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Japanese Scientists Develop Long-Life Flash Memory

schliz writes "Flash memory chips with a potential lifetime of hundreds of years have been developed by Japanese scientists. The new chips also work at lower voltages than conventional chips, according to the scientists from the University of Tokyo. They are said to be scaleable down to at least 10 nm; current Flash chips wouldn't be usable below 20 nm."

13 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. What is the point? by damburger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Given that we tend to dump flash memory whenever a larger and more compact one comes along, and transfer our data, what use is there for a flash chip that will keep data for 100 years but be obsolete in 2?

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    1. Re:What is the point? by jacquesm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it's to facilitate the new profession of 'data archaeologist'. People that will be sifting through the digital detritus of the pre-AI era two hundred years from now.

      Looking for the rosetta's stone that will enable them to translate 'flash' into 'realmedia' ;)

    2. Re:What is the point? by MyLongNickName · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I would hardly call 100 years archival. In some exceptional cases its within the memory span of a single human individual.

      Ummmm. Yea. I am going to have granny memorize my last ten years of photos, movies and financial records.

      Fact is, I have struggled with a good method for backing up all of this. I've basically settled on mirroring with a remote FTP site. It works, but with my horrible upload speed, initial synchronization took 48 hours plus. Quarterly updates take a couple hours. And the other pain in the butt is I have to encrypt my financial info as I don't trust it being in the hands of a third party.

      Now if I had a medium that were 99% successful at retaining info for 20 years, I would backup to two manufacturer's media, and stick it in my safety deposit box.

      I don't have that degree of confidence in any low cost storage media yet.

      So for archival, yes, this is a wonderful advance.

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    3. Re:What is the point? by jimicus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Archival. Once it's archived you can forget about it. For example, your local library doesn't convert all that old microfilm just because it can. It would only do it to put it onto a more stable storage medium.

      At least until the technology changes so much that you can no longer buy anything that will read it, cf. the BBC's Doomsday project:

      http://www.iconbar.com/forums/viewthread.php?newsid=937

    4. Re:What is the point? by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm assuming you are under 30 and haven't lost a grandparent. Now that I have lost a few family members, I wish I had more photos, more memories to look through. Perhaps it is a case of you don't miss something till it is gone.

      I will pull up the digital photo album of old vacations, and my kids love to remember what we did. At some point, my kids will become uninterested as I did when I was younger. But as some point, I know they will enjoy revisiting them.

      I sure as hell don't want that to not be possible because my hard drive crashed.

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    5. Re:What is the point? by jim.hansson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i have heard stories from universities that they sometimes get help requests from people that have data stored on mediastypes that nobody has readers for anymore, and after a little hunt in basements and other places they find the hardware, then there is the problem of software. There is already companies specializing in this sort of things

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    6. Re:What is the point? by Free+the+Cowards · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It doesn't matter what you write, because the logical sectors are not linked to the physical sectors on any reasonable flash drive. The controller circuitry holds a mapping which it adjusts as time goes by to evenly use the entire device no matter what your write patterns are.

      As for "not much cheaper", this must be a new meaning of "not much" that I was previously unaware of. Taking a quick sample on newegg.com, I find an 8GB flash drive for $32, and 8GB of RAM going for around five to six times that. The flash drive, in addition to being vastly cheaper, is also much smaller and consumes much less power.

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    7. Re:What is the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I guarantee you that the $32 8GB flash drive is not what you call 'reasonable'. Flash drives which actually do distribute wear across the whole drive no matter what your write pattern is are considerably more expensive. As a general rule, if it's a cheap USB flash key, it's built using MLC flash chips (only about 10K erase/write cycles per erase block), is slow (MLC is slow), and implements a fancy form of defect remapping rather than real wear leveling.

      The problem a lot of people have is that they hear about the concept of wear leveling and then assume it's cheap and easy to implement properly, since it sounds so simple. It's not. Try thinking about how you actually have to do it sometime. For example, how do you store the table or list which maps logical sectors to physical sectors? That alone is a very thorny problem, because if you store it in some of the physical sectors, you have to make the table itself subject to the wear-leveling algorithm, as the table is going to be the most frequently-written data of all. So you end up needing to store the table (and probably user data too) using some kind of log-structured file system. Now you have to chase pointers just to figure out where user data is located, and as high-density flash is not quite as random-access as people sometimes think it is (it's very oriented towards reading/writing large blocks rather than random access to individual bytes), you'd better have a controller with a lot of RAM so you can cache large chunks of the table; otherwise performance goes in the toilet.

      TLDR version: true wear-leveling flash disk controllers tend to need lots of RAM and/or a second nonvolatile solid state memory with better lifespan than the main flash array. These things are expensive and therefore not found in most flash drives other than the SSDs built to the same form factor as hard disks.

  2. Umm .. MRAM anybody? by djtachyon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just received some samples of military grade MRAM recently. 4MB, "infinite" writes, "infinite" lifetime, -55C - 125C operating range, lower power than DRAM, and 35ns cycle times.

    Fairchild has been making MRAM for awhile now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAM

    --
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  3. Re:Read / write cycles by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of course, if wear leveling was performed perfectly, then pretty much the entire array would fail at once, right?

    I have 4 wheels bearings on my Chrysler, and even though all of my wheels rotate with a perfect synchronism, only one of my bearings fails at a time, and the other ones don't follow ther brother in the next few miles...

    Remember that at this scale, only an atom of difference could make some of those individual bits fail a year before the other...

  4. Re:The key might last 100 years... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Libraries are in the business of keeping old tech. I'm sure given a large enough library with the budget to gather and maintain all of our current tech we'd be quite able to access it in 100 years. That doesn't mean people other than librarians and scientists doing archival studies would want to look at it, though. Look at microfilm, which is the current standard for archival of old papery things. Its rate of use is extremely low except for a few college students and researchers. I think most technology is eventually 'forgotten' like this as the technical knowhow to use it falls out of public consciousness to make room for the next new development.

    I expect in another 100 years we'll have direct-from-brain transfer of information to and from our implanted minicomputers, which would be connected to an internet-like system so mind-bogglingly huge it contained all the libraries' data already. Who would bother with the slow loading times of a usb key in a clunky old computer? Unless of course, our implants came with the appropriate ports!

  5. No future for digital archives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    In the digital computer age, 100 years is more than enough for "archival", heck we haven't even had digital storage (in practice) half that long. Like any library or archive, maintainance is the key, and to maintain a digital archive it's not more than reasonable to move contents to newer media when it becomes more practical to do so.

    Storage space has followed Moore's law rather well, and if you use a building to physically store storage digital content today, in a hundred years you would need a wrist-watch to store the same amount. Hence, it would make no sense but to move the data.

    Also, the demands for how easy it should be for us citizens (if we're speaking of public records) to access the data, it would make absolutely no sense to keep the data on a medium we will consider obsolete in a decade or two. However, with the current flash discs, for how long can you safely store data? A year, 5 years? An entire decade?

    100 years of more or less "guaranteed" life is far enough to be comfortable storing archive materials.

    However, I can't but help to think about the reasons for "archives" of digital content. Ten years ago people started to have the capacity to store an entire library of books on their computer. Today we can store all the worlds books on our computers. In 5-10 years it will be practically possible to quickly download them over the internet (legally or illegally). In 20 years we will be able to walk around with all the worlds books in our pocket computers (todays cell phones / PDA's). In 30 years we'll have the possibility to store all the worlds books on our wrist-watch. In 40-50 years maybe all the photos and movies we can possible get our hands on, on each of ours wrist-watches.

    Again, I can't help but to question the reason for digital archives, when we'll in a not-too-distant future will have billions of people walking around with all books (and knowledge?) in the world in the pockets, literally.
    However, with the constant decline in education amongst the youths, what's the chance people will be able to read any of these books in 40 years anyway?

    One wonders for what good today's technical development is meant.

    We'll probably be happier and happier, while being dumber and dumber, more and more brain washed with propaganda, all tied up and connected to an enormous corporate enterprise grid with our Level 3 RFID's, being satisfied in life as long as we can try to get the Level-9-shield-of-bogus or be swallowed up in another entertainment puddle of mud, and perhaps not even need seeing people in real life, but only through our digital and pathetic image of ourselves not understanding that we aren't just slaves to trends but slaves to what we have created.

    Will a /. article cover these questions?

    These are the questions...

  6. What's the "Stick it in a Drawer" lifespan? by RailRide · · Score: 2, Interesting
    All I've heard so far is debate on how long flash RAM will last while being constantly thrashed with read/write cycles. But what I'd like to know is how long data can be expected to remain intact on a typical flash drive that you just throw a bunch of files on and subsequently stick in a drawer and forget about, or at very least infrequently read from.

    I keep a lot of files (mostly art projects) backed up on 2 or 3 seperate hard drives, but while any current project is progress, they tend to reside on a flash drive. Oh, they get rewritten to a couple of dozen times between scanning and completion, but once complete (and backed up) I tend to just leave the project folder on the drive, and when the drive gets close to filling up, I stick it in a drawer and buy another one. Should I expect to be able to call those "retired" drives backups as well, or will the integrity of the data likely deteriorate after a few years like a late model 3.5" floppy

    ---PCJ