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Rockets To Race Over Wisconsin Skies

Posted by timothy on from the nitro-burnin'-funny-ships dept.

Iron Condor writes with a reminder that that the first race of the Rocket Racing League (last mentioned here in April, after its 2005 founding) is set to take place later this month at Oshkosh AirVenture 08. This race, says Iron Condor, "is exactly what it sounds like: NASCAR 1000m above ground in rocket-propelled airplanes. Created by X-prize founder/CEO Peter Diamandis, this is 'the next evolution of racing' (at least according to the promo video, which is definitely worth watching)..."

52 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Doh! by genner · · Score: 5, Funny

    I just moved from Wisconsin. Who knew there was a reason to stay,

    1. Re:Doh! by everphilski · · Score: 2, Funny

      The cheese man. It is all the reason you need.

    2. Re:Doh! by XiX36 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Amen to that, fresh cheese kicks ass! Now if only we can figure out a way to strap a rocket to a giant wheel of cheese. . .

      --
      Insert witty sig here.
    3. Re:Doh! by nharmon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Vermont cheddar has everything from Wisconsin beat.

      (I'm from Michigan)

    4. Re:Doh! by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Cheese and racing? All you need to attract Space Rats:

      Avon: Bring that thing into close-up.
      [Shots of the space chopper, getting larger and larger.]
      Avon: Closer. Concentrate on the pilot. I want a close-up of his helmet.
      [Shot of helmet revealing red silhouette of a rat.]
      Vila: It's a Space Rat!
      Soolin: Friends of yours?
      Vila: Friends? Space Rats? There's no such thing as a friend of a Space Rat -- they even hate each other.
      Tarrant: What else do you know about them?
      Vila: They're maniacs, psychopaths! All they live for is sex and violence, booze and speed. And the fellows are just as bad. We had a couple in the penal colony once. They were always trying to frighten me.
      Dayna: [Laughing] And they never succeeded, of course. What were they imprisoned for?
      Vila: Breaking into transport museums. When the Federation banned all leisure transport, they went in for stealing anything on wheels or could fly. They were speed crazy, and I do mean crazy.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    5. Re:Doh! by codepunk · · Score: 2, Funny

      Whimp, how the hell can a guy get any ice fishing done when it is above freezing.

      --


      Got Code?
    6. Re:Doh! by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Speaking as a European, I have, and really no offence, found US cheese to range from bland for the better stuff, to disgusting for the most mass-market ranges. And the thing you call processed cheese is beyond description all together. I'm sorry, I really am - the people of the USA have contributed to culture and science in many, many ways - but your cheese is the foulest thing that anyone has ever had the gaul to pass off as food. I tried pretty much all of it until I found somewhere that imported proper English cheddar which I bought with great relief.

      I guess it's just one of those things.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    7. Re:Doh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      your cheese is the foulest thing that anyone has ever had the gaul to pass off as food.

      You obviously haven't tried our beer.

    8. Re:Doh! by larkost · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most of the general cheeses are pretty bland stuff. However, you should go into a grocey store in Wisconsin and look in the "specialty cheeses" section, and you will find a wide selection of cheeses that routinely win international competitions.

      That being said, they still tend to cede the whole area of "stinky cheeses" to the french.

      And I have lived in Europe and Wisconsin and enjoy (and pay for) good cheese. I am living in California now, and miss the cheese.

    9. Re:Doh! by Fozzyuw · · Score: 2, Informative

      Speaking as a European, I have, and really no offence, found US cheese to range from bland for the better stuff, to disgusting for the most mass-market ranges.

      Speaking as a life-long Wisconsinite who's marrying a French woman, and has lived near London (Twickenham) for a while and spent more time in/around Paris than I care for, you opinion is actually fairly valid. Wisconsin is know for it's cheese in the U.S., but that pretty much covers cheddar. Sure there's emmental (aka swiss), mozorella, Blue and parmesan but it's really not much variety at all.

      I'm exaggerating a little bit and there are some quite good stuff out there, but it's also not cheese you're going to normally buy and enjoy with a dinner because it's 10-year aged cheddar or some other awful expensive stuff.

      As it were, I learned that it's due to the Federal law against non-pasteurized cheeses. Apparently it's illegal to sell the stuff, according to some other French people my fiancee has befriended who own a cheese shop in the Green Bay area.

      Yup, even that "import" stuff like Brie is all pasteurized. The goat cheese (which only seems to be one kind of variety with mixed in herbs or spices) is pitiful at best.

      England and France have a much larger assortment of cheese thanks to not having this law. Of course, the only difference is that the English love to eat their cheese on crackers (at the butt of many jokes in France) while the French refuse to eat it with anything other than a baguette.

      So, while the French discovered Wisconsin (probably where our cheese history started, and was once spelled Oisconsin, as in "Oi", French for 'yes'), it seems the British had gave us the cracker. =P That's if you still have room left from all the beer and brats the Germans gave us!

      And if you haven't tried, New Glarus and Capitol Brewer beer is some pretty great micro-brews. Don't be fooled by the recent popularity of Stella Atois, in the US. It's just the "bud" of Europe. Cheapest stuff I could get at any disco in the UK. Not to mention the parent company recently buying out Budweiser.

      opps. On topic... I came here wondering what could put WI in the /. news, I should have figured it was either the Oshkosh EAA or Road America.

      --
      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
    10. Re:Doh! by Aloisius · · Score: 3, Informative

      I like Humboldt Fog, Old Chatham Camembert, Vermont Shepherd, Pleasant Ridge Reserve and Roth's Private Reserve is also nice.

      Fiscalini Bandaged Wrapped Cheddar from Modesto beat out all the English cheddars in London last year (first time Wyke Farms Trophy has ever been awarded to a non-English cheddar).

      Flagship Reserve is a nice cheddar made up in Seattle.

      Have you been to a good cheese shop? This country makes a lot of bad cheese, but there are some fine cheeses if you know where to look.

    11. Re:Doh! by shawb · · Score: 2, Funny

      What kind of Wisconsinite are you? We all know the cold winter is when you have to turn to the hard stuff... beer and sausage. And nothing in the world beats Wisconsin summer... both weeks of it.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  2. Oh yeah!!! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Funny

    Rednecks racing rocket's 'round a ringed raceway! Radically refreshing!

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Oh yeah!!! by andrewd18 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey now, we're not rednecks. We're Cheeseheads. Get it right.

    2. Re:Oh yeah!!! by SBacks · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wisconsin is not full of rednecks, its way to far north. Its full of cheeseheads, a subgroup of hicks.

      (Just for the record, I grew up 20 miles south of the WI border)

    3. Re:Oh yeah!!! by snowgirl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Anyhow, they said it was just like NASCAR, so I figured the spectators would be rednecks.

      Yeah, when I saw "like NASCAR 1000m in the air", I was all, "oh great... ANOTHER NASCAR."

      Seriously, anyone who watches real racecar driving on circuits internationally just shivers when you suggest "NASCAR", because it's boring to watch. "Go fast, turn left," I've heard it described as. And then, Indy and Champcar spun off of F1, to go around in ovals...

      I remember playing a Indy race car simulator game back on the Apple ][e (yeah, old school racing sim!) and now I'm surprised looking back on it... the tires on the right-side are larger than the ones on the left... why? To help you turn left better... because SURPRISE! They're only going left!

      Compared to GT racing, F1 racing, and hell, even freaking Autocross ("put up cones; instant track! can I drive my civic?") are way cooler and more interesting to watch than a bunch of dumb americans chasing their tail all day long.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    4. Re:Oh yeah!!! by RabidMoose · · Score: 2, Funny

      Cheeky cheesheads captaining charring chariots competing for CEO's contentment. There you go.

    5. Re:Oh yeah!!! by Sun+Chi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you are a brave brave man to post without the anonymous box checked.

      Or a woman.

      by snowgirl (978879)

      p.s. NASCAR is stupid and boring.

    6. Re:Oh yeah!!! by hansamurai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, this is Slashdot, not Earnhardt country. And NASCAR does suck. There are much better racing variants available even in the US.

      --
      Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
    7. Re:Oh yeah!!! by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      My preferred provocation is to scream "TURN RIGHT, TURN RIGHT" at the TV.

      I would agree that the previous poster is certainly trying to stir the pot. I mean, I'm pretty sure that most of the drivers who aren't dumb Americans are just dumb Europeans.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    8. Re:Oh yeah!!! by dotancohen · · Score: 3, Funny

      Brave man? That comment was posted by "snowgirl".

      On teh intertubes the women are men, and the girls are FBI agents.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    9. Re:Oh yeah!!! by FiloEleven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll take the bait. I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but my roommate is. "How can an otherwise intelligent young man get so much enjoyment out of such a crappy sport?" is what I asked myself. Part of it was certainly his upbringing - his dad was a huge fan. But you know what? Under the surface, it's actually pretty interesting.

      The issue is that it's kind of like golf, only the people who tend to watch it are larger, rowdier and smellier. Golf is pretty boring to watch, too, unless you have an eye for the subtleties of a good shot or an appreciation for the difficulty of a particular putt.

      If you're watching mostly the track and seeing the cars go 'round to the left, you're going to be bored as hell. If you focus on an individual driver, and watch how he catches a draft off of a passing rival, and you understand that drafting will make both cars go faster (though the guy in front is at full throttle and the guy in back only half), the dynamics of the race become more interesting. In fact, I find the most entertaining part of the race to be how drivers play with the airstream (well, except for the crashes, of course).

      I'm not a fan of Nascar by any stretch of the imagination and will never go out of my way to catch a race. If people are watching one where I am, though, I don't have to play the elitist asshole anymore because I understand that the game has some merits.

      I agree that F1 is more interesting. Autocross not so much. And don't even get me started on drag racing.

      --
      Your brain is not a computer.
    10. Re:Oh yeah!!! by slashtivus · · Score: 2, Informative

      FIB refers to F** Illinois Bitch or F** Illinois Bastard. It comes from seeing 80% Illinois automobile license plates up in the North Woods of Wisconsin in the middle of summer and them buying up all the property. (Sorry if that was meant to be funny and my sarchasm-meter is broken today.)

  3. this reminds me of something... by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Now *that's* what I call *pod-racing*!"

    Now all we need is some Sand People to shoot at the racers, and we're all set!

    1. Re:this reminds me of something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Now *that's* what I call *pod-racing*!"

      Now all we need is some Sand People to shoot at the racers, and we're all set!

      Fine, we'll hold it in Iraq next year.

    2. Re:this reminds me of something... by Darth_brooks · · Score: 5, Funny

      Now all we need is some Sand People to shoot at the racers, and we're all set!

      So you're saying they need a tribe of people with language of unintelligible guttural noises that are both heavily armed and perpetually dressed in baggy, concealing clothing? Sounds like Wisconsin to me.

      --
      There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
  4. X-Prize? by Dripdry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can see where if this sort of thing really took off, the X-Prize interests would dovetail perfectly. If private racing could eventually hold races in low earth orbit, beating governments to the technology, the interest and funding for space could really take off. It's just another way to skin the cat, making money while advancing reasonable interests.

    --
    -
    1. Re:X-Prize? by chaim79 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would be very different (and even more interesting) then what they are doing, right now it's just rocket powered aircraft, to race in LEO you'd have to have some powerful maneuvering jets and a strong control system, and a pilot who can think maneuvering in an airless environment where it's all changing momentum vs changing wind deflection and lift properties.

      --
      DEMETRIUS: Villain, what hast thou done?
      AARON: Villain, I have done thy mother.
      Shakespeare invents 'your mom'
  5. Wow. by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Amazing how they can make giant glowing polygons float in the sky for the planes to fly through.

    --
    http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
  6. Finally. . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    a video I can watch because it's not Flash.

    That said, these don't look like rockets but are simply jets. Still interesting but not true rocket racing.

    If they really wanted to make it interesting, they should have the competitors fly through the canyon they show in the video.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Finally. . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Informative

      To use the Answers.com definition of a rocket, which is pretty much what I think of when I hear the word rocket:

      A reaction engine that contains all the substances necessary for its operation and is not dependent on substances such as atmospheric oxygen, drawn from the surrounding medium, and thus is capable of operating in outer space. Also called rocket motor.

      If the engines of these vehicles are drawing in air from their surroundings, they're not using rockets, they're using jet engines.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    2. Re:Finally. . . by MoonBuggy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I know what defines a rocket, and I didn't see any noticeable air intakes on the planes in the pictures, that's why I asked.

      Having looked a little closer it seems that they're burning kerosene and carrying liquid oxygen as an oxidiser, so they really are rockets, not jets.

    3. Re:Finally. . . by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Funny

      That said, these don't look like rockets but are simply jets. Still interesting but not true rocket racing.

      Jet racing, rocket racing... Why would I care about the difference? "Oh this is lame, these things aren't even carrying their own oxidizer!"

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:Finally. . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2

      I stand corrected. Thank you.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    5. Re:Finally. . . by Falrick · · Score: 4, Informative

      Armadillo Aerospace is providing the RRL with rockets for their planes, so yes, they are rockets. http://armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=358

      --
      something clever
    6. Re:Finally. . . by Berre · · Score: 2, Informative

      They are using rocket engines.
      The engines are supplied by Armadillo Aerospace.
      John Carmack posted news about the deal a while back: http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=358

    7. Re:Finally. . . by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because when they crash the ones carrying oxidizer are going to blow up MUCH more impressively.

  7. It was only a matter of time by EdIII · · Score: 4, Funny

    .... before Wile E Coyote (Super Genius) merged with NASCAR.

    I predict similar spectacular failures to occur, and I think I will enjoy it just as much as I used to do when I was five years old :)

  8. If it's NASCAR but 1000m off the ground... by SeekerDarksteel · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...does that include NASCAR's amazing ability to make something that should be fantastically awesome in theory and make it something incredibly boring in practice?

    --
    The laws of probability forbid it!
  9. Depends on how this works by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If it's NASCAR-style, then it'll appeal to some folks but it just won't have the kind of hold that other racing leagues get. Formula 1 gets serious money, and world-class rally racing is just that - world-wide, with an audience few sports can compete with. These two are descendants of the old European city-to-city races, where racers where gentlemen first. NASCAR is descended from bootlegger contests where winning was more important than how.

    Rocket racing really needs to take the same road as the old-style European racing leagues, perhaps even taking that kind of idealistic "it's not the winning that counts" attitude even further. Anyone can make a fast rocket, but does it have style? Is it fast out of brute-force or because the design is the coolest hack ever? Award points for place, yes, but also for style. Why encourage crap designs and crap driving?

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  10. Fuel? by StellarFury · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uhhh... does anyone care about the massive waste of rocket fuel that this is? I mean, that's the number one reason I hate NASCAR. It's just downright wasteful. We could be using that gas, instead of burning it to drive in a circle 500 times.

    This whole auto-racing thing is an artifact of a world where energy is plentiful and can be freely squandered.

    1. Re:Fuel? by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uhhh... does anyone care about the massive waste of rocket fuel that this is? I mean, that's the number one reason I hate NASCAR. It's just downright wasteful. We could be using that gas, instead of burning it to drive in a circle 500 times.

      This whole auto-racing thing is an artifact of a world where energy is plentiful and can be freely squandered.

      What do you figure the energy costs are to to run an indoor football/soccer/basketball stadium? Or an NHL hockey rink? remember, these all have to be maintained 24x7.

      Not to mention all the fuel used flying all those people back and forth across the globe just so they can kick a ball around or hit a puck with a stick?

      At least there is some technology feedback from auto racing back into 'real cars'.

      What would be the return on investment in the energy cost of hockey? baseball? football?

      How confident are you that NASCAR is actually the most energy wasteful sport going?

    2. Re:Fuel? by ghoti · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This whole auto-racing thing is an artifact of a world where energy is plentiful and can be freely squandered.

      Well said! I completely agree. It's time we move on to a world where it's cool to be efficient and conserve energy rather than blow it out the exhaust pipe as fast as possible.

      --
      EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
    3. Re:Fuel? by nate+nice · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Go away, hippie.

      --
      "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
    4. Re:Fuel? by rkanodia · · Score: 4, Funny

      I look forward to the day when the US starts importing yogis from India in order to compete in Olympic Energy Conservation.

      "Radhakrishnan's got his heart down to 4 beats per minute... 3... but OH! Gupta has tapped the core of his seventh chakra, and he's coming in with 2.. 1... ZERO BEATS PER MINUTE! This is unbelivable - this is the first time ANYONE has achieved complete body stasis in a competition setting! Now, remember folks, according to IOC rules, he has two minutes to re-awaken and establish the validity of the record, or else paramedics will be deployed to the field with a defibrillator..."

    5. Re:Fuel? by Deadstick · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This whole auto-racing thing is an artifact of a world where energy is plentiful and can be freely squandered.

      ...which differs from football or baseball precisely how? Have you any idea how much fuel it takes to get seventy-five thousand people from home to a stadium and back?

      rj

  11. If this is rocket racing why do I see a propellor? by whoever57 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Towards the end of the promo video, there is a short clip from inside one of the planes (one can see "Castrol" on the canard wing and the plane is flying above a river) -- in the front, one can clearly see a propellor. WTF?

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  12. Sounds from rocket racing. by sidragon.net · · Score: 2, Funny

    Whooosh!

  13. One word: smoke by ghoti · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The trailer looks cool, but there are tons of problems. This isn't going to look anywhere nearly as exciting in reality.

    First of all, they expect people to go there to watch the action on huge TVs? WTF? Why do that when you can stay at home and see it on TV? This is essentially a virtual sport, there's hardly anything to see in the real world (other than the take-off and the unavoidable fly-by).

    But the reason this isn't going to be anywhere near what the video shows is safety. These planes will have to keep a significant safety distance so they don't crash into each other. So no high-powered chases or planes flying through overlapping polygons. The other planes will only be tiny specks somewhere in the distance.

    Also, do you know how far the safety distance is behind a commercial plane? That's miles of airspace that can't be used due to turbulence in the plane's wake. Now imagine what the wake of a rocket plane is like!

    And finally, one word: smoke! These engines don't burn nearly as clean as the nice CGI suggests, ever seen a Shuttle launch? There will be tons of smoke, making it hard to see much, and increasing the safety distances even further.

    So apart from this being a hugely wasteful kind of sport (undoubtedly the most wasteful ever), it's also going to be boring as hell. Call me a nay-sayer, but I can't see this take off (no pun intended, haha).

    --
    EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
    1. Re:One word: smoke by Pontiac · · Score: 2, Informative

      And finally, one word: smoke! These engines don't burn nearly as clean as the nice CGI suggests, ever seen a Shuttle launch? There will be tons of smoke, making it hard to see much, and increasing the safety distances even further.

      Funny I don't see any smoke in the pics of the real thing running..
      http://www.xcor.com/products/engines/4A3_LOX_alcohol_rocket_engine.html
      The rocket planes run on LOX and Alcohol..

      Do you know what the shuttle main engiens burn? Hydrogen and Oxygen.. Hmm what does that make?? Oh yeah. Water! loads of water vapor.. The solid fuel booters are another thing alltogether and make a bit of smoke..

      --
      If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
    2. Re:One word: smoke by Deadstick · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The other planes will only be tiny specks somewhere in the distance.

      Three words: Reno Air Races. Hotrodded WW2 fighters and some jets, 500+ mph, 10-mile course with the front straight a few hundred yards from the bleachers.

      Also, do you know how far the safety distance is behind a commercial plane? That's miles of airspace that can't be used due to turbulence in the plane's wake. Now imagine what the wake of a rocket plane is like!

      You mean like this? http://www.airrace.org/2007ncargallery.php Wake turbulence depends almost entirely on weight, not airspeed.

      hugely wasteful kind of sport

      You're talking about a sport where a few dozen airplanes perform in front of fifty thousand people who got there in cars, right?

      rj

    3. Re:One word: smoke by Gregory+Arenius · · Score: 2, Informative

      Smoke won't be a problem for these rockets. The engines are no where near the size of the ones on the shuttle and they use different propellants. As a matter of fact there are plans to add some dyes to the fuel so that the rockets each have different color plumes to make them easier to distinguish from each other in the air.

      A couple of links for you:

      http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2008_04_14/seededPlume.jpg http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2008_05_12/greenPlume.jpg

      Also, the size of the turbulent wake left by jets is determined by the size of the plane and the relation isn't linear so airliners have bigger turbulent wakes than pretty much anything else out there. On top of that the reason other planes have to stay out of that wake is not just because its bumpy but also because it disrupts airflow into their engines which can be dangerous but isn't something rocket planes need to worry about as they carry their own oxidizer.

      I really hope that the Rocket Racing League does well enough to support itself. It will help pay for the development of better rocket engines which could have the effect of making space exploration cheaper.

      Cheers,
      Greg