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Workplace BlackBerry Use May Spur Lawsuits

An anonymous reader writes "From an article on cnbc.com: 'As employers hand out electronic devices to their employees at a greater pace, there are growing concerns that workers eligible for overtime pay, known as non-exempt employees, could begin suing their employers for overtime hours earned while tapping on their devices during after-work hours. As a result, lawyers are advising their corporate clients to update their policies and handbooks related to BlackBerry use and reconsider who gets a device.'"

33 of 286 comments (clear)

  1. Blackberries establish your dominance! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    It clearly separates you from the sheeple and establish your dominance over the herd. It establishes that you're a go-getter, instead of one of those hippies with an iphone.

    And everyone knows, blackberries make assholes more versatile.

  2. Turned it down by willyhill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In 2003-2004 at my previous employer the company rolled out Blackberries to management and "key" personnel. Being responsible for a relatively large part of the infrastructure at this joint, I also got one.

    One day I arrived at work and found the messaging group folks had delivered the BBs to some of the people in my area, and there was a box in my desk as well, with a little booklet (the must have cost a fortune to print, it was that well done) with usage policy (of course), instructions and steps for setting it up. The younger kids were besides themselves and already setting up the sync cradles and sending messages to each other. I picked up the phone and called the project manager, who was a friend of mine. I asked him to send one of his people to pick the box up.

    "But everyone's getting one."
    "I don't care, I don't want it."
    "You are on Tier 1 and you're supposed to be on call..."
    "I am. I have a cell phone, and if the IPC melts down at 3 AM, someone can call me."
    "But this lets you check your email!"
    "That's exactly why I don't want it"

    A few days of back and forth politik ensued, and eventually my boss relented and let me be. Note that this was the time when the devices could not make phone calls - I hear they can now. Oh joy.

    I figured that once I had that thing I'd never be able to get away from it, even on vacation. And that's exactly what happened to everyone else. People won't think twice about sending you an email for stupid little things at 10:00 PM, because they're working and figure everyone else should be as well. But making a phone call is very different, and most people won't do it unless it's something really important. People think it's no big deal because it's just a message. Bullshit.

    If the data center is on fire, sure I want to know, no matter what time it is. But I don't want to hear little pings and murmurs from a PDA next to my bed because some VP couldn't find a file for tomorrow's presentation, or a fscking file server is down and Julie in accounting can't get to it. All that can wait until the morning.

    If I had taken the thing and ended up in that 24/7/365 situation I don't think I'd sue my employer, but I would have probably ended up leaving a lot sooner than I did. Probably even if I were eligible for overtime. A case of "they ain't paying me enough for this crap" if I ever saw one.

    --
    The twitter monologues. Click on my homepage and be amazed.
    1. Re:Turned it down by ckaminski · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why? They don't PAY me for 24/7 support, and it's not end-of-business threatening. If they want it done so bad, they can call my boss and have him call me to fix it, with the understanding that I get a comp day. Period.

      I'm not going to let my blackberry wake me up for every little email thrown out.

    2. Re:Turned it down by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I figured that once I had that thing I'd never be able to get away from it, even on vacation. And that's exactly what happened to everyone else. People won't think twice about sending you an email for stupid little things at 10:00 PM, because they're working and figure everyone else should be as well. But making a phone call is very different, and most people won't do it unless it's something really important. People think it's no big deal because it's just a message. Bullshit.

      See, I never used mine that way when I had it. My policy was if it was really important, you gave me a call. Emails were only checked maybe twice a day on the weekends and if it wasn't important (which it hardly ever was) it would wait until Monday.

      Berries are one of those tools that are very good when used appropriately and hazardous to your well-being if used improperly. Most people use them improperly. I feel the exact same way about remote access tools. As an IT guy, I think they're great. I can log in, do the two second task I have to, and then I'm done. Regular employees don't like it because it means that the big pile of work on their desks feels like it's staring at them through the intertubes, demanding their attention. "I don't want to be able to work from home, I don't even want to know I'm able to do so!" some people have pleaded with me. I can understand.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    3. Re:Turned it down by corbettw · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anyone else find it ironic that someone who complains about people bugging him at all hours of the night for work, has his twitter info in his sig?

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    4. Re:Turned it down by NMerriam · · Score: 5, Informative

      If a fsking fileserver is down you should be freaking fixing it, not waiting till hundreds or thousands of manhours have been wasted the next morning!

      If the file server is that important, they should have 24/7 staff on-site to keep it running.

      You can't complain about the prohibitive cost of having a professional IT staff available all hours and then turn around and say what a financial disaster it would be if they weren't there.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    5. Re:Turned it down by Martin+Blank · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm the same way. I give notice to my colleagues of when I'm going on vacation, and I make it clear to them that for the duration of my vacation, I will NOT have my Blackberry with me. To make the point doubly clear, on my last day before vacation, I will point out that the Blackberry is in its cradle at the end of the day, and not on my person.

      I am part of an on-call rotation. I will answer the phone if it rings while I'm not on-call, but I do not check my e-mail unless I hear it buzzing incessantly (I leave it on vibrate) for an inordinate amount of time, which means that a lot of messages are coming in and something is probably seriously broken and I'll be called anyway. If I am on-call, I check the subjects of messages but will only open them if they appear to be something about which I need to be concerned. Other than that, it goes back in the holster.

      The Blackberry has its use. Its use is not to enslave me. Considering that the employer recently took actions in my favor to try to ensure that I will not leave in the near future, I suspect they know that pushing me on this (if they were so inclined) would not improve their position.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    6. Re:Turned it down by SkyDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You must be new here - you're much too normal to be a real /.er.

      One young whippersnapper made the comment that you must be an ornery old-time that didn't want to learn new technology. He may be joking, but he's probably a complete ageist, as you know your industry is full of them.

      While I appreciate and enjoy the incredible technology that has made the BB possible, these kids need to know there was a good life before BBs and cell phones and 24/7/365 connectivity. I don't want any of it to go away, but all the tech has one common trait - a switch that allows the user to turn them off. And if they don't, take out the damn battery.

      Life can be so quiet.......

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
    7. Re:Turned it down by radish · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well you don't have to look at it.

      I've carried a work BB for a few years now and I don't think it's been a negative thing at all. No one expects me to be checking email at the weekend so they still have to phone if it's urgent. If I'm on vacation the BB loses it's battery and goes in a drawer. However, if I want to check my morning meeting schedule before going to bed it takes 30 seconds (rather than having to fire up the VPN) and if I do get a call at some ungodly hour I can quickly check the mail trail to see what's been going on. I find it very convenient to be able to get to my work email quickly when I choose to, I don't feel under any pressure to do so more than I would do anyway.

      One thing I'm very clear about is that I still carry a personal phone. That way, when I'm not on company time I can choose whether to take the BB or not. Clear separation of work and home life is important.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    8. Re:Turned it down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They don't PAY me for 24/7 support,

      Then turn off the Blackberry. It DOES have an off switch, right??

    9. Re:Turned it down by afidel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, wow. Seriously it's people like you who make PHB's look at IT as a cost center instead of a strategic asset. The only reason companies have an IT department is to make the other employees more efficient, if you let a server stay down until the morning when everyone else comes in then take a couple hours to half a day to fix it (typical repair times for anything non-trivial regardless of OS) then you've just cost the business .25-.5x the number of employees on that server in man-days. Sure you might be able to sell that as the reason to go with clustering or other HA solutions, but often the wallet just doesn't open that far. On the other hand if you get off your lazy butt and fix it when your monitoring systems tell you it's broke you've just cost the company a total of say 1 man day, your comp day. I seriously don't understand the "it's someone elses problem, if they really want it fixed they can call me" attitude.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    10. Re:Turned it down by NMerriam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Look, if you like being the hero and accepting more responsibility with no increase in compensation, feel free. If I need to be on call 24/7 to personally reboot computers, it will be reflected in my paycheck and scheduled in a professional manner so I know which periods I need to be available. Don't just hand out Blackberries and act like you're giving employees a treat by allowing them to instantly respond to any issues that arise any time of day or night.

      If you need 24/7 support, then you pay for it. If 24/7 support is necessary for your company to be efficient, then pay for it. If you call a plumber at 3am, it will cost you a small fortune. But if the option is waiting until 9am when the plumber is cheaper and having the entire building flooded and all your employees sent home, then I guess the cost is worth it. Why do you think IT staff should behave less professionally than the average plumber?

      If you expect to be treated like a professional, you have to act like one, and part of acting like one is negotiating responsibilities and compensation.

      If someone needs me at 3am to accomplish a critical task, it's important enough for them to pick up the phone and call me and personally explain why I need to get out of bed and do this task right at this moment. I guaran-fucking-tee you that's the same answer your CEO would give to this question. And when we're done with the 3am task, he and I are both going to sit you down and ask why your poor planning required us to get out of bed at 3am to save your ass.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    11. Re:Turned it down by metlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At the end of the day, it boils down to the lifestyle that you choose to have, I guess. Me, I cannot imagine my work life without my Blackberry.

      That said, it is a very conscious choice that I made. I am a management consultant (cue the Douglas Adams jokes), and if something needs to be done at 2 AM on a Saturday night while on vacation, I do it. Hell, my manager is on vacation in the Virgin Islands this week and I get emails from him at 5 AM asking for updates.

      To me, this is perfectly acceptable because I chose this lifestyle knowing full well the ramifications. I had a nice 9-5 corporate job, but at the end of the day, it was slow, work was challenging but not trying and there was a ton of mediocrity around. These days, I've a job where I fly out every week, work 60 hours on a good week and 80+ on a bad one, and it is strictly up or out. Given my lifestyle and the amount of travel I do, my Blackberry is my lifeline.

      And just to your point, at least in my friends circle, receiving phone calls at 10 PM, 12 AM or even 4 AM is not out of the ordinary (and we are not talking about IT, either - a lot of them are in consulting or finance). It is just part of the lifestyle that we chose, and to us, it is quite normal.

      That said, there are also times when folks decide to go incommunicado because they can't take it. That's fine, too. But I guess my point is that just because you can receive an email in the middle of the night does not mean you should reply to it. Secondly, you can always turn it on Silent - which is what I do if I do not want to be interrupted (important presentation, dinner date etc).

      And oh some level, I find it strange when someone does not want a Blackberry. My only phone is my Blackberry, and to me, it is a one-stop solution. My calendar, my address book, my email, IM and everything else is all rolled into one. I can travel wherever I want, and as long as I have my Blackberry, I am quite content.

      And to the point about compensation for overtime - while I do make a decent amount of money, I also put in enough of an effort in it. I do my job because I enjoy doing it, and folks that signed up for something knowing full well the outcome, and seek compensation later, should perhaps look for a different career path.

  3. Obviously given to the wrong employees by wvmarle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Blackberries are imho meant for those people who for whatever reason can't stop working. Business owners, sales people working on commission only, that idea. And of course that are exactly the people for whom working hours don't count. I'm one of them, even though I don't have nor want a blackberry. If people need to reach me so urgently they can use the phone.

    This also makes me wonder, what is a blackberry doing in the hands of employees with fixed working hours? Why are they given one by the company in the first place? This are generally the lower ranked people (now I don't know US labour laws very much) - they have fixed working hours obviously, and are supposed to do (and finish) their work within those hours. I can't think of any reason why they would possibly need one such devices. They are at work, then work, and then will have a computer at hand. If it is the kind of employee that is supposed to run around all the time, e-mail won't be of much interest for them either.

    No matter what I think this is mostly a story about the inappropriate use of a technology. The enormous urge of being "ahead of the pack" when it comes to adapting new tech. It is high tech, it is new, "everybody" uses it, etc. That kind of thinking. It sounds like a disconnect between the ideas of the top management and the actual tasks of the workers.

    Add to that the idea that all employees want to be important, and having a blackberry these days is for sure equivalent to being important (until recently it were only the high-fliers that would have a need for it and could afford one), so everybody will happily accept a blackberry without thinking about whether they really need one. And then those lower ranked employees also get addicted, forget that they have working hours, start working overtime, and poof, lawsuit!

    I truly hope the employees lose in this case, as I consider it unasked for overtime. Completely voluntary overtime. Unless the employers gave the blackberry with the message "now you are reachable at all times", in which case the employer deserves to lose - if only for sheer stupidity.

    1. Re:Obviously given to the wrong employees by clarkkent09 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it depends on the content of the message rather than the means of sending it. If the message says "Get X done by the morning", or "Reply immediately" then it is, whether it is sent by blackberry or phone or whatever. But there are many messages a boss might send after hours (perhaps just because he is working late, and that includes sending emails) that don't require any action until the following day.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
  4. Re:no way by Joebert · · Score: 3, Funny
    I agree with the me time, but

    If they fire me I will tell the boss, "I was looking for a job when I found this one".

    That's kinda like telling someone you know Martial Arts after they've just broken your nose.

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  5. Let's not forget corporate laptops... by gillbates · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They've been issued for far longer than Blackberries and haven't spurned lawsuits so far.

    Basically, it's not a question of the technology: if you have hourly employees working unreported time, you're asking for trouble. The labor laws are fairly clear in this matter. Whether it's on a Blackberry, laptop, or otherwise is beside the point.

    But let's not forget that employers can simply reclassify their hourly employees as salaried and get as much unpaid overtime as they want. And that's perfectly legal, Blackberry or not. This question is more a matter of your employer's semantic classification of your job than whether or not you get paid for your overtime.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:Let's not forget corporate laptops... by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually you can't arbitrarily classify someone exempt. There are fairly strict (were much stricter before Bush) guidlines about who is, and who is not exempt. Basically your job had to either be managerial or tightly classified as a purely creative job with the ability to set your own schedule in order to be classified as exempt.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  6. Have you tried ... by mrroot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... setting personal boundaries and expectations with your employer and co-workers? Just because you have a Blackberry does not make you an indentured servant.

    On a side note, I had a previous employer offer me a Blackberry as an enticement to stay when I gave my notice to leave. Needless to say my decision remained the same.

    I own a Blackberry (my own, I'm self employed and also an ISV of a Blackberry app) and the biggest complaint I have about them is many companies hand them out as status symbols and not to the people who could really make good use of them.

    --
    I Heart Sorting Networks
    1. Re:Have you tried ... by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I own a Blackberry (my own, I'm self employed and also an ISV of a Blackberry app) and the biggest complaint I have about them is many companies hand them out as status symbols and not to the people who could really make good use of them.

      My biggest complaint is that people keep fiddling with them in meetings. When people call me over for help on something and then take a five minute personal call, I leave. "Where did you go?" Back somewhere productive. Bad enough when we're talking about going to someone's desk, it's absolutely infuriating when there's a big meeting and everyone is on the berries. New rule: your berry gets turned off and goes in the basket. Your people know the room you're in; if something important happens, you will be paged.

      Personally, I think it's incredibly rude to let a phone call interrupt a conversation. It's one thing if it's someone's boss calling, nothing can be done about that, same as if he pokes his head in the door. But anything less than that, ask if it's important, if not, call them back! Big pet peeve.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  7. Sure by iamacat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You have to pay for people to work. What a novel concept.

  8. I agree! by filesiteguy · · Score: 4, Funny

    I actually tell my employees specifically that - if they're not on call - they should not answer blackberries for work use when off.

    Now, I do think it provides some leeway - I have some employees who I allow somewhat flexible hours and for that they trade some amount of availiblity.

    Others, I just like to irritate by sending emails a 4:30AM. :P

    Oh, wait, my master is buzzing...

  9. Non-exempt is a great thing. by binaryspiral · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm currently a IT professional that is actually paid overtime for > 40 hours of work per week. Guess what - I don't have a blackberry.

    If I want to earn more money, the next pay grade is exempt and (shocking) includes a blackberry.

    It's like looking at crackpipe and trying to talk yourself into it. :\

  10. Re:Gotta agree with that. by dfm3 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And since I spend NO time after work sending any work emails ... someone out there is spending an awful lot of time to make up for my slacking.

    Yeah, I know that person. I work for them...

    Maybe there's a generational gap here, but as a 20-something just entering the working world, I've found it striking how those 20-30 years older than myself have come to see email as the Infallible Silver Bullet of instant office communication. Email isn't always reliable, or instant, or even secure, yet it's increasingly treated that way.

    For example, I receive one-liner emails from someone sitting at a computer in an office less than 30 feet from mine. Just walk over and ask your question, you know where I am. Well, okay, so I'm not always at the computer- in which case I'll get a followup email (or two) within 10 minutes asking why I haven't replied to the first message. We have numerous people who use email as an instant message service, shooting single sentence messages back and forth all day long. Our workstations even come with an IM client installed, and I've tried to instruct people to use it, but nobody does. They'd rather make a show out of spending at least an hour or two every day "doing email", as it's called around the office.

    I'm convinced that the use of Blackberries will only make the problem worse. Email is quickly becomming the text messaging of the workplace, something it was never designed nor intended for. God help me if the boss ever gets a Blackberry, and figures out how to use it...

  11. Who needs a Blackberry... by arthurpaliden · · Score: 5, Funny

    If it is really important thay will send the police.

  12. Blackberry != "the problem" by skelly33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is not the device - there's a lot of chatter in this thread about the pros and cons of such portable devices, but the core issue is employers who have no regard for employees' personal time and who routinely break wage and hour laws.

    Improper handling of "exempt" employee status is probably the most frequently screwed up HR liability in the corporate world because half of managers "heard somewhere" at one point that if you're on salary you're exempt. Wrong. The same people fabricated "flex time" which has no basis in law in the state of California (maybe in other places).

    The level of ignorance in upper management with regard to employees rights is mind-numbing.

  13. As an Exchange consultant... by SirKron · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have been telling my clients this for years. Wisconsin law clearly says that if a manager knowingly allows an hourly employee to do work at home then they must be compensated for their time. So, all my designs include the ability to and documentation on how to disable mobile access, remote email access, etc. for hourly and other non-exempt employees. If the employee saves all their email they can export all the email sent by them after hours, compile the data, and then prove a pattern of working in the evenings. If they were a 30 - hour employee they can sue for the remaining hours and benefits. This is a lot of risk for employers.

  14. Depends on the salary by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally...I'll never work for free ever again. Salaried pay is a rip-off.

    That depends entirely on the salary. In many cases you are quite correct but not always. Once you climb up towards management, hourly pay generally is no longer an option. Plus in some professions (ex. doctors or investment bankers) hourly pay is simply not going to be an option on the table. Fortunately the pay and bonuses (should) make up for it so long as you don't mind the hours. Whether the hours vs. pay trade-off is worth it is an exercise left for the reader.

  15. Re:Now is about the time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm with you on this. I left the company I used to work for partly because they abused the 40-hour, exempt-employee workweek. Sometimes, we would spend 14-16 hours on-site without breaks, and I simply got sick of working hours of 2 weeks and getting paid for one.

    Then I came back as a part-time W2 employee, only to be met with "Well, we have this approval process for overtime."

    Fine by me.

    The whole "exempt" employee thing is a sham -- I'm not sure how companies can legally declare non-managerial employees (such as myself) as EXEMPT; To me, it stinks of some loophole that is screaming to be closed.

  16. Re:Now is about the time... by iwein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Over 40 hours a week should not be 'expected', it should only be required for emergencies and last minute pushes on big deadlines

    Please understand that emergencies and last minute pushes on big deadlines are to be expected at all times. No overtime means no overtime. If you want to do a good job at leading a team, make it a rule without exceptions.

    As an employer, don't pay for overtime, don't ask for overtime and don't allow overtime. It will ruin quality and cost you more.

    I used to work at one of the big consulting firms and the following pattern was almost a rule:

    1. not finished, stay late
    2. come in late or unrested
    3. be less productive, deliver poor quality
    4. not finished after staying late

    If you see that pattern, stop it at once and follow these simple rules:

    1. everybody is on time each day
    2. no working after 6
    3. max 40 hours a week

    --
    Show a man some news, distract him for an hour. Show a man some mod points, distract him for the rest of his life.
  17. Boundaries by dark-nl · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From the article:

    Song recommends telling employers that you can't be reached after a certain time every night. Employees should tell their bosses that not being connected 24/7 will increase productivity when they're in the office, and explain "what's in it for your boss if you have quiet time," he said.

    If you make that argument, you have already lost. It means you have given your boss the authority to rearrange your life for greater productivity; you're just giving advice on the best way to do it. To establish boundaries, you should let them make the first move. Just don't respond to emails or calls outside of working hours. If they want you to be available for work during certain hours, they need to negotiate those hours and convince you -- preferably with arguments you can take to the bank.

  18. Lawyers trying to make a buck by ehaggis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the article, "Although experts said that they are not aware of any current lawsuits, they said it's inevitable."

    The lawyers are stirring the pot. Nothing else to see, move along. These are not the lawsuits you are looking for.

    --
    One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
  19. Re:Now is about the time... by CrazedSanity · · Score: 3, Informative
    That reminds me of a story that maybe some of you can relate to:

    Me and a few other developers worked on a huge project for my previous employer involving a rewrite of an old website. The old one had a terrible logging system (file-based), several very non-normalized databases that had many things that were very case-sensitive (I think there was a "membership" field for each user's record, wherein "Premium" gave them full access, but "premium" gave them nothing). There was a terrible conglomeration of systems to run the searches, such as one that ran a grep against a 3 gigabyte text file... The new project's goal was to convert it into a completely dynamic, database-driven, e-commerce system... needless to say, it was a pretty large endeavor.

    Anyway, me and the other main developer, we'll call him "Joe," worked 9-12 hour days working on this beast, trying to meet a 6 month full release deadline. We had an agreement with our employer that one of us was able to sleep in, provided someone was available for internal tech support in the morning. It worked pretty well until we got our wires crossed and we both slept in on the same day. We returned to work and got mauled by our employers, revocation of our afore-mentioned agreement, and subtle threats of firing.

    Now me and Joe were working long days with no ability to sleep in. We became increasingly less productive, with a higher level of bugs introduced into the system, and overshot our full release deadline by 3 months. Instead of doing a beta release as we recommended, they forced a full release... they realized almost immediately that the new system wasn't up to par, and our long days got even longer (by 2-6 hours, without any extra days off) as we fixed the new system, maintained the old system, and attempted to synchronize data between the two.

    The employer tried several "incentive" programs. Holding back profit sharing bonuses (the ones that would "always be there, guys") if we didn't make their absurdly short deadlines or insanely over-ambitious milestones. That didn't work, and even caused Joe to quit; he'd bought a house based on the idea that the profit sharing would always be there, and he nearly lost it when our bonuses were held for over 3 months... I tried to explain to employers that trying to make us meet such short deadlines would only encourage hastily-written, poorly tested code, to which he responded (something like): "No, you won't. Just write the code fast, but I won't let you cut corners to do it. Just meet the deadlines."

    --
    Sanity is like a condom: rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.