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Studies Confirm That Bad Boys Get More Girls
seattlle foodie sends along a New Scientist article outlining two recent studies that confirm what many have long suspected: bad boys get the most girls. "The finding may help explain why a nasty suite of antisocial personality traits known as the 'dark triad' persists in the human population, despite their potentially grave cultural costs. The traits are: the self-obsession of narcissism; the impulsive, thrill-seeking, and callous behavior of psychopaths; and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism. At their extreme, these traits would be highly detrimental for life in traditional human societies. People with these personalities risk being shunned by others and shut out of relationships, leaving them without a mate, hungry and vulnerable to predators."
...on whether or not these bad boys get more consensual sex
Women always say they want a man that is nice, helpful, respectful and will treat them right. But, you see it time after time...they go for the guys that are assholes, abusive (sometimes even physically).
I personally like to be a 'nice guy'. But, in my early years...I would often find myself ending up as the "friend" of the girl, and ended up listening to them go on and on about how much of a jerk this guy or that guy was, yet they still went with and slept with these guys. And, once you are in the friend zone before sleeping with them, you generally never get out of that zone.
I tried after all that, to emulate somewhat the actions and attitudes I saw the successful 'assholes' did towards women, and guess what? Yep...I started getting more 'lucky'.
If you are a bit aloof, and difficult...they for the most part won't leave you alone.
Women generally don't seem to really want what they say they want in a man.
Oh..they may eventually grab the steady, meeker nice guy, and have kids with them because they are stable, but then they will often go out and cheat....with the bad boy they meet and find they are sexually attracted and excited by.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Well, now that science has figured it out, maybe we can find some kind of cure for stupid chicks that go after guys who are going to treat them like shit.
Even if the "bad boy" thing is true.
Taken to their extremes they may be, but self-confidence, thrill-seeking, and the daily deceits of life are the price we pay to function in society. Is it deceit to tell someone that you don't find particularly attractive that they look good today? You often do this with gatekeepers you need on your side.
And self-confidence and narcissism can lead to trying new things and succeeding at them. This is a feedback loop that leads to more success. Sometimes feeling that you are better than others is merely a reflection of simple truth. How that translates into how you treat others is the test of whether it is psychopathic. Some people that are superior look down on others. Some become mentors and try to lift all the boats around them.
It seems many of these traits are only seen as evil by those that feel that everyone is a unique special snowflake which reality proves is incorrect every second of every day.
But how does this explain hot chicks with ugly dudes?
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
There are some how-to books for dating that advocate being a complete asshole. I download (pirate) books more than anything, and occasionally I'll see a dating guide that I'll skim over. Anyone with a social life has probably noted that there is a serious art in treating women like crap, and it will get you laid quickly.
To speculate why this trait would be advantageous from an evolutionary standpoint, many people who treat women like crap have a "me-first" attitude, and are skilled manipulators of their social surroundings. To use an anecdote, I have a friend who is very good at picking up smokin'-hot young women in college bars (hes in college too). Despite having a relatively-low GPA, being a serious pot-head, and alcoholic, he has managed to finagle scholarship after scholarship out of his department. People like him; but I have never met anyone that the adage "familiarity breeds contempt" applies to more. I unfortunately know him well enough to understand that he is a borderline psychopath in regards to his empathy for other human beings.
Back to why this is an evolutionary advantage, his "me-first" attitude will become an "us-first" attitude when he gets married, he will have no problem fucking-over his friends, co-workers, bosses, and neighbors for personal gain, because people will tolerate it to a certain extent. This is because he is largely like-able, although he avoids people enough so that they don't grow tired of his constantly selfish attitude.
To sum my point, so-called "bad boys" that women like are skilled social manipulators that pull no punches. They probably are impressed by that, although this person has few desirable traits, people seem to like him, and also he gets what he wants by asserting social dominance through being well-liked.
I suspect many of the guys here have heard that, and I am no exception. I used to joke that I was the most attractive guy in the world to women who weren't looking for a relationship because of how frequently married women had wonderful things to say about me. (the most painful was when they implied I must be fighting off the women because I was so wonderful; that certainly never matched my experience)
Since I have gotten married I these comments haven't stopped, though they are now made to my wife instead of me. My wife is constantly being bombarded with "You're so lucky!", "How on earth did you find him?", "Where was he hiding?" and the like. Like others here, not only was I not hiding, but couldn't get a date for the life of me (I can count the women I dated on my thumbs, and interestingly they both asked me out, meaning that exactly 0% of the women I ever asked out said yes).
I don't know why it should be so shocking that if the criteria you use to choose your dates doesn't have anything to do with what you are looking for that the chances of getting what you are looking for are slim. However, it seems that for most people (women and men) the idea of screening candidates by qualities that actually match the things you want is alien.
Or, in other words, you should be smart enough to figure it out.
Not exactly. "Aware" is a better word that "smart". You could have a PHD in financial forecasting or evolutionary biology and still fail to see a person is using you due to emotional feelings.
Simply being aware of your biological limitations doesn't solve the issue either but its a start. It doesn't require any intelligence other willingness to pay attention to yourself and to question your own actions which many in western society see as a character flaw.
But in truth, once you start asking "Why am I doing this?" you see how stupid you can be sometimes.
Of course telling people that love is a chemical that can be synthesized makes you unpopular with the ladies, but I've gotten out of unhealthy relationships with that mentality.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
This research makes just as much sense when flipping it around: If you got some genes that makes the girls come running, it may cause your personality to become self-centered and exploitive.
Or there could be a root cause and have nothing to do with genes at all. For example, "power". Girls like guys with power, while power corrupts the personality.
I lost my sig.
Doesn't matter. If it gets more women, more children are likely to result. Any behavior that results in more children is likely to be selected for because we have such a low mortality rate and competition for survival is low. Competition for resources is not, but it's pretty hard in today's society to well and truly not be able to survive. There are lots of people who "go hungry" but much rarer to have people starve.
This is an unfortunate situation for humanity. On one side, we have to treat everyone as humans, we are all in the same boat together. On the other, we have a variety of incredibly negative selective pressures that could drown our species. We can't advocate social darwinism, we know what that leads to, so I think it's time for science to go up to bat for our future. Not eugenics or darwinism, rather, our goal should be to improve -everyone-. If so-called stupid people reproduce more, and we don't do anything to make everyone smarter, through widely available gene therapy or better schooling or whatnot, then we will eventually have far, far too many of those stupid people.
I don't mean to make any accusations here or insult anyone, but there are a number of traits that are widely agreed upon to be negative that seem to be correlated with reproductive rates. Humanity has been so dominant for so long that there are no selection pressures for the opposite traits, and we're going to be left with the consequences unless some radically successful genetic modifications take place. We cannot, should not ever punish anyone or infringe on the rights of anyone who we think is dumb, or is mean, or is a narcissist merely because of those reasons. I cannot stress enough that isn't a position I advocate. But we can encourage widespread adoption of genetic advancements. It needs to be fair, it needs to be free, and it needs to be global. We managed to eradicate small pox with something remarkably close to gene therapy, it's time to do it again.
The longer we wait the harder it will be to accomplish.
Girls are attracted to that guy who steps on everybody's toes for his own personal gains. A go getter, powerful person who aims high. These are people with leadership qualities, and in the "badboy" circle, they're "ring leaders."
I know a guy like that... he's in college with me; very intelligent, rather charismatic, extremely eloquent and well-educated -- and at the same time very arrogant, narcissistic and even a bit Macchiavellian. Oh, and either very insecure, or very threatened by me. Or both.
Unlike him, I'm rather anti-social and quite geeky and nerdy. When we met, I was in a stable relationship, which has ended in the meantime. He had some short flings, of which I've heard from his ex girlfriends.
Now, when my relationship ended some year and a half ago, we were near the point of mutual disdain; I don't know what exactly about me bothered him, but I find it convenient to simply reciprocate other people's attitudes. Anyway, at that point he was trying to establish his macho identity, juggling around four girlfriends at any given time, though never really getting to sex. That is why some of the single girls he was toying with dumped him. But mostly, he kept trying to steal other guys' partners; I know of at least three relationships he tried to destroy.
Then I got involved with my current girlfriend, who is in college with us, and who is almost as anti-social as I am, and a far better judge of character (so what you're reading is in great part her analysis, as presented to me). And he tried for a coup de grace: stealing his arch-nemesis' girlfriend. I had been pretty broken up about my first break-up, so the second one should have destroyed me, I guess.
Needless to say, my girlfriend would never suffer the likes of me if she weren't madly in love. So his advances were unsuccessful; even more so because I do not act jealous, especially when there is a possibility that I am simply being provoked. She saw through his plan, too (his previous actions with other couples were a dead giveaway), and outright rejected him.
He ended up with a freshman girl, and now appears to be monogamous.
Now, what was this lengthy and probably fairly boring story about: even the so-called bad guys, with everything working for them, don't end up with all the girls.
Most of the girls my colleague had been juggling were quite entranced with him; one of them told me she'd been considering breaking up with her boyfriend for him. But apparently, the bad boy failed to steal a single good guy's girlfriend.
BTW, I don't know whether I qualify as a good guy; I don't care much how people perceive me, but I do know that I tend to come off as arrogant and cynical until you get to know me better.
Point is, bad boys spend quite a bit of energy on getting girls. I watched some of my colleague's efforts, I heard rather more about them, and I know I would never invest so much energy in such a venture. The reason they get more girls, when they do get them, is also correlated with the amount of energy they invest.
I invest my energy in one girl at a time. That means that if I do not succeed, I fail 100%. My colleague, juggling four girls at any given time, fails only 25% whenever he is rejected. And even if each of us courts the same number of girls, he will have gone through his girls much faster than I. This alone gives him "more girls".
Ignore this signature. By order.
I like that article. Reminds me of the Ladder Theory.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
When this topic arises, I often, if not always, link to the article What Happened to All the Nice Guys? .
Every nice guy's recommended reading.
Ignore this signature. By order.
The above post is right, and the suggestion to kiss her is solid and very realistic.
Yes I agree, if she's saying that, then you should try and try hard.
Well basically the male is obligated to try hard with any female he really really wants. It is fine if she says no, but your not trying will just make everyone unhappy.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
That's what happened to me in High School. I was the stereotypical 'nice guy' until I realized that I wasn't being nice as much as I was being horney and (unsuccessfully) using 'nice' as a way to fulfill that need. So, I based my social interactions on the truth, that I was in fact horney, and nice (but not nearly as nice as I had acted before). The nice learned it's limit fast, the horney made itself obvious, but not desperate (lude jokes, obvious sexual passes, but not lamenting about a lack of sex life) and I stopped caring so much. I ended up losing a couple female friends. I also ended up loosing a couple female friends. (my first joke based on a typo! yay!) Overall, just the refreshing honesty of being myself was a relief, the fact that it WORKED, CONSISTENTLY, was outstanding. In fact, by the time I settled down, I was picking and choosing between women.
I still wore glasses, I still was fat (250 or so on a 5'11" frame, I didn't lose any weight until I was nearly married), but I was witty (like most nerds can be when not overwhelmingly nervous) I was seemingly confident (it was actually apathy, at first) and I was laid on a regular basis.
There ya go, neomunk's nerd-dating testimonial. You can live your dreams, I'm living proof... Beefcake!
You said, "Women who are abused are not the ones to blame. They are the ones who have the power to stop it but they are not really to blame."
Yes, women are to blame for what they do. They have the same responsibility for their own actions as men.
This is just more of the same old Slashdot pseudo-science that is posted as a real story.
"Bad boys" communicate that women have no responsibility toward them. That's what women want when they just want to have sex. Only that. Try it yourself. If you communicate that women have no responsibility, they will want sex with you, too.
You might need considerable practice, because at present you may have no idea what you are actually communicating.
Yes, it is a compliment when a woman wants to be intimate with you. But, after a lot of that, it gets annoying. Only a real, responsible relationship with a woman who wants to be true partners will give you what you need as a human.
If you communicate that you want a real relationship, then it will be difficult to find a woman in the United States, because the culture in the United States is going through a period in which women are very negative toward men.
Try different countries. Things can be very, very different in a country other than your home country. Put on a backpack and hitchike through Europe during the summer. I recommend the Greek island of Ios in July. (But, I haven't been there in a long time.) The Greeks are nice but the real attraction is other travelers from all over Europe. Two-thousand-five-hundred women and an equal number of men, with nothing to do but socialize.
Take buses and trains in less-developed countries. Stay in cheap hostels for backpackers. Read Let's Go: Europe. Read the Lonely Planet guides. You will meet women travelers who are a bit different because they also have decided to do a little more with their lives than stay home.
If you want a wife, try looking in Brazil, where women are a little less religious about avoiding responsibility. If you look in Brazil, don't just marry the first Brazilian woman who seems wonderful. Talk to your woman about responsibility. If you don't get good answers, try other women. Learn the Brazilian culture. Learn the Brazilian social sophistication.
You might also try Thailand, but you would probably need to learn to speak and write Thai, and you would need to learn an Asian culture, and it would be more difficult to find a truly mature woman. Remember the lyrics of the song "One night in Bangkok". Don't just fall in love with the first Thai woman who is nice to you.
Quote from the song: "One night in Bangkok and the tough guys tumble. Can't be too careful with your company."
The song is about a real event. One year the world chess championship was held in Thailand. The men went out at night, and were not prepared for the experience of being treated with gentleness. The Dalai Lama says that Thai people are gentle, and he's right.
I've seen it myself. One night, a long time ago, standing on the corner of Patpong road, a western woman was trying to get control over her western man again after he had seen in a Thai bar that a woman could be truly gentle with a man. All the man had known in his entire life, apparently, was women being harsh with men.
Again, don't marry the first Thai woman who is nice to you. Learn the culture. Learn the special challenges of being multi-cultural yourself and having a multi-cultural relationship.
A good idea, if you are in a country in which the native language is not English, is to hang around a school that teaches English. When you see a woman who is interesting, offer to have a conversation in English with her, so that she can practice, if she will teach you the Thai culture. In Thailand, you might try visiting the
His theory is that they now have daughters in high school, and wish their daughters were interested in males like him, and not like the ones they themselves had dated.
Not to be mean, but you wasted your best fuck years in your teens and twenties....
1) Virtually all studies agree conclude that the vast majority of heterosexual males go a lifetime with fewer than 15 partners. And many conclude numbers half that. Look it up. I'm -possibly- slightly below average in partner count, but I doubt it.
2) Its not like a low number of partners predicts a low frequency of sex. In fact, most studies conclude that sexually active couples in their teens and 20s generally have far more sex than 'sexually active singles'.
3) I think most people who've tried both agree that 'one night stand sex', especially while intoxicated, is actually generally pretty lousy.
Thanks for your concern, but I really didn't 'miss out' on all that much.
I'm just starting to figure out this technique myself. I'm 23, and a recovering nice guy. Not only was I aloof during high school, I didn't figure it out in college either. But now, I'm starting (crosses fingers) to make up for lost time.
Here are a few things I've learned in the short time since I started to "get it":
Overall, cast a wide net. The probability of success is not quite 0. The more women you talk to, the greater the chance of succeeding with one of them.
Really?
That is really news to me. I am WAY behind some people I know...and while I don't actually remember all the women I slept with...names and all...I was between 35-45 way back a few years ago when we sat around and tried to name them all with some friends. And..these were friends I trust and it wasn't a dick swinging contest that night either...it was as honest as I could believe it could be. Again....I was low head count out of many of the group.
I know guys in the hundreds...and they're not rock stars either...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The Dalai Lama.
King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand.
Many would say Senator Obama.
All the rest of the examples I can think of now are dead.
Therefore, this is being biologically ingrained in us by women. Which is not to say that it's not biologically ingrained in them, too.
The other thing I find offensive about calling sex with men violent is that presently 50% of the males born right now in this country get some of the most sensitive parts of their penis removed in a routine medical operation (furthermore, when the "sex with men is violence" meme arose, it was closer to 80% of male babies). This is mutilation, even when there are no complications, such as the skin ending up too tight, or the shaft getting damage, resulting in a dysfunctionally bent penis, or part of the glans being removed, or hemmorraging. Anyway, best-case scenario, you desensitize the penis, which makes guys like rougher sex with unnatural levels of friction.
It's hilarious when a feminist tells you that circumcision isn't genital mutilation. Maybe next time one does, you can slap her and get laid. :D
(disclaimer: don't slap the bitches)
Please stop stalking me, bro.
There is a large amount of time difference in the time a 'nice' guy will spend trying to seduce... and the amount of time a 'bad' guy will take to brush off the one who's not putting out.
Indeed. Many years ago I had a friend who was not what one would call handsome, but was one of these "bad boys" who slept with many, many, women. He even revealed one how he did it - if he asked 50 women in a night, he knew he'd get at least one. Clearly he was not in the least bit emotionally invested, and to cover that number of women he'd be spending maybe 5 minutes on each one before moving on.
The "nice" guy on the other hand is more likely to obsess on one woman the entire night (if he gets that far), and might cover 50 women in a year or two. He gets emotionally invested very quickly.
Of course the "nice guy" might not find it particularly appealing to succeed in the same manner the "bad boy" does since the "nice guy" may be more about quality rather than quantity. The number of diseased, drug-f***ed women and emotional wrecks he got involved with was scary.
This is not to say you need to adopt the "bad boy" approach if you want to succeed either. Merely adjusting expectations can do wonders - think of the person as just a person rather than as a prospective mate.
I followed your link, and I laughed. Then I saw that it got modded Interesting, and I cried.
A geek who is married. I will agree with this. I got lucky, My wife was having a hard time in her life when I met her, she was out of place and in a foreign country. I stepped in as the "nice" guy I had always been told by women and books that I should be. Months went by, and suddenly one night I had this terrible day, I was stressed out, and ready to kill someone. She came by for help with an english paper.
I without thinking, already on edge, suddenly kissed her. Suddenly, I stopped being the nice guy, and turned into the guy who unexpectedly kissed her and grabbed her rear end.
Over time, I found out that polite, tame, and watered down was not what she wanted, and she claims no girl wants that. It makes them feel that they are with a weak man that will not protect or provide in rough times.
I learned that they want a manly man. I don't mean the jock. They want a man who cares, loves, and is kind to them. But is strong, powerful, and "manly".
The jocks give them the part that makes them get attracted. But they lack the decency of a good character and temperament that provides a life long mate. We can do the second part, but many of us do not have the instinctual understanding of how to act dominate. And that dominance shows a safe place to raise children, have a home that is protected. Or we have become afraid that we will be seen as a brute.
But being strong does not mean being brutish. This applies in many situations when interacting with women. Have a heart, but let it be strong and conquer. This applies to many situations, in conversation, relationship, and the bedroom.
They come to you to cry because you are a man, but a if you never act like it, the signal of sexual attraction will never come through the static.
You must combine that jock "take what I want" and "I don't need you" composure and actions, and then after you have them on the hook, let them see that you will be a caring, loving protector.
I think this discussion is incomplete without mentioning This Article on Myth and Truths about Women. ............
No Go help yourself by reading it .
Whats the point of doing expensive research [with TAx Dollar] to re confirm which we all know since
ARE YOU PEOPLE LISTENING TO YOURSELVES?
Your post is great, actually, but I dont agree it has to do with being nice. I think you just became more confident. Its not a "technique".
Please lets get back to our browser war discussions before the women reading slashdot take notice and decide that we really arent a good idea after all.