Slashdot Mirror
Smart Parking Spaces In San Francisco
2centplain sends along a report in the NYTimes on San Francisco's smart parking initiative. He asks, "Any guesses on the when this will be hacked? Like, 'reserving' an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there, or, perhaps using the wireless mesh network for some other purpose?" Quoting: "This fall, San Francisco will test 6,000 of its 24,000 metered parking spaces in the nation's most ambitious trial of a wireless sensor network that will announce which of the spaces are free at any moment. Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones. They may even be able to pay for parking by cellphone, and add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car."
They know how to find free space.
hilarious
Seems like a huge investment in a technology that probably only has five to ten years of life left in it...
Having spent many hours driving around SF. I didn't think there were ANY parking spaces, smart or otherwise.
And here I was thinking that parking lots were starting to mark out half-size spaces for Swatch Smart cars.
This scheme will lead to road rage on an unprecedented scale. Every time a spot becomes free there'll be a dozen people making a mad dash for it.
No sig today...
Paying by phone has been a standard procedure in Budapest, Hungary for the last 4 years. Just send an SMS and there you go, another hour or so, depending on your SMS. Each parking district has its separate phone number, so there's no need for fancy high tech equipment, just a few billboards.
I would like to know more about the kinds of technology they are using. There are tons of interesting issues like the communication technology, security, energy supply, ...
Unfortunately, the article does not provide many details so I looked for the web page of the company: http://streetlinenetworks.com/ - However, there isn't much more information to be found there either...
Anyway, it will be exciting to see a real-world wireless sensor network operating on such a large scale!
Japan has something similar to this, albeit with parking lots rather than metered curb spaces, which don't exist to my knowledge. When you enter a dense commercial district, overhead LED signs show a map of the neighbourhood with parking areas colour-coded according to whether there are vacancies or not.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
âoeIf the San Francisco experiment works, no one will have to murder anyone over a parking space,â said Donald Shoup, a professor of urban planning at the University of California, Los Angeles, whose work on the pricing of parking spaces and whether more spaces are good for cities has led to a revolution in ideas about relieving congestion." - from TOA
Wow... because you know, we all _have_ to murder people for a parking space now.
That having been said, I've seen the start of something like this in an airport (Portland, IIRC). Parking spots have a light over then that shows green when they are empty and red when they aren't. Very handy to look down an entire row and know it's all full. In this one, you might be able to check for parking in the area when you get close and get over there, all on your phone. An interesting side effect of this is that the parking authority would be able to determine rates of fill and determine if they need to build a parking garage in the area.
I'm sure it can be hacked. I'm also sure there are meter maids who can probably have an automated system to check that stuff, like one that says it's full when they go by and it's clearly not. A quick push of a button and it gets communicated back to parking central authority to fix it. Bear in mind, most folks are not hacking folks, so it's really going to be a small subset that ever need this treatment.
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
While it sounds cool and all, I don't understand how this is going to solve anything. If people are circling the blocks searching for parking, it's because there are no spots, not because they can't find them. This system doesn't create more parking spaces, it just fuels a feeding frenzy. Right now, if a spot opens up, the only people that know about it are the drivers on that particular street. With this new system, the spot will announce itself to dozens of vehicles in all the surrounding blocks, and there will be a mad dash to get to that spot. It will create traffic congestion. What they need is to tear down a few optimally placed buildings, and put in some multi-storey parking garages.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
So let me get mind around this, California bans cellphones while behind the wheel but will possibly tie this to cellphones or even a confusing screen on your dashboard?
When will the madness end?
God: When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Here's an NPR story from April 23, 2008 on this topic.
The tickets they dole out will pay for the new parking system. It's a win-win situation!
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
I strongly disagree. Public transportation in the US sucks because it doesn't go where you want to go, when you want to go. It works well for a very limited subset of the population that lives in high-density metro areas; it's useless for any task that leaves these areas.
Now before you complain that I'm an apologist, lemme cite some facts. I took a flight from Washington National airport not too long ago. My plan was to take the bus to the Metro train, which would drop me at the airport. Decent plan, right? After a mile walk to the nearest bus stop, I stood there for 45+ minutes waiting for the bus, which didn't show up. At that point, I had burned my "extra" time budget and was in danger of missing my flight. I jogged home, got in my car, and drove to the airport. I passed the bus some 60 minutes after it was scheduled to make a stop. Why didn't I drive to the Metro and continue from there? Because it was a weekend, and the trains run on a 12-minute schedule. With the bus-delay, I was in danger of missing the plane if I missed the Metro by the perfect amount.
Similarly, I *can* take public transportation to work, but I did the calculations, and the one-way time varies from 3 to 4 hours. That's for a 26-mile commute distance. Public transportation is coordinated at the local level here, so it's a horrible PiTA to switch across five different transport methods to get somewhere - bus, train, bus, different bus, etc. Schedules between municipalities are completely uncoordinated, so it takes maximum time to go anywhere. If you don't value your time, it's a wonderful way to burn through it.
What's that? I should move closer to work? Unfortunately, my office is located in an industrial business park. There isn't a residential area within 5 miles. Further, even if I could make that work, I'd be a huge distance from everything else. The US isn't laid-out for a public transportation infrastructure. It's been pasted on as an afterthought, and it sucks. We'd need to make some horrific changes to install a useful transport network, and I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime.
The worst thing they could do is replace the many standard parking meters with just a few kiosks or with square posted meters that are incompatible with bike locks. Then we would have no place to lock up our bikes. It's hard to get the city to come out and install bike parking (plus there are never enough racks) and the privately installed racks are usually useless (they buy racks designed by people who don't ride bikes and/or install them too close to a wall.)
1. Add reservation option. Mark the spot as yours before you get there.
Drive calmly to the spot, as central server knows how far you are from the spot and it won't start charging you for the time it takes you to get there driving at the allowed speed.
2. Add red LEDs to the parking spot markers. Have them light up when the space is reserved. Have them turned off by sending a code from your mobile.
3. Add option to report people taking your reserved spot. Have tow-trucks ready and waiting.
Also have option to charge them for "stealing" your reserved parking spot, since you have already paid for it.
4. Profit!
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Paying with a cell phone? Hell, we can pay by text here... in Winnipeg of all places.
Many US, Canadian and UK cities are served by Verrus for paying parking in certain parking lots (even on street in some places, but not here) with a cell phone by dialling a number and having an account with them, easily setup online. Here in Winnipeg they also offer pay by text. The only other place they offer that is in the UK. I pay by phone Mon-Fri for parking downtown, and it's super convenient. Saves hauling around $5 in change and having to stop at the ticket machine on the way into the lot.
Within the last couple years, the City of Winnipeg instituted a set of brand new parking machines, eliminating most if not all old on-pole parking meters. You can pay by credit card, coins, and as of at least May, by phone. You can even pay your fine online.
What we DON'T have is the wireless signs that show number of spots free. In San Francisco, with a metro population of 7 some million, compared to Winnipeg's paltry 694,000, and a population density more than 4.5 times higher than Winnipeg, finding a space is likely a lot harder. We usually just need to drive around the block to find some, never mind the fact that the number of surface parking lots here is very high.
add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car.
this is REALLY missing the point of "max 2 hours" limits on meters. they were never meant to be a replacement for all-day parking in a garage. they were meant to be a way to keep commuters and all-day tourists from hogging up a spot all day, keeping locals and casual shoppers (and those visiting municipal facilities or medical offices) from having convenient access.
by allowing someone to just casually "push a button" from where they are and hold the spot another two hours, they effectively have created a new commuter spot and while its nice that the city gets the money, it makes things worse for the locals who actually need access for only an hour or two.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
SF does have underground car parks built as part of large office blocks. But the problem is where there is a mix of residential and business parking. They parking spaces may be free for residents between 6.00pm and 8.00am, but used for business during week days. It isn't practical to demolish a block of residential housing just to build a new car park.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
i think you also forget to factor in the fact that "transportation" decisions were taken at times when public transport was seen as a filthy communist ideology as opposed to the intrinsic individualist freedom loving automobile.
There are people in the US who routinely drive 50 miles plus each way to their office...
you made the decision for a variety of reasons(nice safe suburbs, better schools, etc.) stop bleating when your chickens come home to roost.
Get out of your cars, or accept that they are part of a luxury lifestyle and earn more money to pay for it.
Any guesses on the when this will be hacked?
Why do you have to ask this yourself? Can't you live together, respecting eachother and use this cool new tech to live better? As a hacker myself I can understand that the first thing you would like to do is take it apart and understand exactly how it works to make it work in ways it's not supposed to, but "reserving an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there" instead of respectfully reserve it the legal, correct and respectful way is just wrong.
In an ideal place, where people respect eachother that would not be necessary. Maybe SF is not an "ideal place", I don't know, never been there, but you could try to make it become one by not hacking cool stuff like this, and use it the proper way instead.
I just don't trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die.
"Traffic and roadworks" shows planned roadworks, and presumably accidents (none, currently)
Good thing, too; if they were showing planned accidents on it I'd be worried.