not liking him 'because he's french', I don't know what prompted you to say that, it lowers the discussion level:

      Roland has an extremely high ratio of postings and a *much* higher ratio of accepted postings. So much higher that for the longest time I figured he was a sockpuppet for one of the ./ editors. Once you start noticing and analyze the quantities of stories getting rejected from other members, the quality of those stories and how many of Rolands stories get accepted and the quality of *those* stories then you really can't help but wonder what the game is here.

      The discrepancy is too large to be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

      After all, the ./ firehose gives you a pretty good idea of which stories make the grade and which don't (besides of course a guaranteed placement of dupes ;) ), and it allows you to get a good idea of the average submission quality of stories that eventually don't make it.

      The standards that most postings are held to would mean that *none* of Rolands postings would have been accepted, they are the very definition of blog spam.

      Something is smelly here, even if I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's time to do some scripting to get some real hard stats on this whole thing.

    10. Re:Good Grief! by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I don't see any problem with Roland's postings. Do you not like him because he is French, or some other banal reason?

      I don't like him becasue he plagiarises stories from other sites, copies them to his blog, then submits to Slashdot. He's just trying, and succeeding, in pumping up his pagerank. Originally he used to ONLY link to his blog. There were many complaints about that, eventually he started also giving the original link, but he always adds his blog link as well. He's a parasite.

    11. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's French?

    12. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I don't see any problem with Roland's postings. Do you not like him because he is French, or some other banal reason?

      No, but you gave me another reason to dislike him!

      My bet is, slashdot editors own shares in some sites - count the number of networkworld posts. Its like slashdot is the frontpage for nww and roland.

    13. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The standards that most postings are held to would mean that *none* of Rolands postings would have been accepted, they are the very definition of blog spam.

      Have you read a lot of the stuff that's sitting over on the firehose? If by "standards" you mean "writing quality that would make a third grader shameful," then yes, by all means it is of "high standards." Sorry, but a lot of the writing found over there is abysmal. At least with Roland's writing, it actually is written well. He may not be the brightest techwriter out there, but at least he has the ability to write. Which is a lot more than can be said for most other bloggers.

    14. Re:Good Grief! by caluml · · Score: 1

      Let me spell it out for you, I'll ignore your strawman about me not liking him 'because he's french', I don't know what prompted you to say that, it lowers the discussion level: I wasn't trying to troll - I just couldn't think of any other reasons off the top of my head.
      However, I must say that I don't spend a lot of time analysing the balance of quality of stories to the chance of them being accepted, so I'll have to defer to your superiour knowledge in this area :)
      I just look at the stories, and see if I like them. I happen to be a Radio Ham, so this one is of interest to me.
    15. Re:Good Grief! by caluml · · Score: 1

      Well, that's a fair reason, I suppose.
      However - why shouldn't he get a little PR for supplying Slashdot with stories?
      After all, we'd be moaning in hours if there weren't any stories posted.

    16. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obvious the Slashdot editors don't care that people don't like Roland. Note how the delete any tagging of Roland articles. To me that's a clear sign of bad faith.

    17. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It has gone beyond bias. Now the editors are explicitly shilling for Roland's "other" blog by mentioning it in editorial comments following the story posting and describing it as having "useful links."

      Although elsewhere in this thread someone questioned another's dislike of Roland as based on the fact that he is French, I will go on record by stating that my dislike is based on the quality of his writing and inexplicable ability to have low-quality submissions hit the main page.

    18. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget Greek and corporophagia!

    19. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but does he blend?

    20. Re:Good Grief! by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      However - why shouldn't he get a little PR for supplying Slashdot with stories?

      Every submitter gets one link, on his name. He pimps his site with the bogus "for more information" one he puts at the end (in this case the slashdot editors have, unusually, added the original link, if you compare with the firehose version.

      Anyway, it's a bit like RealNetworks, there is a lot of residual mistrust after seeing how they exploited their access, and a feeling not to trust them an inch again.

      After all, we'd be moaning in hours if there weren't any stories posted.

      Look at the firehose. There is no shortage of stories.

    21. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      discovery-channel-level science there's no need to insult Discovery channel by comparing it to Roland!
    22. Re:Good Grief! by ozbird · · Score: 1

      "a lot of people here think that Roland is neither intelligent enough nor qualified to be making /. submissions at all" - fixed that for you (unless you are a sneaky Roland fan exploiting a double negative.)

    23. Re:Good Grief! by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      no need to do much analyzing, just use the slider in the firehose, it will give you an excellent idea of the number of quality postings vs the number of lousy ones.

  7. GPS is digital! by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 0

    We can reasonably rely on GPS as the signals sent are digital. If you receive them, then they are (supposed to be) correct.
    The only problem could be when you don't receive any signal. But this is a different story.

    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
    1. Re:GPS is digital! by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Digital wont save you if the ionosphere gets hit by a solar flare. I've seen signals from satellites that were strong, but hopeleesly scrambled, when the signal path went through a stormy section of the ionosphere.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:GPS is digital! by canavan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The data encoded in the signal is digital, however, the location information is derived from the timing of the signal, something that changes depending on the medium (i.e. the distance within the atmosphere the signal has to travel and the precise compisition and electrical conditions therein). I thought that ionospheric corrections were something that was part of the WAAS standard, or at least something that tended to be corrected by using WAAS. The wikipedia article lists this as part of "slow" corrections.

    3. Re:GPS is digital! by borizz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thats not how GPS works however. The satellites hum a digital tune. The receiver hums the same tune. It then measures how much later the sat's tune is heard. With this and the speed of light you can calculate how far the satellite is from you. Get distances to three sats and you can triangulate your position.

      So you might hear the tune fine, but if the ionosphere delays the tune every so slightly, your reading will be off and your position will be inaccurate.

    4. Re:GPS is digital! by spandex_panda · · Score: 5, Informative
      Actually this is not true. The digital code modulated onto the radio waves is affected by the ionosphere too. The military gets 2 'code' signals on 2 frequencies, but geodetic or surveying GPS gear observes the 'phase' of the frequencies, there are L1 and L2 frequencies which are observable and you can combine them to cancel out the ionospheric effects. Observing everything, civilian code, carrier frequencies, military P codes, can give you a single point precision of a couple of cm in horizontal (an inch for you yanks) and something like 3 times that in vertical.

      Just receiving a digital signal doesn't mean its right!

      --
      like phosphorescent desert buttons singing one familiar song
    5. Re:GPS is digital! by spandex_panda · · Score: 1

      nice. The interesting thing is that over an area of a few kilometers, the error from ionosphere is the same, so if we get a station with known coordinates and calculate the difference between these and the GPS coordinates with the ionosphere error, we can send this error to a 'rover' and correct it to get much better accuracy!

      --
      like phosphorescent desert buttons singing one familiar song
    6. Re:GPS is digital! by migloo · · Score: 0

      Positioning relies not on the contents of the signal but on its delay reaching your receiver. Being digital is irrelevant. Ionospheric propagation speed variations introduce an error of 300m for each microsecond difference in the signal reception time.

    7. Re:GPS is digital! by Nullav · · Score: 1

      Either way, wouldn't you be a bit suspicious if you were suddenly in Antarctica?

      Why not just calculate based on the reported velocity of the vehicle, 'pinging' satellites every minute or so and simply dropping anything that puts you in Antarctica?
      Trains? Anything that puts a train a certain distance off the track could be dropped. The acceptable values would have to be manually defined, however. Results could also be checked against reports from evenly-spaced receiver towers, with each train constantly broadcasting its ID.
      People? A lot of us use phones for GPS, rather than dedicated receivers. It doesn't seem at all unreasonable to fall back on cell towers.

      Actually, I think #1/3 are being done.

      --
      I just read Slashdot for the articles.
    8. Re:GPS is digital! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...And because your post is stored in digital format in slashdot's database, you must be correct.

    9. Re:GPS is digital! by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 2, Informative

      Four satellites, actually. You have to resolve the position in all three dimensions, unless your receiver has an altimeter and incorporates that into its calculations.

    10. Re:GPS is digital! by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Why not just calculate based on the reported velocity of the vehicle, 'pinging' satellites every minute or so and simply dropping anything that puts you in Antarctica? Because that is not what happens. TFA (and the F does _not_ stand for "fine" in this case) claims that "your GPS cannot be trusted". It can. Ionospheric interference has been well known since the initial design of GPS. It is one of several factors that introduce a few meters of inaccuracy into the GPS in your TomTom, and all these factors add up to about ten meters of inaccuracy. It doesn't put you into Antarctica - and since your GPS calculates a four-dimensional position (x, y, z and time), the chances that any drastic inaccuracy like that would put you on the _surface_ of the earth in Antarctica are quite small.

      And even if a signal is totally messed up, as soon as you receive five signals the GPS _knows_ that something is wrong.
    11. Re:GPS is digital! by borizz · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can kind of assume where the receiver is. You get 2 possible locations with 3 sats, one will be where you are, and one will be up or down from where you are. Pick the location that is most likely and work from there. For example, the railway use in the summary pretty much guarantees that the trains will not go flying any time soon.
      Aviation can go both ways, but planes do come with altimeters.

    12. Re:GPS is digital! by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 1

      True enough. I was thinking about mostly hand-held units which probably don't have full contour maps for the world. Although as technology improves, that's beginning to be not so true.

    13. Re:GPS is digital! by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Just receiving a digital signal doesn't mean its right!
      That reminds me... I went into a (wooden) floor store for a hygrometer. The salesgirl showed a couple of models, one of them being a digital one. So she said, "this one is digital, so it's more accurate because it shows the humidity with one decimal".
      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    14. Re:GPS is digital! by borizz · · Score: 1

      My cheap hand-held unit, a Garmin Etrex Legend (which is at least 7 year old technology by now, and retails for about a hundred dollars), just assumes that I am at the position which is nearest to sea level. Which is a valid assumption, considering it's a trekking GPS, and not an aviation one. But, I have had my GPS report my position as -10 meters while I was at approx. 200 meters above sea level (in France). But that usually only lasts a few minutes and a bit of common sense can rule that out as invalid. Still, you're right. You need 4 sats for a true "3D" position fix.
      I think people who depend on correct altitude information should spend some more money and get a GPS with a barometric altimeter.

      Also, I am not really interested in my altitude. I live in the Netherlands, where the highest elevation around in most places is a curb. :)

    15. Re:GPS is digital! by polywaffle · · Score: 1

      I know my gps has a setting that keeps the position locked to the road, so assuming that im always going to be using it for driving it works for correcting really obvious errors.

    16. Re:GPS is digital! by pragma_x · · Score: 1

      I've seen signals from satellites that were strong, but hopeleesly scrambled, when the signal path went through a stormy section of the ionosphere.
      But at least you knew the transmission was scrambled since the data failed to align with the required protocol (e.g. a bad checksum, no magic number, etc.). I think this is what the OP was referring to. If you can get any data from the transmission after the signal has been processed, it's highly likely that its good data.
    17. Re:GPS is digital! by afidel · · Score: 1

      Actually you can usually get a good approximation using two satellites because the other solution is either in space or inside the planet.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    18. Re:GPS is digital! by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, also, you need to take relativistic distortion into account. General relativity speeds up the atomic clocks (due to less gravity) and special relativity slows down the clocks (due to their velocity); add them together, and the clocks run about 28 microseconds slower than they would sitting beside you on Earth.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    19. Re:GPS is digital! by CXI · · Score: 1

      That's called Differential GPS, although WAAS is more commonly available on consumer units.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_GPS

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waas

    20. Re:GPS is digital! by crumley · · Score: 1

      If you can get any data from the transmission after the signal has been processed, it's highly likely that its good data.

      The real problem isn't so much distortion of the signal in the ionosphere, which seems to be what you are getting at. The problem is that variations in the ionosphere change how long it takes for signals to get through the ionosphere. This is obviously a problem for GPS since it relies on timing the signals in order to calculate positions.

      --
      Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
    21. Re:GPS is digital! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly right.

      WAAS and DGPS both use ground based stations (of known location, obviously) to determine GPS error and correct for it. A modern GPS unit with WAAS turned on will query the WAAS sat to get a correction matrix for its location based on all the nearby ground stations that are reporting to the WAAS sat.

    22. Re:GPS is digital! by gplus · · Score: 1

      one will be where you are, and one will be up or down from where you are. This is not completely accurate: It's enough to say "the other one will be up". It will be somewhere on the other side of the satellite's orbit, like a mirror of your real position on earth.

      The GPS receiver do not need to pick the most likely location of the two. Because it does not really calculate positions at all. It calculates your *new* position, based on an assumed position (which it updates every time it calculates a new position). This is why a cold start of a receiver can take a long time.

      Anyway. If I could just demolish all these damned surrounding buildings, I would always have more than 3 sats available when I go out the door.

    23. Re:GPS is digital! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to be a jerk, but it's the speed of sound not light.

    24. Re:GPS is digital! by borizz · · Score: 1

      Actually, no you can't.

      If you know your distance to one sat, and you know that sat's location, you can draw a mental sphere with radius your_distance around it. You must be somewhere on that sphere.
      Now, if you know your distance (and location of) of another sat, you have another sphere where you can be on. Obviously, you cannot be in two places at the same time. So the intersection of those spheres must be where you are.
      The problem is this: Intersect two spheres and you get a circle! You can be on any spot in that circle. This does not give you a complete position.
      You can assume a third sphere: Earth. If the earth were perfectly round (and you were on it), you would have two possible positions (intersect three spheres and you get 2 points).
      Aside from the 2 possible locations problem, the Earth isn't round. It has mountains and valleys. This means that the earth sphere is not well defined, and can intersect along multiple places with the circle. Even if you had altitude info (which you do not get from 2 sat GPS) and good contour maps of the Earth, you can not be sure where the correct intersection point is (there might be multiple, if you are in a valley, for example).

      All this combined is why 2-sat GPS does not give you a position. All it could reliably tell you is which hemisphere you are on.

    25. Re:GPS is digital! by afidel · · Score: 1

      You're correct, I was thinking 3 satellites vs 4, it's been a while since I did this stuff =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  8. Re:Hans Reiser ESCAPES !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, no. Roland Piquepaille is a joke, we get it. It just gets old fast.

  9. What about timekeeping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Is this likely to affect GPS based reference time sources?

    My understanding is that you need to see a constellation of 4 sattelites to get accurate time. Use 3 to pinpoint your exact position, and then use that knowledge, and your knowledge of the 4th sattelite's position, to compensate for the delay in receiving the time signal.

    If the precision of your position lock is degrated or unreliable, would the decreased precision of the reference time be enough to cause problems?

    1. Re:What about timekeeping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not the way GPS time works. The assumption is that the time in your receiver is never accurate, so a time offset must always be calculated. With 4 received satellite signals you have 4 equations for 4 unknowns (x,y,z and time offset), a system that can easily be solved.
      So you always need a cluster of 4 satellites minimum for an accurate position (and time). A degraded signal will decrease the accuracy of both position and time; it is not the inaccuracy in position that causes the inaccuracy in time.

    2. Re:What about timekeeping? by statemachine · · Score: 1

      Just what application are you running for that kind of time precision? Some people need it, most don't.

      If you absolutely need it, survey exactly where your receiver's location is, and use that to figure out the time offset. Of course, the more satellites, the better, but degradation won't be as much an issue. But if you're putting your receiver in a place with very limited sky, you may need to reassess your options.

  10. Re:Hans Reiser ESCAPES !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope, it's Paris, Texas, that's the inside joke. No, not that.

  11. However, if you're a Ham.... by caluml · · Score: 4, Interesting

    However, amateur radio people such as myself rub their hands with glee, as a reflective ionosphere means good DX :)
    I check the "Space dials" regularly, and can't wait for them to be in the red! 73s.

  12. The ionosphere can change rapidly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    The ionosphere has a daily cycle plus variations due to the sun's radiation. Also, the ionosphere varies depending on location. For instance, the E layer is highly variable depending on time and position. It is very hard to correct for.

    For those who don't know how the ionosphere affects GPS, here's a quote from one of the articles tfa links to:

    However, the GPS signals must transit the ionosphere to communicate with ground receivers. This transit introduces signal propagation errors because the ionosphere affects the propagation speed and direction of all radio signals (including GPS). In addition, electron density irregularities in the ionosphere can introduce amplitude and phase fluctuations, a process known as scintillation.
    http://www.agu.org/journals/sw/swa/free/newarticle/?id=2008SW000400
  13. This could be dangerous ... by casab1anca · · Score: 1

    ... for instance, if you're trying to locate some place in an emergency - you might be led astray by a wrong signal. That's the problem with technology - although it can do amazing things, you never know when it'll fail. (or to put it the Murphy way - it'll fail when you need it the most)

    1. Re:This could be dangerous ... by camperdave · · Score: 1

      It's not as if this is new. This ionospheric interference has always existed. If you had a ten metre accuracy before, you'll have a ten metre accuracy still.

      What *IS* new is that scientists are using this GPS inaccuracy to map the ionosphere.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:This could be dangerous ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last cycle peaked 5.5 years ago and I used a GPS through the last cycle and didnt have catastrophic failure. I suppose if the article doesn't propagate fear then people won't read it.

  14. Mid-latitudes by mokeyboy · · Score: 1

    Its been a while since I last was doing this for a living (http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/sp) but in general, this does not does have a significant effect in the mid-latitude regions of the world (think temperate climate regions). In equatorial regions, the effects on GPS are more likely to be associated with the troposhere (rainstorms and the like). Yes, there are high-latitude regions (auroral storms) that face problems but I usually operated under the assumption that this was generally: 1) more important to nuclear subs lurking in the poles 2) of diminishing consequence when rated against inductive current effects such as suffered by electric production systems (http://arc.iki.rssi.ru/mirrors/stern/Education/FAQs6.html#q81). Space weather events are more likely to be severe in impact because relativistic particles embed in satellite electronics and cause havoc, rather than Earth bound events.

  15. One more reason.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not to get an iPhone... "I see your reality distortion field, and I raise you one electrically active ionosphere!"

  16. second amendment by stripyd · · Score: 2, Funny
    And we "trust" the GPS which the US Government controls the big OFF switch to because....?

    Fortunately we have the right to bear sextants.

    Now which button on this Tom Tom gives me the GHA of the first point of aries?

    1. Re:second amendment by Rosey25 · · Score: 1

      Wow - first point of aries. Is there anyone left who knows what to do with that?

  17. Aviation uses RAIM by JayFlatland · · Score: 1

    For years, aviation has been using technology called RAIM. With enough satellites, position is over-specified and can be checked for self-consistency.

    --
    Badgers? Badgers! We don't need no stinkin' Badgers!
    1. Re:Aviation uses RAIM by Discoflamingo13 · · Score: 1

      RAIM just gives you a measure of statistical confidence in your position based on pseudorange measurements, allowing you to exclude signals from bad GPS satellites - if all of your pseudoranges are off because of ionospheric interference, you would never know that that is your error source without additional aiding (inertial and/or radio navigation) in low satellite availability areas.

  18. No Problems for me... by Frightened_Turtle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Doesn't cause any problems for me. Sometimes I've got just a few feet of accuracy in my position, other times it's 10's of feet. I guess it would cause issues with my home-made cruise missle, though...

    Aviation has used VOR navigation for decades, developed during WWII. And the US Government has a big OFF switch for that, too. Part of pilot training is knowing how to navigate when all the fancy gadgets are offline. Because you never know when a system will fail.

    I just view this as a confirmation of what I've noticed before: that sometimes the signals aren't as good as others. Fortunately, I have a computer that is capable of recognizing the situation and performing the necessary error correction on the fly. I call it my brain.

    --


    Whew! This water sure is cold!
  19. You know what this mean... by Carl.E.Pierre · · Score: 1

    The ionosphere has to go down. Now all we need is some sort of death ray, hmmm.

  20. Re:Hans Reiser ESCAPES !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I (think I) do, but only because "Ich sprach ein venig Deutsch", so I suppose it is required prerequisite.

  21. Re:Dual Frequency - Not just for the military by mkramer · · Score: 1

    We've designed civilian receivers that use the L2 signal for correction, too, using the carrier wave, avoiding having to decrypt P code.

    Not something you'll find in your Garmin or iPhone 3G, but not horrible uncommon in high-end survey equipment.

  22. Hence WAAS by RJFerret · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've used GPS receivers since 2001 almost daily (I was even featured on CBS news geocaching). A LOT has changed in that time, but WAAS is a brilliant feature all GPSrs now incorporate, that totally adjusts for ionospheric disturbances, by broadcasting corrections from ground stations.

    In geocaching, the greater the accuracy the better. For car navigation, you don't even need it, as the accuracy is better than the width of a road regardless!

    This article seems to be a decade behind... -Randy

    1. Re:Hence WAAS by vjoel · · Score: 1

      For car navigation, you don't even need it, as the accuracy is better than the width of a road regardless! Not true. Google for "lane-level accuracy". How do you know if you are in an exit/turn lane? On a service road parallel to a freeway? In a lane with a stalled car ahead? (Ok, that's safety, not nav, but the car companies are anticipating precise enough sensor data to do safety apps.)
      --
      What part of `yes no` don't you understand?
    2. Re:Hence WAAS by dfm3 · · Score: 1

      How do you know if you are in an exit/turn lane? On a service road parallel to a freeway? In a lane with a stalled car ahead?



      By looking out the window? ;-)

      Seriously, though, don't forget that the signal received by your automotive/handheld GPS unit is not the only source of error when trying to orient yourself in relation to an object. Your maps have to be incredibly accurate, too.

      Most of the consumer grade mapping solutions available for automotive GPS usage are only accurate down to a certain point- in my experience this is anywhere from 30-150 feet for Garmin's City Navigator series of maps. Some of their older map products can be much worse (some topo software was scaled off of paper maps, for example, and only claims to be accurate to within 800 feet). I too am an avid geocacher, and when a cache hider sloppily takes an inaccurate waypoint, it doesn't matter how accurate the signal is for you, you'll be off.

      Now, imagine the best case scenario, where your lane data is accurate to within 10 feet and your GPS unit reports 10 feet accuracy (I've seen my 60Csx report as low as 6 feet, but that's dubious). Combine your error with the map error, and you could be as much as 20 feet off- making it difficult for the GPS unit to be certain as to which 16-foot-wide lane you are in.

      Everything I've ever read about lane-level accuracy involves embedded sensors in the roadway (RFID, perhaps?) to pinpoint your position.
  23. Re: Ionospheric Interference With GPS Signals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So do trees.

  24. Some simple facts about space weather by GPS_PROF · · Score: 1

    It is easy to get the facts wrong on this subject. Scintillation is not unmodeled delay in the GPS ranging signal. It is wide swings in the signal amplitude. There is an explanation at http://gps.ece.cornell.edu/SpaceWeatherIntro_update_2-20-08_ed.pdf

  25. The ionosphere causes several effects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    First off, this is old news. It has been studied for over 25 years (I was peripherally involved with this in the early 1980s).

    There are two major ionospheric effects: delay and phase variations. The ionosphere is a region above the earth's atmosphere in the altitude range from about 200 km to a few thousand km. In this region there is a very low density of atoms and a significant fraction are ionized by solar radiation. The presence of electrons, combined with the earth's magnetic field, has a significant effect on radio wave propagation.

    The first effect, delay, is related to the electron density in the ionosphere and, since GPS uses delay to determine distance, this affects the navigation accuracy. However, this effect can be removed by using dual-frequency receivers and it can be modeled and mostly compensated for by using differential correction systems such as WAAS. Note that WAAS only models large- and some medium-scale disturbances in the ionosphere so it will be degraded if there are strong medium- and small-scale disturbances.

    The second effect is random phase variations, called phase scintillation, caused by small-scale ionospheric disturbances. If severe enough it will cause the GPS receiver to lose lock on the signal. This can somewhat be compensated for by designing a robust synchronization system in the GPS receiver.

  26. GPS designers already working on this by Discoflamingo13 · · Score: 1

    Ionospheric interference has always been a problem with GPS signals - but military GPS uses two signals (L1 and L2) in order to isolate the total effect, which is much easier to do if you can decrypt the P-code of the L2 signal. In the efforts to make civilian GPS more robust to interference, GPS will be introducing the L5 code in satellites launched this year to address this problem.

  27. LORAN - still in use. by bodland · · Score: 1

    I have a unit on my sailboat. GPS died a few years back. The cira late 70's device is still going strong. It is cool retro tech. If not a little geeky along the HAM radio lines.

  28. Re:Dual Frequency - Not just for the military by afidel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yep, and good equipment will also use Glonass when available. I expect once the Galileo constellation is more complete you will see even higher end consumer devices using both GPS and Galileo. I was really glad when they announced that the commercial parties had abandoned the project and that it was being picked up by the EU directly, per device licensing fees would have meant it would basically go unused like Iridium.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  29. With SBAS, yes you can!! by ndoggac · · Score: 1

    I wanted to point you to our FAA website showing the near-realtime performance of the WAAS/GPS system. WAAS already provides error corrections for ionospheric interference as well as satellite clock and ephemeris corrections to any user tracking the WAAS geosynchronous satellite. GPS III and the corresponding L5 civil frequency will remedy this issue for users with capable receivers, but a GPS III constellation is decades away. Almost all of today's commercial receivers are WAAS capable. We have been studying GPS and WAAS performance including ionospheric activity effects for over 14 years in this office, through a solar cycle maximum and minimum. Our quarterly reports have entire sections dedicated to ionospheric study. I look forward to the increased accuracy, etc GPS III will provide 20 years form now, but I feel you neglected to mention that WAAS (and other SBAS) provides a lot of this functionality in the present to the majority of users in the world. http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/ Space Based Augmentation System (Include WAAS, GAGAN, EGNOS, MSAS) A WAAS capable receiver will work with any of the SBAS's and vice versa.

  30. Re:Lane Level Accuracy by ndoggac · · Score: 1

    Lane level accuracy will have to come from embedded circuits in the roadway. Companies are already working on having an embedded IC's in the roadway reflectors that will tell your car which lane it's in with much greater accuracy and integrity than GPS with any space based augmentation system can. As the prices drop on the integrated circuits to pennies per, this technology becomes more viable. Of course your car's computer system will use both GPS/SBAS and the roadway sensors in tandem to achieve greater accuracy/reliability.

  31. Trilateration, not triangulation by ndoggac · · Score: 1

    I know I'm splitting hairs here, but FYI, any GPS position is calculated using trilateration, not triangulation.

  32. Differential GPS by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 1

    For various reasons (including this one), people have come up with ways to enhance the accuracy of GPS.

    I've used differential GPS for several applications. Terrestrial beacon stations listen to GPS, and compare where they know they are with where GPS says they are. They broadcast these corrections and anybody in the vicinity can use them.

    WAAS is a similar concept. I've played with it too.

    ...laura

  33. Blackmail by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

    Roland has photos of Cowboyneal doing unspeakable things to an iMac. If they stop posting his crap they photos go public!

  34. Following our news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...are the weather and GPS forecast for the next days. Good night.

  35. Roland the Plogger, again by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

    First, it's a Roland the Plogger story, so it's going to be wrong.

    GPS accuracy is a serious problem for users who need high precision. More applications are assuming that GPS is precise to a few meters, which, often, it isn't. It's always good enough if you just need to find an airport. Below that level, error can be a problem.

    Local high-precision systems, like GPS-based systems for landing, use a pseudolite, a receiver on the ground in a known location that receives GPS and broadcasts small corrections. The pseudolite is usually located near the end of the active runway, so as aircraft get closer to the runway, the error approaches zero. There's a similar setup for "precision farming", where the tractor precision is precisely known but there's a psuedolite at the side of the field.

    Without a pseudolite, it's harder. Part of the problem is that there aren't enough satellites. To get a GPS lat/long fix, you need to see at least three sats. To get lat/log/elevation, you need to see four. For high-precision work (down to 15cm), you need five, plus correction signals from receiving stations (see Omnistar) that are monitoring propagation. You're lucky to see four in a built-up area, because you can only see part of the sky. If you can see five, you can measure error. Some systems use both GPS and GLONASS sats; now that Russia is building up the GLONASS constellation again, this works better. By 2009, the GLONASS constellation should be fully populated, and systems that use both GPS and GLONASS will have a better chance of seeing five sats.

    Propagation problems always add delay; they never subtract from it. Propagation problems come from what the ionosphere is doing, and from reflections from big metal surfaces like buildings. In urban canyons, you're seeing mostly bounces.

    This is an issue for civilian uses that assume the system has more precision than it really does. Car navigation systems that try to tell whether a car is on a freeway or an adjacent side street from GPS data alone are likely to have problems. The same problem applies to GPS systems for railroad signalling (these make me nervous) which try to tell on which track a train is running.

    1. Re:Roland the Plogger, again by PhxBlue · · Score: 2, Interesting

      GPS accuracy is a serious problem for users who need high precision.
      This is a misleading statement, because it depends on the model of receiver you're using. Some newer receivers, for example, use the two GPS signals -- military and civilian -- to resolve ionospheric interference. You don't actually need to decrypt the military signal, you just have to be able to receive it. Then the receiver can adjust for the ionosphere's activity and give you a highly accurate signal.
      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  36. l2 is the solution by heroine · · Score: 1

    Obviously shares of GPS stocks are down today, but L2 was supposed to solve ionospheric interference. Go to Iran & get yourself some L2 goodness.

    1. Re:l2 is the solution by Arimus · · Score: 1

      Err.... if you want people to use the L2 signal on Navstar then you'd better get hold of the keys for it :)

      Not sure either if the L1/L2 frequency shift alone will counter all affects.

      (Actually not noticed a significant difference on our keyed/unkeyed gps receivers in the lab - all of which have the same signal feed (gps amplifier/repeater feeding the rf to each PLGR) since the SA was reduced to effectively 0 a few years ago.)

      --
      --- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
  37. railway control? by fish+waffle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Isn't GPS a little overkill for railways? I suppose they may end up anywhere, but mostly they stay on the tracks, which makes them quite easy to find.

    1. Re:railway control? by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      It's a good off-the-shelf solution for knowing where your rolling stock is. Train schedules are incredibly complex and are laid out to the second, so having a high degree of accuracy of the locations of your locomotives with no initial R&D investment is a hell of a deal.

      I mean, you could say the same thing about cars- they mostly just stay on the road, right?

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
    2. Re:railway control? by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      I suspect the rail industry uses GPS more for the timing signal than the navigation signal. If you hook a rail switch up to GPS and tell it you want it to switch at a given time of day, you know it's going to switch at that time -- not five minutes before or after.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  38. The difference between signal and noise by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

    is what you're listening for.

    The cool part of this article is that scientists are now using GPS receivers (cheap, ubiquitous) to study events in the ionosphere, which used to require fixed ground-based ionosondes or worse yet sounding rockets.

  39. I bet an upper atmosphere nuke test would be bad by justdrew · · Score: 1

    so, anyone remember the atmospheric nuke tests? massive electrical disturbances were generated.

  40. not that bad a problem with newer GPSr by statemachine · · Score: 1

    My handheld will track at least 12 satellites and also coordinate that with a ground signal for an extremely accurate civilian-signal based location -- usually under 2 or 3 meters possible error in many places, but the unit will pinpoint within 30cm/1 foot or less. I don't see it jump around much at all except when the sampling rate gets lowered.

    I'm not sure this problem is as big as it's made out to be.

  41. railway control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can tell you that railroads do not use GPS. Control of the railroads is done by dispatchers. GPS is not reliable enough to run trains. In most cases, the accuracy is not good enough to differentiate between tracks (15 feet apart) while going 60 mph.

  42. Duh. by NateTech · · Score: 1

    Subject line says it all. This isn't news to anyone who has a freakin' clue about RF systems.

    --
    +++OK ATH
  43. Re:Dual Frequency - Not just for the military by crotherm · · Score: 1

    it would basically go unused like Iridium. You would be surprised what is about to be tried with Iridium. The US Air Force owns it you know.

    --
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK