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RFID Tags Can Interfere With Medical Devices

An anonymous reader writes "A new study suggests RFID systems can cause 'potentially hazardous incidents in medical devices.' (Here is the JAMA study's abstract.) Among other things, electrical interference changed breathing machines' ventilation rates and caused syringe pumps to stop. Some hospitals have already begun using RFID tags to track a wide variety of medical devices, but the new finding suggests the systems may have unintended consequences."

37 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. This is too much by Mensa+Babe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The radio frequency identification, or RFID, is an inherently flawed idea. It is a technological solution to a social problem that it created. It is a threat to our security, our privacy, our freedom, and now also our health! And this is not a just conspiracy theory. Some of the most respectable members of our society are protesting against RFID technology, including Bruce Schneier and even Richard Stallman. My only question is, how much more insult to our intelligence can we take as a society before we start actively protesting? Our freedom, our privacy, our health and our dignity is being taken from us and all we can do is complain on the Internet? Where are the protesting groups? Where are the outraged people desperate to change the situation? Where are the angry mobs? What else are we going to let them take away from us before we stop talking and start acting?

    --
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    1. Re:This is too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By merely asking the questions and and taking an outraged tone you're really doing no more than the people you're chastising. Instead of making vague mentions of what "we" should do, name a time and a place for people in your area to congregate and discuss action to take, and perhaps set up a website to help others in their area do the same.

      I don't disagree with your sentiment one bit, which is why I encourage you to take your own advice.

      If you're now thinking that I'm a hypocrite for not doing the same I'll simply point out that I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic for this particular issue, but when it comes to taking action against this here I'll be more then happy to do my part.

    2. Re:This is too much by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right. Because "quickly locating a very expensive portable medical device which may have been left in the wrong room in a 10,000-room hospital" is a problem that didn't exist before those evil overlords invented it. Heck, even the "gee it would be nice to track my supply chain better" problems are fundamentally real. And these things work.

      You talk of privacy issues and such? Oh, you betcha! They're real. But you can't pretend it's not a useful technology. That is the real insult to intelligence in this thread.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    3. Re:This is too much by SomeJoel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you suggesting that because of some perceived misuse of the technology, we should protest its existence? RFID readers are used in some semiconductor manufacturing fabs to track carriers (and hence wafers). These allow for faster and easier reading than other tracking devices, such as barcode readers. This generally make an automated fab run more smoothly, and increases throughput. I don't think this particular use violates your security, privacy, or freedom.

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    4. Re:This is too much by fragmentate · · Score: 2, Funny
      You had me...

      Right up until you brought up Richard Stallman.

      That guy would protest clean underwear, not just RFID tagged underwear.

      Next.

    5. Re:This is too much by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

      But you can't pretend it's not a useful technology.
      If they want to put them on expensive medical equipment, I'm OK with that. But I absolutely don't want them on anything I carry,or wear, or my car, or my bike, not even my rollerblades. Certainly not on my currency or anything I use as currency. And I don't want them on my self (Google "SWIFT" and be appalled).

      Besides the fact that I find this surveillance culture creepy as hell, and absolutely do not trust any of the people who are likely to have access to the data, there are the clear religious implications, since as everybody knows THEY ARE THE MARK OF MOTHERFUCKING CAIN AND THEIR USE HERALDS THE COMING OF THE ANTICHRIST (or something).

      Other than that, I'm cool with the RFIDs.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:This is too much by flaming+error · · Score: 2, Informative

      "quickly locating a very expensive portable medical device which may have been left in the wrong room in a 10,000-room hospital" Who/what are you quoting? RFID is good at identifying things you have, not finding things you've lost. Distances like 30 cm aren't much help "in a 10,000-room hospital".
    7. Re:This is too much by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am on the same page as you. I suspect I am old enough to be one of the few people here who have had to do pre-IT work in my younger days. I once worked for a gigantic (800,000 sq ft) food distribution center. Many times, the outside of pallets "packages" would have the bar codes scraped off them due to handling with forklifts, lift-clamps, etc. If I had the option of just driving a big palette of food products through a scanning device that counted the products and gave me weights automatically, it would have added up to likely 10 hours of time saved per loader a week. Not to mention the hazards of having to get on and off an industrial lift repeatedly all day long, the shock to joints, the static discharge (sometimes reaching an 8" arc), and so on would have been nice to cut down on.

      My impression with a lot of the folks who play a scared advocate on such technologies don't have much of a grasp of what the rest of the world has to put up with in their day-to-day experiences and could care less about their lives being easier, because, there *might* be some madman somewhere ready to spy on them given the chance. These same people probably do their banking online, have credit cards, and homes without decent security systems. Those are the real things to worry about, in my opinion.

      This same line of thought often reminds me of the "sticking it to the man" attitude I see around here a lot. Like "It's about time Company X learned it's lesson", well, Company X doesn't usually learn a lesson. The individuals on the lower end of the employment ladder just get treated worse, while the shareholders and executives don't really have much to worry about. Or, "Corporate greed", got to love that one. It's the individual greed of many people combined with a lot of Joes trying to keep their households afloat. There I go rambling again.

    8. Re:This is too much by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, my company occasionally works with active, battery-powered RFID tag technology. They chirp location beacons by themselves. I understand most of the applications are currently more "warehouse" than "hospital", though.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    9. Re:This is too much by GoodNicksAreTaken · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who/what are you quoting? RFID is good at identifying things you have, not finding things you've lost. Distances like 30 cm aren't much help "in a 10,000-room hospital". You know, like how a barcode can't tell you where your package is if it is 1,000 miles away. Distances like 5cm aren't much help on a planet this size.
  2. Interference in medicine by neapolitan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Interesting -- Slashdot has talked about this kind of thing before and I remember responding:

    http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=234315&cid=19078365

    Every time I read something like this I get a bit frustrated. I can't paste the whole article for copyright reasons, but I am hoping a kind AC will. Either way, the gist of the article is that when very close (some have interference "distances" of 0.1 cm) RFID active readers / transmitters may interfere with some medical equipment.

    The interobserver variability in the study was high, and they defined an event very broadly, essentially as any change in the operation of a device. It is a bit aggressive -- and I fear that good technology may inadvertently be stifled for "interference" concerns...

    --
    Slashdotter, ID #101. UIDs are in binary, right?
    1. Re:Interference in medicine by Gewalt · · Score: 2, Informative

      can't paste the whole article for copyright reasons, but I am hoping a kind AC will.

      Believe it or not, but you too can actually post as AC! It's amazing, I know! Just check that box you see right after the subject of your post.

      --
      Modding Trolls +1 inciteful since 1999
    2. Re:Interference in medicine by mrbluze · · Score: 3, Informative

      The interobserver variability in the study was high, and they defined an event very broadly

      It was the same with mobile phones - in almost all circumstances they made absolutely no difference, since practically all devices are properly shielded. But we kept the "Switch off your fuckin phone" signs up because it was just plain annoying when patients (especially teenage females) are forever texting and chatting when you're trying to explain a procedure to them.

      OTOH I think RFID tags and many other technological 'enhancements' are thrust upon the medical industry by IT reps and accepted by hospital committees without answering the fundamental questions: Does it save money, will it help patients, will it make our jobs easier?

      Most of the time the devices don't do any of the three.

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    3. Re:Interference in medicine by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can corroborate your basic point, and the sad part is that my data is 10 years old. Back then wireless ethernet (2Mbps pre-b stuff, even) was new and we were testing for interference. The very same kinds of machines had trouble as in TFS, and it was at sub-foot ranges.

      I suspect either this study tested old gear (I'm assuming our hospital used a popular vendor) or the same vendors are playing lazy. Back then, the biomedical engineering guys explained to me that the FCC granted exceptions to medical device manufacturers for emitted interference, and that an emitter is a receiver, but that most good medical products companies didn't need to bother with these exceptions, they did a fine job on principle.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  3. Let's just hope... by katterjohn · · Score: 2, Funny

    ..that people with these devices don't receive any mail via snail.

  4. Hazardous by electricbern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I dub thee harzardous technology of the week. You can now join the cellphone, TV, radio, power grid, Internet, and so on in the list of hazardous technology. Welcome on board.

    --
    alias possession='chmod 666 satan && ls /dev > il && tail daemon.log'
  5. Need in health care for asset tracking by steeljaw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Interestingly enough, I've been approached 3 times now by people in the health care industry who have expressed a need for some time of asset tracking software and I've always given them my brother's card (his company specializes in RFID based asset tracking). Actually, one person specifically asked me if I was capable of integrating an RFID solution into their environment. I wonder how many companies are currently developing RFID based software geared towards the health care industry only to receive a backlash from the medical community when this type of information becomes common knowledge..

    --
    Procrastinators, Unite Tomorrow!!
  6. Oh, please by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lets take these points one by one. First, it is not a flawed idea, it is a flawed implementation. All privacy concerns can be easily mitigated, with or without cooperation from RFID manufacturers. Pop your undies in the microwave for ten seconds and they won't be reporting back to the mothership, don't worry. Second, they are a technological solution to a physical, not social problem: inventory tracking. The fact that they are being used in other ways does not change the fact that this is what they were invented for, and they do a good job keeping costs down and efficiency up.

    Bruce was complaining about their use in passports. So, screen the passports so they can't be read unless opened. Besides the passport issue, here is Stallman's fear:

    Progress in gel batteries could result in RFIDs readable from 300 feet. If one of them is inserted in something you carry, you could be scanned from a block away! Total monitoring of everyone's movements could be a reality. Gosh, that could never happen with any other kind of technology, oh wait, spies have been doing that for years, and tracking people over a much longer distance. How would protesting RFID change that, exactly? There are much, much scarier things to protest against than RFID tags, get some perspective please.
    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Oh, please by johnny+cashed · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pop your undies in the microwave for ten seconds and they won't be reporting back to the mothership, don't worry.

      But it is what's in my undies that concerns me...

      on another tangent...

      But how do I know that my microwave doesn't have an RFID reader that enables it to know that there is an RFID tag inside and it only goes through the motions of microwaving my undies, thereby rendering any RFID chip(s) in my undies untouched and fully functional? Far fetched? Future microwave dinners and popcorn might have RFID tags embedded which tell various microwave oven how long to cook the product. Can I get thicker tinfoil for my hat?

    2. Re:Oh, please by spun · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh man, you are using actual tinfoil for your hat? You know that's made from aluminum, right? Aluminum amplifies the mind control rays.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    3. Re:Oh, please by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      Fear not, Ice T and Henry Rollins will have a microwave that is free of government control. You will be able to take your undies to them for sanitization.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Oh, please by johnny+cashed · · Score: 2, Funny

      No No, it's tinfoil all right. It says so on the label...wait a minute, how do I know if Fisher Scientific isn't in on it as well... Everyone is conspiring against me...

    5. Re:Oh, please by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 2, Funny

      But how do I know that my microwave doesn't have an RFID reader that enables it to know that there is an RFID tag inside and it only goes through the motions of microwaving my undies, thereby rendering any RFID chip(s) in my undies untouched and fully functional? Far fetched? Future microwave dinners and popcorn might have RFID tags embedded which tell various microwave oven how long to cook the product. Can I get thicker tinfoil for my hat? Simple, but some pizza in cheese and nachos in thier with your undies,
      if the cheese melts, the microwave worked your undies are now untaged
      if the cheese doesn't melt, the microwave is goverment controlled AND you dont have any cheese nachos, so you pretty fucked tbh.
      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    6. Re:Oh, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, just stick an AOL CD in there with it. If the AOL CD is disabled, then so is your underwear. ;)

      -Huck

    7. Re:Oh, please by KGIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Err... Don't the RFID tags actually, you know, just exist? They don't acquire new data (such as where you've been) I don't think? If they did then I got my information mixed up which isn't entirely unlikely. But, assuming that they contain only the picture of you (and perhaps your country of origin) then wouldn't the person in the hotel lobby just get, you know, a picture of you (which they'd already seen you and stuffs) and your country of origin which, well, is probably something they could figure out pretty easily by listening to your accent? It seems like a rather silly way to spend your money when you can likely just ask the average (non-spy) tourist, "Hey, where are you from?" They'll probably happily tell you. Add to that a cell phone and, well, you get their picture too. But, maybe I'm getting the technology wrong... They call 'em RFID readers, not RFID R/Ws so I'm pretty sure they just store the above mentioned static data.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  7. More Slashdot pseudo-science by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Thanks for adding some sensible information to the discussion. Slashdot editors seem not to be able to know the difference between science and foolish imaginings.

    Here is a quote, a comment to the Wall Street Journal story:

    "interference changed breathing machines' ventilation rates and caused syringe pumps to stop."
    These things are FCC regulated. Should I feel safe knowing that not only are some of the systems in a hospital sensitive to EMF below FCC limits, but also that several life-critical devices FAIL under such radiation levels? For example, WHY should a syringe pump be designed so fragile that some radio waves can cause it to utterly stop?
    Comment by RH - June 24, 2008 at 5:00 pm


    Exactly. That's what I would have said. Here's another comment (my emphasis):

    The usual ignorant hysteria. First of all, the test was of the reader, not the tags. "The median distance between the RFID reader and the medical device in all EMI incidents was 30 cm (range, 0.1-600 cm)." Second, and not available in the abstract is the AE classification. OBTW, Berwick is a shill for the trial lawyers, not a serious person.
    Comment by jon - June 24, 2008 at 6:06 pm

  8. FUD and title errors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if you ignore this article's lack of specifics or detail (which makes it more or less FUD in my view), the title /. gave it is *flatly incorrect*. It's not the tags that are causing the interference; it is the reader/interrogator. These inexpensive passive UHF tags are just that, passive; it's the active (4W) signal that might be able to interfere.

    Yes, there are serious concerns with RFID, but there's no point spreading vague FUD. In medical applications, interference obviously a very serious matter. Several groups are working on this problem, so how about we wait until we have solid results before we make up our minds?

  9. Well??? by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why are these medical devices having problems like that? I thought medical devices were SUPPOSED to be hardened against bad things and fail over nicely.

    I guess not.

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    1. Re:Well??? by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did I say impervious?

      Nope.

      We, instead, could detect false signals and ring a bell on what the designer thinks is "very bad input". These device guys know how the biology works, and what signals are just impossible. Instead of catching every last remnant of EM, they could catch errors and loudly warn the nurse/physician like INTERFERENCE DETECTED signal.

      If there were bad EM detectors built into life-critical devices, FCC Part 18 solves that issue rather well.

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  10. The headline is wrong, as usual. by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The interference came from the readers not the tags. The tags are passive.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:The headline is wrong, as usual. by TheMonkeyhouse · · Score: 2, Informative

      if you read the link you will see that they tested both passive and active tags and the passive tags scored a higher problem score.

      the implication from the limited text is that they were using the same reader (although this is not confirmed) but the difference in tags did change the issue rate, so the tags do share part of the problem.

  11. Pros and cons by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Insightful
    First off, lets be pedantic. RFID tags are passive (well slightly active while transponding) and don't cause problems just sitting there. It is the readers that cause the problems.

    The field drops off at a square of distance, so a RFID reader at 10cm will have one hundredth the EM field of a reader at 1cm.

    A huge % of medical deaths are due to human error (wrong drugs/dosage etc)and the correct use of RFID can go a long way to mitigate that. Clearly that would be offset if the RFID equipment was to interfere with equipment.

    Medical devices should be designed to be highly robust to EM interference, but the flip side to that is that often the sensors need to be very sensitive to detect slight electrical signals in the body (pulse, brain activity etc). Still, it should be possible to design equipment that is not degraded by RFID readers.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  12. Safety Recalls Needed by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The machines that suffered dangerous faults should be recalled and repaired. Keeping them away from RFID readers and other sources of rf will not suffice. The fact that rf interference could cause dangerous faults means that they contain design defects such that component failures or other sorts of damage or interference could also cause dangerous faults.

    And yes, I have designed medical life support equipment, though not in this century.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Safety Recalls Needed by CodeBuster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't this why the FCC here in the United States classifies different electronic devices according to whether or not they can emit or must accept radio frequency interference from outside sources? Perhaps the medical device manufacturers have a more critical classification where they have the "right" not to be interfered with (unlike say, your iPod which must accept any outside interference and generate none of its own) and designed their systems around this assumption of legal protection by device classifications?

  13. More than just the devices... by ravergonemad · · Score: 2, Informative

    In the coming years most of the containers for drugs could have RFID tags. California is pushing through a new law (E-Pedigree Law http://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/about/e_pedigree_laws.shtml) that creates a chain of custody for any drug. RFID has been one of the recommended technologies to help manufactures and everyone else in the supply-chain to deal with this law.

    Having boxes with hundreds of RFID tags rolling down the hallways of a hospital doesn't seem so safe now!

    1. Re:More than just the devices... by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It also makes it much more easier for "Highway Pirates" to target specific types of merchandise. Here in Claifornia, many truck drivers are targets of well-planned hijackings where criminals steal whatever the trucker is hauling for sale on the black market. A good RFID reader would allow gangs to easily discriminate profitable targets from unprofitable targets (i.e. iPhones and plasma TVs from spinach and brussels sprouts.).

      Personally, I don't like the idea of tracking every single thing, including people, with RFID tags. Yes, they may be useful in tracking inventory, but far greater security needs to be used.

      Whats especially troubling is the plan to line "International Corridors" in the U.S. with Chinese-monitored RFID readers.

      --
      Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
  14. Re:Electromagnetic Compatability Study Needed by EMCEngineer · · Score: 2, Informative

    If the devices carry a CE mark(which would be required to sell in the EU), they had EMC testing done on them.

    The basic EMC standard for medical devices is EN 60601-1-2. For radiated interference, it requires testing from 80 to 2500 MHz - 3 V/m for non-lifesupporting equipment and 10 V/m for lifesupporting equipment. This is a 1 kHz AM modulated signal.

    There are further requirements for implantable devices and some other life supporting equipment. EN 45502 has magnetic field requirements, and AAMI PC69 covers cell phone frequencies with a pulsed test.

    There is at present no requirement to test at the specific frequencies that may be used for RFID and the like, and no requirement to use a modulation similar to what they employ.