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GPS Tracking Device Beats Radar Gun in Court
MojoKid writes "According to a release issued by Rocky Mountain Tracking, an 18-year old man, Shaun Malone, was able to
successfully contest a speeding ticket in court using the data from a GPS device installed in his car. This wasn't just any old make-a-left-turn-100-feet-ahead-onto-Maple-Street GPS; this was a vehicle-tracking GPS device — the kind used by trucking fleets — or in this case, overprotective parents. The device was installed in Malone's car by his parents, and the press release makes no mention if the teenager knew that the device was installed in his vehicle at the time."
Good thing: enabling people to install these devices voluntarily to defend themselves against false claims of speeding or reckless driving.
Bad thing: having the government mandate their installation, and at some later time mandating that the data be uploaded to a central processing facility.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
The article says that he was doing 62 MPH according to the radar gun. The GPS says 45. If the GPS was right, why was the gun wrong? Bad calibration? Operator error? Dyslexia?
How many other people were caught "speeding" by the same gun,and are they planning to notify any of them that they have reason to believe the gun was wrong?
is the so called professor revising his "expertise" so quickly and so radically. Now it would be interesting to know (or the court forcing him to say) on WHAT he based his first expertise and what new publicly available information made him change his mind, and why he did not make use of this information for the first written testimony. I get the feeling this guy is as much expert in GPS & radar gun, as my expertise in medicine forensic is (not much).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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>Now there's a neat project idea: create a GPS spoofing device.
That is a standard piece of GPS test equipment. A test GPS signal source and an antenna cone to place over the GPS device. Any time and location can be spoofed.
Evil people are out to get you.
Parents making a choice to protect their children is oppression??? How old are you? (Really, I want a real answer.) I am a parent. I'd have my kids LoJacked if it could be safely removed (with minimal scar) at the age of 18, were legal, and could be proved to be safe. No questions asked and no they don't get a choice. *gasp* Choices are for me to make when it comes to protecting my child, not for you nor for the government, and sure as hell not for a child who doesn't know the differences between right and wrong. (I was going to go to sleep but this one caught my eye.) In one thread you (not just you but a generic you) scream for holding the parent's accountable and in another when they take reasonable steps to monitor their children it is oppression? I kid you not, I love my children and want to protect them from all that I can while allowing them the freedom to make their own mistakes, I'd LoJack their asses in a minute. They are aged seven and nine, they carry cell phones that let me know a fairly decent triangulation of where they are at all times. Those phones can call only numbers that my ex-wife or myself authorize. They both use the internet more often than some of you. They both aren't ever allowed a single moment of privacy. *gasp* Nope. They use a computer only in a main living area of the home and only when there is a responsible adult there to watch them. My goal isn't to prevent them from being hurt, it is to let them get hurt because that is how they learn, but to be there when they fall and to be able to make things as better as a daddy can make it.
Being a responsible parent means those things. My children do not have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" (except my daughter). There is nothing I can't and won't search of theirs. There is no nook and cranny that I don't feel comfortable going into and looking at. I search for the parents of their friends. I go to their friend's houses alone so that I can meet the parents. They KNOW this and UNDERSTAND it because I've never talked to them like anything less than humans. (And yes, they both know why I would LoJack them if I could and BOTH agree that I should if I'm allowed to and haven't a problem with it.) "Daddy's job is to ensure your safety while allowing you the freedom to make mistakes and I always make it a point to balance the two as best as I can." Oppress? Are you high??? You just must not have children... When you learn love, that that you have for a child, you will understand. Maybe.
*gasp* I pick their video games out too! I limit them to certain movies. My daughter and my son each have about 10 cubic feet of space that is off limits. I bought, when they were way too young to understand even, a couple of fire proof safes. They have the only keys (as far as I know - I know I don't nor does their mother have the spare) for this case. This is where they can put anything that fits into that space and have it be as secret as they want it to be. Anything bigger should not be a secret when you're a child. My son leaves his wide open and stores his more expensive model cars in it. My daughter locks her safe because that is where her diary is and she doesn't want her brother to read it. Hell, I'm DIVORCED from this wife and we still have one of the most open families on the planet I suspect. I treat them like humans and I talk to them like that.
Finally I am not writing this for me. I wrote this for YOU. I want to get some sleep sometime soon as I have things to do in the morning. If you view a parent protecting their child in a reasonable (and hopefully open) manner as oppression than you fail. Your mother turning the handles in on the stove so that you're toddler self didn't grab them and get scalded and die is not oppression, it is love. Now go call your mother and tell her how much you love her, appreciate her, and then respond here if you'd like.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
My kid read this and is happy he's *my* kid and not yours. You probably score pretty good on the 'protect my kids' scale, but you don't respect them.
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Absolutely!!! ....
There is an old saying that my dad used, and I use it still today. "Give your kids enough rope to run with but not enough to hang themselves."
You have to give your kids the ability to do what they want, so they can learn for themselves, but at the same time you need to protect them from MAJOR issues until they are old enough to think for themselves. If you hover too closely, yes, there will be resentment, but if you don't hover at all, you have no way of knowing when to intervene.
"Living in their back pocket" would be doing things such as being a chaperone, calling them every 15 minutes, following them around, etc... Lojack or GPS, etc, is not being too close. It allows a parent to give their children extra freedom while still giving the parent insight to verify if the child is doing what they say they are and wether they are capable of handling additional trust or not.
Parents who let their children run around blindly are either fools, or their Give-a-shit-o-meter is broken. The way many children of this generation, and my own (I'm 35 in case you're wondering), have turned out, I'm a firm believer that the government should require licensing to procreate. No license, means no government assistance should you be stupid enough to have a 5 kids on a $8/hr job.
Wow... is it just me or did I end up on a soapbox?
I hate it when that happens.
You know, my parents ran our family as a dictatorship. We never voted on anything and we never got to choose what the house rules were. That doesn't keep us from participating in elections and getting politically active.
Kids aren't full grown adults and they shouldn't be treated as such. If you raise them properly they'll be able to understand the differences between home and government and act accordingly. Also, sometimes lojacking the car is going too far, sometimes it's not. Things like that should be taken on a case by case basis.
When I was six or so, when we'd go out in crowded places - like the zoo, train stations, etc - my parents would hook one of those extending leashes you get for pets on to a belt or overall buckle. I could wander 50 feet from them, I wouldn't get lost, and they wouldn't worry where I was.
Now, other people without children always called it cruelty, but other parents would come up and ask where to get the leashes.
However, I think the GP is going too far here. If you don't give your child any freedoms (to fail, do something stupid) they'll never learn anything about life, responsibility, and the consequences of failure. Unleashing a child that hasn't learned anything on the world does a disservice to the child and makes for one more idiotic kid-with-adult-powers the system has to coddle and watch out for.
People with no concept of personal responsibility are at fault for some of the worst tragedies the planet has seen.
Never underestimate the stupidity inherent in all human beings.
Funny, I figured out the ex-military bit before you mentioned it.
House != barracks... if you want your kids to succeed in life and not just house them until they're 18 or something like that you'll have to allow them a lot of independence, otherwise they'll always be looking to you for their everyday decisions and one day you won't be there.
It's like bicycling with training wheels, at some point they have to come off, best if your parent is still around so they can catch you when you fall (or console you if they didn't catch you) :)
Good luck there, it sounds like you are in a pretty difficult situation and you're doing the best you can.
Jacques.
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They are happy and safe. I treat them with ten times more respect than I think people here understand and give them way more freedom than many and I'd allow them more but they must learn where the limits are first. They have a few hundred acres of private woods to play in when they are here with me. I don't hover or stand over their shoulder normally. I don't give them complete freedom (the people who write in below haven't any kids or, if they do, they'll be sorry) but I give them as much as I can do safely. They know that their phones track them, they knew that before they were given the choice to take them, and they take them because they watch the news too and see what goes on and they want me to be able to find them. (In my area they're more likely to get lost than to be taken.) I *gasp* limit my children's exposure to the internet at the ages of seven and nine! (Horrifically oppressive aren't I?) I do insist on the PC in the room and I, or my girlfriend, or my ex-wife back at their house, we really WANT to know the URL they are at. There is a free game site that my daughter, the eldest, goes to. Some of the games have things like undressing boys in them. Yes, yes I do restrict that content. She doesn't WANT to play that game but she has clicked on an inviting title and that's the resulting game and she was just as bothered as I. So, they are happy, they are safe, they are loved, and they are loving in return. As they change so won't my policies as will their methods to circumvent them. She's just nine and she's gone on dates where we didn't even go in the movie theater with her. It is not them that I don't trust, it is other people whom I know, first hand, will take a thread (such as this) and respond without actually understanding and that can cause harm that she doesn't need as well as far worse things. I'm no expert but I like the way the results have been so far. I get letters of praise from their school and the church that their mother has started to bring them to. *sighs* But, that's respect for you... I give them the respect to let them make choices and they asked/opted to go and so she started bringing them.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
I've only read like a third of this drivel.... and drivel it is. My parents never had the means of protecting me like that. They had to trust that I would call if I stayed out longer (and I was basically allowed to stay out whenever I wanted and however long I wanted, because I was trusted to know myself when it was a good time to return home).
You know, I think I'm still alive and doing quite well for myself. Looking at the latest generation, though, who is always reachable and traceable by the likes of you, I'm not quite as sure about that.
One thing was funny, though... you let them make their own mistakes? What mistakes would that be? Choosing ketchup instead of sauce cafe de paris for their meat? Or perhaps wearing a brown belt with black shoes? The way you sound it's certainly not going to be stumbling over unsuitable websites or getting drunk at bloody fifteen. Not that I ever did that, because I somehow never saw the need to... well, contrary to some kids who weren't allowed to swear at home, and had to be home right after school.
Oh and contrary to them, I didn't have to hide my smoking habit. Because I didn't smoke. Even though my parents made it perfectly clear that they would not forbid it since they were such bad examples themselves.
I had a lot of freedoms as a kid and I am of the firm belief that I didn't fuck up even close as often as the average kid does. I've tried smoking exactly two times in my lifes (more to actually know what the hell I was talking about) and it was limited to just inhaling once per try. I tried space cookies, as smoking was out of the question, and found the experience to be less than stellar (although that was at age 20 something). I've had a bout of kleptomania around age 13 which I got under control on my freaking own without my parents having to watch my ass every damn second.
So would you allow your kids to make the mistake of shoplifting not once but several times? Would you let them learn to deal with it on their own? Sorry if I don't think so.
From my experience, parents like you produce social garbage that usually gets the fuck outa there as soon as they turn legal. I'm not saying your kids will do that... sometimes they become completely dependant and shy personalities, who can't function in this world without someone holding their hand. And I'm still not saying your kids will turn out like this, but I say chances are high. And if I get modded Troll for this, I'll actually be proud of it, because, frankly, people like you give me a very bad feeling in my stomach area.
Seeking freedom and wanting to be your own boss is like a basic instinct for a lot of humans. Trying to completely repress that, because the person in question doesn't have enough experience, often leads to rebellion and doing stupid shit out of principle. And besides, let me ask you a philosophical question: If my grandfather told you that you can't go out after 5pm because he thinks you're too young to make your own decisions, what would you say? You're an adult, right? But what the hell does that mean? It means you turned 18 already. Big freaking deal. Most of us manage to do that.
The ability to weight the pros and cons of your action is what makes you mature and that ability doesn't turn on at 18. It has to be learned, and from my experience, kids in the kind of environment you create often haven't learned that when they're given all the responsibilities and freedoms of an adult.
In my personal opinion, kids should be confronted with responsibility as soon as they're able to handle it. It is our duty as parents to decide when that day comes. Some of us, though, don't want to get to know their kids that well or just don't have the time, so they just trace their every move to make sure they don't do anything wrong... and then they go and think that this way their kids are going to turn out to be well rounded and mature adults.
The problem is that kids will find ways around stuff that their parents restrict, no matter how clever you are with tech they'll be more clever than that. Kids today (and probably at any point in the past) can and will run rings around their parents, using their peers and technology to help them with that. Tracking their whereabouts is not going to help you one bit with this. (after all, all it tells you is where their cellphones were...)
That sets you up for a bit of a problem in the long term because they'll already have a habit of going around your back by the time it will really matter.
Better to get your kids to trust you, and for you to trust them. That way if something comes up that they don't know how to deal with they'll come to you first, instead of going to the 'peer' group (I use the world loosely) and hiding it from you because you're going to restrict it.
Forbidden fruits and all that...
The problems won't really start until they're in their teens, for your daughter somewhere around age 13, for your boy 14 or 15. That's when it matters that there is a huge bond of trust between you and them, basically you need to be able to let them go at that age and *know* they'll make the right decisions, even if you're not there.
It'll make you sleep better too :)
Right now you can control your kids but that time will be over sooner than you can possibly imagine, but the kind of relationship that you make with them now will persist long past that point and trust once gained is hard to lose.
Just for a small example from my own life:
I wasn't allowed to have a moped, but I was crazy about engines and anything associated with it, so a friend of mine who lived about 5 miles from my house housed my moped in his garage box... nobody, and I mean really nobody, including my control freak of a steph father, had any idea of what was going on. So much for all that control... (and believe me, you look like an angel in comparision, your intentions are clearly good).
So, when I had a kid myself I decided that control was not going to cut it, assuming that history would repeat itself. Give your kid repect and trust, get the same in return. Control your kids and sooner or later they'll slip the leash and you won't be the wiser until it's much too late.
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What sort of bad choices would your kid (or mine, this is hypothetical) make that would require you to have access to his or her exact location at all times?
If the child always has access to a "panic button" that lets a white knight come fix the problems, he or she won't learn how to cope and deal with problems without outside aid. I'd rather have a child stuck in a rough spot for a while and come out of it himself than have to rescue him every time he got into a situation he couldn't see an obvious solution to. I remember the first time I got in a really lousy position - drove a car off the road - but I managed to get the car fixed and back on the road with no lasting damage in an hour or so. I was so proud that evening that I had managed to rescue myself, and that's a feeling that every kid should have. A knowledge that they can take care of themselves if need be.
About your power tool example. Were it my child, I'd explain what the tool was for, how to use it properly, make sure the kid understood the consequences of misuse, and watch them the first few times they used it to make sure they followed the appropriate safety practices. After that, I'd trust the child to know how to use the tool and why the safety gear was important.
At some point you have to let the child figure out why the rules and safety regulations are there by himself. Hopefully the the child can learn from the explanation of the consequences, but I certainly couldn't - I had to figure out why something said "don't touch" by touching it. My mother is an avid believer in the "Burned hand teaches best" method of parenting.
As such, I've lost some of the nerves in my left hand from a thermite burn. However, you'd better bet I'm careful with pretty much anything explosive now. And, in the grand scheme of things, the small bit of nerve damage was worth a deeply ingrained caution for all things explosive and hot.
Never underestimate the stupidity inherent in all human beings.
When I was five or so, I too would go to crowded places with my parents. I too would wander, but I wasn't kept on a lead.
One day, finally fed up of having to remain ever vigilant of my wandering, my parents decided on a simple course of action. They waited for me to begin wandering, then hid around a corner, just out of view of me, but at a point where they could still keep an eye on me (presumably using one of those convex security mirrors, I never did ask). They also let staff members where we were what they were about to do...
After five minutes of happy wandering I noticed I hadn't been yanked back from whatever I was busy with. After 7 minutes I begain to look visibly worried. At 8, realising I was very much alone I began to cry. By 10 minutes I was in full frantic bawling-my-eyes-out and screaming for attention mode. After 15 minutes they stepped out from around the corner to collect me and give me a bloody good bollocking for wandering off.
Apparently I never wandered again.
My parents: wise beyond their years, and utter, utter bastards :)
"I'll take advice when/if I see the source actually ... making sense."
Translation:
"I'll take advice when/if I see the source actually ... confirming my biases."
Sure takes the fun out of being a teen tho....thank God my folks didn't have this when I was young. I had a blast....but, didn't get into trouble, made my grades....worked etc. But, I ran around...partied...didn't get DWI's (hell, I got pulled over once half tanked, but, was close to home and the cop let me drive home warning I'd go to jail if he saw me out again that night, man, you'd not see THAT happen again these days).
There are only 'consequences' of actions if you do something wrong or get caught. Kids have to make mistakes and take chances in order to grow. If you parents are so over protective, how are you going to learn....and being young is the time to be a little reckless and have fun. You get to be 'resposible' and adult acting soon enough...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I got pulled over once half tanked, but, was close to home and the cop let me drive home warning I'd go to jail if he saw me out again that night, man, you'd not see THAT happen again these days
And well you shouldn't! You endangered everybody you encountered on the road that night. In my opinion, the cop was irresponsible to let you go. If getting pulled over for DWI vas a virtual guarantee of a visit to jail (assuming that you actually fail the test, of course) then maybe fewer people would be so casual about operating complicated and deadly machinery while under the influence of mind-numbing drugs.
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
You claim that many people can drive just fine at .08 BAC, do you have any cites or evidence for this? I ask simply because I don't believe it. I know that there are many people who think that they can drive just fine at .08 BAC (or some other level), but this is mainly because moderate amounts of alcohol tend to mess with your perception in such a way that you feel like you're doing the same as before, when in fact your reactions and judgement are significantly degraded. People who believe that they experience no impairment after "just a couple of beers" are, from what I've seen, just plain wrong about it.
Your rant against the police is very strange to me. You're taking charge of a large, dangerous machine, one which is dangerous not only to yourself but to anyone who comes near you. You owe it to yourself and to society to be in good mental condition when you do this.
I don't drink and drive, period. If I'm driving somewhere within the next couple of hours I do not drink. If I want to have a beer with dinner, I make sure that I can stay in the area for a while afterwards, or I go someplace within walking distance, or I have somebody else drive. I tried driving with "just one beer" a couple of times. I felt fine, with no effect on my driving. Thinking about it afterwards I realized that my reactions were significantly slower, and my judgement was much worse. So I never did it again.
I consider the legal limit to be quite a bit higher than it should be. I'm a pilot, and the FAA has very strict limits on alcohol. The BAC limit is .04, which is basically any detectable alcohol in the blood. In addition to this limit, they have a strict limit (hard to enforce, of course) that you may not drink any alcohol in the eight hours before you take the controls of an aircraft. This is vastly more strict than any automobile laws I'm aware of. But guess what, I've never heard any pilot complain about the rules.
The trick to avoiding police action is quite simple: if you drink, do not drive. They won't be able to convict you of anything if there isn't any alcohol in your blood. And you shouldn't have any alcohol in your blood while operating a car, no matter what the law allows.
I agree that the law should be based on a much broader definition of impairment, rather than being so specific to alcohol. But I think the standard of impairment should be much lower than it is as well.
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.