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GPS Tracking Device Beats Radar Gun in Court
MojoKid writes "According to a release issued by Rocky Mountain Tracking, an 18-year old man, Shaun Malone, was able to
successfully contest a speeding ticket in court using the data from a GPS device installed in his car. This wasn't just any old make-a-left-turn-100-feet-ahead-onto-Maple-Street GPS; this was a vehicle-tracking GPS device — the kind used by trucking fleets — or in this case, overprotective parents. The device was installed in Malone's car by his parents, and the press release makes no mention if the teenager knew that the device was installed in his vehicle at the time."
I believe insurance companies give discounts to drivers (especially young ones) for having gps tracking installed in their cars.
It's the same thing as a desktop, web client, or indeed the browser itself - the client can never be trusted.
Are the cops or the courts going to audit every GPS device or line of device code to ensure that 20 mph is *not* being deducted off what is written to the log above a certain speed?
Come to think of it, that's a great idea for OS or FSF - create code for popular GPS devices, and then produce the code for audit when you go to court contesting a ticket, while asking that the cops produce the code off of their device!!
[17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
Good thing: enabling people to install these devices voluntarily to defend themselves against false claims of speeding or reckless driving.
Bad thing: having the government mandate their installation, and at some later time mandating that the data be uploaded to a central processing facility.
My thoughts...
Good Thing: Everyone thinks the output of electronic devices is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Bad Thing: Everyone thinks the output of electronic devices is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
It's likely that you already have a monitoring device installed in your vehicle. Cars made in the last decade have increasingly sophisticated recording capabilities that record detailed information about the car's state at the time of an airbag deployment or a seatbelt pretensioning event. Some of the data stored includes the speed, throttle position, brake position, seat belt usage, etc., and it stores a buffer of information for 20 seconds before the crash event and five seconds after. The older Restraint Control Modules simply recorded safety equipment usage, but not operational information. The new recorders are located in the Powertrain Control Module and store a lot more about your vehicle. This information is usually downloaded by an officer on the accident scene, and is admissible as evidence in court.
Of course it's not as bad as your scenario. It's not retrieved unless there's an accident. But it can be retrieved without your approval, so if you had your foot on the gas and had no signs of brakes being applied, it'd sure come out in a courtroom if you lied about your driving.
John
Likely operator error.
For all their bluster guns are only accurate under very specific circumstances. The dopler effect and software used in the gun assumes certain things when making it's speed "measurement", the first is that the measurement is head on, a cop shooting your speed from greater than a 5 degree angle can alter the measurement dramatically and greater than 15 degrees and you might as well just disregard whatever it reads as the error will exceed 35mph. Second most guns are calibrated for approaching traffic, if shot from behind, they are extremely inaccurate. Third, unless the gun is a laser based measurement system the gun picks out the fastest object in it's line of site and a typical gun has a 15 to 25 degree measurement window such that if there is a car anywhere near you going faster than you then that car is the one that will get measured. Cops are typically trained such that they know these limitations and abide by the requirements, that doesn't mean all do and it doesn't mean cops don't lie or that your age,sex,ethnicity,clothing and what you are driving plays a greater role in whether you get tickets than just about any other factor including how fast you drive. An 18 year old in gang attire driving a sporty car can drive by a cop going 15mph slower than a station wagon with a 45 year old guy in a suit and the 18 year old will get the ticket and the cop won't look twice at the other guy. Such is life.
In Quebec vehicle tracking GPS systems have been mandatory for years. It's mostly because the government made a deal with the car insurance people so all cars had to have the device installed as an 'anti theft' measure. It's a good example of how little it takes to force those things on people.
I have nothing compelling to say
Self reporting speed is decades old. Pre-GPS commerical trucks in Japan showed the speed of te vehicle by a series of lights on the top of the truck cab. A cop could pull them over for speeding just by looking at the lights.
Tachographs in Europe record speed in commercial vehicles as well.
Tricky tricky terms. I respect them but I think we may have differences in opinion as to how one shows that. First, I love them. Second, I protect them. Third I respect them. They go in that order for me but, well, I'm a Marine or at least "was" but, really, I'll always be a Marine. The first two they can't do for themselves. The latter one they don't have to earn BUT they should. If, at any point in time, one of my children came to me and said that they felt they needed (to use my above post as the example) a larger box to hold their secrets in I would ask why they felt that way and, if it was a good answer, I'd get them a larger box. In all actuality I would probably get them the larger box regardless, for simply having the forward thinking to ask, because my views aren't that important in this matter. To me it doesn't matter the size of the box. What matters to me is that they know they have a place that no one else can go.
They ask to live with me and I could take custody right this minute. I am probably the most strict parent on the planet that isn't abusive (I don't need to hit them or even belittle them for emotional abuse) but I expect and am given an exacting set of behavioral standards when they are with me. I don't disallow play, joking, or even dangerous play. If they want to make noise then they have the entirety of the time when no one is sleeping to do so and they encouraged to do so. If they want to play a practical joke or even give a bit of hassle to each other or to myself and my girlfriend they're allowed and encouraged to so as long as it doesn't become a personal attack. If they want to go out four wheeling or climb a tree then not only are they encouraged (wear a helmet and stay in the back three fields) to do so then I'll even go out there and show them how to wear a set of chaps and use climbing studs on the straight trees.
Heck, if they want to drive my truck or my wife's car and we're either here on the property or on the driveway leading into the last bit of driveway they can certainly do so. They can not only do so but they are going to go only a few miles an hour so they are even going to get to make a choice of freedom and not wear a seatbelt while their sit on our respective laps and drive.
Depending on the store and the motive while there they get a single dollar, a ten dollar bill, a twenty, or a hundred dollar bill. They do their own math and they get only what that provided. (Lately it has been a five dollar bill instead of the single or a ten.) Purchases ARE subject to monitoring but that's what they get, that is all they get, and it isn't an allowance. They aren't "allowed" anything. They WORK, yes WORK, for their food, school, special things, etc... They have helped to carry cords of wood since they were barely able to carry a small 2" stick. They do that because it is their job. It is your job, as a family member, to assist in those things that are done for the benefit of the family. There are no questions, it is what your job is and we all do it. To this day I still go over and even cut my ex-wife's wood down to ensure that it is dried in time to be burned cleanly and safely. With me standing over them (and they wrapped in Kevlar chaps with hearing protection and gloves) they too have actually sat there and helped limb a tree. Respect? Yes. I treat them like humans instead of the nanny state crap you see being done by people who seem to think children are a status symbol.
Finally, I hope, I'm not even DEFENDING my position. I haven't done this before so I don't KNOW if I'm doing it better than anyone else or if I'm failing horrifically. But they are happy. That is most important. After that? They are safe, they are more responsible than any other kids I know, they speak in clear English though they can't spell worth a damn, they are loving, they are kind, they are giving to those in need, and they articulate their needs and differences clearly.
| I wasn't done. I'll make this short, I hope. My mother recently died. (The first of this mon
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
one mph over the limit??? That's illegal in some states (CT,NH). Laws in those states clearly say up to 5 mph above speed limit is allowed.
And judges have been known to throw the book at cops who waste their time for one mph.
Seriously, dispute the charge and force a jury to hear it on a Monday morning -:)
The cop would get such a dressing down, you will be smiling.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
At their age and, unfortunately not preventable without undo hovering, I'd say "getting in the car with a stranger because he offered you some candy" would be my primary concern and, really, other than that it is getting lost here. I am FAR more worried about the latter than I am the former. And, absolutely I'd let my children use some powered tools. BUT they must learn the safety first, as you said.
Some additional clarification, if you want? My daughter finally learned to climb. She climbed on the couch (I was still with my wife of the time) and stood up on it. She and her uncle who were there wanted to get her down. I told them that I'd rather that not happen and asked that they watch. She fell straight down at an angle that you'd think would break a child's neck (but onto a heavily carpetted floor) and got back up crying. They wanted to run to her and comfort her and, again, I said that I really wished they wouldn't and actually stood between them in the hallway so that they'd have had to push past me. She got back on the couch and sat her ass down and never ever jumped on the couch again. I think I am cautious, not over protective. I don't really STOP them from doing much of anything - I even encourage them to try most anything their hearts desire. I just want to be able to pick up the pieces like I think a good parent should.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Hollywood fracks up a lot of stereotypes.
If you follow them Presidents are brave and willing to fight (Air Force One & Independence Day). Women in Miami are always hot (Every show with a Miami scene, except Golden Girls).
The rely big question in this story though is "will any consequences flow to the cop?"
You see Police do a lot of corrupt things for a lot of different reasons. One of the worst is to clock a car traveling well above the speed limit and then assign that recorded speed to the next car to come along.
This happened to me when I was pulled over for speeding without my radar detector going off. The cops claimed I was doing 71 Kph in a 50Kph zone. They were wrong on both counts.
1. The speed limit on that road is 80Kph
2. I was actually going just shy of 180Kph.
I pointed out item #1. without mentioning item #2 and avoided a ticket. The real trouble is that even if I had taken the ticket and challenged it in court I would be acquitted of the speeding charge but the cop would still be allowed to keep defrauding motorists in this way.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
So the important part of your post and of the story is this:
1.The radar units used by the police are completely defective and unreliable.
or
2.The police who use them are lying.
I'd be really interested in knowing which it is.
If they are unreliable they need to be done away with as a speed measuring method.
If the police are actually lying that is even more disturbing, because no government employee is hired and charged with the responsibility to lie, cheat and steal in their job description, including the police officers.
They are only supposed to cite us for things we actually did. They are not supposed to fake crimes, though I suspect some of that does go on, I can't imagine why anyone would lie, cheat or steal for an employer. I sure wouldn't.
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