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Clash of the Titans Over USB 3.0 Specification Process

Ian Lamont writes "Nvidia and other chip designers are accusing Intel of 'illegally restraining trade' in a dispute over the USB 3.0 specification. The dispute has prompted Nvidia, AMD, Via, and SiS to establish a rival standard for the USB 3.0 host controller. An Intel spokesman denies the company is making the USB specification, or that USB 3.0 'borrows technology heavily' from the PCI Special Interests group. He does, however, say that Intel won't release an unfinished Intel host controller spec until it's ready, as it would lead to incompatible hardware."

11 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. 1394 For Life by vertigoCiel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ever the more reason to never give up Firewire until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

    1. Re:1394 For Life by mrbluze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ever the more reason to never give up Firewire until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers. But why does everything with firewire have to cost an extra $30 or so?
      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    2. Re:1394 For Life by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Firewire is not designed to run peripherals. It's designed for high speed, efficient transfer of data. The closest it gets to peripherals is high end scanners. Mice, printers, keyboards, basically anything human interface is more appropriate for USB. Universal Serial Bus. Firewire is not universal. The overhead created by being universal makes even the high speed USB (480) transfer data slower than Firewire 400. Then there's Firewire 800 which leaves USB in the dust nicely on file transfers.

      Also firewire IO is done on the card/chip, whereas USB is done to a large degree by the CPU. This is why we saw recent threads about the 'security risk' associated with jacking into the firewire port of a computer - you have direct access to system memory on most systems. Try a file copy with USB 2, and again with firewire, watch your processor. BIG difference. This is important when you are processing video, you can't have your video IO making your video processing lag and skip frames. That's one of the reasons firewire remains dominant on video.

      The only aspect of this I find puzzling is the scarcity and cost of firewire flash drives. kanguru makes them but they cost 3-4x as much as comparable USB thumb drives. Best guess here is thumb drives started their boon before most PCs had firewire ports, so they were just trying to hit the largest market, which lacked firewire, and so now we're stuck with it.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    3. Re:1394 For Life by enoz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If someone has physical access to your computer then it is already game over*.

      Why bother using firewire hacking when it is much simpler to do a hard reset and load a bootable CD?

      *YMMV, See TrueCrypt for example.

    4. Re:1394 For Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You seem to think this article is about sub-Gbs speeds. Sure, Firewire is the king there. But this is the next level and Firewire don't come close on speed.

      Look on it from the bright side, a few years from now you and your likes will claim how Apple popularized USB3. If it weren't for Apple we would still be using low speed Firewire and so on. Great, isn't it.

    5. Re:1394 For Life by petermgreen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The big problem with using firewire for everything is it lacks the lower speed modes that USB has. That means that every perhipheral has to have chips capable of handling a 400 megabit per second interface even if it doesn't need anywhere near that ammount of bandwidth.

      --
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  2. Bastard companies by mark_hill97 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As we have seen with wireless networking gear in the past companies are all too eager to screw the consumer with incompatibilities because of pre-spec products being released. If Intel was doing this I would say good for them, its rare a company would actively try to protect the consumer from these vultures.

  3. Re:So... by Gnavpot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All other things being equal (no major bugs in one of the specs), USB-Intel would be the clear winner if the two standards came out about the same time, due to Intel's influence, name recognition, prestige, etc. The 5000 pound gorilla flattens the 200 pound monkey with 1 step.

    Oh, you mean like Intel won over AMD with their attempt at a 64 bit processor instruction set?

    (In case you don't know: They did absolutely not. Intel had to scrap their 64 bit processor because nobody wanted it, and today's Intel 64 bit processors uses AMD's instruction set.)
  4. Re:Betamax theory of CE by symbolset · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sooo...you're still waiting for HD-DVD to win?

    This one's not over yet. Apparently online distribution was a third contender waiting in the wings. We shall see. Sony bought out HD-DVD. They can't buy out online distribution. In the meantime BD players and discs have gone up in price not down. That was a critical mistake.

    Sony has some of the most brilliant engineers on earth. They're chained to the marketing team from hell. They always try to exploit their market share before it's time. A shame, really. They do a host other things wrong too. If it weren't so their supercomputer class gaming console would not be coming in third to the XBox and the Wii. They could use a consultant to come in and tell them how retarded their marketing team is, but they have too much pride to win. Surely I'm not the only one who sees this.

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  5. USB2 is _not_ faster than firewire... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful


    USB2 is quoted as having 480Mbps throughput, however as the grandparent points out USB2 is not a fully-fledged I/O controller just the PHY layer, the host having to do all the heavy lifting.

    The upshot is that when you actually use one bus or the other to, say copy files, firewire at a mere 400Mbps trounces USB2 in throughput.

    Yes USB3 is in the pipe with vastly improved on paper specs, but then again Firewire has 3200 and 6400 variants in the pipe as well.

    Essentially USB should have been left as an interface for keyboards and mice, and firewire aught to have been adopted by intel as the preferred bus for all high throughput applications, it would also have been preferable to SATA.

  6. Not quite true about the cost. by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Firewire might pay for itself in high speed applications where time == money, but it is sever overkill (and too high cost) for many lower speed applications such as mouse, keyboard etc. USB is king of the low speed domain because of low cost: a USB-cappable microcontroller only costs a couple of bucks and a sub dollar micro can do a low speed bit-banged implementation of USB. Adding USB to peripherals is almost free.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.