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O'Reilly To Release DRM-free Ebooks In July

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the piracy-be-damned dept.

andrewsavikas writes "Starting in July, O'Reilly Media will pilot select books as DRM-free ebook bundles (PDF, EPUB, and Kindle-compatible Mobipocket) priced at or below the cover price of the book. David Pogue comments on the pilot in the wake of his own recent dustup about ebooks and piracy, covered previously on Slashdot."

33 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. I'll buy a few... by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm really surprised that we are actually seeing DRM free eBooks, I though this would take much longer to come about... I plan to buy a few to at least support the concept. I hope though the final title list presents some more interesting titles...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:I'll buy a few... by mollymoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're reading /. and you've never even read an O'Reilly book? Wow. I though everyone with with a reasonable level of interest in computers would own one, or at least have had one thrust at them when they asked a colleague for help. I've got all of them. Well, sort of - I've got a Safari subscription. Half a dozen or so paper ones too. Safari is awesome, by the way. The web is nice and all, good for specific answers, but when you need a properly structured introduction or detailed reference you can't beat instant access to an enormous library of books. Having the option to buy an electronic copy I can be assured will work with all my future devices will make it even nicer.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    2. Re:I'll buy a few... by Instine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't have any but will be putting pay to that shortly in light of this news. I'm a dyslexic developer. My guess is, having seen some tech docs in my time, I'm not the only one.

      While I love the web (I can use various assitive technolgies , easily, on most markup based pages, and even some PDFs), I HATE books, and DRMed PDFs put addional barriers between me and the knowledge I'm after..

      This is, therefore, potentially, good news for a possible 10%+ of potential O'Reilly readers.

      --
      Because you can - or because you should?
    3. Re:I'll buy a few... by shmlco · · Score: 3, Informative

      You might have noticed that they're going to be selling a bundle of three formats for one price (EPUB, PDF, and Kindle-compatible Mobipocket). With the non-PDF formats you can reflow the text and adjust the font size to fit the screen.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  2. Still too dear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why should we pay as much, or near to the full price of a dead tree product for a digital copy? The manufacturing and distributions costs are near zero. There's no need for shelf space in retailers either. On top of this, we have little resale options. Ever see legal digital itunes music on ebay in lots?

    1. Re:Still too dear by Sancho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, frankly, because of economics. If the ebooks sell at full dead-tree price, why shouldn't O'Reilly sell them at that price?

      Also, don't underestimate the cost of keeping a server running and capable of serving out the eBooks 24/7. The actual cost of sending the bits through the tubes might not be high, but the cost of keeping those servers running and cool isn't negligible.

      Then there's the issue of value. Lots of people consider ebooks to be more valuable than dead-tree versions because they're searchable and smaller. If they're perceived as more valuable, they'll sell for more. We saw this trend with cassette tapes vs. CDs and VHS tapes vs. DVDs. In both cases, the disc-based media cost less to produce than the tape-based media, but tapes sold for less because they were considered inferior and were in less demand.

    2. Re:Still too dear by Tikkun · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Technical books have a much smaller audience than popular titles do. This drives up the cost to the reader, as fewer people are paying for the costs of the book, many of which do not have anything to do with distribution (i.e. research, testing, editing, etc.).

  3. DRM free eBooks could be easy by Coopjust · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Make them openly viewable, but lock them for editing via password and put the name and address, and account email on the title page. That will let people use the ebooks as they want, but strongly deter people from uploading them or freely sharing them with people who haven't bought the book.

    1. Re:DRM free eBooks could be easy by cephah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a good idea, except if people want to spread them, they would just remove the lock and change the information. DRM doesn't work, period. I'm glad to see O'Reilly embracing this fact.

    2. Re:DRM free eBooks could be easy by Pinckney · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Make them openly viewable, but lock them for editing via password and put the name and address, and account email on the title page. That will let people use the ebooks as they want, but strongly deter people from uploading them or freely sharing them with people who haven't bought the book. And how do you propose to lock them? In what proprietary format must these books come, and how long until someone releases a program to ignore the read-only bit?
    3. Re:DRM free eBooks could be easy by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just like making bits uncopyable is like making water not wet, so is making data unmodifiable. "Lock them for editing" is DRM, and can, has been, and will be circumvented.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    4. Re:DRM free eBooks could be easy by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      DRM isnt the super-breakable trick everyone claims here on slashdot.

      One could devise a DRM which procesess all state information within a signed VM. You have multiple exterior checks on the container to guarantee integrity, and once processing the VM, the VM itself checks itself. And if one was to go massively paranoid, a service could be required that satellite service for exterior verification.

      Look at this in similar terms of Xen running SElinux with communication via satellite.

      Is it crackable? Of course. Will you be found out? Most likely.

      Yuo just wait... The next movie player will require a network connection to play videos and music. Blu-ray already uses the VM schematic. All they need is a continuously on connection. All they need is SSH or something similar and the thing'll be damn near unhackable. One would probably have to hook up to the TV lcd chips to record a signal.

      --
    5. Re:DRM free eBooks could be easy by Coopjust · · Score: 3, Informative

      PDF includes encrypted protection on editing via password (which could be strong) and it is an ISO standard...

    6. Re:DRM free eBooks could be easy by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ``DRM isnt the super-breakable trick everyone claims here on slashdot.''

      You won't hear me claim that it is always easy to break a DRM scheme.

      ``One could devise a DRM which procesess all state information within a signed VM.''

      No. Because that's an implementation detail. You can't force people to use a particular implementation.

      Fundamentally, you have a Big Bag Of Bits (usually a file) that has the information in it. Once you figure out how to interpret the bits, you can get the information out. The only way this won't work is if not all the information is there.

      Having said that, you _can_ make it very difficult for people to decode the information in the BBOB, without going through a channel controlled by you. One way to achieve that is by using encryption. If the encryption algorithm is good, the information will be almost impossible to decode without the key. If the key is difficult enough to guess, the only feasible way to decode the information is by obtaining the key from you. But even still...if the decryption works once, it will work again, so if people can somehow store the key for later use (e.g. sniff it from the network, extract it from a program, ...), the cat is out of the bag again.

      Finally, once you have raised the bar for decoding the content so high that nobody is willing or able to crack your scheme...they can still get at the information once your software has decoded it for them. For example, if an ebook reader renders the content...who is to say the rendered content ends up on a screen, and not in a file?

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    7. Re:DRM free eBooks could be easy by debatem1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I admit that you raise the difficulty of breaking such a scheme considerably by doing all of that, it is far from "unhackable". My first thought would be to run the entire VM under an X proxy, which would permit me to capture image files of each individual page. Another possibility would be to take snapshots of the VM in operation and correlate the opening of the file to memory allocation. Either way, you're fighting against Knuth's third law, and you just aren't going to win that one.

  4. Well by Mensa+Babe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "... priced at or below the cover price of the book ..." [emphasis added]

    Well, that's the problem - "at or below" is not enough. If I am to get only the raw information without the physical thing, without the possibility to go to a park with my book (and not looking like a dork with a laptop, or worse yet - a Kindle), without being able to decorate my room with a book, et cetera - it has to cost at least 10 times less (which it doesn't) or be 10 times better (which it isn't). This is the same reason why the idea of selling mp3s was such a failure. In other words, great idea but it is sadly going to fail because it doesn't follow the "ten times" rule. Probably once again the marketing department wasn't listening to the engineers. What a shame.

    --
    Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
    1. Re:Well by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Informative

      And where do you derive the x10 rule from? Rules of marketing from what I understood is to extract a maximum amount of money from as many as you can.

      Traditional rules also said that the customer was always right. With recent days, DRM and lack of service says otherwise.

      --
    2. Re:Well by repetty · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > If I am to get only the raw information without the physical thing

      Somehow, that's a peculiar point of view to encounter on Slashdot... the value of a book is its physical instantiation, not the information it contains.

      I see it the other way around.

      A couple years ago, I bought the PDF rights to a Ruby on Rails book during its development -- I needed the info immediately and couldn't wait for it to go to print.

      I had a copy center print it up, spiral-bound, and I also used it in soft form on my computer. Later, when the book actually went to print, I bought it again. (It was a good book.)

      I realized that I didn't like the officially printed book as much. My spiral-bound version was larger and easier to read and laid flat on my desk. Since I knew that I could print another if necessary, I didn't hesitate to write notations in it. Finally, the searchability of the PDF actually changed the way I read: I didn't have to refer to a table of contents, I didn't have to refer to an index, and I didn't have to thumb through pages looking for pertinent information.

    3. Re:Well by failedlogic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've had a copy center print out a few GPL books before and supplementary PDFs that came with a textbook I purchased. PDF is wholehartedly a much more convienient format, especially with the ability to bookmark, highlight and write notes on the page. And I agree, having a digital copy means you can make unlimited markups of the text and start with an unmarked copy without having to buy more. I actually edit my documents using PDFs in this fashion rather than use Word's (or similar) text markup. Because of the problems with CDs and DVDs (easy to scratch) etc., I would happily buy e-books if there are: 1) no restrictions on use; 2) if I loose my copy or it doesn't work any longer (e.g. corrupted), I can download another copy.

      I really would like to see E-book readers like the one Amazon launched recently come down in price. I just don't like reading E-Books on a screen.

      I am a bibliophile. I am packing up to move right now. Because of the sheer space (and weight) of the books I have, I ended up selling close to 100 of them. Were they all e-books would be a lot more convenient - 1 DVD. Most books are only good for one reading and occasional glance backs. I would like to save trees, electricity (no paper to print) and make sure writers get their royalties.

      IMO, with full digital books, it would be cool too to have some interaction with the book .... perhaps some embedded video relating to the content on the page would be neat. Afterall, there is Flash and MPEG support in PDFs isn't there?

      So with the right concessions, per above, and a cheaper and good portable e-book reader, I will certainly buy the e-books.

    4. Re:Well by gnasher719 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The 'Customer is always right' is a mantra that was sold to customers to make them believe they are always in control - in actuality, a customer is very rarely right when it comes to your business. Actually, "the customer is always right" is supposed to remind the sales person that their job is not about being right, but about selling and making money. If a customer says he wants to buy X because of Y then you say "yes", sell him X and make money. If you say "no you are wrong", even if you are right, he walks away and spends his money elsewhere, so you lose..

      There are cases like a customer saying "what you sold to me is rubbish, you have to give me my money back", where 'the customer is always right" automatically does not apply. Some customers are surprised by this.
  5. Good move, pirated books are very easy to find by yohanes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think this is great, right now, you can search for almost any o'reilly books on Torrent and Rapidshare, so this wont add anything to the already existing books in the pirated world. But this will give a chance to people who wants to buy their books but think that it is too expensive.

    --
    -- tinyhack.com
  6. Always want ebook. by Odder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given the choice, I will always buy an ebook from O'reilly. I can put them on sftp and have them anywhere, they won't sag my shelf and so on and so forth. I also imagine it will be easier to buy because I don't have to drive to a store or wait for UPS. I wish all my textbooks were like this.

    1. Re:Always want ebook. by Cal+Paterson · · Score: 2

      Posting to undo moderation. I meant to moderate insightful.

    2. Re:Always want ebook. by Poorcku · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I tend to read a lot of Pdfs (articles and so forth), and they are fine for quick reference. still nothing beats good old fashioned paper. I find it more relaxing for my eyes. Could be the way I was taught though. Ideas on this one?

      --
      I take my children to see Madonna(..), but I never for once ever thought I was in the same business.Chris Rea.
    3. Re:Always want ebook. by morcego · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do "own" several DRM'ed ebooks. My main problem is that they are locked to a computer/reader (serial number). So if I loose that computer (cellphone etc), I loose access to the ebook.

      This is something that really annoys me. If they want to "lock" the ebook, fine. But lock it to ME, not to my computer.

      --
      morcego
  7. Re:Formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't be lazy

  8. Resale: nothing lost. by Odder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ever try to sell your old textbooks? You are lucky to get 1/3 rd the value the next semester. The kind of O'Reilly books you would sell won't get you much more. If you don't want it anymore, most people don't want it. You are not going to be losing much this way.

    If I'm willing to pay for a print book, I'm willing to pay for the electronic copy. I want the information, not the paper. The easiest place to find it will be the publisher.

  9. Pricing Wrong by leabre · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wouldn't mind purchasing digitally unrestricted files, but not for "at or below the price of the book". I've seen way too many Kindle books that are nearly priced the same as the printed counterparts and gives me no advantages of my printed counterparts (can't give it away, sell it, write in it, requires no additional expense EG batteries, etc.). I'm talking tech books. Some are priced okay, others that I've had an interest in are nearly $50-70. I've seen one Kindle book that was $135 while the printed counterpart (no longer in print) was selling for roughly $15 used.

    I don't know what would be a good price point for a ebook, but considering bandwidth is relatively cheap compared to printing and binding and shipping a book, I don't think an ebook should be priced similar to the printed counter part. With DRM-less ebooks, perhaps it is less of an issue than with DRM encumbered ebooks, where a dead machine or defunct ebook publisher can render your collection useless (has happend to me, which is why I don't buy encumbered ebooks anymore).

    To me, an ebook should be pricsed roughly 20-40% of the price of the book if it was printed. Keep in mind, retail books are already highly marked up from what the retailer pays the publisher/distributor. It should be 20-40% of the whole sale cost of the book (because other publisher/distributors/retailers don't usually offer the ebooks for sale anyway, so it need not be priced according retail value, but wholesale value).

    The other thing is, while certain very-hard to find books, or other in-demand little-supply books could command a premium in print, ebooks are not scarce. They are, for all intents-and-purposes, unlimited supply. So they should not reflect prices of scarcity or high-print costs.

    Until the pricing of any ebook reflects something more realistic considering the what we have to sacrifice to use and that the publisher has so little overhead costs associated with the distribution of the digital media, then I still am not convinced to purchase.

    I do applaud O'Reilly for doing this. They produce great books and if more publishers follow suit, then maybe, just maybe, the landscape will improve and the Ebook market will become more viable.

    Thanks,
    Leabre

    1. Re:Pricing Wrong by GleeBot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know if 20-40% (a markdown of 80-60%) is really reasonable. I'm not entirely sure where this attitude comes from that bits should be vastly less expensive, just because the distribution costs are near-zero.

      Newsflash: Printing a technical reference doesn't actually cost anywhere near the majority of the book price. That $50-200 book you bought might contain a few hundred pages with lots of glossy color pictures (if it's a very nice book).

      Compare that to the price of, say, Harry Potter 7. 784 pages in hard cover for about $20. No glossy pictures, true, but if the cost of printing is really such a major expense, I'd point out that it's 784 pages.

      There's a couple reason for this, the major one probably being volume. Harry Potter sells a lot of copies. That has implications for the printing costs, of course, but it's nothing compared to the way it spreads out the cost of developing the content to begin with. Technical material is expensive to develop.

      Estimates for the cost of a typical textbook is something like 25% for printing and distribution. I think it's justified to expect that an e-book should cost somewhat less than a printed book (maybe that 25%), but it shouldn't cost 60-80% less. That's significantly undervaluing the content, which is what you're really paying for when you buy the printed book.

      Or would you be just as happy buying 200 pages of blank paper, bound in spiral form? Maybe even with some lines ruled out so you can write on them? Those go for about $10.

      I do hear what you're saying about the cost vs. used books, though. That's one of my major complaints about single source electronic distribution models like Steam; they really eviscerate the used market, and there's generally no incentive to discount a product as quickly as in a market of competing retailers.

  10. ebooks should be bundled by code4fun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think ebooks should be bundled with each copy of book sold. Or, at least give a reasonable discount. I have a lot of books which I would love to have an electronic copy.

  11. Screen real estate by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...my screen real-estate is very valuable to me, there's really no room for a PDF reader open at the same time

    Don't you love virtual desktops? One for the browser and mail, one for the IDE, one for the PDF documentation and finally one spare...

    I'm not kidding, but it is one of the reasons I consider Windows not ready for my desktop.

  12. Light contrast and good monitor. by Odder · · Score: 3, Informative

    First make sure your monitor is working well. You can easily check this with a test pattern If it flickers or has aliasing you need better.

    Try to reduce the contrast in light levels between your monitor and it's surroundings. High contrasts in light level will cause your eyes to work harder and reduce your ability to see fine details.

  13. At or below the cover price? by Perp+Atuitie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As I recall, the physical manufacturing and distribution of a book costs around 60% of its price. Seems like the publisher could pass some of that savings along. I mean, how much does it cost to upload a bunch of pdf?