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UK Games Industry Over the Hill?
Tinkle writes "A games industry campaign group has warned the UK is falling behind on coding skills because university courses are not up to scratch. But this article includes an interview with an industry coding veteran who believes a lack of creative home computing hardware (think: Atari ST) is more likely to be at the root of the skills shortage, and explains why Britain's games coders are getting a bit long-in-the-tooth."
Think Amiga of course, not Atari... :P :)
Programming a physics engine does not take creativity, it takes intellectual brute force. They are moaning about the lack of heavyweight brainboxes, not guys who sit around having cool ideas.
But as I said already, they have only themselves to blame. They don't want to pay the price such powernerds require to keep them from finding work elsewhere. Essentially, they are asking the government to train loads of people, flood the labour market and lower their outgoings for them. I say fuck them. They need to start paying decent wages.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
There are people with the necessary skills and intellect coming out of UK universities. I'd wager the real problem is that they're ending up working in finance, which has far larger salaries than the games industry.
Despite the games companies constantly bleating about how much money they make and how games are now a bigger contributor to the British economy than films, they seem unwilling or unable to compensate leading engineering talent. Is it little surprise that graduates go elsewhere?
Having done a degree in London (I say, wot wot?!), I know when I was looking into CS degrees around various institutions, almost none offered anything even close to gaming programming.
This, I presumed was largely because a "Computer games" degree would be regarded by paying parents of the cretins in question as a dent on the quality and seriousness of the university in question. Of course, I don't know that for fact, but that was my feeling.
Parents want to know their offspring are programming serious applications; high-availability databases for blue-chip companies and so forth; certainly not running round a virtual environment blowing friends to kingdom-come with an RPG launcher.
So, with a small launchpad for gaming developers, is it such a wonder that game developers in the UK are going the way of the dodo? We're serious people us English people don't you know.
That's my thoughts on the matter anyhow. Please add yours.
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Perhaps its a ploy to recruit more teachers. Its actually looking like a decent graduate job these days.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Its just a cynical way for universities to make money and it does a disservice to the people who take it. Any good CS course should equip someone with the knowledge (if not ability) to work on games programming - theres nothing special about it apart from perhaps a slightly greater emphasis on physics and thats only if you work on a physics engine anyway.
There're no special accountancy programming degrees or degrees in insurance or banking programming so why games programming? Its just a cynical cash cow.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
...would want to work in the games industry anyway?
It's generally reckoned to have some of the worst pay and the longest hours.
From what I've heard, the actual coding in commercial games is (contrary to what people expect) tedious and unrewarding minutae.
Couple that with the volatile and flaky nature of the games business that can (and does) see formerly successful companies go under very quickly after their latest game doesn't do quite as well as they'd hoped.
Anyone getting into the business is competing against naive entrants in their late-teens/early-twenties; the type who are willing (and able) to work for peanuts to do what (they think) they love, until they get burnt out and are replaced by more newbies.
I'm glad that I've never had any desire to work in computer games, because unless you're truly passionate about it and have your eyes wide open as to what it involves, it sounds like a no-brainer to avoid it.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
From an article linked by the one of those above:
'MacKinnon warned: "Without significant intervention higher education cannot meet growth targets [for the IT industry]." He called on the government to provide tax breaks and partner-with-industry to encourage internships and graduate entry schemes to get young talent into IT and help others transfer across from different industries.
The offshoring of entry level IT jobs has exacerbated the skills shortage by making it increasingly difficult for IT workers to gain the necessary experience to boost their skill level, he added. "Because we are not employing at entry level offshoring will kill our industry stone dead," he warned.'
and from the article itself:
"Because the US economy is depressed it's cheaper to develop there and people are looking at other places - everyone's setting up studios in Shanghai and Eastern Europe at the moment."
Even in the company I work for we don't have any entry level jobs any more in house and in the UK. I don't agree with it as it's causing problems such as lack of knowledge retention and the wool being pulled over managements eyes. But the IT director came in singing the offshoring song and so we'll continue despite indications it's actually more expensive than say agile onshore methods.
In the past I'd have recommended IT as a career but now I'd say go into building trades as at least your competition has to come here to the UK and you've got the same cost of living.
Basically we're turning ourselves into Eloi.
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
I just finished a PhD in the UK. Granted, although I am not originary from Great Britain, I have the possibility of working here.
I have always wanted to be a game programmer. I have been programming small games since I was in secondary (school 12 y/old). While I was doing my Bachelors degree, I read loads of books on OpenGL, DirectX, game programming, game AI, etc. I even played with Open Source games (small contribs, patches, etc).
However, as I have got older, I have also realised that being a game programming does not have all the "magic" that it used to have (in the Amiga/PC DOS days).
Now I have two options, one is to kick-start in the game industry (say, as a Q-A at Sony, Rare, R* or any other UK game studio) or I can get into a Hedge fund as a junior Quant Developer.
When you compare the payment, benefits and vacations, it is evident that the game developer job has *no chance* against the quant job.
Both include maths and algorithms (I am specialized in A.I.) and both are very interesting for me. But I believe the obvious choice is to keep the game development as as hobby and get playing where the money is.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
It's been true for a *long* time and it's not just gaming it's across the industry.
Basically employers only want the perfect employee - someone who knows their systems intimately has decades of experience.. and will work for about £15k.
Years ago the IT press were bleating on about their 'skills shortage'. At the time I was looking for work myself and knew over a dozen skilled programmers in the same boat. It wasn't that we didn't have skills - it was that we didn't have the *exact* skills that the employers wanted (even down to exact compiler versions and wanting insane number of years of experience of new applications.. I'm sure there's a job out there now that insists on '10 years JDK 2.1.1a' and the manager is bitching about how there's this skills shortage as nobody qualifies...).
I used to worry that I was some kind of malcontent, but every time I post my complaints about the UK IT industry on any vaguely techy forum I get a chorus of agreement.
But if there is a supply of skilled IT graduates waiting for a decent employer why has no one jumped on the opportunity to run a business with top notch talent, and seemingly have very little competition for them?
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Excellent, with a personality like that, you should get on just fine.
Seriously, stop acting like you're the only person in the world who knows what they're doing. Games design *isn't* about programming, that's not a weakness of the course, it's a weakness of your perception. Design is where you decide what you want to do, not when you sit down and hack out the first thing that comes into your head.
The "CADers" and "Photoshoppers" you talk about are in fact skilled professionals. It may not be your profession, but it does have a name. It's called an "Artist". You'd be pissed off if someone called you a "C++er" I'd guess, so have a bit of respect for other people as well. No, they're not interested in programming or how the engine works (beyond what the limits are), because that's what the developers are there for.
Programming *is* mostly creative.
You have to take an idea and give it form. There are a nearly infinite number of ways of doing so - some will work, many won't... that's where experience and knowledge comes in.
Just because you can't go abstract like picasso doesn't mean it's not creative. A building has to be correct (much more so than a program, as there are laws involved), but you try telling an architect that what they do isn't creative and they'll just laugh at you.
You can't train someone who doesn't have the aptitute to be a programmer. I've seen it loads of times - people who went through all the graduate stuff, read lots of books, fart algorithms in their sleep.. and can't code their way out of a paper bag. Not because they don't have the knowledge, but because they simply don't have the aptitude. The problem is I've seen attitudes like yours promote these idiots into places where they can actually do harm, like project leads.
To solve a problem in a new way you need to be able to think differently, not just copy what someone else has done. That's the difference between a code monkey and a true programmer.
Won't pay for people with the required skillset nor will they pay to train someone to achieve the required skillset. Instead they just bitch to the media via one of their useless, self-aggrandising, all buddies together spin organisations about the poor state of UK education.
Do you believe the two phenomena are mutually exclusive?
IT businesses in the UK aren't very good at giving their best people a remuneration package that matches the value those people offer the company. Of course, outside sales, management and finance, the really good people in most fields get screwed by employers, which is why so many of them give up and start their own business or go freelance where they can set their own rates. (How sales, management and finance people wind up in senior, well-paid positions when they are obviously a net liability to a business remains an eternal mystery to me.)
On the other hand, the UK education system is without doubt on a slide. You can dress up the exam results and league tables as much as you like, but right now we have people reaching university to read science subjects who are unable to do maths that the kids of twenty years ago all learned three years younger, and we have examination questions appearing on first year university CS course papers that are almost verbatim copies of questions previously set on A-level papers (for the non-UK readers: A-levels are the exams we take at around 18, before leaving school and possibly going on to university). Heck, according to one of the cited articles, there are now 81 video game degree courses offered by UK universities. A case study, I can understand. Lectures that cover subjects like graphics algorithms, mathematics and AI, those are fine too. But what the #!$& is vocational training doing masquerading as a complete university degree?
Everyone in industry knows darn well that what you get from a new graduate today isn't what it used to be. Heck, anyone with the slightest ability to think critically could predict that if the government is trying to get 50% of people to go through university now when it used to be only 5–10% then you aren't going to get the same standards maintained if the degree classes awarded follow the same distribution. Of course, people without critical thinking (who are now getting degrees or teaching those getting straight-A exam results) find this rational debate upsetting, and argue that we're just cynical old folks who are devaluing the hard work of the youth and teachers of today. It doesn't seem to occur to them that by giving away pieces of paper some of us really did work hard for, they are the ones devaluing our efforts...
So yes, I think IT bosses do have a point when they bitch about the education system. They just don't come across very well when at the same time as they say that, they aren't putting in much genuine effort to cultivate the talent and skills we do (or could) have.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Spot on.
The actual reason for the game industry to be short on talented new hires is the "We do not work for the money, we work for the cool" requirement for being hired.
I had one or two brush-ups with the industry while looking for a job and frankly as once upon a time said by Greg Lake they are getting "Whatever Christmas they deserve".
While it is possible to hire a person from time to time on the basis of "Kewl", it is not possible to maintain an industry this way. Industries operate on the basis of "I work for money, if you want (Loyalty, Kewl, etc... underline the applicable) get a dog"Â
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
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Cambridge? Frontier, Sony, Jagex, plus I'm not sure how many smaller players. Who are the big names in Dundee?
Of course, Cambridge is also the base of ARM and Acorn, so may have similar hardware factors at play, and has the university and science/technology parks.
I'd like to see them write Grand Theft Auto 4 with VB ;-)
Yes, GTA4 is a British production.
You need to get up to date on your numbers. I live in Poland and make more than I would with a decent job in the US. Not Silicon Valley level yet, but better than most states. The US dollar is dirt cheap, remember?
No, I think he meant "There is no skills shortage in the UK. There is a shortage of decent employers, so all the skills are fucking off to the US and Canada where they can support themselves in the game industry without being a bartender in their spare time."
British programmers are alcoholics who write poor hacky code, based on one anecdotal experience from an anonymous source?
Why is this racist nonsense getting modded up?