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How To Show Code Samples?
Todd writes "I've been looking around at 'help wanted' advertisements for programming jobs, and almost all of them demand that you not only have professional experience, but also that you show samples of your work. This got me wondering; with the work product, trade secret, and non-disclosure laws/agreements, how exactly can you show work that you've done in a professional capacity to a prospective employer without violating the privacy of the company for which the code was written? For instance, I can't say I've written many BASH scripts (at least, not large ones) for myself personally, but the assortment of such scripts written for my current job is wide and varied indeed. I can't very well just deliver these scripts, or even small portions thereof, to third parties to help demonstrate my scripting prowess. With that in mind, what am I supposed to show them?"
what am I supposed to show them?
Someone else's code
Thank God for evolution.
Like the other day, i was interviewing for a job and i said, "Well you know i did all the coding for Amazon.com right? but you see i can't show any of it to you because of the non-disclosure agreement"
For some reason i still haven't gotten a call back...
Just translate everything to brainfuck, and send that sourcecode. Problem solved.
(Some people claim that this brilliant---nay, genius---solution will just make things harder for you, but you can never tell until you try, right?)
I usually explain that various NDAs prevent me from disclosing code I've written of significance, and suggest that I be asked to complete a programming exercise.
Most employers have a set at the ready these days, and I usually respond with the 1 hour answer and the 1 day answer, the later showing an evolution of the former, with polish and usually a more generic solution.
In Liberty, Rene
Work on an open-source project, and use that code.
Table-ized A.I.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
i.e. for bash scripting:
give yourself some common tasks:
create scripts for them...
i.e. create a script to fetch updates and notify you via mail(or some other means) when they are downloaded and ready for installation.
create a script that analyzes log files(yes these things have all been done by many others and you can download them in tool-kits...but that's not the point)
create a script that updates other scripts dynamically based on what they find out...
"Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
You should have side projects.
The big win with side projects that are entirely under your control is that the code is entirely your style. Almost all of the code that you write for work will have some legacy or shortcut warts, but your self-made utility code can be entirely of your own style and principles. This can be good or bad.
If you don't have any code that you can show, ask your prospective employer to concoct a reasonable example.
If you don't have any code of your own to show them, that tells them something. If they can't come up with a reasonable task for you to demonstrate your abilities, that tells you something.
Use uber obfuscated code: Example: #define w "Hk~HdA=Jk|Jk~LSyL[{M[wMcxNksNss:" http://www0.us.ioccc.org/years.html
Generally, when looking for software engineers or system administrators, I try to find the people who enjoy what they do enough that they don't mind doing it when they get off of work. If you haven't written anything interesting outside of work, and you're completely uninterested in doing so, then this automatically drops you down a notch among those that I would hire.
Beyond that, though, you can't show prospective employers things that you've done for other companies unless you own the source code. On the other hand, the company you wrote it for absolutely cannot bar you from producing derivative works from memory. That would result in devaluating your skill set, which is considered an unconscionable harm by our courts. Write something similar but less ambitious at home and present that instead.
Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
Grab a couple computer science tests, some Knuth books, or ACM programming contest sheets.
Find a simple problem (one that'll take 10-30 minutes to code) and write it up nicely in a couple different languages. Use at least one OO language if you know one.
Discuss the projects you worked on, but tell them it was work for hire and stress that you respect the privacy of the other companies, but you brought other code samples for them to see.
I've been in that situation. My potential future employer asked to see some of my code. What I did was:
1) I directed them to some open-source code I'd written.
2) I told them that I could not show them the code I was working on at my current job, but I said they could ask my colleague about the quality of that code.
One good thing about 2) is that it also tells the future employer that you're not going to show *their* code around after you leave. Oh, and I got the job, although I chose to go to another company.
If you have been in the industry before and are looking to join a software company like M$ or others they will typically not ask for samples. If you get to the interview you will have to demonstrate in real time your skills.
It is a big red flag if a company asks for samples before hand. It usally indicates you are interviewing at non tech company or they have inferior managers whom can not weed out candidates well.
I used to ask applicants for 1000 lines of C++ they were proud of. Sometimes you get something really beautiful. Something that's at least decently designed and looks reliable is essential.
I've been known to send such samples back with "Your first buffer overflow is on line 42. Thank you for your interest." I couldn't afford to deal with sloppy coders in a hard real time environment.
I've shown some good code to people, and they start saying whats wrong with it without knowing what it's about. For instance, I interviewed with some small startup (some 5 dudes coding in a studio), and I showed them some heavy ajax code, and they said it would be too slow for a high traffic site. I told them it was an internal application with high functionality, and he proceeded to show me a simple html page with no javascript and told me "see this is high performance". I think its just deceit when the person interviewing you doesn't have a strong skill set and feels intimidated by a good candidate who will make him/her look bad.
would THEY like you to show work you did for them, later on, to OTHER employers?
Some company won't actually mind.
Not every single line of code a developper may write while working in a place is of utmost strategic importance and has to remain secret or otherwise the company will go bankrupt.
The developer should ask his/her supervisors for proper clearance to show some code that isn't a vital part for the company's survival on the market place. i.e.: Maybe you can't show the source code of the product the company is selling, but you can show the source code to tools you have developed to simplify your work.
In fact some places even authorize you to release such non-critical side project under open-source licenses.
Of course this is much easier when you work in a small company. If there are 10'000 developers in you company it's hard to check everyone's code for clearances.
...
Of course as other /.ers have said, the home projects are much better candidates to be shown in an interview.
Unless you work for a paranoid "sell your soul" companies which insist everything developer while under contract belongs, even home projects.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Oh yes, let me rush to burn up 4-8 hours of my time doing some contrived, over-specified programming exercise for each job application. I have a medium-sized stack of bug fixes and improvements to open-source projects I can point to, but that's not good enough for some companies: I have to do their extra-special lame example program, because I might not be uber enough to work at their uber-elite programming company.
Once upon a time I thought code samples might be a good idea, but now I'm starting to think that it makes a good lameness filter for my next job search. IMHO they just use up everybody's time for very little benefit; you'd almost be better off just hiring them at a low probationary pay rate and see how they actually perform in your work environment.
[b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
Show some confidence - don't wear a suit to the interview.
A good-quality shirt if you're a PC, a turtleneck if you're a mac, a T-shirt if you're linux, or a leather jacket if you're *bsd.
Slacks if you're a PC, black jeans if you're a mac or *bsd, blue jeans if you're linux.
Dress shoes if you're a PC, loafers if you're a mac, runners if you're linux, boots or sandals if you're *bsd.
No hat if you're a PC, a kepi if you're a mac, a ballcap if you're linux (a red one if you're Fedora/RHEL), and a shaved head if you're *bsd.
A briefcase if you're a PC, a leather portfolio if you're a mac, a softsider if you're linux, and a pull-behind carrying a 4u server if you're *bsd.
A crackberry if you're a PC, an iPhone if you're a mac, any flip-phone if you're linux, Chuck Norris if you're *bsd.
Your resume in Word if you're a PC, as a video clip if you're a mac, in openoffice if you're linux, and 7-bit clean ASCII if you're *bsd.
Hide your Zune if you're a PC, subtly show off your iPod if you're a mac, wow them with streamripper if you're linux, and run a script to make the sound of the drive heads seeking play "Take this job and shove it!" if you're *bsd.
A business card if you're a PC, a mini-dvd if you're a mac, a bootable distro dvd with customized splash screen, borwser, etc., if you're linux, your phone number and email address on the back of a beer coaster if you're *bsd.
Coca-cola if you're a PC, bottled water if you're a mac, real beer (not that 5% piss) if you're linux, shots if you're *bsd.
I did some smaller contract work on the cheap with the stipulation that I could use the code I wrote however I wanted. That's where most of my code samples come from. Smaller shops are often willing to compromise in ways bigger corps aren't, especially when it's possible for them to save money.
You could also just whip up a reasonably professional sample app and explain that your "real" code is locked up with your old employers. Companies worth working for, and recruiters worth talking to, will understand your situation. They probably have clauses in their standard employment contracts that restrict their employees in the same way, after all.
By the way, this is another good reason to contribute to Free Software.
Game... blouses.
I am corrected, Previously I responded that something was the dumbest post, but you win.
Really, do you think that you are so awesome that the crappy little code sample that you are showing me is going to blow my mind. Do you realize how unlikely it is that your sample code is even remotely related to the problem I am working on at that moment?
I want to see an example of what you have written in the past for a few reasons:
1. It shows me your style. Do you design before coding? this is usually evident by simple elegant solutions. An experienced programmer/engineer can tell alot from a small sample.
2. This is much more fair than me presenting you with some problem out of the blue. I am giving you as much time as you want to compose your solution. This is the audition part of the process.
3. I will be asking you questions about this example code to determine that it was in fact you who designed/wrote it, and to understand the thought process that you followed. This has 2 purposes.
a. I figure out if you are trying to bs me.
b. You get a chance to see what the caliber of your peers will be based upon the quality of my questions ( and I am working on the spot, without a net).
Interviewing should not be considered combat. I want to like you, and I want to hire you. I am asking 4-8 of my staff to take an hour out of their day to talk with you and see if you will be an asset to our organization.
A great interview is a conversation, not an interrogation. We both have something that the other wants and we are conversing to see if we are a mutual fit.
interview.
A good-quality shirt if you're a PC, a turtleneck if you're a mac, a T-shirt if you're linux, or a leather jacket if you're *bsd.
You left out a hemp safari shirt.
Slacks if you're a PC, black jeans if you're a mac or *bsd, blue jeans if you're linux.
Cargo shorts.
No hat if you're a PC, a kepi if you're a mac, a ballcap if you're linux (a red one if you're Fedora/RHEL), and a shaved head if you're *bsd.
Beret.
A briefcase if you're a PC, a leather portfolio if you're a mac, a softsider if you're linux, and a pull-behind carrying a 4u server if you're *bsd.
A backpack.
Coca-cola if you're a PC, bottled water if you're a mac, real beer (not that 5% piss) if you're linux, shots if you're *bsd.
Camelback of fruit juice and bottle of homebrew.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Go to OSCON this year, attend the sessions with Larry Wall, Guido van Rossum, Damien Conway, etc. Write down the code samples and then take those to the interview.
-- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
On behalf of the people that are the ones asking for code samples, your response answers 50% of what the employer is looking for.
We're not necesarily looking for someone with tons of open source experience, or who does lots of other work at home.
But for the sort of positions where you DO ask for sample code, you are intentionally looking for people who ARE programmers, not that just DO programming.
For high level positions, I generally ask for 5,000 lines.
The really top notch people are going to have SOMETHING they can provide. This could be work on an open source project, or some insane project they only do at home, or even some shareware tool they make some money off on the side.
But there's generally something.
If you don't have the code, then the question is no longer one about assesing your programming skills, it's now about assessing your personality and profressionalism. Will you make excuses? Will you write something just for the request? Will you offer to program something?
I've even had one guy who came to us from a bank that responded, "I can't show you the code, but I could give you the header files and documentation?" (he was hired)
Since you obviously don't have the code, bear this mind.
In India (at least until recently) it's fairly easy to hire people cheaply that can't afford or doesn't use a computer at home, for whom programming is something they were only trained for an just do at Their Job.
If someone is asking for code samples, at that point they DON'T want people of that calibre. They want GOOD people that they can give responsibility to and trust the decisions of safely.
Your job is to demonstrate that.
Chaff is the husk around a grass seed. Wheat is what's separated from chaff, not weed. The chaff is the bad part.
There are thousands of useful coding projnects over at Sourceforge: pick one or two that relate to tools you use, and help update or debug them. Post patches, and you'll have it online there as a matter of public record. If you management doesn't want you to publish such tools, gently steer them to the details of GPL licenses: GPL code is particularly good for this. Perl modules are particularly good for this, published over at CPAN.
At my last job interview, I was able to point to 3 products that they used that I'd contributed to at least 5 years previously, and one product they were contemplating using that I pointed them to bug fixes I'd published.
I absolutely concur. I'll usually be blunt and indicate that I'm interested in the solution methodology and not the specific answer, and I'll probably send the candidate down a dead-end road to see how he reacts.
... I probably can't teach you how to be less of an asshat. A bad attitude is destructive, no matter what degree of "leet skills" you think you have. Unless you're being harassed or threatened, walking out of an interview is a mistake.
During an interview a couple of years ago, the candidate was stunned when I said that I didn't have an answer to the problem, and that we'd solve it together. So I explained, "Son, life doesn't come with a User Manual, Reference Guide, or more importantly, an Answer Key in the back." I think he completely missed the point, and unsurprisingly, had little in the way of problem solving skills. Reminds me of a line in Men in Black - "Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training."
When I came out of college, I went on a particularly brutal interview. One section involved critical timing paths (I'm an EE,) and the interviewer tossed a simple schematic on the whiteboard. I looked at it for about 5 seconds, and told him what it did. He paused and asked, "Are you sure?" His tone clearly indicated that I was incorrect. I looked again, and stood my ground. I further pointed out that he had a potential setup/hold timing violation depending on what parts he was using. I spent over an hour with this guy, and he asked some seriously challenging questions. I found out after the fact that he was notorious for chewing-up and spitting-out candidates, and that his interviews rarely lasted more than 20 minutes (he was effectively the CTO, so time mattered.)
The lesson here is that a proper interview is geared toward making sure you have both technical chops and people skills that are compatible with the company. I can teach you new tech stuff